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  1. Default Re: Free Public College


    That's the problem. The government will have to get rid of the schools that are useless. Somehow I doubt they would be able to, or if they somehow pull that off keeping it that way. The government doesn't exactly have a stellar track record for being able to implement and maintain...well a lot of things.

    My current scenario is actually exactly what Eos has mentioned, except add on no one gets fired unless you do something really stupid (like steal), so half the company is worthless and nothing gets done about it.

  2. Default Re: Free Public College


    Yeah we have that problem too.

  3. Default Re: Free Public College


    I like this idea provided that the positive externalities exceed the costs of implementation. Good luck measuring that, though

  4. Default Re: Free Public College


    It's fun, isn't it?

  5. Default Re: Free Public College


    From what I understand, universities that are public/have a lot higher acceptance rate actually tend to have a lot more work while private institutions tend to curve more and be more lenient. I think this correlates with what @SaptaZapta says about an entitlement to graduate. I like this idea, because it makes higher education more accessible, however I think it may end up creating an even bigger hierarchy gap between affordable universities and higher tier universities.


  6. Default Re: Free Public College


    If college was free, the people who were going to college despite getting tens of thousands in debt + have no job will now get to go to college with no debt + still no job. The ones that were denied an opportunity of college education will have access to it now. The keyword is access.

    I'm surprised people are against it when we've had budget cuts to education for years and tuition has been rising

    Having financial stability as the determining factor to getting higher education... that's got to be the most insensitive line of reasoning, something you would find in a poor country, not the richest, most spoiled, and world leading education-centric country on earth... Also, "it makes degrees in general a bit more trivial" is an even stupider reason because it fails to see education beyond an economic investment.

  7. Default Re: Free Public College


    Poor countries, like mine, are actually spending a lot in education, poor higher education though, in order to make it more accessible, profitable and sustainable because it'll make people get jobs easier. Technical degrees take no time and nearly no money to get here; people who get them all they become is trained workers that can follow instructions and a lot of money is going into that. When it comes to university and professional degrees, or quality higher education, we have what you describe to some extent. And politicians are trying really hard to change it so that only upper middle class and above can get a professional degree... which is funny because our constitution says that higher education should be provided by the government to make it easily accessible, fair, quality and so on. Anyway, it isn't only insensitive but antidemocratic too. Education should be an option available for everyone no matter what.

    The second part reminds me of Swerve's post questioning the intrinsic value of modern curricula, or school or education, or whatever... which makes me think that education has already been trivialized to an economic investment and unless one's truly interested in improving one self nothing is going to change that mindset. Not even school. It's up to each individual to decide if there's something beyond that economic investment or not... and why would they, when their whole world is telling them just that, and also it's much more simple and comfortable to believe it's something you paid for to get a job and nothing else.

  8. Default Re: Free Public College


    I'm curious...
    What do you think is going to happen when the government completely funds public college?

    Budget cuts.

    I think it's interesting that people cry for the government to keep its hands out of their business all the time in the US, yet they change their opinion very quickly when it's going to "benefit" them at face value. If the government is going to be funding it, that means it's going to be their way, which most people are against once it actually happens.

  9. Default


    If public school became free, it would change market dynamics beyond a simple supply and demand mechanic with respect to jobs. Due to the immense influence that private sector banking has on our economy, aspects of banking w.r.t. loans would drastically change and warp the entire stability of our current country. Specifically speaking, I suspect that debt-related agencies and debt-related investments that provide students with initial payment and/or utilize student debt as an investment for stockholders to trade on market as products like CDOs will react negatively with the news and result in major fluctuations with them trending to low values. Our government has taken major efforts to stabilize post subprime America via huge buy backs of mortgage backed securities in order to bring life back to the housing market. However, I suspect that there are still plenty of investments that remain toxic and completely changing the game would expose the lack of liquidity affecting investor confidence and resulting in shorting and downgrading from respective agencies. Polantaris has made a lot of spot on comments that I agree with, however I think it's interesting to see the word budget cuts being used in context with The Federal Reserve pouring $40-80 billion a month. What budgets are going to be cut? Whose going to enact austerity measures and how is this going to balance the proverbial check book?

  10. Nuclear testing facility Straight Male
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    Default Re: Free Public College


    I think @Sardines; has a point, though some of the economic repercussions go over my head. Assuming there is notice of the implementation of this program and that it doesn't occur retroactively to erase current debt, what are the likely outcomes? Obviously it will no longer treated as a commodity since it won't exist, but wouldn't that just shift investment elsewhere? There's already a lot of instability in the student debt market due to defaults especially with students that flunk out or graduate and are unable to find work. Now that I think about it, these people are probably driving up the cost of education by inflating loan interest rates to recoup the loss from defaults.

    There seems to be very little discussion of the changes to public university entrance. If it becomes free, but enrollment remains constant due to locking in current funding levels, what exactly is going to change? We already completely fund tuition and living expenses for low income students. They will continue applying just as before. High income students will likely trend more towards private universities as they already do. Their would be relatively little change in their financial status due to eliminating tuition at public universities.

    The real changes will be for middle class families. These families do not currently qualify for much if any financial aid and incur the greatest amount of debt. On the other hand, they are also the best performing demographic academically, mostly due to parental involvement. This means that public universities will likely see an increase in applications and enrollment of middle class students who are often the best qualified to attend. Now this could easily change from current performance due to decreased motivation since they no longer have the financial pressure to succeed. But it could simultaneously reduce financial stress and work hours which would correspondingly increase performance. I have no idea which trend would win out and I'm sure there are flaws with this reasoning, but I'd like to generate more discussion on it.

    I'm not really getting where people predict graduation entitlement. We already have that. Check some of Colorado's laws regarding teacher fault when students receive failing grades. We already have a social problem where employers require degrees for everything and individuals think everyone belongs in college. Making university free may encourage this trend, but the increased standards for enrollment which I believe are an essential consequence should mitigate it. If the standards are strict enough, it may even reverse the trend.

    PS. @Polantaris; The US doesn't exactly have a history of balanced budgets so I see no reason to expect one after implementing this plan. Why would we be cutting anything? If you believe the original author (I don't), we'd be spending exactly the same amount of money.

  11. Default Re: Free Public College


    The US not having a balanced budget is the problem. The next time the government shuts down (which is practically every year at this point), they'll start axing budgets for random crap. What exactly is going to stop them from choosing the school funding, simply because, "Well, they can use less funding," then, "They can use even less funding, they don't need that much."

  12. Nuclear testing facility Straight Male
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    Default Re: Free Public College


    The whole point of this thread is saying "what if public universities were free?". Saying they won't be free for more than a year because our politicians are plantains is hardly in line with this mostly hypothetical discussion. It kind of defeats the purpose of having this topic at all.

  13. Default Re: Free Public College


    Unless it happens 50 years from now, almost every point made will be still valid, because things don't change that fast when politics are involved.

  14. GLADIGATORS
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    Default Re: Free Public College


    This thread presents the hypothetical situation of "what if public universities were free".

    In this situation, public universities are already free, so given what you've just said, it would take a long time for public universities to not be free, because things don't change that fast when politics are involved.

  15. Default Re: Free Public College


    I frequently wonder if I'm on the same thread as everyone else.

  16. Default Re: Free Public College


    We often wonder if you are too.

  17. Default Re: Free Public College


    Some day.

  18. Default Re: Free Public College


    I never said that it will take 50 years to implement such a plan, just that nothing that's been said here would be any different unless it took at least that long to implement.

    They could do it in 5, 10, 15, or anything in between, and pretty much everything said here would still be valid unless it came with a civil war or some other country-wide upheaval that changed everything about the government.

  19. Default Re: Free Public College


    Well they did randomly cut the CoL from military, although it's been reversed I think.

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