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+---- Thread: Fixing Paladins (/showthread.php?tid=1537)
Fixing Paladins - Nikkey - 2008-07-23
ZartMorder Wrote:The fact that the Temple of Time has come out with stronger monsters without any Holy weaknesses is not proof enough for you?
I haven't seen those maps, so I'm not sure if those maps are designed so the experience is better than Skelegons.
Fixing Paladins - ZartMorder - 2008-07-23
DrRusty Wrote:have u been keeping up with the temple of time? The last time I read it, they said there are 2 unreleased areas, timeless and holy. In other words, the endgame training map is going to be........... zomgg........ wait for it........... weak to holy :f6:
Last time I checked, monsters that represent an element are resistant to that element. A holy area means holy-resisting monsters, and so Holy Charge would be terrible on them.
Devil's Sunrise Wrote:I haven't seen those maps, so I'm not sure if those maps are designed so the experience is better than Skelegons.
I wasn't really saying that those maps were necessarily good for training. I'm just saying that's proof of more monsters coming that have potential of new training areas that aren't good for Holy Charge.
Fixing Paladins - Nikkey - 2008-07-23
ZartMorder Wrote:I wasn't really saying that those maps were necessarily good for training. I'm just saying that's proof of more monsters coming that have potential of new training areas that aren't good for Holy Charge.
I wouldn't worry about this anyway. If this is true, then okay, what do we do? Nothing, because we can't, and mostly because noone cares enough. At least that was what happened when gobies and himes was out, and white knights had to train at himes without any elemental advantage. I don't see why this is going to be different.
Just wait for new content.
And, as a last note, please keep in mind that Crimsonwood Keep is most likely going to be a future training spot for high-leveled maplers. Level 120 guardians? heh.
Fixing Paladins - DrRusty - 2008-07-23
ZartMorder Wrote:Last time I checked, monsters that represent an element are resistant to that element. A holy area means holy-resisting monsters, and so Holy Charge would be terrible on them.
I wasn't really saying that those maps were necessarily good for training. I'm just saying that's proof of more monsters coming that have potential of new training areas that aren't good for Holy Charge.
dude everyone already knows the last time temple map is going to be holy weak
well we don't 100% know but its kind of a big duhh 
Fixing Paladins - Hero - 2008-07-23
Uh, how is the past not enough proof for you that holy weak will be the end-game training spot?
Coolies?
Grims?
Himes?
Skele?
I'm not sure about you, but I'm starting to kind of understand the patern. Also, I'm not sure how obvious "timeless" implies "undead" to you guys, buttttttt yeaaaahhhhhhhh. That, and there's no "dark" element except for panic (which doesn't actually do anything), so I doubt there'll be an holy area where nobody has an elemental advantage.
Fixing Paladins - DrRusty - 2008-07-23
Hero Wrote:Uh, how is the past not enough proof for you that holy weak will be the end-game training spot?
Coolies?
Grims?
Himes?
Skele?
I'm not sure about you, but I'm starting to kind of understand the patern. Also, I'm not sure how obvious "timeless" implies "undead" to you guys, buttttttt yeaaaahhhhhhhh. That, and there's no "dark" element except for panic (which doesn't actually do anything), so I doubt there'll be an holy area where nobody has an elemental advantage.
I wish I could find the thread about the time temple and how alot of it isnt released yet. (It was showing the world tour map, and how some of the dots on the maps werent out yet) anyways, the time temple kind of reminds me about how leafre was released.
1st part of leafre - highest lvl monster to train on was actually strong to holy (birks)
2nd part of leafre - Cornians are definently NOT weak to holy
3rd part of leafre - zomg heyyyy I DIDNT SEE THAT COMING AT ALL. skeles comes out.
in other words, paladins are just fine the way they are, and can take full advantage of the end game maps.
Fixing Paladins - ZartMorder - 2008-07-23
I don't really see why you are all arguing against this. This change is NOT intended to make Paladins any stronger. It is merely to allow them more variety in the places they can train without sacrificing their ability to kill. Not everyone likes to be locked into the same training area for huge chunks of levels.
Fixing Paladins - Hero - 2008-07-23
ZartMorder Wrote:I don't really see why you are all arguing against this. This change is NOT intended to make Paladins any stronger. It is merely to allow them more variety in the places they can train without sacrificing their ability to kill. Not everyone likes to be locked into the same training area for huge chunks of levels.
Anyone out for the best exp is always stuck in the same areas, and at the later levels you'll always train with a bishop who are, in general, at skele.
Fixing Paladins - Lozmaster - 2008-07-24
Uhhh...
Paladins are broken? nah. Fine as they are. Maybe a minute boost on fire charge so fire blast outdamages brandish 1v1 (around 3%), even though it's already such a minute difference it doesn't matter.
Personally, I'm fine with being the strongest 1v1 class other than bowmasters when the character has SE or apples (both is NL obv)
Fixing Paladins - Beserker101 - 2008-07-24
Well, I personally (although not at the paladin point yet) would like to see a bit more chances for paladins at bosses so a difference in the amount a resistance makes on bosses would be nice. In the PPQ, I chose to go no charge over fire charge at Lord Pirate and I became so pointless despite being one of the highest levels (in multiple partes). Although beyond that, things don't look too bad, holy as the strongest charge is fine by me even if it does kinda dwarf the other charges' power.
Fixing Paladins - Ray - 2008-07-24
Thats a really smart idea (the first one)
You'd have to do the same with fire/lightning/ice though. Otherwise pallys would just OWN at crow/pianus.
Fixing Paladins - Ranylyn - 2008-07-24
Personally, if I could change any one thing, I'd add some status-based charges, like Poison Charge, Drain Charge, Stun Charge, etc. Besides that, Paladins are just highly underrated.
Fixing Paladins - ZartMorder - 2008-07-24
Ray Wrote:Thats a really smart idea (the first one)
You'd have to do the same with fire/lightning/ice though. Otherwise pallys would just OWN at crow/pianus.
Er... Doing the same thing to the other charges would negate the whole purpose. The idea is to even out the charges so Paladins can fight other element weak monsters without losing on power from not using Holy.
Fixing Paladins - Dusk - 2008-07-24
I like the idea of giving Holy Charge a synergy for the other Elemental Charges. It's the cleanest way to change things (only one skill would be affected, and nothing would change in 3rd job), it makes more sense than dumping the effect into ACB, and it would open up ALL elements to Paladins rather than fixating them in one. They would still be weaker on elementally neutral monsters, but it is a big improvement, especially if more endgame level fire/ice/lightning monsters are released.
I don't like the direction 4th job and Leafre has led a lot of classes. Instead of the variety of skills that were available in 3rd job, most classes are now forced to use one skill everywhere.
Fixing Paladins - MysticHLE - 2008-07-24
Personally, I think it's Nexon's intention to design Paladins like this.
Think of it this way: We're a cross between mage and warrior. DKs and Heros are better in smaller mobs (2-3), whereas Mages in general are better in big mobs of 6-15. A Paladin specializes in mobs of 4-6, and is weak against mobs of 2-3 like mages are. But we're still strong against single monster like our other warrior classes. It's just design...if you don't like it go make a Hero. If all classes in the game had similar damages and potentials, then this game would be more boring than it is. >_> It's also why we suck at bosses...mages suck at bosses, don't they? >.<
Personally I'd like to see the Magic increase that the charges give us be a party skill to help mages to encourage them to party with us! After all, we are the warrior mages~...
Fixing Paladins - butterfλi - 2008-07-24
MysticHLE Wrote:Personally, I think it's Nexon's intention to design Paladins like this.
Think of it this way: We're a cross between mage and warrior. DKs and Heros are better in smaller mobs (2-3), whereas Mages in general are better in big mobs of 6-15. A Paladin specializes in mobs of 4-6, and is weak against mobs of 2-3 like mages are. But we're still strong against single monster like our other warrior classes. It's just design...if you don't like it go make a Hero. If all classes in the game had similar damages and potentials, then this game would be more boring than it is. >_> It's also why we suck at bosses...mages suck at bosses, don't they? >.<
Magicians suck at bosses but make up for it in fast leveling. An archmage grinding all day can do a level a day at 15x without 2x. It's also the reason why many many level 100-120 people ask to pay archmages for parties at newties and such.
Paladins, like magicians, are weak in one department (training/partying) but they're stronger than archmages at bosses.
Lots of things in maplestory needs fixing overall though.
Fixing Paladins - ZartMorder - 2008-07-24
MysticHLE Wrote:Personally, I think it's Nexon's intention to design Paladins like this.
Think of it this way: We're a cross between mage and warrior. DKs and Heros are better in smaller mobs (2-3), whereas Mages in general are better in big mobs of 6-15. A Paladin specializes in mobs of 4-6, and is weak against mobs of 2-3 like mages are. But we're still strong against single monster like our other warrior classes. It's just design...if you don't like it go make a Hero. If all classes in the game had similar damages and potentials, then this game would be more boring than it is. >_> It's also why we suck at bosses...mages suck at bosses, don't they? >.<
Personally I'd like to see the Magic increase that the charges give us be a party skill to help mages to encourage them to party with us! After all, we are the warrior mages~...
I'm not asking for an increase in our damage potential. All I want is for the elements to be evened out so that we can actually use them all without a large sacrifice of damage because we aren't using Holy.
I don't have a problem with the amount of damage we can do, this is merely a change to allow for more diversity in places we can be useful. We'll still have a plethora of neutral/resistant monsters that we'll be staying away from.
Fixing Paladins - (D-_-)-D - 2008-07-28
Be liek diablo 2 and have charges be party skills.
People will flock to pally's just like the flock to SE mules.
Also, a dark charge that's strong against neutrals would help >_>
Fixing Paladins - Xelstyle - 2008-07-28
(D-_-)-D Wrote:Be liek diablo 2 and have charges be party skills.
People will flock to pally's just like the flock to SE mules.
Also, a dark charge that's strong against neutrals would help >_>
That wouldn't make those neutral monsters...neutral anymore would it? o_o
Fixing Paladins - Wani - 2008-07-28
Of all the ideas for Paladins, this one has to actually be the best. Paladins shouldn't be as good as other characters on holy-weak monsters, they should be much stronger. I also like the idea of making the magic boost from charges a party skill. Make them not so bad on neutral monsters, and make them slightly better on element-weak monsters.
Perhaps another good idea would be to modify Holy Charge so it has a passive skill, increasing the strength of their other charges?