To those for the Aliens/Jesters/LHC Nerf

[koplje]

Same thing applies to LHC. No one is forcing you to use those party play area's. If you wanna be anti-social/a loner/what have you, be my guest. You can still train at other places without having to *gasp* join a party. Actually this part is funny because those same people who are for the LHC party play nerf, use SH,HOH, Twilight Perion. Bunch of hypocrites, lol.

I can socialize more with ghost pirates in Ludi than I can with random people at LHC. I was also turned off by LHC because it's literally the slowest thing ever unless you have a good party. I could never find a party that could actually take down crockies in decent times.

[Evolite]

I'm more mad about them suddenly closing Monster Park Extreme. Sure the exp was too OP. But this place has other benefits such as those buff potions, easy 4%stat armors and most importantly, Greed Pendant. Now I can't farm these items anymore...

[PirateIzzy]

What sucks is, some people are still oblivious to non-NLC spots. Someone level 74 in my alliance was still buying door to Aliens. I told him that there were other spots, and he said "They're still the best spot at level 74"
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[Moonlapse]

The only thing I regret about this is that I will have to spend more time with link skill mules and less time with my main. Otherwise I agree with everyone else, and I especially agree about LHC.

[Even]

I think you're forgetting that most content that was added since jump includes some source of exp. Monster park have been through many revamps and at this point its REALLY good exp even by soloing, you can buy 5 tickets per day and hunt pieces when you do other things. Theres also Evo world & dimension invasion (at level 100 and 140) which is pretty decent exp to level 160ish. Nerfing exp at one location is way for a dev to say: Hey we got other content to explore, try them please, Im sure you'll enjoy them!

Also when it comes to game developing its the dev's job to make sure that the content you release arent too good or so bad that nobody will use it. You could compare this to classes ingame and anyone would be stupid to not agree with this. Why make a bow master when marksman have better mobbing skills, better 1vs1 dpm & the same party buff as a bow master? Why make a hero when kaiser can attack through dr, can transform into a dragon with teleport skill and at the same time act like a ranged job?

This discussion could go on for days so its better just to leave it if OP dont get it already.

[YennoX]

I find it hilarious how the attitudes have changed from a year or so ago, when everyone was worried that LHC would be made non-party play if we followed KMS. This hivemind reactions are priceless when you have a few select extremely vocal players, and then others start kissing ass to join the club.

I personally couldn't care less. I hardly train anymore in this game.

[EvirtuaNexus]

The nerf they did to aliens imo was waaaay too much. Considering the fact that everywhere in comparison was disproportionate is completely justified, but I shouldn't be getting the same exp from a lvl 90 mob off of something I get off a level 60 mob. Leveling should get slow around 100+, I agree with that though. They should have nerfed them but boost the exp you get a little from other mobs around that level too.

LHC was bound to happen. To be quite honest, the same pomegranate happened with galloperas with the same people white knighting and the same people complaining. Nexon will just make another area that's very imbalanced and will give ridiculous amount of experience. It's a cycle.

[MissingLink]

Us having the party play mobs. I could have done them, but it would probably take months since you need like 200 mob drops.

Whaaaat?
No way. I could collect several sets of 200 reindeers spears in an evenings training. I made a fair bit of mesos (for me) selling sets of 200 spears for 15M to tha lazy but rich types.

[MetaSeraphim]

It's gonna be weird training up a Xenon and DA without godly spots, but it ain't no big deal.

[Zerard]

Whaaaat?
No way. I could collect several sets of 200 reindeers spears in an evenings training. I made a fair bit of mesos (for me) selling sets of 200 spears for 15M to tha lazy but rich types.

This is a personal gripe, so please forgive me for anything I may say, but that was another thing that I couldn't stand seeing- the selling of the drops from LHC mobs. Now, residing in Scania, LHC was full on all maps, all channels, 100% of the time. I wanted to see if the theme dungeon was doable on my Cannoneer. When I got to the quest that told me to collect 200 crockie helmets, I lost all hope. Parties were all over these maps, making it literally impossible to go any further. Then some days later, I start looking through the free market for... I forget what (maybe it was a mastery book), and what do I see. Helmets, selling for millions of mesos. This was, in my personal opinion, ridiculous. Why should someone like me, who simply wanted to complete the quest line, need to by monster loot to progress. This wasn't what Nexon Korea had originally intended; they didn't plan for LHC to remain a party play zone so players could take advantage of the questline and have other players at their mercy. No. The appeal of LHC for me was lost, as for that time, it was full of the brim with rude and inconsiderate players who didn't much care for anyone else but themselves. But imagine my surprise when I saw that LHC was being converted to it's intended state! Me, along with many others could finally complete the quest line to obtain a class specific mastery book and a nice looking medal (not necessarily my Cannoneer, but any character I choose).

Believe me, there are far better alternatives, like it's been said time and time again. Funfact: I got to level 190-200 on my Dark Knight by Evo World and Evo World alone. No Stronghold. No LHC. Ever.

[Shads]

I don't mind them too much, they're kinda boring though, for some reason it's not really just mindless killing there, it's half talking and grinding, I like that because I actually have something to do while grinding (besides music). I think it's the fact that by this point everyone is tired of grinding so they like to keep themselves distracted from it. It isn't like LHC's community of just KS wars and mindless killing till you go "too bored" and leave.

[ShinkuDragon]

This is a personal gripe, so please forgive me for anything I may say, but that was another thing that I couldn't stand seeing- the selling of the drops from LHC mobs. Now, residing in Scania, LHC was full on all maps, all channels, 100% of the time. I wanted to see if the theme dungeon was doable on my Cannoneer. When I got to the quest that told me to collect 200 crockie helmets, I lost all hope. Parties were all over these maps, making it literally impossible to go any further. Then some days later, I start looking through the free market for... I forget what (maybe it was a mastery book), and what do I see. Helmets, selling for millions of mesos. This was, in my personal opinion, ridiculous. Why should someone like me, who simply wanted to complete the quest line, need to by monster loot to progress. This wasn't what Nexon Korea had originally intended; they didn't plan for LHC to remain a party play zone so players could take advantage of the questline and have other players at their mercy. No. The appeal of LHC for me was lost, as for that time, it was full of the brim with rude and inconsiderate players who didn't much care for anyone else but themselves. But imagine my surprise when I saw that LHC was being converted to it's intended state! Me, along with many others could finally complete the quest line to obtain a class specific mastery book and a nice looking medal (not necessarily my Cannoneer, but any character I choose).

Believe me, there are far better alternatives, like it's been said time and time again. Funfact: I got to level 190-200 on my Dark Knight by Evo World and Evo World alone. No Stronghold. No LHC. Ever.

i have to say something though, you didn't have to buy the items, most players in LHC didn't even bother picking them up, i collected enough helmets with auto-loot (could have been done manually too, just saying) to get 5 or 6 of my characters through to the next step. i actualy liked that those helmets were market because it was one of the few things scanians could do to gather funds.

[ZeekFox]

I think that GMS should have offset the Jesters nerf by bringing back the Accuracy stat back to its former, useful glory. Maybe keep it so that you can 100% hit anything your level or below, but make it more viable to miss less on higher levels if the accuracy stat is high enough.

Why? Because as far as I am concerned, Jesters wasn't so much the most popular because of a broken HP:EXP ratio. What made Jesters shine so much is that they gave the toughness and EXP of a 9X monster, while only actually being level 70. In all honesty, there wasn't TOO much difference in the 50K HP for 1325 EXP for a Jester and the 51K HP for 1260 EXP for a Slimy. Jesters is still better, yes, but the real problem is that a level 75 can't effectively hit level 93 monsters, whereas the Jesters offer no accuracy penalty. Thanks to power creep and the spread out spawn of most maps, a majority of level 70 players today are simply too powerful for your average level 70 monster and their 10-11K HP. Almost every class can achieve that with nothing but the level 60 gears Tot gives you. Nevermind the players who are prepared and have actual resources.

LHC is a similar thing. My Hayato is level 119, and even in just a clean Grand Maple 8th Anniversary set (except for the +1 on the katana), I can KO most anything around my level on the second Rai Sanrenzan slash if I don't miss, nevermind the third. Whirlwind Cut (which I must now jump to perform) does at least 150K if it doesn't miss (and a lot more if I crit with my 45% rate) off my cute little 9161~11452 range. Chain it off Shoryuusen? Psh, it won't even let me because Shoryuusen itself is OHKOing monsters above my level. How about giving me monsters that I can actually use the skills on like they're intended? Because my damage numbers seem more suitable for things like Skelegons with their 220K HP for 3,594 EXP...but I can't really hit a level 147 monster at level 119.

[Jamesie]

I think that GMS should have offset the Jesters nerf by bringing back the Accuracy stat back to its former, useful glory. Maybe keep it so that you can 100% hit anything your level or below, but make it more viable to miss less on higher levels if the accuracy stat is high enough.

Why? Because as far as I am concerned, Jesters wasn't so much the most popular because of a broken HP:EXP ratio. What made Jesters shine so much is that they gave the toughness and EXP of a 9X monster, while only actually being level 70. In all honesty, there wasn't TOO much difference in the 50K HP for 1325 EXP for a Jester and the 51K HP for 1260 EXP for a Slimy. Jesters is still better, yes, but the real problem is that a level 75 can't effectively hit level 93 monsters, whereas the Jesters offer no accuracy penalty. Thanks to power creep and the spread out spawn of most maps, a majority of level 70 players today are simply too powerful for your average level 70 monster and their 10-11K HP. Almost every class can achieve that with nothing but the level 60 gears Tot gives you. Nevermind the players who are prepared and have actual resources.

LHC is a similar thing. My Hayato is level 119, and even in just a clean Grand Maple 8th Anniversary set (except for the +1 on the katana), I can KO most anything around my level on the second Rai Sanrenzan slash if I don't miss, nevermind the third. Whirlwind Cut (which I must now jump to perform) does at least 150K if it doesn't miss (and a lot more if I crit with my 45% rate) off my cute little 9161~11452 range. Chain it off Shoryuusen? Psh, it won't even let me because Shoryuusen itself is OHKOing monsters above my level. How about giving me monsters that I can actually use the skills on like they're intended? Because my damage numbers seem more suitable for things like Skelegons with their 220K HP for 3,594 EXP...but I can't really hit a level 147 monster at level 119.

Still won't change the fact that training at Skelegons is a joke compared to training at LHC at that level. And yes, Jesters were actually popular because of a broken HP:EXP ratio (same with Aliens).

I find it hilarious how the attitudes have changed from a year or so ago, when everyone was worried that LHC would be made non-party play if we followed KMS. This hivemind reactions are priceless when you have a few select extremely vocal players, and then others start kissing ass to join the club.

Well, though I have always been opposed to LHC, taking it away at Ascension would've made it much harder to level since there were fewer alternatives.

[ZeekFox]

Yeah, but if I had 220K HP/3500 EXP mobs that were my level, I'd train much faster than I am overkilling mobs that barely give 2000 EXP. And Jesters were better than normal monstersin the HP:EXP ratio department, but not by THAT much. 37.7 HP per EXP verses 40.5 HP per EXP on a Slimy. Not even an 8% difference. Alien Cogs really broke the curve though.

[huehuehue]

This is a personal gripe, so please forgive me for anything I may say, but that was another thing that I couldn't stand seeing- the selling of the drops from LHC mobs. Now, residing in Scania, LHC was full on all maps, all channels, 100% of the time. I wanted to see if the theme dungeon was doable on my Cannoneer. When I got to the quest that told me to collect 200 crockie helmets, I lost all hope. Parties were all over these maps, making it literally impossible to go any further. Then some days later, I start looking through the free market for... I forget what (maybe it was a mastery book), and what do I see. Helmets, selling for millions of mesos. This was, in my personal opinion, ridiculous. Why should someone like me, who simply wanted to complete the quest line, need to by monster loot to progress. This wasn't what Nexon Korea had originally intended; they didn't plan for LHC to remain a party play zone so players could take advantage of the questline and have other players at their mercy. No. The appeal of LHC for me was lost, as for that time, it was full of the brim with rude and inconsiderate players who didn't much care for anyone else but themselves. But imagine my surprise when I saw that LHC was being converted to it's intended state! Me, along with many others could finally complete the quest line to obtain a class specific mastery book and a nice looking medal (not necessarily my Cannoneer, but any character I choose).

Believe me, there are far better alternatives, like it's been said time and time again. Funfact: I got to level 190-200 on my Dark Knight by Evo World and Evo World alone. No Stronghold. No LHC. Ever.

I'm going to say that the market works as intended. People who are unable or unwilling to put in the time and effort to collect drops can spend some some mesos getting them instead. Similar to how I'm quite willing to pay people for Eyes of Fire, PB pre items, etc.

I don't know how it works in Scania, but in BelloNova it's ridiculously easy to get crocky helms even if you can't find a party. When I first started playing maple again, I got 200 crocky helms in ~10 mins through a combination of asking people training if they had any helms they could spare and just looting the helms that no one else bothers to pick up. The rest of the pre-quests took a while longer to do, but generally the rooms past crockies were pretty empty and solo-able if you were willing to put in the time.

I will miss being able to quickly level link mules to 70 or 120, but I think that overall, nerfing the exp at NLC/LHC to be more in line with the rest of the game makes the game "healthier".

[Dark Link]

I find it hilarious how the attitudes have changed from a year or so ago, when everyone was worried that LHC would be made non-party play if we followed KMS. This hivemind reactions are priceless when you have a few select extremely vocal players, and then others start kissing ass to join the club.

I personally couldn't care less. I hardly train anymore in this game.

I've always hated LHC. I was disappointed when NexonNA kept the Party Play aspect of it during the same patch KMS got it removed from LHC.

[SureYouKens]

In a few weeks people should calm down and find optimal training spots again.(Even though there is already a multitude of lists giving people areas to train in) I rather enjoyed the party play aspect of LHC but there needs to be more areas that can compete with it if they ever want to revert the EXP nerf.

[LittlePrincess]

My main question in making this thread was why people were for the nerf. In other words, why they think it was necessary. Their opinion. Nothing to do with right and wrong.

Ahh, I couldn't figure out what your first post was about, but now I see what you are looking for. I think the game contains imbalance in several areas including maps. Not all maps have the same spawn, not all monsters give the same experience, not all maps contain the same format (flat, platforms, hills, etc). So when people say a map is "good for leveling" they usually mean that the spawn is high, the monsters are easily accessible to be killed in mass based on the map format, and the experience gain per monster biased on the monsters level is high.

A simple solution would to make every map contain the same spawn and base experience of the monster solely on the level (so all level 50 monsters give the same experience). However, that makes the game boring (just like making all the classes the same makes it boring).

The optimal solution is to balance the experience given with the level of the monster, the spawn rate, and the map format (easy formats should not generate the same experience as a difficult format). I think this solution is really difficult because of all the variables - especially if the map format variable is included. Done perfectly the character should be able to gain the same experience per hour on each map of monsters the same level, but the style of training would have to vary for different maps. I think Nexon tries to do this because of the variations in spawn and experience, but there is so much room for error that often they introduce an unbalanced map. Aliens aren't the first monster GMS created that were a little unbalanced compared to the rest of the game (remember Sharka Cellrons?) And it's certainly not the first correction that has been made.

As far as I can see this is the same thing as implementing an over powered (OP) class that everyone flocks to and then nerfing it 6 months later. (Except that it's hard to see how an OP map generates more nx sales than a regular one, so it's less likely that maps are purposefully done OP and then nerfed.)

[hadriel]

If you take a toy away from someone, obviously some of them are going to cry. But Nexon gave them another toy... and some of them continue to cry because some of them don't like the new toy, while some of them just want back their old toy because they just want back their old toy.

I'm not sure what to say. Is someone to blame, or is there anything wrong in the first place (aside from Extreme MP because that was totally unexpected)? Or is it the players who have become power-and-speed hungry? But at least for now I don't feel like a lab mice being prodded around for someone outside the box to watch my response.

Hadriel