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+--- Thread: What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? (/showthread.php?tid=7441)
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Takebacker - 2009-01-17
Russt Wrote:I started a more detailed version of the below a bit ago, but never finished, so I guess I'll post a semi-rough outline here.
Big Bang: Replace with a passive improvement of Teleport from 150 range to 210 (+2 per level) and give it 3-4 frames of invincibility after appearing in the new location.
Mana Reflection: I do like the idea of making this a party skill.
Fire Demon: Increase basic attack to about 180, and change its damage/time to 40% of the original hit rather than %HP-based.
Ice Demon: Increase basic attack to about 160, and change its damage/time to 40% of the original hit rather than %HP-based.
Holy Shield: Replace with a Demon-type skill that deals no damage, but makes monsters weak to every element.
Infinity: Replace with a passive improvement of Magic Guard. At max level, HP only takes 10% damage and MP takes 50%; the other 40% is absorbed by the skill itself.
Elquines: Enlarge hitbox, increase basic attack to about 360, and allow it to mob 4.
Ifrit: Enlarge hitbox, increase basic attack to about 400, and allow it to mob 4.
Bahamut: Enlarge hitbox, increase basic attack to about 310, and allow it to mob 4.
Paralyze: Increase basic attack to about 280.
Chain Lightning: Increase basic attack to about 240 and enlarge chainable hitbox.
Angel's Ray: Increase basic attack to about 320 and allow it to pierce 3.
Meteor/Blizzard: Change to an area effect similar to squid's ink, with 200 basic attack. Inflicts damage to all monsters within range (same as current hitbox) every second for 15 seconds. Has a cooldown of 1 minute.
Genesis: Change to an area effect similar to squid's ink, with 250 basic attack. Inflicts damage to all monsters within range (same as current hitbox) every second for 15 seconds. Has a cooldown of 1 minute.
This would make for decently effective training with ID + Ifrit + CL, and Holy Shield + Bahamut + AR (LOL that sounds so weird), as well as opening up endless possibilities using "Holy Shield" in conjunction with AMs, Paladins, and even Corsairs. Though I admit F/Ps get the short end of the stick with Paralyze being single target.
All other classes I don't really care about. lol
What i have problems with/extension of what you said.
Russt Wrote:Infinity: Replace with a passive improvement of Magic Guard. At max level, HP only takes 10% damage and MP takes 50%; the other 40% is absorbed by the skill itself.
Hell no. What you just suggested should be an extension of mana reflection, where it works exactly like PG. Reflects 200% damage taken, but the damage you take is 50% less damage. Don't change mana reflection being a non party skill. I say keep infinity the same. Every class needs one junk skill, don't they?
Russt Wrote:Holy Shield: Replace with a Demon-type skill that deals no damage, but makes monsters weak to every element.
Extension: The way this should work is that it only works on one monster, and doesn't wear off until dead. Also, why the hell is it demon based if it's casted by a bishop? O.O
Also, if you're going to increase damage and hitbox range for CL, you have to increase paralyze's damage up to like 350 or something.
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What I would have wanted:
Dark knights:
Beholders buff: Make every single one of his buffs stack and last double what they do now.
Beholders healing: Make it heal a lot more and a lot faster while not going over berserked threshold. Also make it not heal you if you aren't berserked if it doesn't do so already.
Berserk: Make it not useless in the beginning of it's leveling process. Make it so as you level it the HP mark goes down and the damage increase goes up. (ie: 80% HP/+X% at level 1, 79% HP/+X% at level 2)
Paladins:
Heavens hammer: Make the monsters HP go down to 1 regardless of HP, but obviously does not work on bosses. KMST cooldown as of .190 still applies.
Blast: Make it fixed range if the KMST change didn't do so already. Also make the slash stab ratio more in favor of BW paladins. (lower chances to stab, increase changes to swing, but only applied to blast)
Shadowers:
Assassinate: Make the animation a THIRD of the time it takes right now. Assassinations are quick...not drawn out. >_>
Smoke shell: Increase the duration to 2 minutes, and decrease cooldown to 6 or 8 minutes.
Boomerang step: Make it able to attack in the air like SB.
Vipers:
Energy orb: Decrease % damage to 810% and make it's damage static throughout it's chain. (% damage stays the same)
Speed infusion: Allow it to break the speed cap and work for spells.
Time leap: Reduce max level to 20 and make it's cooldown 20 minutes.
Corsairs:
Rapid fire: 190% per bullet and be affected by booster/speed infusion.
Amplification: 300% damage and make the DoT based off HP instead of bullet damage.
Bowmasters:
Hurricane: Make it affected by booster/speed infusion.
Heroes:
Brandish: Make the first hit a swing, but the second hit have the normal slash/stab ratio.
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Some of em are kinda over the top, but generally i evened things out and kept in mind for filler skills/the MW increase.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - RoxStarz - 2009-01-17
for NightLords I would have liked to have seen some of our completely useless skills replaced with useful skills.
Ninja Ambush replaced with STAR EXPERT: Passive. At max lvl 90% mastery, +20 att, +20% chance to critical.
That would be a nice start.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Sinnuendo - 2009-01-17
RoxStarz Wrote:for NightLords I would have liked to have seen some of our completely useless skills replaced with useful skills.
Ninja Ambush replaced with STAR EXPERT: Passive. At max lvl 90% mastery, +20 att, +20% chance to critical.
That would be a nice start.
Extra mastery is borderline useless, +att and +crit make an already broken class even more broken.
I say that the extra mastery is useless because L7 and TT have built-in 50% Mastery, Avenger really isn't that great of a mob skill, and by the time you're 4th job, you'll probably be taking too much damage for Drain to be effective.
I'd have liked:
Mages:
Blizzard: Lower to around 22x attack, lower cost
Meteor: Lower to around 25x attack, lower cost
Genesis: Lower to around 28x attack, lower cost
Paralyze: Increase to 6xx attack
Chain Lightning: Increase to 3xx attack, damage remains constant through mob
Angel's Ray: Increase to 5xx attack
Infinity: Increase duration
Holy Shield: Remove or shorten cooldown
Warriors:
Blast: Fixed range (more horizontal range than Brandish, less vertical)
All Charges: Increase in damage%
Berserk: Works like Energy Charge, but charges through taking damage; when it's fully charged, you get Berserked for x seconds
Beholder: Give it an attack skill, or give it a debuff skill for monsters
Enrage: Reduce cooldown
Thieves:
Ninja Storm: Reduce cast time
Ninja Ambush: Improve duration
Assassinate: Reduce cast time
Archers:
Hurricane: Enable walking while holding down the key (as in, actually walk with the key held down instead of tapping the key while walking)
Pierce: Remove charge time
Phoenix: Add a burn effect (similar to Flamethrower's DOT)
Concentrate: Increase duration or reduce cooldown
Pirates:
Demolition: Reduce cast time
Super Transformation: Reduce cooldown
Snatch: Increase range
Speed Infusion: Break speed cap
Wrath of the Octopi: Increase duration, remove cooldown
Air Strike: Reduce damage, increase # of targets to 15
Rapid Fire: Increase damage
Battleship Cannon: Change levels 1-15 to 4 bullets
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - IsaacGS - 2009-01-17
How about we make Dragon Breath work on bosses? >_>
It's kinda ridiculous that rush, Screw punch, etc. all work on bosses, but our skill doesn't.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Hazzy - 2009-01-17
Un-break Lucky Seven's damage formula pls. :[
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Mark - 2009-01-17
RoxStarz Wrote:for NightLords I would have liked to have seen some of our completely useless skills replaced with useful skills.
Ninja Ambush replaced with STAR EXPERT: Passive. At max lvl 90% mastery, +20 att, +20% chance to critical.
That would be a nice start.
I lol'd That's a good joke.
IsaacGS Wrote:How about we make Dragon Breath work on bosses? >_>
It's kinda ridiculous that rush, Screw punch, etc. all work on bosses, but our skill doesn't.
Probably because you have range advantage. I never felt the need to push back any of the bosses I was soloing. HH, BF, Pap; they never get close enough to me to deal touch damage.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Dusk - 2009-01-17
I'm happy with most of the skills as they are after 1.2.190...90% of the changes proposed in this thread are kind of ridiculous.
I would like to see:
SI working for magic
CL/Paralyze/I/FDemon powered up
Bishops given a small area mob skill in place of Infinity
5 second cooldowns on all ultimates
Mana reflection as a party buff
Crit for Phoenix (works with regular crit skill and SE - 55% chance of hitting for 790 attack instead of 550)
Some kind of passive boost to Inferno and Arrow Rain instead of Hamstring
Berserk changed to activate for a short length of time after being hit (NOT only while blinking, wtp? you'd run into monsters before every attack just to get more damage) - I propose 10 seconds, maybe a little more or less
More healing from Aura of the Beholder (perhaps 1000 HP every 4 seconds)
More elementally weak bosses and mobs ESPECIALLY FIRE
Not a 4th job skill but I'd also like to see Onyx Apples nerfed to +25 att/+120 magic.
I do agree that Marksmen should be stronger than Bowmasters but BMs are kind of shafted in the training department already.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - PeePeeAyeDeeKay - 2009-01-17
Heroes
Paladins
Dark Knights
Think I might have went a bit overpowered rather than balanced >< , no flame plx >.> .
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Loose - 2009-01-17
- Venom to work with Band of Thieves.
- Faster Assassinate.
- Useful Ninja Ambush.
- Energy Orb: Hit 900% > 800% > 700% > 600% > 500% > 400%, from monster to monster.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - ยป-Chris-> - 2009-01-17
Paladins- Increase ACB damage or some sort of attack that will be good on neutral monsters.
BWs-Dammit make a good 2-handed one that isn't so slow. Morningstars don't count.
Shadowers- Just change the formula to like [(Luk*4+Dex+Str)/100]*Atk
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - kleptophobia - 2009-01-17
Heroes: Brandish 30 from 260% to 9001%, hits 15 targets, and has full screen range. But that ain't happening.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Findings - 2009-01-17
Opeth Wrote:You guys obviously don't know what you're talking about. As of now, Bowmasters are chosen over Marksman to go to Horntail. Guess why?
Marksman are supposed to outdamage Bowmasters in all circumstances, but they don't.
Have you even killed HT? I've never heard of Bowmasters being chosen over Marksmen and I've been on at least 40 runs. All the organizers I've talked to cared more about survivability than damage. On the runs I've been on, SE only gets a fraction of the apples and this makes it pretty clear what their real purpose is. BMs are more beneficial in terms of DPS because they actually have a fast skill in 4th job that they can take advantage of, but Horntail's frequent unavoidable attacks nearly ruin it.
If a class is "supposed" to outdamage another class in every circumstance, there is no point in the class that is worse in every scenario existing in the first place. It would make much more sense to delete the class and convert all BMs to Marksmen than to spend time making sure that every skill that Rangers/Bowmasters have is equal or worse, in terms of both speed and power.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Takebacker - 2009-01-17
Findings Wrote:If a class is "supposed" to outdamage another class in every circumstance, there is no point in the class that is worse in every scenario existing in the first place.
Because fun and other RPG advantages never exist in this game. No sir-ee.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Kaasoljoyyx - 2009-01-17
Findings Wrote:Have you even killed HT? I've never heard of Bowmasters being chosen over Marksmen and I've been on at least 40 runs. All the organizers I've talked to cared more about survivability than damage. On the runs I've been on, SE only gets a fraction of the apples and this makes it pretty clear what their real purpose is. BMs are more beneficial in terms of DPS because they actually have a fast skill in 4th job that they can take advantage of, but Horntail's frequent unavoidable attacks nearly ruin it.
If a class is "supposed" to outdamage another class in every circumstance, there is no point in the class that is worse in every scenario existing in the first place. It would make much more sense to delete the class and convert all BMs to Marksmen than to spend time making sure that every skill that Rangers/Bowmasters have is equal or worse, in terms of both speed and power.
BM vs MM is like Archmage vs Bishop
Bishop - Primary support skill
Archmage - Primary damage
There is no reason for bishops to be on equal terms of damage with archmages or complain about archmages doing more damage. I have to agree with Opeth. Marksmen are supposed to be stronger but slower, and that is true. You seem to neglect the advantages of BMs over MMs and just look at what you don't have.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - PeePeeAyeDeeKay - 2009-01-17
kleptophobia Wrote:Heroes: Brandish 30 from 260% to 9001%, hits 15 targets, and has full screen range. But that ain't happening.
9001%?! o.o" Thats like OHKO to anything with less than 200k HP...I smell bandwagoning if that happens -f3-
[SPOILER=Putting the "Combo" back in Combo Attack... looks INSANELY overpowered... though doesn't seem like a bad idea.... concept-wise.]
Making Combo/Adv Combo more useful than just looks and increasing damage i'd say...
"10 hit Panic": Panic hits a target upto 10 times depending on how many orbs are charged. One additional hit for every orb.
"5 hit Coma" Coma hits 6 targets upto 5 times depending on how many orbs are charged. One additional hit for every 2 orbs.
"10 hit Panic" and "5 hit Coma" aren’t new skills but bonuses from Adv Combo in addition to the 2 orbs per one attack chance and damage boost. Adds the “Combo” back into “Combo Attack” I guess.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Worthyness - 2009-01-17
I want crit for phoenix (and/or burn)...
Oh! And the fire field burn effect Inferno used to have! that would be damn awesome
Push back would be cool for Dp too 0_o
I like that MM should get 5 sec snipe w/ higher damage cap. I agree it's damage vs. speed and should stay that way.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - KajitiSouls - 2009-01-17
IsaacGS Wrote:How about we make Dragon Breath work on bosses? >_>
It's kinda ridiculous that rush, Screw punch, etc. all work on bosses, but our skill doesn't.
Maybe because our skills have substance in it, and yours doesn't =P
What, you think an arrow is capable of blowing a boss monster half a mile away? (it says in a skill description string somewhere)
PeePeeAyeDeeKay Wrote:Heavens Hammer(Sanctuary): Isn't a Paladin suppose to be "Holy Judgement?... explains why this skill is a Hammer animation. Some type of debuff like a crash that does damage that works not only on all buffs monsters use but also on Physical and Magical Invincibility and Damage Reflection(pink being). This would make Paladins accept much more at bosses. "Rid the sins of the monster", well buffs in this case.
Ooh, that would really justify a cooldown rate xD (aside from MP costs being low) I give cookie points for thinking about that.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Findings - 2009-01-18
Takebacker Wrote:Because fun and other RPG advantages never exist in this game. No sir-ee.
Read. If a class has everything exactly the same or worse, it will not be as fun as playing the class that is exactly the same or better.
Kaasoljoyyx Wrote:Marksmen are supposed to be stronger but slower, and that is true. You seem to neglect the advantages of BMs over MMs and just look at what you don't have.
And they are stronger but slower. Read what you quoted (for the record though, I'm not really expecting the likes of someone that leeches off of hackers to be able to read an entire paragraph and comprehend it).
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Eight - 2009-01-18
I only know of Paladins, so this:
-Increased charge multiplier (Ice: 1.2, Fire: 1.3, Thunder: 1.35, Holy: 1,5)
-Increased Blast damage (assuming range was already increased) to 600%.
-Threaten to be percentage based, but slashed so that it reduces only 10-15% of the enemy's physical attack/defense. However, in exchange for this reduction, it also reduces 5-10% of the enemy's magic attack/defense.
-Nothing for Sanctuary except for the cooldown to remain at 20 seconds. I realize that what I mentioned before about Holy being 1.5 multiplier and Blast being 600% would make it 900%, equivalent of maxed Sanctuary, but I haven't thought that far ahead.
What changes would you like to see in 4th job skills? - Silence - 2009-01-18
Current Description :
Quote:Ice Demon
Description: Engulf the enemies with a pillar of ice: they will be constantly damaged by the ice and become weak to fire elemental attacks.
Ice demon is a really nice skill. If anyone have trained with ID/CL/Ifrit combo, they should realize that mages dont really have "elemental advantages".
Eg.
Vikings :
using ID to -> ( vikings become weak to fire elemental attacks but it also removes the elemental advantage of being lightning weak ) -> clearly makes CL weaker than it should be...
Bains :
using ID to -> ( vikings become weak to fire elemental attacks but it also removes the elemental advantage of being ice weak ) -> clearly makes the 2nd ID weaker than it should be...
What I would like to see is IF they can change ice demon so monsters would become weak to fire elemental attacks, but ALSO keep their own elemental weakness instead of making them neutral and making other main attack crappy f3.