Why is everyone worried about unlimited?

[Stereo]

Additional options just seem like another way for the high-funding players (who don't mind pesky things like recubing all their items several times a year) to get ahead of me. I can't drop them on my existing items because of the tradeability business (not giving up the option to play new characters - the DW revamp alone justifies keeping everything tradeable), and replacing 9-12% equips isn't cheap. Maybe a year after it comes out I'll have some decent additional option gear, but at the start it'll just be "oh, now the top players have 300 extra base stats and I don't". Same way Tyrant gear works... it just enlarges the gap.

[Curtiss]

Additional options just seem like another way for the high-funding players (who don't mind pesky things like recubing all their items several times a year) to get ahead of me. I can't drop them on my existing items because of the tradeability business (not giving up the option to play new characters - the DW revamp alone justifies keeping everything tradeable), and replacing 9-12% equips isn't cheap. Maybe a year after it comes out I'll have some decent additional option gear, but at the start it'll just be "oh, now the top players have 300 extra base stats and I don't".

I've been concerned about that too, but I'll say that if hunting gear with good potential and additional options is possible you could have your cake and eat it too since drop rates were increased permanently, you can now hunt regular gear at monsters of the appropriate level (Sucks about that drop penalty though) and items that drop will have those options and will be fully tradeable unless you either flame them to re-roll their stats or their required level is raised to level 140.

I'm going to guess that you're out of luck with your sword though since replacing that would be tough.

[Stereo]

I'm going to guess that you're out of luck with your sword though since replacing that would be tough.

Hrm, yeah. Face accessory, bottom, cape, sword, shoes, pendant, and belt are items that don't drop as such (mostly because of my strict tradability requirement, although a couple are just plain unique items). So I'll get new hat, earring, glove and top I suppose.

[Curtiss]

Hrm, yeah. Face accessory, bottom, cape, sword, shoes, pendant, and belt are items that don't drop as such (mostly because of my strict tradability requirement, although a couple are just plain unique items). So I'll get new hat, earring, glove and top I suppose.

Well, if you luck out with a tradeable glove that can get DSE/DSI or something ridiculous you've pretty much made your day! I'm actually stoked to see Unlimited to arrive at GMS so that we can finally have more data to work on and then we can get a concrete idea on what to do with old gear rather than to theorize solely by KMS's standards.

[Kizo]

This part is pineappleing stupid.

I have a bitterlove feeling about this. It's good for everyone to get their own shares.. but as a GMS player, I know all the hackers are gonna abuse this to the ground...

[Abrasive]

The only things I don't like with unlimited are the scissor counts on items with flames put on them and the boss split drops. Scissor counts for obvious reasons and as @Green4Ever; said i prefer to solo bosses or run with 1-2 friends and sell and split all profits. When it'll come to runs where i need to invite people i don't know all that well and we decide to still pool drops together, split, and sell how do i know they'll be truthful about what dropped? If we just sell what we get i could leave with nothing and every other member can leave with a bil. I just find it unnecessary.

[Curtiss]

I have a bitterlove feeling about this. It's good for everyone to get their own shares.. but as a GMS player, I know all the hackers are gonna abuse this to the ground...

How so, if you wouldn't mind explaining? It seems to me that Unlimited is also unfavourable since we all know hackers would gain a major headstart until legits can catch up but I'm interested to know how this particular system would benefit hackers.

[Justin]

Do you guys seriously not have 4-5 other people that you trust that you can go to bosses with? If not, I pity you. The individual loot system has its merits, as well as its cons. Make of it what you will. If you don't want to party at bosses, just get more upgrades and hit the new cap. Simple as that.

[Razmos]

How so, if you wouldn't mind explaining? It seems to me that Unlimited is also unfavourable since we all know hackers would gain a major headstart until legits can catch up but I'm interested to know how this particular system would benefit hackers.

A party of 5 hackers would get 5x more drops than a solo hacker. Prices are going to deflate beyond belief.

[Curtiss]

A party of 5 hackers would get 5x more drops than a solo hacker. Prices are going to deflate beyond belief.

Right, I forgot about the part where each member would get guaranteed drops now. There goes my enthusiasm both for this and MSEA's supposed Unlimited patch.

[Grey]

A party of 5 hackers would get 5x more drops than a solo hacker. Prices are going to deflate beyond belief.

I'm pretty sure it's just the normal amount of drops, but pre-split between all members. If you watch party bossing videos, at the end, when the boss dies, there are gaps in the drops on the ground because those items in the gaps weren't assigned to the person capturing the video, and hence, they aren't able to pick them up or see them. It'd be ridiculous to get more drops simply because you bring more people, at least, 100% more drops per person is ridiculous.

[Mazz]

A party of 5 hackers would get 5x more drops than a solo hacker. Prices are going to deflate beyond belief.

Especially considering how the most popular hacking program has a multi client option built in, so pretty much every hacker is going to have the ability to run multiple characters.

[Curtiss]

I'm pretty sure it's just the normal amount of drops, but pre-split between all members. If you watch party bossing videos, at the end, when the boss dies, there are gaps in the drops on the ground because those items in the gaps weren't assigned to the person capturing the video, and hence, they aren't able to pick them up or see them. It'd be ridiculous to get more drops simply because you bring more people, at least 100% more drops per person is ridiculous.

That's what I thought initially too. So just to clarify, have there been scenarios in which people got nothing as the drops were less than the number of party members?

Disregard, I just realized that it'd be the same either way.

[valhala556]

If the drop rates dont change from bosses I dont get whats wrong with each person getting their own drops. instead of spliting every gets their own set of drops. Just pretend that every that drops u can keep and it doesn't bother anyone else. Unless of course you were talking about taking advantage of the extra 2x~6x drops (+1x for each person) to be had after unlimited.

[Grey]

That's what I thought initially too. So just to clarify, have there been scenarios in which people got nothing as the drops were less than the number of party members?

I have no idea, there's this thread on Insoya about boss drops: http://www.insoya.com/bbs/zboard.php...age=7&no=36934
But judging from the title of the video, it's about some kind of bug with boss drops that occured after Unlimited. L> Korean translator?

I think only certain items are tagged as to be split, though, since there's some Timeless equips that dropped from CPB that were visible to the recorder, but were looted by someone else. It might be that this is what the bossItem tag means, instead of being tagged for boss additional options, or potentially, the other new variable exItem (extra item?).

You can also get multiple versions of the items that are split from a single run, but not by the same person, though, and everyone's drops are based on their own individual drop rate, I think, is one of the points in the Insoya thread.

If the drop rates dont change from bosses I dont get whats wrong with each person getting their own drops. instead of spliting every gets their own set of drops. Just pretend that every that drops u can keep and it doesn't bother anyone else. Unless of course you were talking about taking advantage of the extra 2x~6x drops (+1x for each person) to be had after unlimited.

For the most part, I don't really see this as an issue, I mean, if I was running with my usual group, I could just have everyone trade their drops to me, or whoever the leader of our run is, if not me, sell them, and split the mesos like before, the only inconvenience being the extra step of trading equips to one person.

The entire idea of randomly assigning drops to party members is really unfair, though, because there's no way the game can determine the value of the dropped items, it's just random. If the value of all equips were equal, then it'd be fine, but they're not, some items are worth much more than others, like Empress Katanas vs Empress 2H BWs. You just can't split equips that way; if you're unlucky, you walk away from a run with like, nothing, while someone else just made a bil, regardless of your contribution to the run. So no, it's really not okay to do drops that way instead of selling and splitting.

[Curtiss]

I have no idea, there's this thread on Insoya about boss drops: http://www.insoya.com/bbs/zboard.php...age=7&no=36934
But judging from the title of the video, it's about some kind of bug with boss drops that occured after Unlimited. L> Korean translator?

I think only certain items are tagged as to be split, though, since there's some Timeless equips that dropped from CPB that were visible to the recorder, but were looted by someone else. It might be that this is what the bossItem tag means, instead of being tagged for boss additional options, or potentially, the other new variable exItem (extra item?).



For the most part, I don't really see this as an issue, I mean, if I was running with my usual group, I could just have everyone trade their drops to me, or whoever the leader of our run is, if not me, sell them, and split the mesos like before, the only inconvenience being the extra step of trading equips to one person.

The entire idea of randomly assigning drops to party members is really unfair, though, because there's no way the game can determine the value of the dropped items, it's just random. If the value of all equips were equal, then it'd be fine, but they're not, some items are worth much more than others, like Empress Katanas vs Empress 2H BWs. You just can't split equips that way; if you're unlucky, you walk away from a run with like, nothing, while someone else just made a bil, regardless of your contribution to the run. So no, it's really not okay to do drops that way instead of selling and splitting.

Oh! That does make sense since Timeless weapons don't fall in the Boss Items category and I've read that regular items with levels raised to level 140 might have different options too. As for the random drops, yeah, that would be less of an issue if everyone ends up pooling them like they did previously but it otherwise makes things unfair once again.

[valhala556]

For the most part, I don't really see this as an issue, I mean, if I was running with my usual group, I could just have everyone trade their drops to me, or whoever the leader of our run is, if not me, sell them, and split the mesos like before, the only inconvenience being the extra step of trading equips to one person.

The entire idea of randomly assigning drops to party members is really unfair, though, because there's no way the game can determine the value of the dropped items, it's just random. If the value of all equips were equal, then it'd be fine, but they're not, some items are worth much more than others, like Empress Katanas vs Empress 2H BWs. You just can't split equips that way; if you're unlucky, you walk away from a run with like, nothing, while someone else just made a bil, regardless of your contribution to the run. So no, it's really not okay to do drops that way instead of selling and splitting.

Ok, i get and agree with what your saying. And its not entirely fair if you can't split evenly. But if u look at it at a different angle, you are still getting the same amount of drops pre unlimited and post unlimited(without trading). Thus the same profit. Well actually not really since the bosses do become harder. So u may end up running a few times less.

[Curtiss]

Ok, i get and agree with what your saying. And its not entirely fair if you can't split evenly. But if u look at it at a different angle, you are still getting the same amount of drops pre unlimited and post unlimited(without trading). Thus the same profit. Well actually not really since the bosses do become harder. So u may end up running a few times less.

I don't know about the other bosses, but Cygnus will be a different issue.

Clear limit has been changed to 2 per week
If any of the Chief Knights are defeated, your attempt is considered as 1 clear

[valhala556]

I don't know about the other bosses, but Cygnus will be a different issue.

oh crap forgot about that. Well what I said holds true given that you can still clear the bosses in the same amount of time. but yeah can't do that with cyngus anymore.

[Curtiss]

oh crap forgot about that. Well what I said holds true given that you can still clear the bosses in the same amount of time. but yeah can't do that with cyngus anymore.

Not for VL, PB and CPB whose clear times have been cut into half. I would say that when the information was new everyone's major complaint was that the boost was too big considering that Cygnus used to have 220 billion HP. Though it was adjusted somewhere between then and now it's still a bit too much to top considering some groups have trouble even defeating the V2 KoCs in a full 18-man party.