DrK's gungnir effect sucks, and a random cross chain glitch

so apparently... gungnir grabs your hp, multiplies it by 1.1, and adds it to your damage, as evidenced by these screenshots, note that my range is affected by some weird effects, the numbers are:


range: 13787-15119
gungnir: 312% damage
elementalism: +10% range/total damage
gungnir reinforce: 20% total damage
18% of the highest accuracy to damage: 1946 accuracy, translates to: +350 damage (shows on range)

so my true range is:
(range-350)*100/110=

(13437-14769)*100/110
12215-13426

hp w/o HB=62203 (+68423 dmg)
hp w/e HB=85529 (+94081 dmg)

last pact grants 1.51 multiplier, doesn't show in range.
i have 91% mastery
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my damage with gungnir, no HB, last pact:
range*1.51*3.12*1.3+68423+350
143584-151001

observed damage: 144737

damage with gungnir, with HB, last pact:
range*1.51*3.12*1.3+94081+350
169242-176659

observed damage: 169858-170793

if gungnir were total damage, the formula would be
range*1.51*3.12*2.4+350, this gives (with HB) a result of:
137528-152156

this number does not match.

so yea, pineapple gungnir, thanks a lot nexon, and now @JoeTang; you sure it worked differently in NKR? because losing 110% total damage is gonna hurt your charts hard


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the glitch: every time your HP changes and cross chain isn't active, cross's effect will activate for a split second.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

so yea, pineapple gungnir, thanks a lot nexon, and now @JoeTang; you sure it worked differently in NKR? because losing 110% total damage is gonna hurt your charts hard

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I hope it's different in KMS, but the chances of that being the case is close to zero. :f4:

By the way, how did we come to the total damage conclusion in the first place? We did consider that this was the effect of Gungnir's Descent before we settled on the total damage effect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iVege

I hope it's different in KMS, but the chances of that being the case is close to zero. :f4:

By the way, how did we come to the total damage conclusion in the first place? We did consider that this was the effect of Gungnir's Descent before we settled on the total damage effect.

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we supposedly got the results from KMS, either locked or JT i believe, which is one of the reasons why i quoted JT.

I don't know much about the endgame bosses (because I'm a wuss when it comes to bosses) but if this deters people from making a drk because they are weaker in terms of damage, that's ok I guess. I don't like to be that person (a jerk) but I might as well find out more about the bosses if this deters people from Gollux. :s

I honestly have no clue how I got the conclusion that it adds Total Damage now, since it was so long ago. I believe tests were done in KMST, and something may have changed then, or the damage increase from HP compared to range were extremely similar to what an equivalent total damage increase would be. I've tested it again on Phantom, and after 15 tries, I finally got it to roll the expected range to be a +HP value. It is definitely not total damage.

I am pineappleing retarded and I apologize.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeTang

I honestly have no clue how I got the conclusion that it adds Total Damage now, since it was so long ago. I believe tests were done in KMST, and something may have changed then, or the damage increase from HP compared to range were extremely similar to what an equivalent total damage increase would be. I've tested it again on Phantom, and after 15 tries, I finally got it to roll the expected range to be a +HP value. It is definitely not total damage.

I am pineappleing retarded and I apologize.

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pomegranate happens so it's allright, there's also some weird as pineapple thing going on with critical damage (scholtex brought this to my attention) but we haven't figured if it's one of our skills or our equips or what. using SE seemed to raise our min crit while taking off crit rings reduced our max crit or something like that

this gungnir thing annoys me greatly though, because now it's fairly probable that heroes are gonna be above us, at least bossingwise, and i wanted those suckers to rot for some time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

using SE seemed to raise our min crit while taking off crit rings reduced our max crit or something like that.

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Iirc the base dark knight skills plus ring end up with min crit being higher than max, something like 160 min 150 max. Depending how Nexon handles that, it's possible it's actually doing 150~160% of base damage, so SE raises the max to 160 and gives 160~160, while removing the crit ring drops min by 10 and gives 150~150.

Been a bit since I accounted for all the stuff that goes into my DrK's range though, crit in particular, and looks like this week I'm playing Zero. Maybe in the New Year I'll get a chance to see what's up with Dark Knights.

\o/ 6% min crit by Hayato card.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

pomegranate happens so it's allright, there's also some weird as pineapple thing going on with critical damage (scholtex brought this to my attention) but we haven't figured if it's one of our skills or our equips or what. using SE seemed to raise our min crit while taking off crit rings reduced our max crit or something like that

this gungnir thing annoys me greatly though, because now it's fairly probable that heroes are gonna be above us, at least bossingwise, and i wanted those suckers to rot for some time.

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Heroes and pallys can't hell gollux eyes for shiiiit. @HeroDDC; switched from pally to drk specifically for this boss.

Would this also mean washing your hp means more damage for dark knights :f6:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by holycow

Would this also mean washing your hp means more damage for dark knights :f6:

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yes, nowhere near worth it, washing to 500k hp would mean just 550k more damage per line, the cost is NOWHERE near worth it. and the effectivenes of elixirs would go down the drain, you'd need 1 just to be on the very edge of berzerk's (last pact) range

i'm still checking this to be sure i'm right, but i'm putting it on hiatus for a few days, while i make some mules and stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

yes, nowhere near worth it, washing to 500k hp would mean just 550k more damage per line, the cost is NOWHERE near worth it. and the effectivenes of elixirs would go down the drain, you'd need 1 just to be on the very edge of berzerk's (last pact) range

i'm still checking this to be sure i'm right, but i'm putting it on hiatus for a few days, while i make some mules and stuff.

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Well, I might just convert my hp washed hero into a dark knight.. not that much hp boost but still something :f2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

last pact grants 1.51 multiplier, doesn't show in range.

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Haha, I was wondering about that - I looked through my skills for things that would be useful training and thought "oh, 11% damage on lv.10 Final Pact... time to pay 17mil and max it" and didn't see any change in range. So it's actually exactly like Berserk, a damage bonus above x HP which doesn't show in your range? (well I say exact but it's 30% less damage)



Do you have any advice for activating the actual Final Pact effect? Like, where it's even possible without sacrificing your damage? If I attack business as usual, I heal so often I don't need potions to avoid dying. And the mob count seems to be tricky to pull off inside Hilla and other DR bosses where it would be possible to kill yourself.

postscript I wish Final Pact could hotkey so I could see a cooldown... but I don't know that it doesn't add a buff like Roar used to, cause I haven't managed to die yet.



p.p.s. cross chain is pretty strong defensively too; once I'm under 15k hp nothing can even hurt me short of Twilight Perion Golems (not that I'd know since my Dark Knight's 18x).

p.p.p.s. still haven't paid to max Gungnir's Descent or Sacrifice; getting strong Dark Side vibes off of em. Also they cost money. Also I need to inner ability my way towards a longer Sacrifice. Also I wish Sacrifice didn't destroy the Beholder, and just had a regular cooldown. But hey. Recasting Beholder's not the worst thing ever.


I will say though that this is the first time in a long time I've been interested in playing my Dark Knight. I don't even remember the last time I trained it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stereo

Do you have any advice for activating the actual Final Pact effect? Like, where it's even possible without sacrificing your damage? If I attack business as usual, I heal so often I don't need potions to avoid dying. And the mob count seems to be tricky to pull off inside Hilla and other DR bosses where it would be possible to kill yourself.

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Isn't that a good thing, though? An easy way to die would be to attack them during DR. You shouldn't have any trouble clearing the Final Pact counter whilst invincible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stereo

postscript I wish Final Pact could hotkey so I could see a cooldown... but I don't know that it doesn't add a buff like Roar used to, cause I haven't managed to die yet.

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Yeah, I'd prefer a buff over the hourglass that we have now. I don't like how duration and cooldown is differentiated simply by a larger and a smaller hourglass (respectively).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stereo

p.p.p.s. still haven't paid to max Gungnir's Descent or Sacrifice; getting strong Dark Side vibes off of em. Also they cost money. Also I need to inner ability my way towards a longer Sacrifice. Also I wish Sacrifice didn't destroy the Beholder, and just had a regular cooldown. But hey. Recasting Beholder's not the worst thing ever.

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It's cooler that way, I guess. It's kinda dumb, though, when all you do after summoning Beholder is Sacrificing it.

And no, recasting Beholder isn't the worst thing ever, but waiting for Hex is. How can I get around that issue? It takes the Beholder over 10 seconds to buff me after I summon it, so even with 60 second Sacrifice, I can't spam Gungnir's Descent all the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iVege

It takes the Beholder over 10 seconds to buff me after I summon it, so even with 60 second Sacrifice, I can't spam Gungnir's Descent all the time.

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Creative cooldown management... I cast sacrifice when Beholder comes off cooldown (like, the last tick that takes ~4 seconds), and then once I'm in the rhythm of Gungnir I reactivate Beholder. I suppose you lose one Gungnir during the Beholder's cast time but it's easier to keep Beholder's buff around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stereo

Creative cooldown management... I cast sacrifice when Beholder comes off cooldown (like, the last tick that takes ~4 seconds), and then once I'm in the rhythm of Gungnir I reactivate Beholder. I suppose you lose one Gungnir during the Beholder's cast time but it's easier to keep Beholder's buff around.

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I don't get how that works, because Sacrifice should already be ending by the time Beholder's out of cooldown. Then you wait for an extended period of time until Hex comes back and you use Sacrifice again.

Your method should only work for one cycle. Beholder cancels Sacrifice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stereo

Haha, I was wondering about that - I looked through my skills for things that would be useful training and thought "oh, 11% damage on lv.10 Final Pact... time to pay 17mil and max it" and didn't see any change in range. So it's actually exactly like Berserk, a damage bonus above x HP which doesn't show in your range? (well I say exact but it's 30% less damage)



Do you have any advice for activating the actual Final Pact effect? Like, where it's even possible without sacrificing your damage? If I attack business as usual, I heal so often I don't need potions to avoid dying. And the mob count seems to be tricky to pull off inside Hilla and other DR bosses where it would be possible to kill yourself.

postscript I wish Final Pact could hotkey so I could see a cooldown... but I don't know that it doesn't add a buff like Roar used to, cause I haven't managed to die yet.



p.p.s. cross chain is pretty strong defensively too; once I'm under 15k hp nothing can even hurt me short of Twilight Perion Golems (not that I'd know since my Dark Knight's 18x).

p.p.p.s. still haven't paid to max Gungnir's Descent or Sacrifice; getting strong Dark Side vibes off of em. Also they cost money. Also I need to inner ability my way towards a longer Sacrifice. Also I wish Sacrifice didn't destroy the Beholder, and just had a regular cooldown. But hey. Recasting Beholder's not the worst thing ever.


I will say though that this is the first time in a long time I've been interested in playing my Dark Knight. I don't even remember the last time I trained it.

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in order:

yup, it seems to work EXACTLY the same (still need to test this a bit though, gotta level my new DrK) but so far seems that way.

keep attacking during reflect (if you're confident that you won't die in other ways) reincarnating allows you to bypass DR and deal damage, so on stuff like regular hilla (or empress, if you don't fear anything else of her) for example, it's a great DPS boost. the cooldown for the skill seems to be 9-ish minutes though according to scholtex i need to test this myself but according to him it seems to be:
9-ish mins if you don't die again during the CD, actual CD if you die yet again while the skill was on CD
if i understood him right. either way the CD is wonky and i don't recommend going gung-ho with the skill self-killing yourself until that's figured out completely

on bosses that can kill you without a moment's notice, i'd rather just go full DPS (watching out for stuff like DR) until the OHKO me (hard hilla, akyrum) and then just spam them like nuts, in hilla's case i haven't fought her more than once, but i think waiting for the CD of reincarnation to be better than going back in, since she'll heal and do other stuff if you go back in.

mob count doesn't matter, hitting a boss counts for the counter, you need a combination of 20 mobs killed and 20 hits on a boss to guarantee revival, so you could just spam gungnir on the boss and you'll be fine, or in hilla (due to the towers that pull you) you can do lamancha on her for charging the counter fast, then go with gungnir.

i wish final pact worked like that too, but alas ._. a symbol on a corner would be very nice too.

waiting for hex is annoying, it just takes so long to cast it. i tend to recast all my skills every time i gotta wait for hex

edit: it's nicer to wait for hex when you don't have buff duration, since you can just cast beholder, wait for 20 seconds (you'll get your hex here) then sac and spam for the next 40 seconds, and repeat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iVege

I don't get how that works, because Sacrifice should already be ending by the time Beholder's out of cooldown. Then you wait for an extended period of time until Hex comes back and you use Sacrifice again.

Your method should only work for one cycle. Beholder cancels Sacrifice.

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Ah, makes sense. I don't have the duration buffs to see what Sacrifice is like when it outlasts Beholder's cooldown.


Which way are you guys going on Hypers? My current plan is to skip HB length, HB mp, Final Pact cooldown, and either HB hp or Gungnir ignore def. I suppose I could theoretically have 100% crit without Final Pact crit too, not sure what the gap there is. (seems like I have 60% on my own, 70% with Phantom's link, 80% with the crit hyper, so as-is 100% with the Final Pact hyper)