The result of the last meso exploit (RIP lMira)

[Encyclopedic]

Because their survivability as well as their control of it peaks with mobs.

Survivability? HP barely means everything on the new bosses, and when it does matter you can just throw your money at your HP and it'll increase, as with everything in this game.

[Takebacker]

Survivability? HP barely means everything on the new bosses, and when it does matter you can just throw your money at your HP and it'll increase, as with everything in this game.

It doesn't sound like you have any clue what i'm talking about. Post some more until you do.

[ShinkuDragon]

Because their survivability as well as their control of it peaks with mobs.

@ShinkuDragon;

He can verify but even at mobbing darks are still at the bottom, in fact I think both warrior classes outright outdo them.

pretty much what takebacker said, right now we are dead at the bottom, our only remarkable thing is our healing skill, which even though it only has a 20% chance of triggering or somewhere around there, it can trigger once per mob hit, and has a chance to trigger on every line (basically, if i dark impale a single mob, it's around a 60% chance to heal 50% of my hp)

really though, that's pretty much our only plus, mobbing wise DrK's are still pretty blergh

oh, and that survivability goes down the drain if the boss loves spamming seduce, which is what reincarnation fixes somewhat. the other two adventurer warriors also mob 1.5x-ish better than us.
http://www.southperry.net/showthread...20Unleashed%29

[xparasite9]

oh, and that survivability goes down the drain if the boss loves spamming seduce, which is what reincarnation fixes somewhat.

How does that create a balance, though? Looks to me like it just peels the "dark knight" label off of one side of the balance and swaps it with the other.

Honestly I wonder just how their development teams are organized.

[ShinkuDragon]

Because their survivability as well as their control of it peaks with mobs.

@ShinkuDragon;

He can verify but even at mobbing darks are still at the bottom, in fact I think both warrior classes outright outdo them.

How does that create a balance, though? Looks to me like it just peels the "dark knight" label off of one side of the balance and swaps it with the other.

Honestly I wonder just how their development teams are organized.

it doesn't, as the other guy said your first point of this game being a rollercoaster of nerfs/buffs is completely true, this particular patch however -saves- drk's (if only until the next one) which was what you said this patch didn't.

thaat said, balance between hero/drk/pally (damage wise) is extremely good in RED. pallies are overdone defense-wise however.

[Takebacker]

pretty much what takebacker said, right now we are dead at the bottom, our only remarkable thing is our healing skill, which even though it only has a 20% chance of triggering or somewhere around there, it can trigger once per mob hit, and has a chance to trigger on every line (basically, if i dark impale a single mob, it's around a 60% chance to heal 50% of my hp)

really though, that's pretty much our only plus, mobbing wise DrK's are still pretty blergh

oh, and that survivability goes down the drain if the boss loves spamming seduce, which is what reincarnation fixes somewhat. the other two adventurer warriors also mob 1.5x-ish better than us.
http://www.southperry.net/showthread...20Unleashed%29

They're also the only non-kaiser warrior who can ignore/bypass damage reflect, despite it being time limited. (sanctuary doesn't count, you aren't casting that to do damage if you're stupid enough to have it line up with DR being active)

Seduce isn't really so bad. Hero's will and sacrifice share the same cooldown (and hero's will goes down 60 seconds with decCO), so if you can't survive more than a single seduce in the first place then it really doesn't matter how "terrible" you are compared to heros/pallys in a situation you won't always be in for them to constantly "wreak" you.

[ShinkuDragon]

They're also the only non-kaiser warrior who can ignore/bypass damage reflect, despite it being time limited. (sanctuary doesn't count, you aren't casting that to do damage if you're stupid enough to have it line up with DR being active)

Seduce isn't really so bad. Hero's will and sacrifice share the same cooldown (and hero's will goes down 60 seconds with decCO), so if you can't survive more than a single seduce in the first place then it really doesn't matter how "terrible" you are compared to heros/pallys in a situation you won't always be in for them to constantly "wreak" you.

...what?

hero's will lasts 360 sec CD, DCO brings it to 300 ( 6 and 5 mins respectively) sacrifice has no cooldown, but relies on beholder, which has a CD of just 60 seconds. i need you to explain what you were trying to say here, i'm honestly confused.

[Takebacker]

...what?

hero's will lasts 360 sec CD, DCO brings it to 300 ( 6 and 5 mins respectively) sacrifice has no cooldown, but relies on beholder, which has a CD of just 60 seconds. i need you to explain what you were trying to say here, i'm honestly confused.

Down 60 seconds. Not down to 60 seconds.

The rest strengthens my point. DrKs are better than everyone thinks, better than the top tier everyone thinks they are.

[KhainiWest]

Down 60 seconds. Not down to 60 seconds.

The rest strengthens my point. DrKs are better than everyone thinks, better than the top tier everyone thinks they are.

Shut up, dont let them know that, :(

[ShinkuDragon]

Down 60 seconds. Not down to 60 seconds.

The rest strengthens my point. DrKs are better than everyone thinks, better than the top tier everyone thinks they are.

i still don't know what your point was though! if you mean survival-wise, then i have to say yes and no, anywhere where reincarnation would save your ass you're pretty much gonna get boned again before the cooldown ends (say, chaos root abyss and it's lulzy 100% damage), that's the "no" part. doesn't stop reincarnation from being miles better than sacrosanctity in my books however due to it only triggering when you want it to trigger (i still don't know if you're immune to status effects while reincarnated/sacro'd, if a pally would answer?)

it mixing with hero's will to give 2 seduce saves every 360 seconds (less, since you spend 25 seconds invincible) is a very welcome boost, since bosses don't really spam seduce nowadays unless you really derp it up (owl statue, cht arm, etc)
that's the yes part.

the problem i have with paladins is more about how this game works, where everything you either survive and repot inmediately, or die in one hit, pallies being able to survive any hit means they can simply repot, this flaw in the game makes that one skill extremely OP if root abyss had something like a potion cooldown (even as short as magnus') i'd be singing a very different song.

[Takebacker]

i still don't know what your point was though! if you mean survival-wise, then i have to say yes and no, anywhere where reincarnation would save your ass you're pretty much gonna get boned again before the cooldown ends (say, chaos root abyss and it's lulzy 100% damage), that's the "no" part. doesn't stop reincarnation from being miles better than sacrosanctity in my books however due to it only triggering when you want it to trigger (i still don't know if you're immune to status effects while reincarnated/sacro'd, if a pally would answer?)

I already said my point. :(

I'm assuming reincarnation is uninterruptable by anything.

RED made it so if you didn't have the ability to avoid 100% attacks (regardless of class), now you do. In this respect every single warrior is balanced. They all have a respectable level of horizontal mobility (slipstream, kaiser double jump, no target req rush, those few attacks hayato has, DS/DA glide and/or rush) through a mix of at least 1 of these options. I don't think ohko attacks are really a problem (far from it actually, the vast majority of them are easily avoided) unless we're talking about full map attacks like emp gen but that's not ohko anymore anyway. To this i say it is an inflated threat that everyone has to deal with, yet DrKs having reincarnation makes ohko attacks existing at all a benefit because it's instant DPS.

the problem i have with paladins is more about how this game works, where everything you either survive and repot inmediately, or die in one hit, pallies being able to survive any hit means they can simply repot, this flaw in the game makes that one skill extremely OP if root abyss had something like a potion cooldown (even as short as magnus') i'd be singing a very different song.

I agree. Pallys are extremely good, and it's really hard to say DrKs are better in all areas even if they didn't have bind.

[ShinkuDragon]

I already said my point. :(

I'm assuming reincarnation is uninterruptable by anything.

RED made it so if you didn't have the ability to avoid 100% attacks (regardless of class), now you do. In this respect every single warrior is balanced. They all have a respectable level of horizontal mobility (slipstream, kaiser double jump, no target req rush, those few attacks hayato has, DS/DA glide and/or rush) through a mix of at least 1 of these options. I don't think ohko attacks are really a problem (far from it actually, the vast majority of them are easily avoided) unless we're talking about full map attacks like emp gen but that's not ohko anymore anyway. To this i say it is an inflated threat that everyone has to deal with, yet DrKs having reincarnation makes ohko attacks existing at all a benefit because it's instant DPS.



I agree. Pallys are extremely good, and it's really hard to say DrKs are better in all areas even if they didn't have bind.

indeed, i don't think dark knights will eat 1hko attacks for the 25 seconds of spamming though, unless they're really confident they can dodge all the other 1hko attacks in the 6 minute frame.
i've heard that the invincibility can be extended with buff duration, which would end up pretty neat since the 50% everybody's aiming for would end up giving 37 seconds of invincibility (and a bit more due to server lag i guess) and the reduce CD hyper leaves reinc as 4 minutes and 48 seconds, or just 4 minutes 10 secs by removing the invincibility duration

this is also part of why i'm waiting for this revamp, lots of new mechanics to test and have fun with.

[xparasite9]

and allegedly the Mercedes Character Card effect description is incorrect, and that the actual restriction is that cooldowns cannot be made shorter than five seconds (rather than what the text implies, that cooldown reductions are capped at a 5 second decrease)

So I guess that's 4 minutes 34 seconds, or minus the invincibility it's effectively 3 minutes 57 seconds, off the top of my head?