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+---- Thread: Shadower/CB - upgraded skills (/showthread.php?tid=7617)
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Dusk - 2009-01-23
Yeah yeah, but it makes more sense to make SB, BS and Assassinate stronger by a little each than making SB do more damage than BS all of a sudden.
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Devil - 2009-01-23
Dusk Wrote:Shadowers need to be balanced with Buccaneers, that's all I'm asking.Well Night Lords are also using a recolored lucky 7 (1st job skill) when they're lvl 200...
I like the SB+BS.
Devil, if SB did 180%x6 Shadowers would be spamming SB to fight bosses in 4th job.
I dont see anything wrong with Shadowers doing the same for bosses...
Although a combined upgrade of Sblow + Bstep to raise overall DPM would be better though... 6x 160 & 2x 700% maybe?
Edit: Hmmm applied that upgrade to my DPM Excell sheet, and got us on par with Hero's and DK's...
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Skylit - 2009-01-23
Devil Wrote:Well Night Lords are also using a recolored lucky 7 (1st job skill) when they're lvl 200...
I dont see anything wrong with Shadowers doing the same for bosses...
Although a combined upgrade of Sblow + Bstep to raise overall DPM would be better though... 6x 160 & 2x 700% maybe?
Edit: Hmmm applied that upgrade to my DPM Excell sheet, and got us on par with Hero's and DK's...
they just need to change the multi formula from 3.6 to 4.0 and everything would be fine lol..
but then again, I dont like being a bandwagoned class. >_> so its all fine w/ me
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Shippo the Fox - 2009-01-24
DrRusty Wrote:Devil's right. Look at a DK the same level, hitting 90k crushers while zerked. Hitting 60k SBs would only make us even. Maybe like 150% or something, but it would still have to be pretty high.
Are you even realizing this logic?
They're Warriors. WARRIORS. The class in every RPG that is always suppose to hit high physical damage. Not only that, but they're in BERSERK. You know, where they have to be within certain conditions to hit higher damage.
*This also applies to Buccaneers.*
We are THIEVES. The class that focuses on avoid and quick hits. Not "OMFG HAX DAMAGE". Only reason Night Lords are allowed to get that are because they suck defensively and are 1 on 1 specialists. Our (Shadowers) entire skill list is built for survival.
We're the fastest trainers, and also have the best survival in the game. I'm content with that.
@Takebacker. I rather spend 20 points increasing the damage of a main training skill that I'm going to be using all the time, than spend 20 points increasing Smokescreen by 1 second every point.
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Russt - 2009-01-24
Takebacker Wrote:People aren't going to jump on using 20 points on that if the effect is so small. The increase should make SB hit at least 600/650%.600% = 6x100% o-o
What they should really do is make Venom work on bosses. That would boost Shadowers' bossing DPS by a good 30k or so. Then again, it'd also jack NLs up by the same amount.
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - MasPan - 2009-01-24
DrRusty Wrote:Devil's right. Look at a DK the same level, hitting 90k crushers while zerked. Hitting 60k SBs would only make us even. Maybe like 150% or something, but it would still have to be pretty high.
Should I even mention heros doing almost 40k per hit with brandish and a 1H sword -_-
what class doesn't sit and spam 1 skill during a boss fight.
Quote is neglecting PA DrKs...*goes on a mission to remind people that yes, we DO exist, much unlike the tooth fairy*
At best for 1v1 damage, we do around 40-50k with sacri, and nearly kill ourselves in the process.
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - iFrancisco - 2009-01-24
Devil Wrote:Just like all other classes do? Why would that be wrong? And I'm sure you're not hitting 6x 10 with 180%, since you would need a damage range of 5.600~10.000 for that... And without apples thats not possible...
Someone said they -did- lower it to Bstep > [SBlow/Assaulter/BoT] > Bstep speed, and if that's true, that would be enough for me, especially with the increased Assaulter range.
My max range with a war pot and mw20 is 7.5k ish, so 180% of that is pretty easily over 10k (of course my min range won't make it over 10k, but that's not what I had meant). Yea, from what I can tell BS > SB > BS fits in nicely now, but I still want to see the exact amount; it was 1.95 seconds before, now it is *blank* seconds (I hope that blank is close to 1 second or so). I wonder how much it is going to change training now, as taunting has just lost a huge amount of value at newties (still prefect at guardians).
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Dusk - 2009-01-24
Devil Wrote:Well Night Lords are also using a recolored lucky 7 (1st job skill) when they're lvl 200...
I dont see anything wrong with Shadowers doing the same for bosses...
Although a combined upgrade of Sblow + Bstep to raise overall DPM would be better though... 6x 160 & 2x 700% maybe?
Edit: Hmmm applied that upgrade to my DPM Excell sheet, and got us on par with Hero's and DK's...
Why do you insist on taking combo attack classes, who use some of the most interesting attack patterns in the game, and reducing them down to spamfest classes? Buccaneers have a huge variety of attack skills that can be chained into each other, and all you want to do is up spam Demolition for an entire boss fight. Shadowers have three possible attack skills to use on bosses and all you want to do is raise the damage on the most spammable one.
Methinks you're playing the wrong classes if you want a high DPS spammer.
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - DrRusty - 2009-01-24
Shippo the Fox Wrote:Are you even realizing this logic?
They're Warriors. WARRIORS. The class in every RPG that is always suppose to hit high physical damage. Not only that, but they're in BERSERK. You know, where they have to be within certain conditions to hit higher damage.
*This also applies to Buccaneers.*
We are THIEVES. The class that focuses on avoid and quick hits. Not "OMFG HAX DAMAGE". Only reason Night Lords are allowed to get that are because they suck defensively and are 1 on 1 specialists. Our (Shadowers) entire skill list is built for survival.
We're the fastest trainers, and also have the best survival in the game. I'm content with that.
@Takebacker. I rather spend 20 points increasing the damage of a main training skill that I'm going to be using all the time, than spend 20 points increasing Smokescreen by 1 second every point.
I did say 180% was to much
. I know that shadowers are the best melee trainers, but not by much. We're not 50% faster at training than other classes, but other classes are 50% better at DPS. Maybe with the new BStep it will end up being like that. I know that faster bstep is gonna completely rape gaurdians like no 2morrow.Don't get me wrong, I love my shadower. I just wish I had a damage boost for all my skills. That's why I was suggesting a passive skill that increases all of our skill's strength. Ya 180% is a bit overkill, 2% per SP to add 40% damage per skill would be pretty good.
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - PokéJames - 2009-01-24
Wow, that's awesome! What I'm curious about, though, is the new formula for Pickpocket. Could it possibly make it worth maxing PP?
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - iFrancisco - 2009-01-24
PokéJames Wrote:Wow, that's awesome! What I'm curious about, though, is the new formula for Pickpocket. Could it possibly make it worth maxing PP?
I believe the money drop is now based on damage (yay for damage whore CBs?). Then again, what CBs don't max PP eventually...
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Devil - 2009-01-24
Shippo the Fox Wrote:Are you even realizing this logic?In classic RPG terms:
They're Warriors. WARRIORS. The class in every RPG that is always suppose to hit high physical damage. Not only that, but they're in BERSERK. You know, where they have to be within certain conditions to hit higher damage.
*This also applies to Buccaneers.*
We are THIEVES. The class that focuses on avoid and quick hits. Not "OMFG HAX DAMAGE". Only reason Night Lords are allowed to get that are because they suck defensively and are 1 on 1 specialists. Our (Shadowers) entire skill list is built for survival.
- Warriors -> High HP, High DEF, Low Avoid, Slow, Slow Attacks, High DMG Numbers, High DPM
- Thieves -> Medium HP, Medium DEF, High Avoid, Fast, Fast Attacks, Very Low DMG Numbers, Highest DOT (Damage Over Time).
These things apply to: Hero's, DK's, Paladins, NL's, but just not to Shadowers.
Shadowers just got the wrong attacks in 4th job for the classic RPG role. We got slow attacks instead of ultra fast ones (Sblow/BoT). Now I know Shadowers have 2x the HP of a NL (MG), but that doesn't mean they should get 45% of the DPM of one, 70% would have done OK though...
But again, with this huge boost, we're getting there, step by step...
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - PokéJames - 2009-01-24
iFrancisco Wrote:I believe the money drop is now based on damage (yay for damage whore CBs?). Then again, what CBs don't max PP eventually...http://www.sleepywood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1429744
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - iFrancisco - 2009-01-24
PokéJames Wrote:http://www.sleepywood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1429744
You also have shield mastery. There is no reason why a CB would not max PP eventually, especially when maxing chakra is near useless as all the higher levels of it fill you to max HP regardless.
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Deviant - 2009-01-24
iFrancisco Wrote:You also have shield mastery. There is no reason why a CB would not max PP eventually, especially when maxing chakra is near useless as all the higher levels of it fill you to max HP regardless.
Actually when Mu Lung boss rush PQ comes out, i'd say Chakra will be much more useful than shield mastery, as that will allow shadowers to solo it and heal themselves.
Maxing it wouldnt be all that bad if you have nothing left.
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Skylit - 2009-01-24
Deviant Wrote:Actually when Mu Lung boss rush PQ comes out, i'd say Chakra will be much more useful than shield mastery, as that will allow shadowers to solo it and heal themselves.
More useful than shield mastery IMO.
wouldn't mattter , lv 20~ chakra restores max hp anywho if im not mistaken (lol I maxed shield masterys on shad)
but I still rather get pickpocket seeing they changed the formula lulz
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Deviant - 2009-01-24
Skylit Wrote:wouldn't mattter , lv 20~ chakra restores max hp anywho if im not mistaken (lol I maxed shield masterys on shad)
but I still rather get pickpocket seeing they changed the formula lulz
I maxed Pickpocket too, of course. I dont know why anyone would max either Shield mastery or Chakra, really, In fact I wish I had gone back and put points in keen eyes so I could do range in GPQ, but I didnt think of it at the time.
Ah well, maybe the extended assaulter will be able to do range in GPQ XD
And I second what you said earlier about not liking to paly bandwagoned classes >.>
Of course ill probably stick to shadower through thick and thin, but I wont like if theres as many shadowers running around as NLs
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Cactuar - 2009-01-24
I didn't max Chakra, and I regret it still. PP was/currently is completely useless after 4th. Chakra can still be used after 4th. I'll have to see how the new PP works before I say that it's more useful than Chakra.
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Dusk - 2009-01-24
That brings up an issue I've been wondering about. What would be a good PP formula? Should it be high enough so that ME can still be used in training in 4th job? It can't be high enough so that spamming SB at HHG1 would actually be a good way to farm mesos, though, so no thousands, or at least not on low monster levels.
I think something like
max: (10*monster level + 0.1*damage) * (20 + 4 *Pickpocket)/100
min: (monster level + 0.1*damage) * (20 + 4*Pickpocket)/100
would work nicely. Looks like a typical MS formula
*Pickpocket is the number of points in the skill
This would drop 410~1400 mesos per hit on a 3k SB on a Skelegon, and 2110~3100 per hit on a 20k Boomerang Step on a Skelegon.
It would drop 315~450 mesos per 3k SB on Green Mushrooms and 2015~2150 with a 20k Boomerang Step. Hm, may need to nerf the damage section a little more.
Shadower/CB - upgraded skills - Skylit - 2009-01-24
Dusk Wrote:That brings up an issue I've been wondering about. What would be a good PP formula? Should it be high enough so that ME can still be used in training in 4th job? It can't be high enough so that spamming SB at HHG1 would actually be a good way to farm mesos, though, so no thousands, or at least not on low monster levels.
I think something like
max: (10*monster level + 0.1*damage) * (20 + 4 *Pickpocket)/100
min: (monster level + 0.1*damage) * (20 + 4*Pickpocket)/100
would work nicely. Looks like a typical MS formula
*Pickpocket is the number of points in the skill
This would drop 410~1400 mesos per hit on a 3k SB on a Skelegon, and 2110~3100 per hit on a 20k Boomerang Step on a Skelegon.
It would drop 315~450 mesos per 3k SB on Green Mushrooms and 2015~2150 with a 20k Boomerang Step. Hm, may need to nerf the damage section a little more.
what about horntail? lol pp might be worth it if you are correct.