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+--- Thread: Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. (/showthread.php?tid=34141)
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Hanabira.Kage - 2010-12-12
GunisBack Wrote:So you're saying that anyone who wants to scar/tar for fun during this, without intent to glitch, is still abusing a glitch?
The whole thing about Scarlion and Targa doing shit damage and being weak enough to be killed in 8 minutes is basically a glitch in itself. If you kill them, it counts as glitch exploitation regardless.
I'm afraid I'll have to be with Eos on this one.
I'm afraid I'll have to be with Eos on this one.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - GunisBack - 2010-12-12
Hanabira.Kage Wrote:The whole thing about Scarlion and Targa doing shit damage and being weak enough to be killed in 8 minutes is basically a glitch in itself. If you kill them, it counts as glitch exploitation regardless.
I'm afraid I'll have to be with Eos on this one.
So what, I should wait 4 months for Nexon to fix it until I go to a Scar run again? Tough luck Nexon. Shouldn't have messed it up in the first place.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Polantaris - 2010-12-12
I would think that these types of mistakes should go under a rule similar to that of someone in a College Classroom.
At least where I live, if you get to class in College, and the Professor is over 20 minutes late and no where to be seen, the students are free to leave and the Professor has no right to punish them because of his own tardiness, unless the students were warned prior (Like through e-mail or note on the Classroom door).
I think the same type of rule should apply here. Of course not 20 minutes, but meanwhile...if Nexon fails to correct an obvious mistake like this in let's say...a week...then it should become fair game to all players, ESPECIALLY if Nexon says nothing about it (Because let's face it, even if they tried to use an excuse like "we didn't want all the players abusing this glitch"...after a week everyone who cares knows already).
No, it hasn't been a week yet, meanwhile Nexon has made no effort to change any of these glitches that are present, after SEVERAL maintenances in which they could have. They fixed the SP problem with some Resets, they fixed all kinds of other glitches, hell NexonKR fixed Claw Machines in like two days. There's no excuse for NexonNA being unable to clear this issue out by now unless they are just plain lazy. Watching activity levels for a MINUTE can easily clue them in that SEVERAL areas have something that makes people want to jump all over it. They can send ANYONE in their team to look into it and go "Oh hey, Gallos give 2.5k while everytihng else Level 90 gives under 1k, and Hey, Truckers give 500 while everything their level barely gives 150. There's something wrong here! WE SHOULD FIX IT!" But instead, Nexon has done NOTHING. They have made no visible attempt to fix any issue present, with PLENTY of time available and PLENTY of chances to fix it. Not our fault anymore, it's theirs. The teacher didn't show up, time to leave the classroom.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - IImaplers - 2010-12-12
imo, the real issue here is not whether or not someone is really exploiting said glitch but Nexon's incompetence in presenting it in the first place.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - sinisterboy9 - 2010-12-12
You guys make good arguments; however Eos is right. This is a glitch, and it is Nexon's fault. Are not all glitches the fault of the company? It is still a glitch nonetheless because the boss is working in a way unintended and is able to be exploited.
I agree it is quite ridiculous - not only do players have to wait however long for them to fix it, but killing it legitimately and without greedy intentions would be considered a glitch.
Still, players who choose to kill Scarlion/Targa - no matter the reason - still assumes the risk of punishment because the fact is that Nexon holds the right to punish anyone. They are the ones who decide if this is an exploit; they are the ones who hold the power. Players' arguments, should they choose to impose consequences, will be futile and disregarded, so it would be safer just to avoid killing them for now.
Therefore, Eos is just warning that should anything happen to players as a result of this, they have no right to complain because it was they who chose to assume the risk. It's not really an argument, just a statement.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Satellite - 2010-12-12
BF was different. I don't think they will ban every1 who visited malaysia, ulu city and singapore, just because they screwed up theirself.
But yes, it's a form of exploiting, though the effects are not as critical. I mean, you can't even train at Truckers/Gallos nowadays, cause there's 5-7 people in each channel EVEN in Yellonde, that usually has, what 5-8 people in FM entrance. In Scania most people will just go train elsewhere because fighting for a spot/sharing with 3 people at gallos is not worth it, when you could level alone instead.
The ones who should have been punished, would have been people dupeing Pink Scrolls, by exploiting new character event glitch.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Cactuar - 2010-12-12
Honestly, I think it'd be great if they left this and the JMS bosses alone so people that don't have all of the HP in the game actually can kill them for decent EXP. It was, and has always been, horseshit that you needed to HP wash to even think about doing those bosses if you were outside of the"expected" set of classes.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Kojo - 2010-12-12
Is this actually confirmed to be a glitch or done unintentionally though? I don't see any actual proof. I'm not saying it isn't a glitch, I'm just asking if there's any basis on it being a glitch or not.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Sarah - 2010-12-12
Kojo Wrote:Is this actually confirmed to be a glitch or done unintentionally though? I don't see any actual proof. I'm not saying it isn't a glitch, I'm just asking if there's any basis on it being a glitch or not.
Abusing an oversight is the equivalent to abusing a glitch. It doesn't matter which it is.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Kojo - 2010-12-12
Sarah Wrote:Abusing an oversight is the equivalent to abusing a glitch. It doesn't matter which it is.
But how are we supposed to know if it's an oversight or not..
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Retalion - 2010-12-12
How much damage did Scarlion/Targa do before?
I have no knowledge in extractions so I dont have the indepth look nor information that some others may have, but I WILL say this:
Pianus (right): 4.8k laser down to 1.5k
Pap bombs: 1.5k touch damage down to 400
Tengu/Crow: 8k magic attack down to 1.8k
Red Samurai: Didnt try it before BB, but after, it is doing 150 dmg
Bigfoot: 14k dmg down to 1k
"If anything seems too good to be true, then it probably is"...well, all those above bosses definitely seem too good to be true...
Are all these bosses glitched? For all we know, Scarlion/Targa's damage reduce could merely be with the pattern with the purpose of allowing people with not as much hp to survive and fight them.
@above: We dont know. However, if I remembered correctly, during the BF incident, Nexon had stated "If you arent sure, play it safe and dont do it"
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Sarah - 2010-12-12
Kojo Wrote:But how are we supposed to know if it's an oversight or not..
Common sense. Eos already explained in his earlier posts how you should know. Most importantly, if it seems to good to be true, it probably is.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Polantaris - 2010-12-12
Retalion Wrote:How much damage did Scarlion/Targa do before?
I have no knowledge in extractions so I dont have the indepth look nor information that some others may have, but I WILL say this:
Pianus (right): 4.8k laser down to 1.5k
Pap bombs: 1.5k touch damage down to 400
Tengu/Crow: 8k magic attack down to 1.8k
Red Samurai: Didnt try it before BB, but after, it is doing 150 dmg
Bigfoot: 14k dmg down to 1k
"If anything seems too good to be true, then it probably is"...well, all those above bosses definitely seem too good to be true...
Are all these bosses glitched? For all we know, Scarlion/Targa's damage reduce could merely be with the pattern with the purpose of allowing people with not as much hp to survive and fight them.
@above: We dont know. However, if I remembered correctly, during the BF incident, Nexon had stated "If you arent sure, play it safe and dont do it"
I don't know about the rest, but in KMS I don't remember Pap bombs doing 1.5k damage.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - SaptaZapta - 2010-12-12
Of course it's an oversight (=glitch).
It's totally undignified that the bosses dropping the second-best helm in the game can't defend themselves anymore.
Zakum kept his powers, although since we keep getting stronger those powers can no longer save him from any but the weakest challengers (instead, he relies on d/c hacks... play fair, Zak!). Scarlion and Targar should also have kept their strengths.
However, I don't see what the big deal is. The benefits are just not that great. The exp is low, the drop rate is unimpressive, the helms are one-of-a-kind, and you can only go in twice a day (unless they changed that?). Furthermore, the helms require Karma to sell. Just how much can you abuse this setup for your own gain?
You can get helms for all your friends and mules that are 90 and over, and you can sell helms to everyone else who can afford karma (and not much profit beyond that, since competition is too stiff). Ho hum.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Jamie_Kurosawa - 2010-12-12
What are the EXP rates of the bosses affected?
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Retalion - 2010-12-12
Polantaris Wrote:I don't know about the rest, but in KMS I don't remember Pap bombs doing 1.5k damage.
Pap bombs before BB did roughly 1.5k touch, 3.5-4k explosion, and 5-6k powered up explosions to me...equips might have something to do with it, as I dont have the highest defense out there, but it doesnt change the fact that the damage dealt IS ridiculously low (warrior friends were taking 1 dmg from pap bombs)
[video=youtube;Hm2Spxv_TxQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm2Spxv_TxQ[/video]
See around 2.5 minutes; the guy takes a 1.7k physical hit from a bomb, 3.6k from an exploding bomb at roughly 3:40
Edit: Excuse the brutally poor gameplay, but adding this for comparison: Pap AFTER Big Bang:
[video=youtube;Sc-tZVnUpyE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc-tZVnUpyE[/video]
At around 2 minutes, this marksman took 3xx dmg from an EXPLODING pap bomb (if you look at first video, it does 10x that).
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - ultimax21 - 2010-12-12
Retalion Wrote:Pianus (right): 4.8k laser down to 1.5k
Pap bombs: 1.5k touch damage down to 400
Tengu/Crow: 8k magic attack down to 1.8k
Red Samurai: Didnt try it before BB, but after, it is doing 150 dmg
Bigfoot: 14k dmg down to 1k
Royal Guard Type S: 18k touch dmg to a mere 2-3k
Anego: Slaps for about 17k to about 3k-4k
BodyGuard A: Kicks 12k+ to 4k, 2k bump now
Red Samurai: 8k magic, 11k bump in pre bb (add on)
Pap bombs: On top used to deal 8k explosion dmg down to 100-500 (add on)
Thought I'd add to the list but I know there's quite a bit of bossing SSes with the new laughable damages that these bosses do now. However, I guess I don't quite meet your standards posted there. Perhaps I should look and test some more but its so hard to test most bosses now because of the crashing issues.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Lozmaster - 2010-12-12
Retalion Wrote:At around 2 minutes, this marksman took 3xx dmg from an EXPLODING pap bomb (if you look at first video, it does 10x that).
Paps top bombs are also hilariously weak now too. I don't remeber how mcuh they were hitting me for a few days ago while exploding, but it was below 400
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - QSCX - 2010-12-12
Yeah, I somehow remember the upper Pap bombs eplxoding for 8,000 damage on me; now they're doing 400. Too bad I can't fight Pap long enough before having my client crash.
Guys, seriously go to scar/targa now. - Eos - 2010-12-12
Polantaris Wrote:if Nexon fails to correct an obvious mistake like this in let's say...a week...then it should become fair game to all players, ESPECIALLY if Nexon says nothing about it (Because let's face it, even if they tried to use an excuse like "we didn't want all the players abusing this glitch"...after a week everyone who cares knows already).
This misses the absolutely critical fact that for all changes that require the WZ's get repacked Nexon America has to have Nexon Korea do the work.
As has been repeatedly discussed, Nexon America has no in house WZ developers. It's all done by a team in Korea that has to be sent the work and that team has to fit it into an existing release cycle. Unless something is absolutely game breaking make it unplayable they don't do emergency out of cycle WZ patches. In the past five years we've had at most two of those that I can recall.
As for not announcing it, despite what you think, a huge majority of Maplers have zero awareness of the various forums and think the Nexon forums are the end all be all and don't read anything that isn't published on the Nexon site. Actually a good chunk of those don't even read the forums and only read the Nexon announcements section, and there are even players who don't read anything at all. Pointing to an opening on their site and warning that it's a known glitch doesn't do them any good, it just gives it yet more publicity. How many people who were told bigfoot abuse would be punished on the nexon site actually stopped abusing it? How many went there anyway thinking they'd be safe?
There is no winning in the situation Nexon is in. They can't stop it because they don't have the manpower to sit on every map of every channel of every server 24/7 till it's done, they can't snap their fingers and fix it, they can't tell you not to do it without encouraging more people to exploit it and their inability to be everywhere at once. All they can do is fall back on their "We told you so" and punish people at random to make an example of them. It's not fair to Nexon. It's not fair to the players. It just proves that abuse screws over everyone, regardless.
Subject has been pretty well beaten to death now, RIP.