KThxBaiNao No longer with Nexon

[maplefreak26]

I think it's safe to say at this point after what KTBN said on his AMAA stream that he was booted because he essentially became an avenue for players unhappy with their response from Customer Support to get a second look at their situation, and he wasn't allowed to do that (as he said it was "loosely against the new terms") based on his renewed contract (since he was now "working on behalf of Nexon" b/c telecommuting instead of "working as a Nexon employee" before he moved up to Washington) which would explain why there was (and is) an Associate Community Manager* job opening for MapleStory at the time. And from what I can understand from his choice words, he may have been a bit too direct this time around (as he says "I didn't go through any approval process [for a decision KTBN thought was best for the community], this was just a [descision] that I made entirely on my own. This is what needs to happen in this situation, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to do something for the community because this is just ridiculous, right? Something needs to be done.") And he says that he has been doing "this" for the past year (and afaik, he's the only Nexon CM (excl. Girasol but she's not a CM) in recent memory to directly help with player's support issues this past year) and that no one ever stopped him, and that he may have stepped on too many toes along the way. "Some people didn't agree with my decision."

If I had to guess, the complaint made against him probably came from whoever is running Customer Support and didn't like that someone who was remotely working and wasn't even technically a Nexon employee and wasn't even from the CS department was directing what others should do. Or it might've come from the NxA MapleStory production team, but I don't really think that's the case since he said that they came to him when they needed help with something b/c of his knowledge with the game. I also don't think it was coming from OneLetter/the Community team since they would've stopped him long ago and I don't think OneLetter would let that happen for so long without knowing about it. He would've probably gotten a stern warning instead of a knee jerk reaction if it did come from the latter two.

And there was a bit kerfuffle with the updated forum rules when OneLetter reposted the rules where people claim to have said that the bit where it said that CMs can't help with support requests didn't exist in KTBN's forum rules when the new forums just launched. But when OneLetter replied to someone claiming that he just copied+pasted what was already there, the same minute that he posted that response to Aggraphine on the official forums (Dec. 9th 10:24AM), KTBN's forum rules were edited/updated by Sabina on Dec. 9th 10:24AM as well. So unless someone has an unmodified, archived copy of the rules, we won't really know.

* IIRC all new Community Managers hired by OneLetter (so not including MissMurder/MysteryMask, Artasi, and Sabina, I think) were all Associate Community Managers. So don't read too much in the Associate part in the job opening. OneLetter joined Nexon mid 2015. And the three listed above transferred in/were hired before that.

[SaptaZapta]

That's not how I understand what he said on that AMAA stream.

Sounds to me more like he logged into a GM/privileged/secure account to do something (unban someone? issue compensation? maybe just investigate accounts or game logs) which is only allowed inside the Nexon building and is not exactly a CM's job even there. He has said in the past that all he can do when helping someone with issues that Customer Support brushed off, was to tell a GM "look into it again". I guess sometimes he looked into it first and then came to the GMs with the evidence all prepared. But he failed to notice that his new teleworking contract specifically forbade it. (Why didn't they have such access blocked? I don't know, it's Nexon...)

To me, that sort of thing makes more sense as a reason for an instant dismissal than the Chief of CS having had enough of this guy telling his people what to do. The CM doesn't even have the authority to tell them what to do, he was asking favors (so he said in the past), and especially with him outside the building, they could easily have just told him to pineapple off.



What I found more interesting about the AMAA was that he still claims that Nexon cares about the players (or, he corrected himself, that there are people there who care, although "caring can only go so far" or words to that effect), and that he believes they're doing what's right for the game and the community. No way of knowing whether he truly believes all that or is saying it because he doesn't want to hurt his chances of working in the industry again. He did say he majored in Political Science. I believe lying with a straight face is a required course in that curriculum...

[Ivangold]

Well, it seens that he was doing things he shouldn't, even tought he was hepling the comunity, a mapler who wanted the game to get better and get the position it really deserve, i guess he knew from the start he was going to leave, just seeying the name as he quicky come and leave without doing too much...yet he was doing a lot.

Well the costumer service does need to improve, but honestly how's in KMS? How is the company, how's the tranparency, how's the costume service, the maintences? I wonder why some things they can't copy(things from there if it's so sucessfull there.
I guess nexon see as a wast of money to get more people and/or use more money to fix things in the game, even tought it's a investment, they could make GMS run just as much as KMS, but it won't if it stay like this...

[SaptaZapta]

Well, it seens that he was doing things he shouldn't, even tought he was hepling the comunity, a mapler who wanted the game to get better and get the position it really deserve, i guess he knew from the start he was going to leave, just seeying the name as he quicky come and leave without doing too much...yet he was doing a lot.

The "KThxBaiNao" name has been his game name since he was 12 or so. He didn't select it specifically for the CM job.

[Spadow]

Well the costumer service does need to improve, but honestly how's in KMS? How is the company, how's the tranparency, how's the costume service, the maintences? I wonder why some things they can't copy(things from there if it's so sucessfull there.
I guess nexon see as a wast of money to get more people and/or use more money to fix things in the game, even tought it's a investment, they could make GMS run just as much as KMS, but it won't if it stay like this...

The key difference is culture. Korean culture is different from American culture. You cannot copy that.

[KhainiWest]

The context you guys arent picking up on, or haven't pointed out is, it wasn't necessarily what he did, but how he reacted when questioned about it. He didn't go through the proper channels is one thing, that's just disrespect towards procedure, enough to get terminated? Probably not considering its something he has exercised in the past. "stepping on too many toes", is another matter entirely and eludes to the truth of what happened.

He got let go because he was disrespectful to authority and put his own righteousness above his professionalism, that's what happened and that's what he eludes to vaguely with "the tipping point".

[KThxBaiNao]

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but it's incredibly inaccurate. I was let go for a decision I made to help out the community. It wasn't compensation related, and it did not require and GM access or anything. I didn't make any changes to anyone's account.

I was not disrespectful to authority, and did not put my own righteousness above my professionalism. Had I done that, I would have been let go a long time ago. When I say "stepping on too many toes" I meant that there were some things that I pushed really hard and wouldn't stop bringing up until something was done about it. I didn't let things fall off my plate, and that can sometimes rub people the wrong way.

[SaptaZapta]

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but it's incredibly inaccurate. I was let go for a decision I made to help out the community. It wasn't compensation related, and it did not require and GM access or anything. I didn't make any changes to anyone's account.

I was not disrespectful to authority, and did not put my own righteousness above my professionalism. Had I done that, I would have been let go a long time ago. When I say "stepping on too many toes" I meant that there were some things that I pushed really hard and wouldn't stop bringing up until something was done about it. I didn't let things fall off my plate, and that can sometimes rub people the wrong way.

Welcome to Southperry, KThxBaiNao

How does one push for things in ways that a contract does not allow, and in a single action that could have not been done if you'd stopped to think about it?
Did you email someone too far above your station? Contact the dev team directly? Talk to someone outside the company (such as whoever they're renting GMs from)?

[KhainiWest]

I was requested to leave it alone, sorry peeps

[tecul1]

honestly why does it matter

either the cm will be completely incompetent or be fired within 6 weeks is how i see it

[Astaroth]

I was requested to leave it alone, sorry peeps

I saw your edit, and it goes directly with what Sapta mentioned before

I'm assuming all the details you've received come from people in and around Nexon, so you've only heard one side.

You're taking the information of 1 person as a fact, unless that person is directly involved in HR management the chances are whoever you're talking to is just speculating or giving you a biased side, HR doesn't round up all employees to fire one person, only HR, OneLetter and KTBN know exactly why it happened.

Either way you shouldn't take information from one side as if it was a fact, specially when you're told the information is wrong, at least entertain the possibility your source doesn't know all the details.

[byakugan]

The key difference is culture. Korean culture is different from American culture. You cannot copy that.

Is it correct to say that, in Korea, games are seen as another social media? as a platform to interact with real people?

At the same time I would say the rest of the world still sees games as just that, games, something innanimate where their actions have no consecuences or simply don't matter, no matter how many real people are part of it.

[KhainiWest]

I saw your edit, and it goes directly with what Sapta mentioned before



You're taking the information of 1 person as a fact, unless that person is directly involved in HR management the chances are whoever you're talking to is just speculating or giving you a biased side, HR doesn't round up all employees to fire one person, only HR, OneLetter and KTBN know exactly why it happened.

Either way you shouldn't take information from one side as if it was a fact, specially when you're told the information is wrong, at least entertain the possibility your source doesn't know all the details.

He wasn't honest on his stream and I'm so angry right now because only a few people know the details is EXACTLY WHY I CAN"T OUTRIGHT STATE THEM.

You're wrong, and shame on all of you who are questioning my integrity when I've been feeding you guys LEGITIMATE information for years now.

[SaptaZapta]

He wasn't even honest as to why he left the f`ucking state to washington. What you guys don't understand is his entire stream was fu`cking lies, and I'm so angry right now because only a few people know the details is EXACTLY WHY I CAN"T OUTRIGHT STATE THEM.

You're wrong, and shame on all of you who are questioning my integrity when I've been feeding you guys LEGITIMATE information for years now.

We're not questioning your integrity, we're questioning your source's integrity.
Has it ever occurred to you that they might have their own agenda and be using you to spread misinformation?
(Not saying I believe every word of KThxBaiNao's. Much of what he said doesn't add up.)

Anyway, it doesn't really matter and we'll never really know what exactly happened and who's lying more.
All that matters is what happens now: will the next CM be a useless bureaucrat who does nothing beyond posting maintenance notices and running forum events that look like a 13-year-old's first post ("What's everybody's favorite class?"), or will they want to and be able to accomplish anything to improve the game and the relationship between Nexon and the community? (You might say such an improvement is impossible regardless, in which case, none of this discussion matters in the least).

Meanwhile, they're going to be streaming answers to questions about the V update and 5th job tomorrow. I expect that to be at least as amusing and meme-productive as the "mana pots for Kinesis' PP" stream.
Or maybe not. They seem to be taking questions ahead of time so maybe they just won't answer what they don't know.
The big question is: do they know what it is they don't know? Or will this be full of "pro tips" like the mistaken one they kept pushing through the micro-site and the event notes, about burning your character at level 2 or 5, or maybe 11 (when the event requires you to burn it at creation)?
Tune in and see.

[Grey]

We're not questioning your integrity, we're questioning your source's integrity.
Has it ever occurred to you that they might have their own agenda and be using you to spread misinformation?
(Not saying I believe every word of KThxBaiNao's. Much of what he said doesn't add up.)

I don't know about that. I can't say I know what happened, but I don't think it accomplishes much to use him as an avenue to spread misinformation, mostly because well, no one should have known about this outside of him anyway, plus he's banned from like every Maple community except here, and we're widely known to be Nexon haters, so why would the community at large trust anything he said to begin with?

[KhainiWest]

We're not questioning your integrity, we're questioning your source's integrity.
Has it ever occurred to you that they might have their own agenda and be using you to spread misinformation?
(Not saying I believe every word of KThxBaiNao's. Much of what he said doesn't add up.)

Anyway, it doesn't really matter and we'll never really know what exactly happened and who's lying more.
All that matters is what happens now: will the next CM be a useless bureaucrat who does nothing beyond posting maintenance notices and running forum events that look like a 13-year-old's first post ("What's everybody's favorite class?"), or will they want to and be able to accomplish anything to improve the game and the relationship between Nexon and the community? (You might say such an improvement is impossible regardless, in which case, none of this discussion matters in the least).

Question, when was the last time that you saw KthxBai stream on behalf of Nexon America

EDIT: anyone can answer this, if you could, link the video

[SaptaZapta]

I don't know about that. I can't say I know what happened, but I don't think it accomplishes much to use him as an avenue to spread misinformation, mostly because well, no one should have known about this outside of him anyway, plus he's banned from like every Maple community except here, and we're widely known to be Nexon haters, so why would the community at large trust anything he said to begin with?

Precisely because we're known to be Nexon haters, if any of us posts elsewhere that "this time, Nexon is in the right", people would pay attention.

Question, when was the last time that you saw KthxBai stream on behalf of Nexon America

EDIT: anyone can answer this, if you could, link the video

November 17th. http://maplestory.nexon.net/micro-si...alendar-nov-17
It was a Q&A, no gameplay, I assume because he didn't have access to the test server from Washington.
I didn't actually watch it for more than 10 seconds.
The video doesn't seem to be archived on the channel.

[Eos]

Precisely because we're known to be Nexon haters

"misunderstood to be Nexon haters" is more accurate.
They just don't have the capacity to recognize anything that isn't groveling as positive.

[KhainiWest]

Precisely because we're known to be Nexon haters, if any of us posts elsewhere that "this time, Nexon is in the right", people would pay attention.



November 17th. http://maplestory.nexon.net/micro-si...alendar-nov-17
It was a Q&A, no gameplay, I assume because he didn't have access to the test server from Washington.
I didn't actually watch it for more than 10 seconds.
The video doesn't seem to be archived on the channel.

There is a reason the livestream isnt there anymore, and there's a reason why he hasn't DONE a livestream since then, and there is a reason why the last livestreamer didn't really understand the game that well. There is also a reason why he was immediately fired after that livestream with the blunder occurred.

This isn't a case of "Oh, I was being persistent on a problem!", how asinine does that sound to you? Even girasol who went against a direct buy to win feature had the choice to quit or not. And I'm not taking an aggressive tone or think you're in anyway support of this, I imagine you playing the devils advocate just so were clear on tone

I repeat: Nexon was in the right on this one, and goddamn does that smudge my reputation

[Astaroth]

"there is a reason why the last livestreamer didn't really understand the game that well"

Oh I know that one, he was the QA guy for Dragon Nest up until host transfer, so he doesn't have much experience with MS. Nexon pulled him and Saygo because they have done streams together before, for Dragon Nest and Atlantica.

...And because they have no one else to do it since the other CMs are busy, and by then KTBN's discharge was already a planned thing, his job position was open in Nexon's careers.