Terrorist attack kills 50 in Orlando, Florida

[SaptaZapta]

What hobby requires a machine gun or semi-automatic rifle?

Since you didn't answer my previous questions, I'll answer them for you:
1. The Boston Marathon bombers killed 3 people with their bombs.
2. In Paris, a total of 130 people were killed in a series of coordinated attacks. Exactly one was killed by explosives (despite there being four suicide bombers), and all the rest were shot by automatic weapons.
3. Bonus question: the three suicide bombers at the Brussels airport and metro station killed 32 victims.

I'm not saying explosives are anything to laugh at. But I am saying that they are far less effective than machine guns. You can glibly say, "This guy may have killed -less- people" as if it didn't matter, but we're talking a LOT less people. Human lives matter more than somebody's right to "collect" semi-automatic weapons.

[Flonne]

This particular slimeball had the psychological and background check and permit for his weapon and job as a security guard. The FBI investigated him - and cleared him. Which is why I said, before, that the whole reflex "we need gun control" response to a shooting is unwarranted in this case. Somebody seriously messed up, to allow this to happen, but it wasn't the legislators.

What gets me particularly angry about this is their investigation apparently did not bother to check in with his ex-wife at all, who told news teams yesterday that she broke up with him because he was physically abusive, UNSTABLE AND BIPOLAR, and prone to fits of rage. THEY GAVE A GUN AND SECURITY CLEARANCE TO A MAN WITH BIPOLAR ANGER ISSUES. The icing on the cake was that an official actually had the pineappleing gall to come out yesterday and say that they were not particularly disappointed with the job they did on their background check of him. Even if you think that, why in the absolute pineapple would you come out and SAY that, you pineappleing mongoloid. This is not on gun laws, this is 1000% on the pineappleing FBI not doing their pineappleing jobs and giving clearances out to a mentally ill, easily influenced person, every person involved in him being hired should be canned and probably thrown in jail, just like everyone involved in every other case like this, because at least then maybe they will take their pineappleing jobs a little more seriously.

[Satellite]

What gets me particularly angry about this is their investigation apparently did not bother to check in with his ex-wife at all, who told news teams yesterday that she broke up with him because he was physically abusive, UNSTABLE AND BIPOLAR, and prone to fits of rage. THEY GAVE A GUN AND SECURITY CLEARANCE TO A MAN WITH BIPOLAR ANGER ISSUES. The icing on the cake was that an official actually had the pineappleing gall to come out yesterday and say that they were not particularly disappointed with the job they did on their background check of him. Even if you think that, why in the absolute pineapple would you come out and SAY that, you pineappleing mongoloid. This is not on gun laws, this is 1000% on the pineappleing FBI not doing their pineappleing jobs and giving clearances out to a mentally ill, easily influenced person, every person involved in him being hired should be canned and probably thrown in jail, just like everyone involved in every other case like this, because at least then maybe they will take their pineappleing jobs a little more seriously.

Good example of this is the Germanwings crash, where the pilot was severely mentally ill, suicidal and the doctor had declared him unfit to work but no one realized to actually inform the airliner.

Here's my opinion: It's not only about the gun laws or only about islam/mental illness/insert other hateful ideology. It's both. If you look at countries with strict gun laws you can see that both A) These countries have less gun violence but B) Gun laws alone don't prevent crazy people from getting guns and shooting(or in other ways killing) up bunch of people. Gun laws don't magically solve the problem, but it's hell of a lot better than everyone, young or old walking around in military gear.

As for the role of Islam, this was teached in a mosque 2 months ago in Orlando:

[Flonne]

Good example of this is the Germanwings crash, where the pilot was severely mentally ill, suicidal and the doctor had declared him unfit to work but no one realized to actually inform the airliner.

Here's my opinion: It's not only about the gun laws or only about islam/mental illness/insert other hateful ideology. It's both. If you look at countries with strict gun laws you can see that both A) These countries have less gun violence but B) Gun laws alone don't prevent crazy people from getting guns and shooting(or in other ways killing) up bunch of people.

As for the role of Islam, this was teached in a mosque 2 months ago in Orlando:
-snip-

While I disagree with the stricter gun laws part (because they ARE generally strict aside from a few loopholes, the problem in this country is that they aren't FOLLOWED, people including the government themselves just pineappleing ignore the laws, if we just followed the laws we actually have in place we would be in a MUCH better place), I agree with the rest. The people that want weapons will get weapons no matter what, but we shouldn't give them pineappleing express lane tickets to those weapons by not following our own laws.

And as to the video, no matter how much proof is shown, even bringing that up is a one way ticket to being called a racist or anti-muslim by most everyone. They are calling this a hate crime scenario. I agree, it was a hate crime, but they are glazing over the part where it is a hate crime by an entire RELIGION that CONDONES THE CRIME IN THEIR OWN SACRED TEXTS. They are just saying it was one guy who happened to hate gay people and has no affiliation with anything even though he pledged himself to ISIS on Sunday over twitter.

One of his targets listed was Disney World anyway, so in the end he really just wanted to kill as many people as possible regardless of who they were, as long as they were Americans. The daughter of one of the families my parents go boating with and have been friends with for a while was IN Disney World at the time of the shooting. We actually just went to her high school graduation a couple weekends ago. If we keep allowing this pomegranate to happen eventually it's going to have a direct impact like that.

[ShinkuDragon]

While I disagree with the stricter gun laws part (because they ARE generally strict aside from a few loopholes, the problem in this country is that they aren't FOLLOWED, people including the government themselves just pineappleing ignore the laws, if we just followed the laws we actually have in place we would be in a MUCH better place), I agree with the rest. The people that want weapons will get weapons no matter what, but we shouldn't give them pineappleing express lane tickets to those weapons by not following our own laws.

And as to the video, no matter how much proof is shown, even bringing that up is a one way ticket to being called a racist or anti-muslim by most everyone. They are calling this a hate crime scenario. I agree, it was a hate crime, but they are glazing over the part where it is a hate crime by an entire RELIGION that CONDONES THE CRIME IN THEIR OWN SACRED TEXTS. They are just saying it was one guy who happened to hate gay people and has no affiliation with anything even though he pledged himself to ISIS on Sunday over twitter.

One of his targets listed was Disney World anyway, so in the end he really just wanted to kill as many people as possible regardless of who they were, as long as they were Americans. The daughter of one of the families my parents go boating with and have been friends with for a while was IN Disney World at the time of the shooting. We actually just went to her high school graduation a couple weekends ago. If we keep allowing this pomegranate to happen eventually it's going to have a direct impact like that.

biggest problem i see as an outsider, is that it's easier in the US to get a gun than a car (ignoring price)

back to the night club, i'd say the problem here wasn't really the gun, but the security, if he managed to get in with an automatic rifle (i actually haven't seen any source saying where the shooting began) then what the hell was security doing? forget an ISIS member, i wouldn't want anyone in a club where you can get alcohol to have any sort of knife or gun.

[Satellite]

And as to the video, no matter how much proof is shown, even bringing that up is a one way ticket to being called a racist or anti-muslim by most everyone. They are calling this a hate crime scenario. I agree, it was a hate crime, but they are glazing over the part where it is a hate crime by an entire RELIGION that CONDONES THE CRIME IN THEIR OWN SACRED TEXTS. They are just saying it was one guy who happened to hate gay people and has no affiliation with anything even though he pledged himself to ISIS on Sunday over twitter.

Worse. Not only are they denying it had anything to do with Islam, they're now blaming video game "gun culture" for it:

Spoiler

[xparasite9]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/ne...classma/nrfwW/
http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/shooter...y-dating-apps/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ple-there.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2672445
http://theweek.com/speedreads/630093...mar-mateen-gay
http://www.towleroad.com/2016/06/omar-mateen-gay/
http://moonbattery.com/?p=73184
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/6...classmate-says
http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/20...-regular-form/


I think he was a homophile actually

[Justin]

McIntosh is a pineappleing moron, as we all know already.

[cronnoponno]

What hobby requires a machine gun or semi-automatic rifle?

Since you didn't answer my previous questions, I'll answer them for you:
1. The Boston Marathon bombers killed 3 people with their bombs.
2. In Paris, a total of 130 people were killed in a series of coordinated attacks. Exactly one was killed by explosives (despite there being four suicide bombers), and all the rest were shot by automatic weapons.
3. Bonus question: the three suicide bombers at the Brussels airport and metro station killed 32 victims.

I'm not saying explosives are anything to laugh at. But I am saying that they are far less effective than machine guns. You can glibly say, "This guy may have killed -less- people" as if it didn't matter, but we're talking a LOT less people. Human lives matter more than somebody's right to "collect" semi-automatic weapons.

At the time a machine gun WAS the most effective thing to fall on, but if there were no guns realistically obtainable from the start you would be seeing vastly different body numbers from non-firearm methods.


Collecting guns is a hobby, and going out and firing them in safe, effective ranges that utilize proper gun safety is nothing to shame someone for. If someone likes to hold heavy firearms they should have the right to do so provided they pass a multitude of permit-checks and psychological verifications. I've been in the Military before and a lot of the people personally collect firearms and they do it perfectly safe and are in no danger of shooting anyone; I don't feel that I should fight to have their rights taken away in exchange for a low-effective bandaid solution. I hate to sound like a super-American but I really hold our rights in high regard, even if it means we have to risk danger I'm very reluctant to feel that someone's rights should be stripped away in favor of security....especially when it just won't stop killers from killing.

I'm fine with stricter verifications and more detailed security clearances to hold weapons, but telling Billybobjoe he can't collect firearms because Abdul Mohhamad Al Ur shot a bunch of people a couple hundred miles away when Abdul would have found some other method of killing people anyway is just not something I can support.

[xparasite9]

hm...

hmm

[Flonne]

hmm

Maybe he was built like that ISIS "bulldozer" guy, that shot a rocket launcher that is generally car mounted from his shoulder. Still, while I have limited knowledge of full automatic assault weaponry (we only have a semi-auto at the moment), those numbers do seem a bit fishy to me like that guy says. Even for two people. For it to have been one person, he must have been some type of space marine, trained for decades in combat from birth. Well, any type of space marine except storm trooper, doing all of that impossibly fast loading followed by spray and pray just to use up bullets fast enough to fit the amounts quoted and still having the accuracy of a high class marksman with that particular type of weapon.
edit: oh, was it a semi-auto or full-auto? Because if it was semi-auto, that pomegranate is entirely impossible.

McIntosh is a pineappleing moron, as we all know already.

This, he basically IS femfreq, he is automatically disqualified from any rational conversation.

[xparasite9]

edit: oh, was it a semi-auto or full-auto? Because if it was semi-auto, that pomegranate is entirely impossible.

Sig-Sauer MCX, comparable rifle to an AR-15 that the media claims it was. same magazine capacity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaPekvHYX0c
semi-auto gunfire

[Tay]

Side topic, people are arguing if this should be considered a hate crime over a terrorist attack. Certain arguments cite that calling it a "terrorist attack" incites Islamophobic context. SP's opinions? Based on what I understand, in my honest opinion it is both and calling it a "terrorist attack" doesn't immediately make me think anti-islam.

[Flonne]

Side topic, people are arguing if this should be considered a hate crime over a terrorist attack. Certain arguments cite that calling it a "terrorist attack" incites Islamophobic context. SP's opinions? Based on what I understand, in my honest opinion it is both and calling it a "terrorist attack" doesn't immediately make me think anti-islam.

It's both. Though, in my most likely unpopular opinion, equating terrorism directly with Islam is not exactly a bad thing, seeing as nearly all of the most active terrorist cells in the modern world also happen to be Muslim. Basically, even if not all Muslims are terrorists, just about all terrorists are Muslim. They are running rampant through Europe right now and in a few decades it will just be a new branch of the middle east, they are reproducing around 10 times faster than the other citizens there in all of the countries that have "taken them in", even while going on raping/killing sprees against the non-Muslims in those countries.

Islamophobia just means fear of those people, and to me that seems to be the most logical thing to do right now; why should we trust them when they have proven time and again that they are at best unfriendly and unaccepting of our world views and at worst extremist mass murderers who care nothing about their own lives as long as they take as many of us as possible down with them? Maybe Trump's "Muslim ban" is exactly what we need, at least until we get them under control, if it's even possible to do so. They don't seem to care at all about joining the rest of the civilized world and prefer to stay in their own religious bubble at all costs, so maybe putting them in a literal bubble by isolating them from the rest of the world completely for a few decades will either get them thinking about the future or cause them to turn on themselves and kill each other off. A lot of the royalty over there could not live without all the luxuries from various other countries, and many have even admitted that they watch American television and pomegranate; just cut them off, completely, and maybe they will at least pretend to be a bit more friendly for a while. The way it is going now, we are just letting them walk all over us with absolutely no repercussions.

In my view, the difference between homophobia and Islamophobia (as in, the difference in why one is acceptable and the other is not) is that the LGBT community does not train mass murderers to kill people that disagree with them, they have always generally been about passive protest to get the things they want (arguably, need, but that's not the point of this particular comparison). Why can't I be intolerant of Muslims, at this point? Even if it isn't all of them, an unsettlingly large portion of them are terrible people who care nothing about us and would either kill as many of us as possible at the first opportunity or, as is happening in Europe right now, work to undermine our entire culture and replace it with their culture. I feel that disliking them is completely justifiable, because they have no real redeeming qualities even in the best of them and do not accept any form of compromise, they are too violent for modern society and other more rational marginalized groups such as the LGBT community are much more willing to get things done in a sane manner. Their way takes time obviously, seeing as only recently in history has gay marriage even become acceptable, but the constant, PEACEFUL protests DO eventually get somewhere, whereas violent acts of war get nobody anywhere.

[ShinkuDragon]

if the guy described himself as isis and isis takes credit, then yea i'd say it's pretty fair to call it a terrorist attack.

and well if he hated gays and wanted them dead, you could call it a secondary motive on top.

[cronnoponno]

Honestly the fact that they would honestly subscribe themselves to a faith that condones completely savage acts immediately disqualifies them from sympathy of any sort. I'm getting pretty tired of how much we are shooting ourselves in the foot with political-correctness and euphemisms, it is a serious issue in our culture, the fact that someone religiously motivated to kill people causes one of the deadliest shootings in U.S history can handwaive a significant amount of concern for that specific cause is ''Shut up, you're Islamaphobic!'' is seriously an issue.


Ugh, I just can't come to terms with the fact that these people literally have this faith so pounded into them that they'd pineappleing shoot people they disagree with, and just because some of them show restraint by not indiscriminately murdering people their religion tells them to murder I'm ''Islamaphobic'' for NOT being okay with that faith. These people are completely racist and xenophobic of every culture that doesn't bow down to their....frankly pretty disgusting doctrines yet they are not condemned for this simply because they're foreign, yet those of us being on the receiving end are literally treated like scumbags for having a very reasonable hatred of what their faith represents and has caused to us are hateful and deserving of mockery?


It's a faith of savagry at this point, if it is not and it's just a group of people ''misinterpreting'' that faith, it is a faith that facilitates savagry on a much, much higher scale than most things in this world and I would be ashamed to be affiliated with such a faith knowing that it has been used as a tool to commit murder like this. I know it's not the only religion that does things like this, and I am not excluding other religions and faiths from this sort of accusation, but I think it's pretty fair to say the faith as a whole has earned my contempt and disrespect.

[Five Second Pose]

It's both. Though, in my most likely unpopular opinion, equating terrorism directly with Islam is not exactly a bad thing, seeing as nearly all of the most active terrorist cells in the modern world also happen to be Muslim. Basically, even if not all Muslims are terrorists, just about all terrorists are Muslim. They are running rampant through Europe right now and in a few decades it will just be a new branch of the middle east, they are reproducing around 10 times faster than the other citizens there in all of the countries that have "taken them in", even while going on raping/killing sprees against the non-Muslims in those countries.

Islamophobia just means fear of those people, and to me that seems to be the most logical thing to do right now; why should we trust them when they have proven time and again that they are at best unfriendly and unaccepting of our world views and at worst extremist mass murderers who care nothing about their own lives as long as they take as many of us as possible down with them? Maybe Trump's "Muslim ban" is exactly what we need, at least until we get them under control, if it's even possible to do so. They don't seem to care at all about joining the rest of the civilized world and prefer to stay in their own religious bubble at all costs, so maybe putting them in a literal bubble by isolating them from the rest of the world completely for a few decades will either get them thinking about the future or cause them to turn on themselves and kill each other off. A lot of the royalty over there could not live without all the luxuries from various other countries, and many have even admitted that they watch American television and pomegranate; just cut them off, completely, and maybe they will at least pretend to be a bit more friendly for a while. The way it is going now, we are just letting them walk all over us with absolutely no repercussions.

In my view, the difference between homophobia and Islamophobia (as in, the difference in why one is acceptable and the other is not) is that the LGBT community does not train mass murderers to kill people that disagree with them, they have always generally been about passive protest to get the things they want (arguably, need, but that's not the point of this particular comparison). Why can't I be intolerant of Muslims, at this point? Even if it isn't all of them, an unsettlingly large portion of them are terrible people who care nothing about us and would either kill as many of us as possible at the first opportunity or, as is happening in Europe right now, work to undermine our entire culture and replace it with their culture. I feel that disliking them is completely justifiable, because they have no real redeeming qualities even in the best of them and do not accept any form of compromise, they are too violent for modern society and other more rational marginalized groups such as the LGBT community are much more willing to get things done in a sane manner. Their way takes time obviously, seeing as only recently in history has gay marriage even become acceptable, but the constant, PEACEFUL protests DO eventually get somewhere, whereas violent acts of war get nobody anywhere.

So you think a gun ban won't stop bad people from getting guns but you think an Islam ban will stop bad Muslims from getting into the United States? Am I understanding you correctly?

Yeah, nice exaggeration of the point, "new branch of the middle east" lol

"an unsettlingly large portion"? Nearly a quarter of the human race is Muslim. All sorts of people can comprise a quarter of the human race.

Honestly the fact that they would honestly subscribe themselves to a faith that condones completely savage acts immediately disqualifies them from sympathy of any sort. I'm getting pretty tired of how much we are shooting ourselves in the foot with political-correctness and euphemisms, it is a serious issue in our culture, the fact that someone religiously motivated to kill people causes one of the deadliest shootings in U.S history can handwaive a significant amount of concern for that specific cause is ''Shut up, you're Islamaphobic!'' is seriously an issue.


Ugh, I just can't come to terms with the fact that these people literally have this faith so pounded into them that they'd pineappleing shoot people they disagree with, and just because some of them show restraint by not indiscriminately murdering people their religion tells them to murder I'm ''Islamaphobic'' for NOT being okay with that faith. These people are completely racist and xenophobic of every culture that doesn't bow down to their....frankly pretty disgusting doctrines yet they are not condemned for this simply because they're foreign, yet those of us being on the receiving end are literally treated like scumbags for having a very reasonable hatred of what their faith represents and has caused to us are hateful and deserving of mockery?


It's a faith of savagry at this point, if it is not and it's just a group of people ''misinterpreting'' that faith, it is a faith that facilitates savagry on a much, much higher scale than most things in this world and I would be ashamed to be affiliated with such a faith knowing that it has been used as a tool to commit murder like this. I know it's not the only religion that does things like this, and I am not excluding other religions and faiths from this sort of accusation, but I think it's pretty fair to say the faith as a whole has earned my contempt and disrespect.

I'm pretty sure most faiths "condone completely savage acts" in one form or another. Would you prefer to ban religion?

Do you think people of Islamic faith had it pounded into them so hard that they'd shoot someone or that people that would shoot someone happen to be Muslim?

Your "but" in your last sentence paints you in a pretty biased light, at least to me.

[KhainiWest]

So you think a gun ban won't stop bad people from getting guns but you think an Islam ban will stop bad Muslims from getting into the United States? Am I understanding you correctly?

TSA already targets them, all they have to do is kick them out at this point

[cronnoponno]

So you think a gun ban won't stop bad people from getting guns but you think an Islam ban will stop bad Muslims from getting into the United States? Am I understanding you correctly?

Yeah, nice exaggeration of the point, "new branch of the middle east" lol

"an unsettlingly large portion"? Nearly a quarter of the human race is Muslim. All sorts of people can comprise a quarter of the human race.



I'm pretty sure most faiths "condone completely savage acts" in one form or another. Would you prefer to ban religion?

Do you think people of Islamic faith had it pounded into them so hard that they'd shoot someone or that people that would shoot someone happen to be Muslim?

Your "but" in your last sentence paints you in a pretty biased light, at least to me.

If Christians start committing the deadliest shootings in U.S History, and cause worldwide terrorist attacks blatantly bragging about it to police and all that....well then I would view them the same way I view the Islamic faith; I never said anything about banning religion. People have the right to follow whatever faith they want, that doesn't excuse them from the notion that they are actively supporting a faith that literally condones raping people and is used as a catalyst for angry foreigners to gun down scores of people on American soil, you're damn right I'm pineappleing pissed. There is no defending this faith, and the fact that other religions condone being complete pomegranate bags doesn't change the fact that this religion does it as well.

The only way to defend this religion seems to be backing yourself in the corner and pointing at everyone else calling them biased, racist, xenophobic, or Islamaphobic; well go ahead and keep doing that. I think it's a scumbag religion.

[Flonne]

So you think a gun ban won't stop bad people from getting guns but you think an Islam ban will stop bad Muslims from getting into the United States? Am I understanding you correctly?

Yeah, nice exaggeration of the point, "new branch of the middle east" lol

"an unsettlingly large portion"? Nearly a quarter of the human race is Muslim. All sorts of people can comprise a quarter of the human race.



I'm pretty sure most faiths "condone completely savage acts" in one form or another. Would you prefer to ban religion?

Do you think people of Islamic faith had it pounded into them so hard that they'd shoot someone or that people that would shoot someone happen to be Muslim?

Your "but" in your last sentence paints you in a pretty biased light, at least to me.

-Bad people will get guns regardless of further gun restrictions; in fact, they will get guns even more easily in greater quantities, AND make more money off of them on a black market to fund their terrorism. The current presentation to Congress goes from 0 to full retard in one sentence; having the terrorist watch list and no fly list people placed on a more restricted/further background check system is perfectly reasonable. But then they went to the whole "secret court with no process of appealing or even finding out if you are on the list until you try to buy a gun", and "once you are on the list, regardless of why or if the government pineappleed up, you are screwed forever". Proving once again that they can do literally nothing right, and thus, why should we trust them to regulate our guns further when they not only can't follow the laws they have already put in place, but wish to introduce new even more ridiculous ones?

-Bluntly speaking, Europe is already gone, they have no way to excise the cancer at this point and their only path now is to die off and become a new Muslim state. That's not me being exaggerative or overreacting, I don't mind if you don't agree with it because you don't need to, the proof will begin showing up regardless of any denials within the next decade at the very most and probably much sooner; the Muslim ban isn't the only thing that can fix this and isn't my first choice, but it's the least extreme by far.

-Logically, you would think so. The fact of the matter is though, the extremists are not misinterpreting their sacred texts as he said, they are following them to the letter. Maybe the first step should be rewriting that pomegranate to be less xenophobic and insane, a new testament of sorts that makes them into human beings that are actually tolerable to be around and not bloodthirsty psychopaths.

-Religion, quite honestly, is a thing that should have gone to the wayside centuries ago. That includes A(nti)theism. It's a waste of time and a detriment to the advancement of society, just look at all the negative pomegranate that stems from it. I get that some people are not able to cope with things and have to blame/follow a higher power, but that's on them, not society, to deal with their pineappleed up problems.