[KMST] KMST 1.2.483 - Zero (2)

[lulzace]

- Those new IUs: Suddendly I want Cannoneer to turn Hilla into the Bright side.
- That's probably the biggest damage buff I've ever seen. But for a class which main feature are combos I don't think killing too fst helps.
- All those NPC. There are too many to belong uniquely to mirror world. I ope by the end of RED, the game's plot has been developed a lot for all characters.

What does that first thing mean?

[IcyHaze]

They start at Level 100! Any "slow progress" is easily made up by the fact that you skip the first 100 levels in the game.

lol@first100levels

That is only something worth drooling over if you are starting maple on a clean new account. Assuming you do not start at level 1 on jobs that ain't the "release/OPly revamp" of the moment, reaching lv100 for any job is a joke. Take a look at light luminous. Literally spoonfed with exp from quest all the way, not to mention the job itself WAS OP in regards to mobbing. Not a single MP pot was consumed in reaching lv120. That shows how much mobs I had to kill to level.

Oh before you say anything, no I am not saying zero deserve to be so much more OP because they are stuck in mirrorworld. Just thought I should point out "starting at lv100" is as much of an excuse as "stuck in mirror world"

I myself am surprised by the 100wa from beta. But I mean has anyone gotten down to calculate the dps yet? This set of buff is tremendous. Maybe zero really suffer in terms of dps wise thus they are getting all these buff.

You can't wait for bossing video of zero? Sorry you had gotta wait a few days at the very least for those hardcore who know what they are doing to finish all the quest at around 180-182. Before that no drop/exp for zero so I doubt anyone will do anything except maybe a zak run to show off. This is what you get for being stuck in mirror world.

[Spadow]

You can't wait for bossing video of zero? Sorry you had gotta wait a few days at the very least for those hardcore who know what they are doing to finish all the quest at around 180-182. Before that no drop/exp for zero so I doubt anyone will do anything except maybe a zak run to show off. This is what you get for being stuck in mirror world.

Although it is Zakum.

Stat info of the user

The last type of Zero's weapon gives 30% boss damage. However, this user has 8% extra boss damage from additional options making it up to 38% boss damage per weapon.
His Zero-Alpha has 116% boss damage while his Zero-Beta has 146%.

[Polantaris]

The way you are putting it, I'm just going to have to agree to disagree with you. You're just trying to find things to yell at nexon for. You both reinforced my opinion and shot it down at the same time by bashing nexon on both terms. It's plain stupid if i cant have a discussing without you going on tangents.
Think what you want. I probably wont be complaining either. Baffling, isnt it?

To be honest, I misread your original comment about Zero training. I thought you were saying it was exclusively hard for Zero, and no one else, because of the Mirror World thing, but you were (unless I misread it again) actually saying that its harder for Zero than anyone else because they can't do bossing and PQs like everyone else. For that, I apologize.

But, honestly, it doesn't really excuse them making Zero stronger. There are alternatives. They can make the Mirror World better or easier to work with. They can give Zeros their own bosses to do dailies for. They can give them their own Mirror World PQs. Buffing an already extremely strong class is not an acceptable solution to this problem in my book. Zero is still in the test server, which means these videos of crazy damage and beating bosses without even trying haven't even begun to get insane yet, and they were all of the previous version (the ones I saw, at least), before this buff.

You might not be one that will complain, and congrats for that, but when it hits the live servers, or GMS, or hell, even JMS, and we start hitting the people with unlimited funds who throw their money at Nexon to do maximum damage...we will see the most insane crap and there will be people complaining far worse than I am. I may be making large posts, and defending my point a lot, but that's what I do, even if I don't really care all that much, everyone probably knows that about me at this point. We already have a KMST video posted above this by Spadow with someone who isn't even trying to kill Zakum and the video is still less than 70 seconds. How much of that is actually fighting? 10 seconds? Maybe 15? And this is KMST. The insanity hasn't even begun yet.

[byakugan]

What does that first thing mean?

If you mean the Hilla part, its becaise Cannoneer is the Johnny Bravo of MS. He had a crush on Orchid, Mercedes and even Cygnus I think (... In some of Nexon's promotional banners)

Please tell me it was that players mistake on using Alpha for this fight. I don't want to think Beta is useless even in the field she is supposed to shine.

[Daakun]

They oneshot the arms and the first body.
I don't think which character they're using matters too much for Zakum when you're rocking like 140% str and over 100% boss damage. :p

[Bomber]

To be honest, I misread your original comment about Zero training. I thought you were saying it was exclusively hard for Zero, and no one else, because of the Mirror World thing, but you were (unless I misread it again) actually saying that its harder for Zero than anyone else because they can't do bossing and PQs like everyone else. For that, I apologize.

But, honestly, it doesn't really excuse them making Zero stronger. There are alternatives. They can make the Mirror World better or easier to work with. They can give Zeros their own bosses to do dailies for. They can give them their own Mirror World PQs. Buffing an already extremely strong class is not an acceptable solution to this problem in my book. Zero is still in the test server, which means these videos of crazy damage and beating bosses without even trying haven't even begun to get insane yet, and they were all of the previous version (the ones I saw, at least), before this buff.

You might not be one that will complain, and congrats for that, but when it hits the live servers, or GMS, or hell, even JMS, and we start hitting the people with unlimited funds who throw their money at Nexon to do maximum damage...we will see the most insane crap and there will be people complaining far worse than I am. I may be making large posts, and defending my point a lot, but that's what I do, even if I don't really care all that much, everyone probably knows that about me at this point. We already have a KMST video posted above this by Spadow with someone who isn't even trying to kill Zakum and the video is still less than 70 seconds. How much of that is actually fighting? 10 seconds? Maybe 15? And this is KMST. The insanity hasn't even begun yet.

Yeah, im sure a lot of people will complain. I mean an unfunded zero solos easy magnus.....

Please tell me it was that players mistake on using Alpha for this fight. I don't want to think Beta is useless even in the field she is supposed to shine.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't even trying that much.

[IcyHaze]

If you mean the Hilla part, its becaise Cannoneer is the Johnny Bravo of MS. He had a crush on Orchid, Mercedes and even Cygnus I think (... In some of Nexon's promotional banners)



Please tell me it was that players mistake on using Alpha for this fight. I don't want to think Beta is useless even in the field she is supposed to shine.

Max timeforce is 100? Beta skills cost 17time force which is 51time force for a full chain?

Maybe spadow can shed some light on whether timeforce is a constraint when using beta during bossing. Only Alpha enjoy timeforce replenishment per hit from the passive if I am not reading it wrong.

[Spadow]

Max timeforce is 100? Beta skills cost 17time force which is 51time force for a full chain?

Maybe spadow can shed some light on whether timeforce is a constraint when using beta during bossing. Only Alpha enjoy timeforce replenishment per hit from the passive if I am not reading it wrong.

Max Time Force isn't 100. I have 130 on my Zero in the test server and so does the player in the Zakum video.
Time Force replenishes insanely fast. I would not consider this an issue.

[ZeekFox]

Max Time Force isn't 100. I have 130 on my Zero in the test server and so does the player in the Zakum video.
Time Force replenishes insanely fast. I would not consider this an issue.

Except that 130's just for Alpha. Beta only has 100. You can see it when the user tags, which also changes the HP from Alpha's 34K to Beta's 29K.

The guy in the video spends as much time with Beta as he does with Alpha. Though he starts with Alpha, the first two attacks are the team attack ultimate anyway. Then he tags back and forth twice, spending maybe 10 seconds attacking with each character.

And Beta's advantage at bossing doesn't really matter here. 100% stance doesn't matter for a 30 second boss run, and neither does 30% status resistance or a chance to put up a shield that blocks up to 50% HP worth of damage. Now if this were Chaos Zakum...

[JoeTang]

There's still a few things I need clarification on for my %/s, but I wanted to comment about the buffs.
With regards to the massive +100 WATK for Great Sword Mastery vs Tachi Mastery's +50 WATK, quite frankly, for a weapon size and design difference that big, the attack difference should be significantly higher than 44.
In regards to the actual +100 and +50 values, the Great Sword is always Slower (8), with Mastery, it's Normal (6). The Tachi is Normal (6) and Faster (3) with Mastery. Every class has access to faster weapons than Great Swords, so they're at a significant disadvantage in that regard, though their potential to be good is high if you can get Speed Infusion and Advanced Yellow Aura or Inner Ability.
Keep in mind that Heros have +60 WATK (though 30 is from sharable Rage), and a pomegranateton of % to begin with, Paladins have +110 WATK, Dark Knights have +70. Having +100 WATK from their only source of skill WATK isn't that significant. It's also better balance as gear plays a slightly smaller role in damage, whereas if you gave them a higher damage multiplier, and even more % on attacks, funded people would be significantly stronger than they already are, and less funded would be worse off. Another 100 WATK when you have 274 base is less of a deal compared to when you have 174 base.


As for things I need clarification for, if @Spadow, @HighOnMushrooms, or anyone with KMST could answer these:
For Rapid Time's cooldown reductions, the videos I've seen do not appear to show a lot of skills on any of the visible quick keys, making it a bit difficult to judge. It states that whenever you attack, your attacking skill cooldowns are reduced by 3 seconds, though this does not appear to apply to Shadow Rain? When it refers to attack, does it mean each time you start a combo or for every new skill? i.e. Moon Strike/Flash Assaulter/Rolling Curve/Wind Cutter and Upper Slash/Power Stamp/Front Slash/Giga Crash? If it were every skill itself, I would expect Moon Strike -> Piercing Thrust -> Shadow Strike to completely remove the cooldown on Rolling Curve, as that's 3 attacks = 9 seconds, plus the time to activate all three, but I don't see this in videos. Plus, I would expect in this case Whirlwind to destroy cooldowns as it's a keydown skill (which Nexon states attacks at 100ms, though there is a variable x = 150, but that could refer to movement speed).

The other thing I need clarification for is how is Time Force regenerated? How much do you gain every say 1 second? 10 seconds? Does Beta regain any from attacking or is that exclusively from Alpha's Combat Recovery? I notice that when a character is Assisting, they don't appear to use any Time Force for their skills?

And finally, Beta's skills that cause Shockwaves (specifically Jumping Crash, Advanced/Earth Break), do those shockwaves actually have a delay, or can you perform actions immediately as the shockwaves appear?

[lulzace]

If you mean the Hilla part, its becaise Cannoneer is the Johnny Bravo of MS. He had a crush on Orchid, Mercedes and even Cygnus I think (... In some of Nexon's promotional banners)



Please tell me it was that players mistake on using Alpha for this fight. I don't want to think Beta is useless even in the field she is supposed to shine.

Ahh. I figured that was what you meant. For some reason UI made me think about the new kms equip inventory :P

And is it just me or does it seem like Beta is being shafted? Not by people but by the way her skills are?

@JoeTang: Are you specifically referring to giving both Zero's a higher multiplier or that if you just do that to a class in general that would be the outcome? Well the latter is true regardless I guess...


And can anyone explain to me exactly how the assist is triggered?

[Cei]

Yeah, im sure a lot of people will complain. I mean an unfunded zero solos easy magnus.....

I'm pretty sure he wasn't even trying that much.

Well I'm pretty sure that Zero has over 3,000 STR, and has over 111k range, so I'm not sure if unfunded. The one soloing zakum that is.

[Spadow]

As for things I need clarification for, if @<u><a href="http://www.southperry.net/member.php?u=75" target="_blank">Spadow</a></u>, @<u><a href="http://www.southperry.net/member.php?u=3186" target="_blank">HighOnMushrooms</a></u>, or anyone with KMST could answer these:
For Rapid Time's cooldown reductions, the videos I've seen do not appear to show a lot of skills on any of the visible quick keys, making it a bit difficult to judge. It states that whenever you attack, your attacking skill cooldowns are reduced by 3 seconds, though this does not appear to apply to Shadow Rain? When it refers to attack, does it mean each time you start a combo or for every new skill? i.e. Moon Strike/Flash Assaulter/Rolling Curve/Wind Cutter and Upper Slash/Power Stamp/Front Slash/Giga Crash? If it were every skill itself, I would expect Moon Strike -> Piercing Thrust -> Shadow Strike to completely remove the cooldown on Rolling Curve, as that's 3 attacks = 9 seconds, plus the time to activate all three, but I don't see this in videos. Plus, I would expect in this case Whirlwind to destroy cooldowns as it's a keydown skill (which Nexon states attacks at 100ms, though there is a variable x = 150, but that could refer to movement speed).

I don't have Shadow Rain available since I'm not level 170. The cooldown reduction appears for every new skill. I used Rolling Curve and then I immediately used Moon Strike -> Piercing Thrust -> Shadow Strike. The cooldown rapidly decreased.

The other thing I need clarification for is how is Time Force regenerated? How much do you gain every say 1 second? 10 seconds? Does Beta regain any from attacking or is that exclusively from Alpha's Combat Recovery? I notice that when a character is Assisting, they don't appear to use any Time Force for their skills?

Nexon said you regenerate Time Force really fast. In Tag you regenerate Time Force twice as fast. In the description for Combat Recovery, it states that it increases Alpha's Time Force regeneration rate by 30%. Also it states that when you attack enemies, there is a 25% chance to regenerate 10 Time Force.

In other words, you don't have to worry running out of Time Force because it regenerates insanely fast.

And finally, Beta's skills that cause Shockwaves (specifically Jumping Crash, Advanced/Earth Break), do those shockwaves actually have a delay, or can you perform actions immediately as the shockwaves appear?

To help you with your questions, I made a video for you. Hopefully it's useful for your research:

[hadriel]

---snip---

So THAT'S how you spam Time Rewind/Time Holding combo. OK this is getting a little too much for me. Thanks alot.

Hadriel

[Spadow]

So THAT'S how you spam Time Rewind/Time Holding combo. OK this is getting a little too much for me. Thanks alot.

Hadriel

What? Those skills that you mentioned are Transcendent Skills. Time Rewind's cooldown kicks in when you die. Time Holding has a cooldown of 180 seconds.
You can't spam these skills except for Time Rewind, but that's useless.

[hadriel]

What? Those skills that you mentioned are Transcendent Skills. Time Rewind's cooldown kicks in when you die. Time Holding has a cooldown of 180 seconds.
You can't spam these skills except for Time Rewind, but that's useless.

Apparently, they can tank Arkarium's 999k attack.

Not quite useless IMO.

Hadriel

[Spadow]

Not quite useless IMO.

Hadriel

I know Time Rewind isn't useless. You can spam the skill which will turn it off/on. What I meant was that spamming it on and off is useless.

[hadriel]

I know Time Rewind isn't useless. You can spam the skill which will turn it off/on. What I meant was that spamming it on and off is useless.

In the video, the guy uses Time Rewind to tank Arky's 1HKO attack. Then he uses Time Holding to reset Time Rewind's CD; and Time Holding now goes into a 180 second cooldown. But he used 3 instances of Time Holding to reset Time Rewind's cooldowns within that 3 minutes to tank 4 of Arky's 1HKO attacks (last one was during Time Holding's invulnerability).

I wasn't literally saying spamming Time Rewind, because that would be dumb. I really did mean a Time Rewind-Time Holding combo.

Hadriel

[Hanabira.Kage]

It seems to me that the only way they can make tanks like Beta!Zero and Paladin viable would be to change the way damage is calculated. Make defence worth so much more than it is now (IIRC, it was approximately 1 DEF = -0.5 damage, right?), and while they're at it they should make accuracy and avoidability significant factors in calculating hit rate again, though probably not to as large an extent as pre-BBP so as to not screw over non-DEX/LUK classes.