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  1. Neutron

    IGN: shootDaFokUp
    Server: Scania
    Level: 210
    Job: Cannon Master
    Guild: BlackRose

    Default How does new PDR work?


    I understand this could be very early to ask, but I would throw it out.

    I have seen @Takebacker said the following

    Can anyone please explain what does it mean by applied separately?

  2. Default How does new PDR work?


    My damage reduction feeling i referred to in that post might have been influenced by not setting character cards though. I also don't know if pdr can exceed 100% on the stat window. I have 98% equipped.

  3. Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    Do we have to start a new thread just for this...?

    Separate meaning that each source of IgnorePDR reduces the effective PDR multiplicatively. So if a boss has 50%PDR and you have 10%, 10% and 25% IgnorePDR sources, then the boss's effective PDR becomes 50% * (1 - 0.1) * (1 - 0.1) * (1 - 0.75) = 50% * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.75 = 30.375%.
    In contrast, an additive IgnorePDR would have made the boss's PDR become 50% * (1 - 0.45) = 27.5%

    Hadriel

  4. Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    My PDR is 133% in the stat window, and that doesn't include snipe's 40% ignore

  5. Neutron

    IGN: shootDaFokUp
    Server: Scania
    Level: 210
    Job: Cannon Master
    Guild: BlackRose

    Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    Thanks for explaining that separate = multiplicative.

    @Marksman Bryan, do you hit less or the same as before?

  6. Default How does new PDR work?


    Suppose that's more than enough to confirm we got kms unlimited with less severe boss upgrades. Magnus is a little more difficult though...dat green ohko i hate you.

  7. Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    I was capping with everything before so I can't really compare :/

    I was hitting the same damage in dojo as on root abyss bosses (the ones with no physical resist)

  8. God of Terrorism Straight Male
    IGN: Bomber123
    Server: StranInSCA
    Level: 202
    Job: Terrorist
    Guild: Noctivagant
    Alliance: I dont remember
    Farm: ExpiredMobs
    usa

    Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    What PDR changes? There are none.

  9. Donator Straight Male
    IGN: ShinkuDragon HoukaPhoenix BoshokuRaven
    Server: Scania
    Level: 152
    Job: Batman
    Guild: IDissOrtis
    panama

    Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    not necesarily, it can simply be showing you your "excess" ignore

  10. Neutron

    IGN: shootDaFokUp
    Server: Scania
    Level: 210
    Job: Cannon Master
    Guild: BlackRose

    Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    I asked because I remember they said there will be changes to the old PDR system in unleashed, but it wont be the same as KMS.

  11. God of Terrorism Straight Male
    IGN: Bomber123
    Server: StranInSCA
    Level: 202
    Job: Terrorist
    Guild: Noctivagant
    Alliance: I dont remember
    Farm: ExpiredMobs
    usa

    Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    There are no PDR changes.

  12. Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    When the game goes back up I'll be replacing an 18% PDR neb from my secondary with a 3% (2%?) total dmg neb.

    Now that I type it out it seems like the change, if any, would be insignificant and might be difficult to tell if there is any. But I'll let you know if I notice a big difference.

  13. Neutron

    IGN: shootDaFokUp
    Server: Scania
    Level: 210
    Job: Cannon Master
    Guild: BlackRose

    Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    Thanks!

    And thanks!

  14. Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    I don't really get how the item's %pdr change works.

    My main sword is 40% boss (potential) + 15% pdr (nebulite). When I have my sword off, it shows +40% boss +0% pdr. When I equip another weapon with 15% nebulite, it shows +40% boss -10% pdr. When I swap the two, the other sword has -40% boss -10% pdr. The nebulite pretty clearly does add +15% pdr in my stat window, so where's 10% coming from? If it was just based on general pdr then, since I have 50% from combat mastery, 15% from luminous, 5% from (forget which card) and 30% from the codex, it should be 4% more pdr in the multiplicative sense - 72% to 76% ignored.

    Only way I make sense of it is if it's comparing only to equips - the 30% of the codex means a nebulite is 15% of 70%, or 10.5% pdr.

  15. Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    Def ignore nebulites don't show up correctly in the change in stats thingy.

    When it calculates old PDR it takes nebulites into account, and when it calculates new PDR it doesn't take nebulites into account. This is a problem since change = new - old.
    You'll end up with weird things like shoes or overalls saying they decrease your PDR if you have a weapon with a PDR neb equipped.


    Also all of my tests suggest we're using KMS's defense ignore system. PDR = 1-(1-PDR1)(1-PDR2)(1-PDR3)...
    Easiest way to prove it would be to get a Merc or Bucc with high defense ignore to shoot at high def mobs, then compare the 100% ignore and regular lines.

  16. Nuclear testing facility Straight Male
    IGN: VerrKol
    Server: Zenith
    Level: 204
    Job: Bowmaster
    Guild: LegacyReborn
    Farm: Kolville
    usa

    Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    Even if the new UI update which calculates damage/stat changes shows multiplicative PDR values, that does not necessarily mean we got the corresponding code for calculating actual damage. This weird mismatch of KMS+CMS+GMS code could do anything... and Nexon employees themselves may not fully understand it judging by our grossly incomplete update notes.

    I'll do some rigorous testing using my BM damage calculator which was highly accurate pre-Unleashed and see if there are any inconsistencies.

  17. Orbital Bee Cannon
    IGN: SaptaZapta
    Server: Kradia
    Level: 225
    Job: Hero
    Guild: Matriarchy
    Alliance: Dominion

    Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    Did a bit of testing on Chief Oblivion Guardians (PDR 20) and White Fangs (PDR 5).
    I have 123% Ignore def in my stats window, so should be hitting the same on both.
    I didn't.
    Using multiplicative Ignore Def, my actual is about 79%. The numbers I got were consistent with this.
    Screenshots will be posted when it's not 2AM here, sorry.

  18. Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    Ok I took some screens.
    Basically we have multiplicative PDR.
    GuardBreak hypers also count as a seperate sources. So if I have Illusion and Illusion Guardbreak, it counts as 2 seperate sources of 20% ignore defense.

    For reference
    Multiplicative PDR = 1 - (1-PDR1)(1-PDR2)(1-PDR3)...
    Damage = 1 - (Def * (1-PDR))




    PDR
     LeafreIllusionGuardBreakNebuliteAmbitionLight WashTopTotal
    PDR30%20%20%18%7%10%5%100%
    1-PDR70%80%80%82%93%90%95%70.79%

    70% defense
     PDRDefenseIgnoredFinal DefenseDamage
    PDR+100.00%70.00%70.00%0.00%100.00%
    PDR*70.79%70.00%49.55%20.45%79.55%

    Total Damage
     GloveWeaponSubWeaponReinforceTotal
    Total Damage15%18%9%20%162%

    Killer Wings

    DoT Damage = True Max Range * DoT%
    True Max Range = DoT Damage / DoT% = 175998/90% = 195553.3333

    Damage
     True RangeDamageTotal DamageMasterySkill%CritMinMax
    PDR+195553.3333100.00%162%95%570%150%2573178.7592708609.22
    PDR*195553.333379.55%162%95%570%150%2047029.5432154767.94
    Evans have 150% min crit and max crit so I don't need seperate crit numbers.

    Actual Damage



    2057054, 2082831, and 2102563 are are consistent with multiplicative PDR and not consistent with additive PDR.



    The 2057054 also proves that Illlusion and Illusion: GuardBreak count as seperate sources of PDR. If I change Illusion to 40% and guardbreak to 0%, then I get...

    Damage
     True RangeDamageTotal DamageMasterySkill%CritMinMax
    PDR+195553.3333100.00%162%95%570%150%2573178.7592708609.22
    PDR*195553.333380.83%162%95%570%150%2079913.8692189383.02

    2057054 clearly does not fall into that range.



    edit: there was a glitch, I had a few numbers wrong. Change total on subweapon from 5->9 and skill% from 585 -> 570. Min and Max are about the same though (1.58*5.85=9.243, 1.62*5.7=9.234, so negligible difference), so the results are still the same.

  19. Donator Straight Male
    IGN: ShinkuDragon HoukaPhoenix BoshokuRaven
    Server: Scania
    Level: 152
    Job: Batman
    Guild: IDissOrtis
    panama

    Default Re: How does new PDR work?


    it's my sacrifice's time to shine!


    ...sigh ._.

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