What's the current Ignore Defense Cap? Also is this good for Zero?

[IllegallySane]

Questions in title. I'm not sure how much Ignore Defense is enough for any character, or like Boss Damage it's almost never enough?

For the 2nd question: My Zero just got 30% Ignore Defense, 7% stats, and 7% STR for his weapon (so total of 60% Ignore Defense, 14% stats, and 14% STR). I plan to cube it some more tomorrow, but for now I'm wondering if this will suffice until I can get Legendary. Obviously using Black Cubes, because RNG INT%/LUK% on a STR based weapon can go suck it.

My previous option included 20% Boss Damage (so 40% Boss damage from the weapon). I'm not sure if I made a mistake or not in not keeping this option.

[Justin]

The 40% boss damage is more beneficial than the 60% defense ignore would be, depending on the boss. Most of the bosses I'm going to assume you'd be facing won't have more than 70% damage reduction, so you should just try for a boss line again.

[hadriel]

Depends greatly on what your current stats are. I would need to know how much PDRignore you currently have, how much %Boss/DMG you have, and what bosses you intend to fight regularly.

rambling about details

2*30%PDRignore =/= 60%PDRignore, which I'm sure (including you) would know by now. In essence there is no true cap to PDRignore, unless you are one of the few classes that have a 4th job skill that ignores 100% of a boss's PDR. This is why I always introduce the term "PDR reduction factor (PRF)", which gives a much better idea of what's going on. If you have a 30%PDRignore line, then PRF for that line is 0.7, the smaller the better. Multiply all the individual PRF sources together and then multiply a boss's PDR to it, and that's all the PDR the boss will be left with. It's basically taking the math forward one step to understand it more accurately. So for just Lapis and Lazuli, the combined PRF is 0.7*0.7 = 0.49 i.e. these 2 will halve the PDR of whatever boss you're fighting. Is that alot? Yes... only if your PRF before Lapis and Lazuli isn't so small that any smaller doesn't make a difference (like PRFall = 0.1 and newPRFall = 0.05 on a boss with only 40%PDR is hardly going to make a difference at all, like 2% increase in DPS).

Hadriel

[kayeyearekay]

Ignore Defense formula is multiplicative, and also asymptotic, we can never get to a calculated 100%. *NOTE* stat window shows ADDED ignore, and is not a true representation of the calculated value.

I asked a similar question in the %Warrior thread here, comparing %Ignore vs %Attack. bossing acts as a total damage effect, as do many many sources/skills/buffs in maplestory. with all the set bonus having bossing as well, in end-game setup, bossing damage becomes less of an increase. there is a 'super funded' best-case option to consider, but personally, i put attack on all my weapons, bossing neb, and settle for ~200% stat window ignore => ~90% calculated ignore. (~150% stat window ~= 80% ignore. this is "plenty" for most warriors). My goal right now is ~200% boss & ~200% ignore. my ignore comes from codex leafre set and link skills, and i'm a kaiser. only our toughest bosses have high ignore values, chaos vellum, chaos pink bean, hard magnus, hard hilla... this is the table i use http://forums.playpark.net/index.php...-damage-table/

super funded option:
regular potential ignore on all weapons; bonus potential %atk on "every possible item" (idk which can/can't); bossing from stacking set bouns

[IllegallySane]

Depends greatly on what your current stats are. I would need to know how much PDRignore you currently have, how much %Boss/DMG you have, and what bosses you intend to fight regularly.

rambling about details

2*30%PDRignore =/= 60%PDRignore, which I'm sure (including you) would know by now. In essence there is no true cap to PDRignore, unless you are one of the few classes that have a 4th job skill that ignores 100% of a boss's PDR. This is why I always introduce the term "PDR reduction factor (PRF)", which gives a much better idea of what's going on. If you have a 30%PDRignore line, then PRF for that line is 0.7, the smaller the better. Multiply all the individual PRF sources together and then multiply a boss's PDR to it, and that's all the PDR the boss will be left with. It's basically taking the math forward one step to understand it more accurately. So for just Lapis and Lazuli, the combined PRF is 0.7*0.7 = 0.49 i.e. these 2 will halve the PDR of whatever boss you're fighting. Is that alot? Yes... only if your PRF before Lapis and Lazuli isn't so small that any smaller doesn't make a difference (like PRFall = 0.1 and newPRFall = 0.05 on a boss with only 40%PDR is hardly going to make a difference at all, like 2% increase in DPS).

Hadriel

For my Zero, I got 91% Boss Att / 169% PDR for Alpha, and 141% Boss Att / 119% PDR for Beta. Yeah Boss Att and PDR is different for both of them, Beta gets 50% additional Boss Att, while Alpha gets 50% additional PDR.

My intended bosses to fight regularly are Gollux/Commerci/Hilla/Showa. First 2 are for loot, second 2 are for Elixir farming. May also do the lesser bosses if I'm really bored. Haven't done a real attempt at Arkanium yet. Unsure if I 'll even touch Magnus, even on Easy mode.

[Dudewitbow]

listing total PDR is not useful. PDR is calculated from the greatest % to the least %. a few 30%'s > a bunch of 10%'s

[IllegallySane]

listing total PDR is not useful. PDR is calculated from the greatest % to the least %. a few 30%'s > a bunch of 10%'s

Oh, my bad.

Let's see. I'll list them from highest to lowest for each:

Beta PDR:
30%
30%
15%
10%
10%
10%
6%
6%

Okay this is weird, I'm getting 117% total when my status window says 119%. Eh, whatever 2% won't make a huge difference.


Alpha also gets 50% PDR on top of all the amounts I mentioned if I'm currently using him.

So for Alpha it looks like this:
50%
30%
30%
15%
10%
10%
10%
6%
6%



I'm not sure how much a difference the last 6% PDR makes. The last 6% PDR is from Beast Tamer card, which I can possibly exchange out for something more beneficial.

[Dudewitbow]

pick an arbitrary boss with a PDEF value you actually care about for example I will pull out Gollux:

using this thread, im going to assume Gollux' pdr is 60% on hell. Hard hilla is 70%

using your values say for alpha on hell gollux:
60%(50%)=30%
30%(30%)=21%
30%(21%)=14.7%
15%(14.7)=12.495%
10%...=11.2455
10%=10.12095
10%=9.108855
6%=8.5623237
6%=8.048584278

which means your alpha will lose 8.05% of its range trying to hit hell gollux. these bosses have low pdr, so you gain more from boss % as you can see(as after 15%, gains become negligible)

to use a more extreme case like Chaos Pink Bean, you see the after effects of low Ignore pdf quickly using alpha again:
50%(180)=90%
30%=63%
30%=44.1%
15%=37.485%
10%=33.7365%
10%=30.36285%
10%=27.326565%
6%=25.69...
6%=24.15....

as you can see, lower %'s diminish in value, that alpha 50% ignore PDR is a blessing though. lets see how much damage beta loses vs CPB

30%(180)=126
30%=88.2
15%=74.97
10%=67.473
10%=60.7257
10%=54.65313
6%=52.467
6%=49.32


where you will almost lose 50% of your damage using beta on CPB. on the bosses you listed, you wont really need much Ignore PDR, but be aware that if you try to attempt higher pdr boses like Chaos Vellum or CPB, you will lose a chunk of damage.

[ShinkuDragon]

pick an arbitrary boss with a PDEF value you actually care about for example I will pull out Gollux:

using this thread, im going to assume Gollux' pdr is 60% on hell. Hard hilla is 70%

using your values say for alpha on hell gollux:
60%(50%)=30%
30%(30%)=21%
30%(21%)=14.7%
15%(14.7)=12.495%
10%...=11.2455
10%=10.12095
10%=9.108855
6%=8.5623237
6%=8.048584278

which means your alpha will lose 8.05% of its range trying to hit hell gollux. these bosses have low pdr, so you gain more from boss % as you can see(as after 15%, gains become negligible)

to use a more extreme case like Chaos Pink Bean, you see the after effects of low Ignore pdf quickly using alpha again:
50%(180)=90%
30%=63%
30%=44.1%
15%=37.485%
10%=33.7365%
10%=30.36285%
10%=27.326565%
6%=25.69...
6%=24.15....

as you can see, lower %'s diminish in value, that alpha 50% ignore PDR is a blessing though. lets see how much damage beta loses vs CPB

30%(180)=126
30%=88.2
15%=74.97
10%=67.473
10%=60.7257
10%=54.65313
6%=52.467
6%=49.32


where you will almost lose 50% of your damage using beta on CPB. on the bosses you listed, you wont really need much Ignore PDR, but be aware that if you try to attempt higher pdr boses like Chaos Vellum or CPB, you will lose a chunk of damage.

i personally prefer to calculate it out of 100%, so you can then use that number as your "actual PDR" and figure out all the other bosses.

i got: 73.171% PDR ignored and 86.585% ignored, you can then multiply these by the PDR value of a boss to figure out how much remaining PDR they'd have.

ex: 180*(1-0.73171)=48.2922% also, the bolded is wrong, you multiplied by 0.96 instead of 0.94 there, didn't check the previous examples.

[IllegallySane]

*math*

Thanks a ton for the work you put into the post. It really shows how big a difference PDR can make on certain bosses.

[Dudewitbow]

also, the bolded is wrong, you multiplied by 0.96 instead of 0.94 there, didn't check the previous examples.

closeenough.jpg (not like 2% difference matters much, I rounded it in the end with a statement)