Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased

[Gymleaders]

Oh you mean including the trade function completely broken almost immediately? I mean I'll be honest, I haven't touched anything MS related probably since 2012, 2014 if you include me logging onto just Omok and smega spam the "COME BACK TO US, HERE FREE NX" emails. Things haven't changed at all, the very architecture is broken, no matter what system, content, or whatever is provided, hackers run the game, point blank. You will not find a single problem like that in a private server, yet they regulate the same population pretty much. Funny how that works lmao.





It's pretty clear he's complaining that the type of socialization he experiences is not organic with the content like it was when preparing goby/zakum/horntail. I mean honestly, you're saying "9/10 TIMES IT WAS THEIR FAULT", when someone contradicts your assertion it's suddenly "WHY AM I WRONG???". He's adding to the conversation as an example who actively tried to socialize, they're both opinions, it's not right or wrong.




It died once the damage cap was increased to like 50m or whatever, that was post big bang believe it or not. The potential we had was at least manageable, although I don't agree with it. I mean I know you're probably confusing yourself by the retardation from basil and reddit but the criticisms/suggestions are fairly consistent. Rest assured none of them are "ROLL BACK TO BIG BANG".

I'm not saying MApleStory as a game is a good game. I'm saying the social aspect isn't gone. The game may as well very well be absolute pomegranate, I'm not arguing that. However people who say there's no sense of community are people who attribute to that exact feeling most of the time. I also don't think I've ever been like "why am I wrong".

[Justin]

Big bang wasn't really that bad of an update, it was unleashed that seriously hemorrhaged off players by the truck load. Potential being the root of the problem, multiplying the damage cap by 50 was just greedy and pineappleing absurd. The motive was obvious. Appeal to whales. Focus on them instead of the regular playerbase. The results are evident by today's game.

The goal here is to have community or group driven activities and bosses again, not roll everything back. That's a silly notion to have. Granted, at this point it might be too late anyhow.

[Untradeable]

It isn't about the content, or lack there-of, it's about the direction it went that killed it for me

but direction is what determines content.

[KhainiWest]

I'm not saying MApleStory as a game is a good game. I'm saying the social aspect isn't gone. The game may as well very well be absolute pomegranate, I'm not arguing that. However people who say there's no sense of community are people who attribute to that exact feeling most of the time. I also don't think I've ever been like "why am I wrong".

I mean that's exactly what you said;

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make. That you complain, but you're also social, so what I said is automatically wrong because of that? Or that you try socializing and you aren't getting the social experience you want out of MapleStory?

He essentially gave his personal experience which contradicted yours, doesn't necessarily validate it but your generalization also loses validity

[Gymleaders]

I mean that's exactly what you said;

[/COLOR]

He essentially gave his personal experience which contradicted yours, doesn't necessarily validate it but your generalization also loses validity

No, that's not what I meant. My generalization never had validity in the first place. No one's points in these arguments ever do. That's just it, the whole argument is a matter of opinion. The only fact is there's less population now than there was back then. The argument of no sense of community is opinion based.

[KhainiWest]

No, that's not what I meant. My generalization never had validity in the first place. No one's points in these arguments ever do. That's just it, the whole argument is a matter of opinion. The only fact is there's less population now than there was back then. The argument of no sense of community is opinion based.

You posted an observation, a user posted himself as an example, you questioned essentially why he was stating his opinion, which was to show contradiction, that's kind of how things work

[Silento]

I know I post this every time this conversation comes up, but old Maple had terrible content. The only good point was the community, and I agree that that part, at least, was great. But I still play other games with friend I made through Maple, and I have more fun with those games then I did with old Maple. There was nothing really all that special about old Maple that made people flock to it, it was just one of the first huge F2P MMOs. Other games had grind, other games had harsh RNG, other games had group content. I feel like people enjoying the community of Maple PS's for their community isn't something unique to Maple, it's just the type of players that stick around on PS's. I've played lots of RO PS's, and there were similar communities in some of them.

I also enjoy new Maple in spurts, most of my old friends don't play it but I have a few who still do. I'm very glad that new content isn't 30-man raid bosses, even ignoring how boring of a fight Zak or HT were having to deal with coordinating that many people's schedules isn't what I'd call fun. Even WoW moved away from giant raids years ago, didn't it? I think Maple has definitely improved a lot over the past year or two, and while there's obviously still a ton of things to fix it's on an upward swing, at least for now. I really like Reboot! Also, I hope that 5th job will make the harder bosses more accessible, but that's not a huge deal to me. Power creep will make them easier one day, I'm sure.

[Five Second Pose]

I've always wondered why this entire forum is so fixated on arguing pre-big bang to post big bang... This game was "ruined" before big bang patch was even hit.

It isn't "this entire forum". It's exactly one person who consistently brings the topic up repeatedly and to the surprise of nobody active posters post in active threads.

[Marksman Bryan]

I'll throw in a random opinion of my own that doesn't really flow with the current coversation -


The thing I miss the most was having rare drops -- chaos scrolls from area bosses/certain mobs (artifact event!), old monster book cards, mastery books from specific mobs/bosses, etc. I'm pretty sure it was that aspect that got me addicted in the first place.
Everyone hated the old mastery book system. I've only ever heard complaints about how hard it was to get (and pass) a specific skillbook. I always thought it was a brilliant system -- spending time hunting for those skillbooks was an enormously meaningful upgrade in most cases. Yeah, sometimes you'd get unlucky and it would take several expensive skillbooks to get it to pass. But that made it all the more awesome of an achievement.
One of my best memories from pre-bb was having to go through seven (or was it eight?) SE30 books for it to finally pass. I still have the screenshot saved of when I finally got one to work. I was so proud of finally being able to max that skill.

I'm sure a lot of people on this forum remember how I used to post my daily chaos scroll drops. Drumming bunnies, zombie mushrooms, tae roon, seruf, king sage cat, snowman, etc. I made well over 500k nx through MTS just from hunting them. I absolutely loved keeping track of the boss spawn times, randomizing channels so it was difficult for people to follow you, optimizing what order you did the bosses in.

When I was bored of that, I could go and hunt monster cards. Which had a drop rate low enough that grinding long enough to have one drop was actually an accomplishment. This was, by far, my favorite aspect of Maplestory. Staying up to odd hours, waking up extra early, just to hunt bot-catching mobs for a chance at getting their card. I still get excited when I think back to how it felt to have some of them finally drop. Still sad about never having gotten any of the Goblin King cards.

Leveling was never a priority to me. It was something that just happened over time, explicitly going out to train on my own only during the 2x events.

[ShinkuDragon]

Big bang wasn't really that bad of an update, it was unleashed that seriously hemorrhaged off players by the truck load. Potential being the root of the problem, multiplying the damage cap by 50 was just greedy and pineappleing absurd. The motive was obvious. Appeal to whales. Focus on them instead of the regular playerbase. The results are evident by today's game.

The goal here is to have community or group driven activities and bosses again, not roll everything back. That's a silly notion to have. Granted, at this point it might be too late anyhow.

i think it was a 3-stab job, first came potential, which was pretty much money-only to get anything good that was unique, however you could make do with epics to a degree so it wasn't THAT bad, especially since we had such a "low" cap so to speak

then the cap was removed, and those who really cubed their gear suddenly were doing 20x as much damage as free players.

and then legendary came further increasing the gap, each of these coming with bosses that only the toppest of the top (read: spent NX or merch'd hardcore) could even attempt. look at when cygnus came out, just killing the knights was an achievement, killing cygnus herself took parties with several legendary-tier members.

[TheBlackMage]

Are you serious? We're talking about Taiwanese streams on Twitch during 3 PM in Taiwan, when people are working and are at school, need I remind you how Taiwan is similar to Japan and Korea and people get out late.
Today I've seen over (once again Taiwanese) 100 People watching across a few streams during non peak hours, when it's 1 AM in Taiwan once again it's on Twitch, not Youku or other sites which are oriented for mainland/taiwanese/chinese gamers.
It's easy to see 200,200,10~40 streamers at the same time, streams occasionally on twitch too, also go on Youku, go on Afreecatv, Seriously but yes let's stick to the Taiwanese twitch example and ignore all else.

@Endgame; Is completely correct.

@Five Second Pose; No where did I talk about that, I said that people are discrediting their work that they are finally putting into their service, as I've even pointed out, I'm still worried about hackers in their service-heck Khaini said this on the last post in page 3, that is something they must fix and I will criticize them as much as I can for that, Nexon KR is also at fault though.

Sure it might not, but NexonKR already addressed, they want to add more zones, more bosses, Hyper stats were a good start, 5th job, they are still adding pomegranate, yes it was a pineappleing desert of a level range, but not anymore, Level cap is too much effort to hit to begin with, Which they admitted is true, it is right now not catered towards the casual audience to begin with, just like 200 wasn't for a casual audience and look what happened, did anyone forget how pineappleing annoying goobies or ludi were? They've successfully convinced people to get to 210 (Hyper stats,100% accuracy on Suu), who knows they want to do next.

The progress is still on going, GMS is easier than KMS to begin with objectively anyways so I don't understand how grinding for a single level works when that version literally hands out stuff that help grind, it's a different mindset for sure, maybe you're right but what could be changed? as I've said the base work is the same and one version hugs its players like it is no one's business with goodies (bribe to keep you playing) when you compare the two, maybe that is what's wrong.

I've already addressed socializing, content is still on going, people are still playing, so hmm what's left?

I don't even know why I keep posting I guess it is fun but honestly regarding Bryan's post the only thing I truly miss from old Maplestory is the old map designs with the twisty roads and hidden streets everywhere, also the very amateurish texture/lack of AA that they had, I think it was Maplestory's best strength, I wish they could give those back to us.
Exploration is something that's definitely lacking and I have no clue how could they give it back when the damage's done, and I grew up meaning I have much more critical opinions on stuff, meaning I'd hate grinding in those huge maps alone for hours, something which was common for a lot of players, and that's something people ignore.

[KhainiWest]

Are you serious? We're talking about Taiwanese streams on Twitch during 3 PM in Taiwan, when people are working and are at school, need I remind you how Taiwan is similar to Japan and Korea and people get out late.
Today I've seen over (once again Taiwanese) 100 People watching across a few streams during non peak hours, when it's 1 AM in Taiwan once again it's on Twitch, not Youku or other sites which are oriented for mainland/taiwanese/chinese gamers.
It's easy to see 200,200,10~40 streamers at the same time, streams occasionally on twitch too, also go on Youku, go on Afreecatv, Seriously but yes let's stick to the Taiwanese twitch example and ignore all else.

Endgame; Is completely correct.

Five Second Pose; No where did I talk about that, I said that people are discrediting their work that they are finally putting into their service, as I've even pointed out, I'm still worried about hackers in their service-heck Khaini said this on the last post in page 3, that is something they must fix and I will criticize them as much as I can for that, Nexon KR is also at fault though.

Sure it might not, but NexonKR already addressed, they want to add more zones, more bosses, Hyper stats were a good start, 5th job, they are still adding pomegranate, yes it was a pineappleing desert of a level range, but not anymore, Level cap is too much effort to hit to begin with, Which they admitted is true, it is right now not catered towards the casual audience to begin with, just like 200 wasn't for a casual audience and look what happened, did anyone forget how pineappleing annoying goobies or ludi were? They've successfully convinced people to get to 210 (Hyper stats,100% accuracy on Suu), who knows they want to do next.

The progress is still on going, GMS is easier than KMS to begin with objectively anyways so I don't understand how grinding for a single level works when that version literally hands out stuff that help grind, it's a different mindset for sure, maybe you're right but what could be changed? as I've said the base work is the same and one version hugs its players like it is no one's business with goodies (bribe to keep you playing) when you compare the two, maybe that is what's wrong.

I've already addressed socializing, content is still on going, people are still playing, so hmm what's left?

I don't even know why I keep posting I guess it is fun but honestly regarding Bryan's post the only thing I truly miss from old Maplestory is the old map designs with the twisty roads and hidden streets everywhere, also the very amateurish texture/lack of AA that they had, I think it was Maplestory's best strength, I wish they could give those back to us.
Exploration is something that's definitely lacking and I have no clue how could they give it back when the damage's done, and I grew up meaning I have much more critical opinions on stuff, meaning I'd hate grinding in those huge maps alone for hours, something which was common for a lot of players, and that's something people ignore.

You're just going to have to take my word for it but nothing has changed. The management still doesn't understand what to prioritize, they are criticized and tied down by KR publisher. Literally it's half the reason they do ban wipes, because every single account is criticized, KR treats them with as much skepticism without acknowledging the comparison of ease of access. There was already like 12 NDA breaks they had a huge meeting about awhile ago.

Point is, the same problems are here, no 'we are trying our best' is going to resolve that. The reason why I listed out game changes is because I was questioned on what I would change about the game. If you want to talk company, my list would be a hell of a lot longer.

Also regarding the twitch stream, I mean, dont put it up as an example if there's context like that behind it. I don't play TW, I don't know anything about taiwan besides watch out for lady-men

[Five Second Pose]

Five Second Pose; No where did I talk about that, I said that people are discrediting their work that they are finally putting into their service, as I've even pointed out, I'm still worried about hackers in their service-heck Khaini said this on the last post in page 3, that is something they must fix and I will criticize them as much as I can for that, Nexon KR is also at fault though.

Sure it might not, but NexonKR already addressed, they want to add more zones, more bosses, Hyper stats were a good start, 5th job, they are still adding pomegranate, yes it was a pineappleing desert of a level range, but not anymore, Level cap is too much effort to hit to begin with, Which they admitted is true, it is right now not catered towards the casual audience to begin with, just like 200 wasn't for a casual audience and look what happened, did anyone forget how pineappleing annoying goobies or ludi were? They've successfully convinced people to get to 210 (Hyper stats,100% accuracy on Suu), who knows they want to do next.

I'm going to drop the Twitch point because you clearly have little understanding of the platform.

You YOURSELF are saying this.

Yes I'll keep saying this why? Because we're talking about Maplestory not Global,

The base of this game was built on things the Korean audience would enjoy, it happened to appeal to the rest of the world because F2P MMOs were in their infancy. The things that continue to make it successful in Korea aren't the things that make games successful in the rest of the world.

Again, improvement is great but these things are coming too late for it to matter here. I haven't played that many other MMOs but there are a bunch of level ranges that simply weren't even catered to for sections of MapleStory's history because the devs didn't think people would get there. I have not seen this in any other MMO.

Maybe they have to bribe us to keep playing because no one wants to play the game on its own merits?

[TheBlackMage]

You're just going to have to take my word for it but nothing has changed. The management still doesn't understand what to prioritize, they are criticized and tied down by KR publisher. Literally it's half the reason they do ban wipes, because every single account is criticized, KR treats them with as much skepticism without acknowledging the comparison of ease of access. There was already like 12 NDA breaks they had a huge meeting about awhile ago.

Point is, the same problems are here, no 'we are trying our best' is going to resolve that. The reason why I listed out game changes is because I was questioned on what I would change about the game. If you want to talk company, my list would be a hell of a lot longer.

Also regarding the twitch stream, I mean, dont put it up as an example if there's context like that behind it. I don't play TW, I don't know anything about taiwan besides watch out for lady-men

The reason I've used the TW example is because even on a foreign site such as Twitch there's a good traffic that's leaking through Youku and Chinese sites on an (old) game such as (T)MS, Compared to the HUGE LoL TW streams vs other games but maple streams I find it impressive, I hope you understand.

Well they are adding a lot of stuff and they addressing the lack of content during 210~250 it isn't just effort, because it is working in many markets, the game is in a really good healthy state actually, you can get high amount of accessibility to content and money with a good effort that isn't KMMORPG grinding hell, I am dead serious and the game becomes less and less Pay2Win I kid you not, them making S,cubes not get you below Epic and Toad Hammer saved the game essentially, As in for everything being Ultimate attack based, Well.... it's too late to fix that but they are changing boss mechanics to fix that, grinding maps got a tad larger too (Heaven, World tree, Twlight Persion) since Unlimited.

Why does GMS slips through? I wish someone could actually give a solid answer to everyone here, I think it does need flames to start with though.

Yes I've mentioned the whole KR-NA relationship but can I ask why do you think it has so much impact (on non ban wipe stuff), Say if NA wasn't limited by KR what would happen?

@Five Second Pose; No I clearly have more understanding than you, If you don't understand how the TW/CN market of gaming goes and do not get how little they go onto this kind of site compared to what's locally there, just like how Koreans go to Afreecatv and NOT twitch clearly.
Well Khaini just stated some of the issues which are holding GMS back, and do not allow it to breath as it should, A LOT of the improvements are not getting through KMS to GMS FYI, something which I haven't mentioned clearly but here now I've said it (earlier too with toad), on the other hand Progression in GMS isn't half bad either, Gollux items are OP honestly and having meister cubes that drop was a good addition, A lot of the things which available on the Korean Market ARE NOT ON GMS MAYBE THAT'S PART OF THE ISSUE and not purely the basis of the game, because that argument is dull or else GMS would never be active throughout 05~13, Grinding was always tedious, it is still tedious, As I've said the game is getting older and that could explain the player bleed just like I told Pika up there, Only global is so called fading away and there are a lot of reasons, part of which the game is getting older, it does have competition, and primarily it isn't improving and getting rid of the Pay2Win Shackles as well as KMS, on the other hand, reboot does exist, what could this logically explain? the game is not as appealing like before which is OK, it DOES have heavy competition over that side of the world and so on however saying it is DEAD is foolish.

[Five Second Pose]

The reason I've used the TW example is because even on a foreign site such as Twitch there's a good traffic that's leaking through Youku and Chinese sites on an (old) game such as (T)MS, Compared to the HUGE LoL TW streams vs other games but maple streams I find it impressive, I hope you understand.

Five Second Pose; No I clearly have more understanding than you, If you don't understand how the TW/CN market of gaming goes and do not get how little they go onto this kind of site compared to what's locally there, just like how Koreans go to Afreecatv and NOT twitch clearly.

Do you live in Taiwan or China such that you can claim to be an authority on that region? China has a bunch of streaming websites because China has their own version of almost everything on the internet so there's almost no Chinese streamers on Twitch regardless of game. Why would you bother using an example of an alternative website in the eastern market to prove your point that GMS is fine? I'm not pointing at Bing results. There are currently 155 viewers of MapleStory spread across 11 English streams on Twitch. That's not the mark of a thriving, stream-friendly game.

[TheBlackMage]

Do you live in Taiwan or China such that you can claim to be an authority on that region? China has a bunch of streaming websites because China has their own version of almost everything on the internet so there's almost no Chinese streamers on Twitch regardless of game. Why would you bother using an example of an alternative website in the eastern market to prove your point that GMS is fine? I'm not pointing at Bing results. There are currently 155 viewers of MapleStory spread across 11 English streams on Twitch. That's not the mark of a thriving, stream-friendly game.

No but I am well aware of how people are there, Just like you've said China does have it is own local stuff just as Korea and Taiwan.
I am not using it to prove GMS is fine, I am using to prove the GAME is fine something which you quoted 2 posts above this.
Yes, maybe because the audience is mostly GMS players, which is shrinking and no one ever denied it, I've asked you to compare Twitch&MS to Youku&CMS/TMS, Afreecatv and oh boy how many more korean pomegranate there is&KMS.

[Five Second Pose]

No but I am well aware of how people are there, Just like you've said China does have it is own local stuff just as Korea and Taiwan.
I am not using it to prove GMS is fine, I am using to prove the GAME is fine something which you quoted 2 posts above this.

We are not talking about the game in the entire world, though. We don't have the experience with other regions to say that the entire game is fine. We know that a lot of us do not enjoy playing it here in our region where we reside. That's the entire problem. What works in one market isn't guaranteed to work in another market with different demographics.

[KhainiWest]

es I've mentioned the whole KR-NA relationship but can I ask why do you think it has so much impact (on non ban wipe stuff), Say if NA wasn't limited by KR what would happen?

A lot of things. Banning would be treated like overwatch, NX dependency would be completely shattered, architecture of the game would completely change to benefit efficient patching. There are a lot of things GM's list as things they want access too, every.single.year. They get denied.

Maplestory NA is a failure as far as I'm concerned, the other regions frankly don't justify its existance.

[TheBlackMage]

We are not talking about the game in the entire world, though. We don't have the experience with other regions to say that the entire game is fine. We know that a lot of us do not enjoy playing it here in our region where we reside. That's the entire problem. What works in one market isn't guaranteed to work in another market with different demographics.

That isn't the core of discussion however, we're posting in "(Did anyone say Global) Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased", The only version which I am remotely worried about is JMS as it does give a negative investment from some reason anyways, I must admit I know nothing of JMS so I can't speak about that one.
Yes I've said it, and we already established why it doesn't work as well as it should, although players still play GMS, and I do wish Nexon both KR and AM would fix this non sense, Import some of that better progression, Stop with the bribes, More content does help too, I like the new additions from China for example.
Who knows maybe the EMS merge will give something positive, the bleed isn't as big as it was but same goes proportionally for the playerbase sadly.

A lot of things. Banning would be treated like overwatch, NX dependency would be completely shattered, architecture of the game would completely change to benefit efficient patching. There are a lot of things GM's list as things they want access too, every.single.year. They get denied.

Maplestory NA is a failure as far as I'm concerned, the other regions frankly don't justify its existance.[/COLOR]

You're right about the NX dependency sadly, I can admit it because I play KMS and I've mentioned how those elements get weakened through KR's effort, Maybe AM could help some more in their own version.

Same goes for banning and I don't think Korea has actual understanding of this the more I think about it, They want to "bribe" players with ban wipes to bring more population when in return it only disgusts legit players away, "but but the numbers"-KR.

Idk about patching lol but w/e.

I wonder if something could be done about this, I don't think GMSers are aware of this issue? e.g "There are a lot of things GM's list as things they want access too, every.single.year. They get denied."


@Five Second Pose; Fine maybe, I just wanted to showcase other regions are doing well, and the game overall is doing very well, which lead to the GMS discussion although it was gonna go there sooner or later .





But does anyone know why JMS is failing monetarily?

[Five Second Pose]

That isn't the core of discussion however, we're posting in "(Did anyone say Global) Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased"

It's the core of the discussion you brought up though, don't try and deflect that.