How does threaten work?

[ShinkuDragon]

assumming chaos vellum, is it

300-30=270% PDR
or 300*(1-0.3)=210% PDR
?

aditionally with the hyper, which of these three is the correct way?

300-50=250% PDR
300*(1-0.5)=150% PDR
300*(1-0.3)*(1-0.2)=168% PDR

[Takebacker]

I thought it was #2 and #2

[ShinkuDragon]

I thought it was #2 and #2

i keep thinking it's 2 and then 3 (since that's how most hypers work) but it could be as you say since some hypers do behave that way

[fodjgngf]

I always thought Threaten was a flat reduction(#1).

[Tigeon]

I always thought Threaten was a flat reduction(#1).

I can say that is not true, because otherwise my damage wouldnt spike so much at chaos vellum.

I believe I was doing 3 mils, then when I threatened I started doing 9-10 mils.

[ShinkuDragon]

I can say that is not true, because otherwise my damage wouldnt spike so much at chaos vellum.

I believe I was doing 3 mils, then when I threatened I started doing 9-10 mils.

it could, depending on when it's applicable. if it's at the beginning (300-50=250) then yea, it won't, but if it were after your PDR was calculated it'd be a different story. say you had 85% PDR. 300*.15=45% left, -50%=0% defense. in this example, your damage almost doubles.

[Frostilyte]

It's been a few months since I last played, but the last time I played (December 2013) it was case 2 in both scenarios.

Threaten was the one (are there others?) exception to the normal hyper rule as far as I could tell.

[PoetryIsFail]

No idea but I could seemingly stack my threaten with another paladin's threaten when we went to c-vellum to test out our %hp defences. I managed to get my damage to jump from straight 1s to 999k lines if we both applied it.

[ShinkuDragon]

No idea but I could seemingly stack my threaten with another paladin's threaten when we went to c-vellum to test out our %hp defences. I managed to get my damage to jump from straight 1s to 999k lines if we both applied it.

that'd... be something.

but from what i'm getting is that only frosti seems sure of his answer

It's been a few months since I last played, but the last time I played (December 2013) it was case 2 in both scenarios.

Threaten was the one (are there others?) exception to the normal hyper rule as far as I could tell.

zerk is 1.3x damage, the hyper makes it 1.5 (+20%)

[Frostilyte]

that'd... be something.

but from what i'm getting is that only frosti seems sure of his answer



zerk is 1.3x damage, the hyper makes it 1.5 (+20%)

Ah ha. So there is another.

And only take it with a grain of salt.
I haven't taken a look at the actual game code and that'd be the only way to be 100% certain.
Plus I haven't played in 4 months, which is like 100 years in online game years.

[ShinkuDragon]

Ah ha. So there is another.

And only take it with a grain of salt.
I haven't taken a look at the actual game code and that'd be the only way to be 100% certain.
Plus I haven't played in 4 months, which is like 100 years in online game years.

yea, really the only way i'd be appeased is for someone to show the math.
second best is if a lot of people agreed on it (i'd still have my doubts, but not like i can test it myself)

[Niernen]

Anybody have a paladin they want to throw at CVellum for the cause?

[Even]

assumming chaos vellum, is it

300-30=270% PDR
or 300*(1-0.3)=210% PDR
?

aditionally with the hyper, which of these three is the correct way?

300-50=250% PDR
300*(1-0.5)=150% PDR
300*(1-0.3)*(1-0.2)=168% PDR

Those are the correct values for PDR hypers.
This thread: http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=72874&p made me disprove my friends theory & it didnt match if it was a pure 50% line, thus making 30% 20% lines separately the correct answer.

[Liable]

L>clarifications.

Mercedes' Spikes Royale have similar properties.

[ShinkuDragon]

Those are the correct values for PDR hypers.
This thread: http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=72874&p made me disprove my friends theory & it didnt match if it was a pure 50% line, thus making 30% 20% lines separately the correct answer.

you're quoting me, i remember that, however that's how attacking PDR hyper works. the same way an impale hyper of +20% damage to dark impale is actually a 20% total damage to be added to the pool.

but i'm unsure that threaten works that way because zerk (which is a buff in our case) has a 20% damage buff, but it's not 20% total damage, it literally increases the strength of zerk by 20% making it go from 1.3x multiplier to a 1.5x multiplier. so threaten which is a debuff and not an attack, might also work this way.

[iVege]

Threaten was the one (are there others?) exception to the normal hyper rule as far as I could tell.

It's less of an exception and more of just being completely different effects.

Threaten's hyper improves its PDR ignore effect, while others just add 20% PDR ignore to your attack. Some skills don't even have any PDR ignore without their hyper.

[Even]

you're quoting me, i remember that, however that's how attacking PDR hyper works. the same way an impale hyper of +20% damage to dark impale is actually a 20% total damage to be added to the pool.

but i'm unsure that threaten works that way because zerk (which is a buff in our case) has a 20% damage buff, but it's not 20% total damage, it literally increases the strength of zerk by 20% making it go from 1.3x multiplier to a 1.5x multiplier. so threaten which is a debuff and not an attack, might also work this way.

Im aware of that, but I aslo tested both values in the end.

The guy was playing a marksman and I was on my paladin while these are the pdr lines he had:

25% marksmanship
20% Snipe
10% Vital Hunter closest range
15% lumi link

That is 137.7% PDR left on vellum, and as you know you need to go past 100% to deal dmg. But if it was flat 300-50 to begin with it would get pushed down to 114,75%, that would mean he would still not do any dmg, but he did. So thats already proved

Because marksman have too much pdr that you cannot remove we used a phantom for the 30%+20% vs 50%.
The phantom had 20% PDR from a skill & 15% lumi link & 10% CRA hat.

With these lines and threaten acting like 30%+20% the leftover PDR on vellum was 102.8% and he wasnt dealing any dmg. If Threaten was flat 50% you would be left with 91.8% with the same PDR values and he would be dealing dmg if it worked like that.

Obviously I have no proof other than my testing and it COULD potentially be different in GMS, but Im guessing is the same in all servers.

[ShinkuDragon]

Im aware of that, but I aslo tested both values in the end.

The guy was playing a marksman and I was on my paladin while these are the pdr lines he had:

25% marksmanship
20% last man standing
10% Vital Hunter closest range
15% lumi link

That is 137.7% PDR left on vellum, and as you know you need to go past 100% to deal dmg. But if it was flat 300-50 to begin with it would get pushed down to 114,75%, that would mean he would still not do any dmg, but he did. So thats already proved (he used piece to avoid the snipe PDR ofc)

Because marksman have too much pdr that you cannot remove we used a phantom for the 30%+20% vs 50%.
The phantom had 20% PDR from a skill & 15% lumi link & 10% CRA hat.

With these lines and threaten acting like 30%+20% the leftover PDR on vellum was 102.8% and he wasnt dealing any dmg. If Threaten was flat 50% you would be left with 91.8% with the same PDR values and he would be dealing dmg if it worked like that.

Obviously I have no proof other than my testing and it COULD potentially be different in GMS, but Im guessing is the same in all servers.

it should work the same on all servers, i just wish you had screenshots X_X

[Even]

it should work the same on all servers, i just wish you had screenshots X_X

I cannot provide anything right now Im afraid, but if anyone wants to test, you dont need a paladin to check this. Threaten and spikes royale act the same way, so you can also test this with a mercedes (given that you got the hyper skill ofc)

Edit: Mercedes is very easy to test on aswell.

Crusader codex 30%
Defense break 25%
Spikes royale either 20%+20% or 40%

If its 20%+20% you should be left at 100,8% PDR, thats exactly not enough to deal dmg. But if its 40% you will be left at 94.5%.

Remember not to use ishtar ring if you test this, seeing how you might have the PDR hyper selected. I might provide some screenshots tomorrow if nobody has provided some by then.

[ShinkuDragon]

I cannot provide anything right now Im afraid, but if anyone wants to test, you dont need a paladin to check this. Threaten and spikes royale act the same way, so you can also test this with a mercedes (given that you got the hyper skill ofc)

Edit: Mercedes is very easy to test on aswell.

Crusader codex 30%
Defense break 25%
Spikes royale either 20%+20% or 40%

If its 20%+20% you should be left at 100,8% PDR, thats exactly not enough to deal dmg. But if its 40% you will be left at 94.5%.

Remember not to use ishtar ring if you test this, seeing how you might have the PDR hyper selected. I might provide some screenshots tomorrow if nobody has provided some by then.

i think my merc isn't high enough to go there (nor has the codex) so i have to wait for your results. godspeed