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Ground Zero Mosque - DeanNim - 2010-07-19
Well geez, thanks for the stereotype america. [actually the guy in the video is from england but whatever]
Islam and its teachings never taught the followers violence, killings, even to the most hated 'enemy' the jews. Even though this is happening in america, what this guy said hit me... hard.
[video=youtube;vjS0Novt3X4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4&NR=1[/video]
EDIT : Im not fuelling a hate fest but in my own opinion, if most citizens do not want the mosque to be built then theyd better dont build it there. Riots or things like that will surely occur if these islamic activists actually went on with their plan. Plus it is morally rude too, i mean lots of lives were lost and emotions were running wild, you know.
Ground Zero Mosque - Five Second Pose - 2010-07-19
If this turns into a religion discussion, it gets closed immediately.
Ground Zero Mosque - sicnarf - 2010-07-19
Every time I think the world is an okay place...faithInHumanity--;
Ground Zero Mosque - Hazzy - 2010-07-19
This Youtuber... ugh. Tiny Island. Tiny gene pool. <_<
Saying it's rude to build an Islamic Mosque near Ground Zero is like saying it's rude to have a Japanese district in a Hawaiian town. Being overly sensitive about stuff like this only makes the conflict worse.
Ground Zero Mosque - TøbiasBlack - 2010-07-19
speaking of ground zero...
WHERES THAT FREEDOM TOWER GUYS? its been, what, 9 years, and still nothing?
-nothing more to add-
Ground Zero Mosque - Erich - 2010-07-19
There are always people who will ruin things in this world. I guarantee the Muslims who proposed this mosque aren't the "good" faithful Muslims, but the more corrupted and terroristic Muslims we all know and hate. And their people are going to have to suffer for that title on their religion, as always, a few people ruin it for everyone else. They should fight them themselves if they still want to have a place in the ever more hating world.
And at above, I think the economy kind of killed that off temporarily. :| I think they have a little work on it done, but..
Ground Zero Mosque - Horusmaster - 2010-07-19
the Al-Qaeda is a small branch of the Muslim religion, that's probably not going to be the branch in the Mosque, just like protestants and catholics. They don't want to be identified as the same group.
Ground Zero Mosque - Hazzy - 2010-07-19
Erich Wrote:And at above, I think the economy kind of killed that off temporarily.
That doesn't explain the 7 years of no progress. Even then, this is the kind of thing Roosevelt used to revitalize the economy. Building it now would be a good thing. It takes more than a dozen people to build a skyscraper.
Ground Zero Mosque - TøbiasBlack - 2010-07-19
Hazzy Wrote:That doesn't explain the 7 years of no progress. Even then, this is the kind of thing Roosevelt used to revitalize the economy. Building it now would be a good thing. It takes more than a dozen people to build a skyscraper.
Public Works program, yes.
"Come support your nation, help Rebuild 'Ground Zero!' Workers who help restore this landmark will be given fair compensation and paid a good wage."
Ground Zero Mosque - madanthony - 2010-07-19
Jon Stewart has a better answer to this than me.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-7-2010/wish-you-weren-t-here
Starts around 3:00
And I've seen that guy talk about atheism. He really makes my blood boil.
Ground Zero Mosque - DeanNim - 2010-07-19
Spoiler
^ if it turns into a religion discussion then go ahead and close this thread.
Ground Zero Mosque - endomorphin - 2010-07-19
Man, I love Pat. I must have watched each of his videos at least twice.
I know he's preaching to the choir and all that, but sh`it, it's good entertainment.
Ground Zero Mosque - Moonlapse - 2010-07-20
Dean, Why are you even listening to people like this on youtube? Youtube is home to the worst idealogical wingnuts (both liberal and conservative) on the planet. In my opinion you would be better off browsing opinion journals you enjoy.
My opinion on the general intelligence of the youtube community
Ground Zero Mosque - Katie - 2010-07-21
Youtube reminds me of the jerk offs on chatroulette. It's just another place full of retarded people.
Ground Zero Mosque - Erich - 2010-07-21
Should they be allowed to build mosques: yes. Should they be allowed to build a mosque at ground zero? No. The terrorists fu'cked that one up pretty big. Don't blame us, go kill them yourselves.
Ground Zero Mosque - 4everhated - 2010-07-21
Erich Wrote:I guarantee the Muslims who proposed this mosque aren't the "good" faithful Muslims, but the more corrupted and terroristic Muslims we all know and hate..
Do you have insider knowledge? How can you make this spineless grantee? It only makes sense that by building the mosque, the people want to put their religion on a stage where people can see the truth of their beliefs, and put down the stereotypes and the ill intentions of the extremest.
Quote:Should they be allowed to build mosques: yes. Should they be allowed to build a mosque at ground zero? No. The terrorists fu'cked that one up pretty big. Don't blame us, go kill them yourselves.
You're basically punishing a classroom because a student decided to break the rules and misbehave. Last time I check, my country had a separation of church and state (religion should not have a political effect on our leader's decisions). Palin's comments are comical.
Ground Zero Mosque - Erich - 2010-07-21
4everhated Wrote:Do you have insider knowledge? How can you make this spineless grantee? It only makes sense that by building the mosque, the people want to put their religion on a stage where people can see the truth of their beliefs, and put down the stereotypes and the ill intentions of the extremest.
You're basically punishing a classroom because a student decided to break the rules and misbehave. Last time I check, my country had a separation of church and state (religion should not have a political effect on our leader's decisions). Palin's comments are comical.
Have you ever seen how this world works? it isn't ethical but it happens. I don't believe in it, but it happens. Do I think every muslim is a terrorist? No. It isn't a punishment by not building a mosque on ground zero, build it somewhere else in NYC. It's gigantic. We lost something and people, and it was because of people who interpreted their religion the wrong way. It's denying us rights by giving them something they can have everywhere else but here. I do agree there is a problem with people against mosques. But I don't think it's just the time for that to happen. Should they have the right? yes. Are they allowed? No. Sound familiar? @ civil rights movement. It took decades. It very well might take decades thanks to southern hicks yet again. Plus, we're still at war with Al Quida, and I don't trust the government enough to really think they'll let this happen while a few muslims want to kill our country. Should the rest be punished? No. Will it happen? Probably.
Ground Zero Mosque - TøbiasBlack - 2010-07-21
4everhated Wrote:You're basically punishing a classroom because a student decided to break the rules and misbehave. Last time I check, my country had a separation of church and state (religion should not have a political effect on our leader's decisions). Palin's comments are comical.
thats how it works. because of 9/11 airline as well as overall security measures have increased in their strictness; after columbine theres been a zero-tolerance initiative with schools and school-related violence; after a few shipments of food are contaminated and making people sick the entire line of that food is recalled from the place where it came, same as with toys and baby carriers if they prove to be harmful.
seperation of church and state is also irrelevant. its a matter of respect. they want to undermine the affect that the terrorist attacks had on the american psyche by building a mosque near the site? do you see the struggles that go on about the dome of the roq (spelled right?) and where it is located? where a building is set has a lot of effect on the world around it, and you can just look at a Wal-Mart for that how it kills any nearby small businesses.
Ground Zero Mosque - 4everhated - 2010-07-21
Erich Wrote:Have you ever seen how this world works? it isn't ethical but it happens.
That's not reasonable logic. As Americans we are proud to be among the few who fight the norm and combat the wrong, even though it is plentiful and easy to succumb to.
Quote: I don't believe in it, but it happens. Do I think every muslim is a terrorist? No. It isn't a punishment by not building a mosque on ground zero, build it somewhere else in NYC. It's gigantic. We lost something and people, and it was because of people who interpreted their religion the wrong way. It's denying us rights by giving them something they can have everywhere else but here.
What rights?
Quote:I do agree there is a problem with people against mosques. But I don't think it's just the time for that to happen. Should they have the right? yes. Are they allowed? No. Sound familiar? @ civil rights movement. It took decades. It very well might take decades thanks to southern hicks yet again. Plus, we're still at war with Al Quida, and I don't trust the government enough to really think they'll let this happen while a few muslims want to kill our country. Should the rest be punished? No. Will it happen? Probably.
Al Quida is not building this mosque, lol. And yes, it's sad that it took so long to free slaves and give them the rights and opportunities all humans deserve, but this doesn't mean we should mark our calenders and refuse something perfectly legal and just to people who call NYC their home, because people of their own faith went coocoo.
TøbiasBlack Wrote:thats how it works.
Again, another incorrect ideology.
Quote: because of 9/11 airline as well as overall security measures have increased in their strictness; after columbine theres been a zero-tolerance initiative with schools and school-related violence; after a few shipments of food are contaminated and making people sick the entire line of that food is recalled from the place where it came, same as with toys and baby carriers if they prove to be harmful.
You are mixing up different things and labeling them the same. School, Airports, imported good (the list goes on), are all items where if they were tainted with or not secured properly, we would be in danger. A building in NYC, NY or Chico, California can equally harbor good or bad people if people choose to act wrongly, and if our nation was unable to discover their wrong intentions. I would probably find it stupid and down right unintelligent if terrorists planned to use this already controversial location with much attention to do anything wrong, or to meet up and plan schemes. Normal mosques in the US are surveillance and scrutinized already, I'm sure a mosque in NYC, in ground zero would be more than safely surveillance.
Quote:seperation of church and state is also irrelevant. its a matter of respect. they want to undermine the affect that the terrorist attacks had on the american psyche by building a mosque near the site? do you see the struggles that go on about the dome of the roq (spelled right?) and where it is located? where a building is set has a lot of effect on the world around it, and you can just look at a Wal-Mart for that how it kills any nearby small businesses.
How is separation of church and state irrelevant? When politicians debate why this is or is not right for America, the state is meddling with religious affairs. Matter of respect? If you and I were best buddies, and my cousin happened to sucker punch your brother, am I no longer invited to your dinner party? The people who seek to build the mosque have no connection with terrorist plotters, or these ties would have been unearthed by now. Again, the place will be full of cameras and surveillance in case any fishy business does occur. There is no undermining of any events, Muslim leaders all over the US have condemned the attacks as violations to their beliefs , they stand with their country against the extremists.
The single most holy place for a group of people and another building of worship is incomparable. You cannot visit Vegas and claim you've seen the world's monuments (they have miniatures), it doesn't make sense. Wal-mart is a business. You are comparing so many things with so many other things, it doesn't deliver sufficient argument.
Ground Zero Mosque - TøbiasBlack - 2010-07-21
4everhated Wrote:Again, another incorrect ideology.
please enlighten me. whether or not you think its right, which it isnt in a moral and 'fair' standpoint ill concede, thats the way of the world: the many must suffer the effects and evils of the few. WWII was sparked from an economic crisis. Hitler rallied the people and attempted to exterminate the german jewish population as a whole because a few were able to stay wealthy after WWI.
what you're not getting is cause and effect. something happens, and a result is sparked. you say im comparing apples to oranges yet im telling you that if something bad happens to one, it affects the whole. cancer in a part of your body? hi chemo, which from what ive heard is a nightmare on your system.
' Wrote:You are mixing up different things and labeling them the same. School, Airports, imported good (the list goes on), are all items where if they were tainted with or not secured properly, we would be in danger. A building in NYC, NY or Los Angeles *(edited for impact reasons(you use a major city and then a minor unheard of one? i can see the reasoning, but i dont like it myself)), California can equally harbor good or bad people if people choose to act wrongly, and if our nation was unable to discover their wrong intentions. I would probably find it stupid and down right unintelligent if terrorists planned to use this already controversial location with much attention to do anything wrong, or to meet up and plan schemes. Normal mosques in the US are surveillance and scrutinized already, I'm sure a mosque in NYC, in ground zero would be more than safely surveillance.
see above about cause and effect.
but you're saying that anyone is capable of evil no matter what. you're right insofar that yes people can committ crime(s), but youre generalizing all crimes that occur by saying that anyone is capable of evil -> anyone can hijack a plane and crash it into the side of a building. now that is comparing apples to oranges.
and yeah youre right, mosques are kept under scrutiny because the events that occured made the world more aware of islam, and media always leaps to the negative sides of anything like a homeless man to a sandwich. this is the unfortunate implications of the incident: islam is treated as a terrorist religion as a whole because of a few extremists. personally, i don't agree with the negative air that the belief is getting/has gotten, but its the way of the world.
' Wrote:How is separation of church and state irrelevant? When politicians debate why this is or is not right for America, the state is meddling with religious affairs. Matter of respect? If you and I were best buddies, and my cousin happened to sucker punch your brother, am I no longer invited to your dinner party? The people who seek to build the mosque have no connection with terrorist plotters, or these ties would have been unearthed by now. Again, the place will be full of cameras and surveillance in case any fishy business does occur. There is no undermining of any events, Muslim leaders all over the US have condemned the attacks as violations to their beliefs , they stand with their country against the extremists.
The single most holy place for a group of people and another building of worship is incomparable. You cannot visit Vegas and claim you've seen the world's monuments (they have miniatures), it doesn't make sense. Wal-mart is a business. You are comparing so many things with so many other things, it doesn't deliver sufficient argument.
firstly, don't make an assumption of anyone, it makes an ass of you and me. in that bolded scenario, ill give you two examples that i think make the most sense: personally, id forgive you because you cant control what your cousin does, so you'd still be allowed, but id tell your cousin to get the hell out; reasonably: id demand you make your cousin apologize, but i wouldn't tell you you weren't allowed over because of the aforementioned. you cannot control what a person does to that extent to prevent evil. but again, you miss the severity: a punch to a sibling is excuseable and forgiveable on your end, but it does shed some questioning on your families methods of raising children that one would suddenly lash out at someone for no given reason as per your example. punching a relative =/= destroying two(+) buildings, damaging another, and killing hundreds of innocent civilians.
the connection between the plotters and the ones seeking to build a mosque is the very essence of that mosque: islam. that is the sole binding fact, that the extremist cell will claim themselves to be islamic and declare their attack a jihad on america. nothing more, nothing less.
and have you even ever been inside of a church/synagouge(sp)/mosque? how can you be 100% positive that there will be security cameras inside? the practitioners would see that as an invasion of privacy.
its undermining in that its basically telling everyone who knows of it that "yes, we know hundreds died from an extremist group of muslims, but we want to build a mosque near where the attack occured." i can understand the logic behind the location: it'd be in sight a lot more and draw potential converts more readily than if it were elsewhere, but public outcry is evidence enough of how little this is seen as a respect to those that died. its like if i were to go to a funeral of a friend's relative, and try to hook up with one of the hot females that worked at the funeral home. theres just a code of unwritten ethics that you abide, and you respect the dead, which is a tradition that can be traced back for centuries.
and for your last paragraph, once again: see above for cause and effect.