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  1. Default Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    In the current state of the world it seems like everyone wants to be represented in all types of mediums and I am genuinely wondering why.

    Good recent examples would be how blacks felt under represented at the Oscars, and how some women feel under represented or wrongly represented in games. What started me wondering about this was a comment I saw from someone about the Oscars thing who was Hispanic and stated something along the lines of "As a Mexican guy, yes please. I've always wanted to see someone like me play a hero, do an amazing job acting, and get recognized." and I can't help but wonder why. Why do you form a connection with someone who shares the same ethnicity or anything as you and want to see them succeed or have them in whatever medium you enjoy? Why does it have to be someone the same as you? Why can't a woman represent a man and vice versa? Why can't a black person represent a white person, or an asian person, or a hispanic and etc and so on?

    The way I personally view it is that it shouldn't matter, right? I mean whether it is movies or video games it is fictional characters in a fictional universe (even if it is based off of a true story) why does it matter if you're being represented? Just because someone shares the same ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation or anything else with you doesn't make them like you, so it is really as simple as people identifying themselves by those things and wanting to see someone that shares those things being successful or be in their medium of choice so they can feel like they can do the same things?

  2. Trump minus th money
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    What a terribly problematic thing to say! We should have equal representation in all ways! In fact, it should go beyond, and not have representation that reflects the real-life percentages, but have it where we have equal parts of every distinction! And don't talk to me about "historical accuracy", it's a fantasy setting, things can change!

  3. Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    All this human representation is problematic for me as well. As dragonkin I demand more films with dragons as the main characters. #HollywoodSoHuman

    On a serious note, I really don't understand it myself, either - I've never really had any problem relating with a character or at least understanding what they are going through regardless of their Gender, Color, Sexual orientation, anything really. I guess we just don't have anything actually important to dispute over these days, so something's gotta fill the drama gap. (Despite all the pomegranate going on in the eastern part of the world)

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    only argument i can even give, that i actually believe (because everything else i read is bullpomegranate) is that it makes you feel that you could have become that, or had/have a chance. like the jamaican bobsledding team

    edit: basically zapta's basketball example in the post down.

  5. Orbital Bee Cannon
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    Human beings are herd animals. We have a natural instinct to prefer "our people" to "everyone else."
    This is further strengthened by society, when we form teams and compete against other teams.
    As a little child you're told that you are supposed to have "school spirit" and be happy when your school's team wins something-or-other, even if you have no interest in whatever that team is doing.
    Your town's local paper will proudly inform you when someone from the town rises to any kind of prominence.
    And don't let me get started on patriotism and national pride.
    People are proud when someone from "their team" does good. Even if it's a "team" that isn't identified by a geographic location but by ethnicity, gender, etc.
    And, just like little-league teams complaining when the referee seems to give the other team preferential treatment, grown ups complain when their "team" doesn't seem to be doing as well as it deserves to.

    TL;DR: Human nature.

    Additionally, when talking about specific fields, there is the issue of role models.
    If you are a white boy who wants to be a basketball player and are constantly faced with disparaging remarks about how "white men can't jump", it really helps to be able to point out specific white men who did well as basketball players.

  6. Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    You're not normal so youll never understand

  7. Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    That is actually pretty good, while I never went through those things myself but it makes sense. Thanks for that.

    I wish I was sometimes, then maybe so many "normal" things wouldn't be confusing.

  8. Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?



  9. Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    Because most of the time this recognition goes to someone that is not slightest like him.

    You have to understand that movies, video games, television, magazines and all forms of media create opinions between masses. Opinions to what is considered good, pretty, decent, etc. And most of the time, this is represented by a white, fit, straight man. This is also why beauty standards are so common and geared towards this type of person, because this is the type of person that you will see starring movies or in the cover of magazines. Just look at the Oscars, we live in a society that is Eurocentric.

    The lack of representation just reinforces that. By having different representations of people, it's almost like you're saying that it's fine that you belong to a different ethnicity, or that you are trans, gay, fat, whatever. It tries to create an equal field between different people.

    I guess people are sick of seeing the same type of person representing them because it's not who they are. It might not be an actual representation of the person, but it's closer. Just an example, imagine someone trying to make a movie based on an anime and yet the whole cast is white. This happens a lot, it happens so much that people are just tired of it. It’s not just about being represented, but what it does.

  10. Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    Do people truly feel this way, though? I have watched many a movie starring Blacks, Indians, Mexicans, Women, though not so much on characters who are homosexual or transexual (As if this would even mean anything plot-wise to most movies), and I just feel it's something people go out of their way to notice and upset themselves over - I don't think to myself, "Oh, well this is a black lead, so I don't relate to this movie's demographic at all", I care more about the story and the message that it's trying to convey. I also don't really understand how the fashion/beauty industries (which is all shopped and faked to high hell anyway) relates...

    That said, if the main character not relating to you or being identical to you matters so much, don't... watch the movie? Watch something else? I really don't understand the problem. (Not pointed at you directly, just a general question for everybody.)

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    wow, that's on par with victim blaming, you sithlord.

  12. Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    That was awesome. Nice to see Triumph hasn't lost his touch.

    Oh, yeah, I completely agree with this.

    And I agree that diversity is good, but it seems weird to me that people push for it so much. Is is all about a form of acceptance? Do people push for it so much because they want to feel the acceptance for who or what they are?

    If that is the reason it is understandable, I don't get it, but I understand it. When it comes to whatever type of medium I prefer to take on the "God" role just watching down on the world as it plays out so I have no reason to identify with characters or have the need to be represented.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    The problem is that people have to push really damn hard for a really long time to get anything accomplished. It seems like a disproportionate response to an, at times, over publicized problem (as with the case of the Oscars for the black community). However, it's really damn hard to change stereotypical public opinion, which affects minority groups in a negative way on a daily basis, without actually getting publicity.

    For a lot of people, I imagine it is about being accepted and validated by society for your worth as both a minority member and an individual. It's basic human nature to crave this. For others, it's about the statistical unfairness of being judged inferior for irrelevant characteristics beyond your control. For most jobs, your skin color, accent, religion, hair style, piercings etc are all completely irrelevant. Yet every single one of those and many more will impact your opportunities. Life isn't freaking fair, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the problems or stop trying to fix them.
    Last edited by VerrKol; 2016-02-29 at 08:03 PM.

  14. Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    I can't speak for everyone, but I think for most people that complained about the Oscars, yes.

    But people still watch the movies for the message, plot, whatever. They are not saying the movies are bad or criticizing white people, they are just complaining about the lack of diversity. The world doesn't revolve around white people, you know? However it feels like it. I mean, you have the biggest movie ceremony in the world and yet it's a white party. People are questioning why the lead is always white. Why people getting awards are always white? Look at the Emmys, it exists since 1949 and yet the FIRST black woman won best actress just last year, it took only 66 years... Does this feel right?

    I used the beauty standards as just an example of how media can manipulate the masses and how it gives privileges to certain people and ignore the others. Which my point is about.

    Why ignore the problem though? Especially since it leads to other problems like I said before.
    Also most of the biggest blockbusters are starred by a white lead, so it's not like they have much options. The point of representation is to include, not exclude. Don't twist things.

  15. Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    Forcing diversity or acting entitled to things (See Will Smith) is absolutely ass backwards and always will be discouraged. The entire "black lives matter" is an absolute travesty, it is its own mockery to say the least.

  16. Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    Denzel Washington, Will Smith, Morgan Freeman, Eddie Murphy, Samuel L. Jackson, Eddie Murphy, James Earl Jones, Jamie Foxx, Forest Whitaker, Don Cheadle, Wesley Snipes, Halle Berry, Whoopi Goldberg - These are all black actors I can name off the top of my head. Admittedly, there's only 2 females in that list, but what lack of diversity?

    Asian Actors:

    Jet Li, Jackie Chan, John Cho, Chow Yun-fat - Can't name nearly as many, but again, these are off the top of my head.

    I'm not seeing the lack of diversity. There are NUMEROUS movies starring countless ethnicities, races, nationalities, whatever you want to go with, but why do they have to win awards just for being diverse? These movies don't win because they star white people, you know. Isn't that pulling the race card in and of itself?

    No one here implied that in the least - nor has a single person in this thread even posted what their skin color is.


    May I direct you to http://www.bet.com/? Where is the White Entertainment Television website? Where is the Asian Entertainment Television website? Why are double standards okay when white people are the ones not included?


    Because they're the ones playing their roles better than the others?... Why must everything be chalked up to race? Should I start flinging pomegranate at the NFL or the NBA because the majority of players are black? I literally never hear complaints about this, so why do acting roles get complained about for having a majority white group? Again with the double standards.

    I guess it simply took 66 years for a black actress to do a good enough job to beat everybody else that year.

    ...Isn't this a problem for literally everyone? Doesn't this detract from your point, rather than add to it?


    There needs to be a problem for one to be ignored.


    There is plenty of inclusion in this industry. Just because they aren't winning awards it does not mean they are not making loads of money from it, nor are they bad actors/actresses. This strange notion that only white people get to win awards is outright silly and is racist in and of itself.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    ugh, please don't. That network has been an tool of whites keeping the black person down ever since it was sold to Viacom. I'm not even joking this time.

  18. Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    I never said that other ethnicities can't make it, it's just a lot harder. Make a list of white actors of the same caliber and you will see that the list will be WAY longer. And it's not because they are more talented, it's because they are given better opportunities to showcase it. Look at the list of your asian actors, almost all of them are given the martial artist role and nothing else. It's not a fair comparison.


    I know, but I talked about how it may feel not being white, that the world seems to be revolved around white people. I don't know why you are having a hard time to acknowledge white privilege, but imagine a white person on a job interview and there's a black guy, with the exact same credentials as the white guy, competing for the same spot. Who do you think would take the job? The white guy most likely, but why?


    There's a reason why this exists. Do you really think white people need their own White TV when the TV itself is dominated by white people?
    Because there are no double standards... it's not white people that is marginalized by the society, au contraire. Racism exists.
    But don't get me wrong, I think it's wrong to mock white people just for the sake of it.


    Listen to Viola Davis' speech and you will understand. She said "the only thing that separates women of color is opportunity"
    And it's true, people of other ethnicity are not winning awards not because they aren't talented enough, but because there are almost no important roles given to them.


    Not literally everyone when there's clearly a type of person being praised and being privileged over anyone else.


    But there's a problem, you are just having difficulty in acknowledge it.


    Well, it seems silly, but it's true. The Oscars is just an example of how only white people are winning awards.

  19. Nuclear testing facility Straight Male
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    @Justin; Are you really contending that Hollywood isn't discriminatory? I can't tell if this is all sarcasm, some sort of bait, or blind ignorance. The data has shown time and again that many minority groups on and off the screen are under represented, under paid, and given less desirable rolls than their white, male counterparts. It's not universal, but it is pervasive. The idea that not a single black actress merited an Emmy in 66 years is laughable.

    The fact that you can name famous minority actors who make/made money in Hollywood doesn't mean there isn't a problem. Hell, the fact that 3/4 of the Asian actors you named are martial arts experts says something about the typecasting. Jackie Chan himself complains about his limited rolls on camera and basically gave up on Hollywood for Asian film. While I love Jackie Chan's movies, I don't think of him as a great dramatic actor. The point remains that nearly every actor of Asian ancestry complains of this problem.

    Aziz Ansari has a great comedy which plays on a lot of these questions called Master of None. It's based on his personal experiences.

    Your opinions and perception don't match the reality.
    Last edited by VerrKol; 2016-02-29 at 11:11 PM.

  20. Default Re: Can someone explain to me the need to be represented?


    I'm... not going to read a 66 page analysis. I skimmed the conclusion, however, and it flat out states in the report, and I quote:

    "What’s new is that business as usual in the Hollywood industry may soon be unsustain-able. Evidence from this report (and its predecessor in the series) shows clearly that America’s increasingly diverse audiences prefer diverse content created with the input of diverse talent. Diversity sells. "

    Keep in mind, America was a majority white country for the longest time. That is changing. You speak of Under and Over representation, but the representation has mostly matched the population and its diversity, as far as I can tell. The demographic will change and the bottom line will change to reflect that naturally over time. Do you really think it's racism? No, it's money. Do you really think they don't take the money potential into account when they make these decisions? Movie making is an incredibly high risk investment - Some movies get millions put into its budget and production value and don't even come close to breaking even. They stick with what they KNOW will work, and even then it's a crapshoot sometimes. It's also everybody else's fault as much as their own, because we're the ones who watch the pomegranate they put out. We're the ones who pay to watch their movies with their allegedly all white casts and exclusive awards shows.

    (I absolutely agree with both of you on the asian/martial artist parts of your arguments, though. I hadn't thought about that much and it is pretty messed up.)

    THAT SAID, however - there are many more opportunities available to EVERYONE in this day and age: Youtube, Twitch, Kickstarter projects, the list goes on. You don't NEED multi-million dollar funding from hollywood to make it out there in the world of acting. There are many places to start.

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