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  1. ☮♫♥ Gay Male
    IGN: FrozNlite
    Server: Khaini
    Level: 200
    Job: F/P ArchMage
    Guild: Brazzers
    Alliance: Heroes

    Default No More Mr. Nice Guy

    A friend found and shared this incredible old LiveJournal (lol) post by DivaLion from July of 2005, which I find extremely relevant to much of the social issues we still see today in trying to begin contemporary relationships. The whole piece is rather long, so enjoy it in the spoiler below or the link above.


    Thoughts? From people who feel they have been "Friendzoned"? From women who have experienced this phenomenon first-hand? We all know and discuss it online, but I think this is a great piece with which to launch a real discussion.

    Also, for those interested, the quick and latest photo story from Buzzfeed on this entitled "13 Reasons Why Nice Guys Are The Worst"

  2. Monster Truck Tire Straight Male
    IGN: Triggernometry
    Server: Supports
    Job: TeamSecret
    Guild: BigDaddy<3

    Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    That was..
    gotta admit I was a "Nice guy" a couple years ago, but then I realized that happiness must come from me and nobody else. And that happiness is the thing I must share in a relationship. Not from my couple.

  3. Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    While i believe the writer over generalized a little too much, her analysis is valid. That's the problem I have with labels- they come with an expectation of "what belongs where and who is portraying exactly what". I also think she puts a little too much blame on the guy-side of things, as relationships are a lot of give and take- her interpretation could easily have been misconstrued by her own experiences. I believe that in some cases (not all) the girl also has a role in leading the guy on (both "Nice" and nice guys). And I honestly think that it could easily be a mistake between the two if one (or both) parties don't cognitively know that what they're doing may be considered "wrong" or "offensive" or "not working". That's probably why she was very interested in the guy who just put himself outright because there was mutual communication and mutual acceptance (of a non-relationship, but rather a friendship).
    On the other hand, more women could be more active in rejecting/accepting a friend's advances if it is as obvious to women as she makes it seem. That would save everyone a bunch of time and a lot less hurt in the long run. Women who leash both types of nice guys seem to be the woman counterpart to the "nice" guy- they just adore and love the attention; "an audience", to use the author's words. Again, a lot of things can be improved on both sides of this argument. It is not only the guy's job to search out for women. If she so chooses, this situation could easily be reversed, but no one ever talks about that one because that's not normal to hear about.

    It's sad to think that two very, truly nice friends, who embody all that the writer believes is truly nice, could easily just miss each other because they don't know how or when or why they can't be together. And they don't stop to think that maybe if one of them took that leap of faith that they could end up with one another. The author puts a very high emphasis on this "leap of faith" and rewards all the outgoing guy characters, but offers no suggestions to the shy individuals that she mentions in the beginning. Does that then mean that they slowly become the "nice" guys that the author hates? Or are they just true friends an loving people who others always comment on "OMG X! You are soOoOooo awesome to everyone and are super amazing! Any girl should be so lucky to have you! I don't understand why you don't have a girlfriend yet!"Are they punished because they aren't the type to take "that leap of faith"; to take that chance for the off chance that the pursuit lands them their goal? Must they become something that they are not in order to succeed in landing a relationship? It's a hard choice to make, but I believe that if the nice guy is for sure who he is, he will come to make the right decision for himself- leap of faith or not.

  4. Donator Straight Male
    IGN: ShinkuDragon HoukaPhoenix BoshokuRaven
    Server: Scania
    Level: 152
    Job: Batman
    Guild: IDissOrtis

    Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    the sooner you realize being a "nice guy" isn't the way to get girls, the better. i haven't been able to read the text or worthyness post, but i've seen enough of it on the internet to know what you're referring to.

    you "act" the nice guy, you may truly be a nice guy, bit if you go to a girl thinking "i'll show her how nice i am!" then you stop being yourself, and this isn't some fairy tale where she'll fall in your arms after your large examples of "chivalry" (not sure if that's the word i'm looking for)

  5. Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    This may sound like a real big stereotype, but since I'm in Engineering I have mostly guy friends and that is something I experience a lot. I even have some Nice Guy friends who use the excuse of being friendzoned and mistreated by women too often, to become jerks. Some of them now sleep with different girls every other day and they still tell me about true love and how they just fell head over heels for a girl (not the ones they're sleeping with).
    I think girls expect too much from their men a lot of times and most nice guys are really those Nice Guys the post was talking about. There are very few real nice guys. Men can't read minds and they, most of the time, think more practical than girls. It's a natural thing. Also, who doesn't like sex? Sex and sexual attraction/satisfaction are very important factors in a relationship to me.

  6. Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    I think she was overly harsh on the Nice Guy, but most of her points are pretty true.

    The Nice Guys I have personally met have had baggage with them. Oh my pineappleing God. Some were more obvious (emo moodiness), and some were pretty discrete (only find out when you get in a relationship with them) but they all did a splendid job at charming women from the get-go.

    This. This. This. So much this! It's a lot of work for us to make ourselves look pretty. When guys peach about how girls take forever, it's a little irritating. You want to look at some pretty eye candy but you don't want to deal with the time factor? Geez.

    It goes for both genders but If you're not happy with yourself, then for sanity's sake, what makes you think a relationship will provide that?

  7. Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    Be nice, but be strong.

    Be nice to stand by your ideals, but be strong to defend them. If you are nice and weak, it's when people pick on you.

  8. Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    This post was very insightful, I swear it is just like one of my ex's and thinking about it more it would explain why he kept trying to friend me only to later argue about how I ruined his life by dumping him. There were good reasons and I won't go into it, but this post almost fits him exactly it is scary.

  9. ☮♫♥ Gay Male
    IGN: FrozNlite
    Server: Khaini
    Level: 200
    Job: F/P ArchMage
    Guild: Brazzers
    Alliance: Heroes

    Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    Haha yes, that was my favorite quote of the post, because it underscores the debate for "changing" something about yourself. More often than not I hear from guys that they don't want to "change" for a relationship and that they shouldn't have to, and while I agree with that, I agree with the actual sentiment of not having to change, not how, it seems, most interpret it.

    When people say "don't change yourself for a relationship," they mean you shouldn't have to "be someone you're not" in terms of changing your career path or acting "more masculine" or something. They DO NOT mean you're excused for poor hygiene, elements of dress, cleanliness around the house or apartment, and/or behavioral habits like being rude to wait staff or leaving used bags of tea around the house. These tend to be the simple things that everyone knows they shouldn't do, but it seems too many guys are lazy to do, and so, like the quote and Mandalay show, it's unbelievably annoying when guys ignore or even rebuke the time a girl takes getting ready, when she wants the same from you.

    It's a sign of disrespect, in all honesty, to dress or act slovenly in the presence of a girl you're trying to woo who takes the time to dress well and

    No, I think the point is that no matter how outgoing or shy you may be, if you want something in life, you have to go for it. And sure, that's more difficult for those with shy, introverted personalities, but let me ask you something: is it really? In the scope of love, that is. Is it really that difficult?

    What is love? A deep, emotional, physical, and often spiritual connection between two people. The very foundation of the concept, of creating a successful, healthy relationship, is in beginning and continuously working on maintaining that connection. How do you expect to have that if you're too shy to talk to and be intimate with even one person? And I want to emphasis the maintenance part: a long term relationship takes time and effort to remain healthy and romantic. So if you succeed in finding the guts to ask her out, and get a chance at a date through which to build a relationship, all you've done is made it to the starting line.

    All I'm trying to say is that of course the guy or girl can take the "leap of faith" in trying to create a relationship, but someone has to do it. And if you're too scared of even talking to and getting to know one person, is love truly something for you? That's not becoming something you're not, that's realizing the absolute base requirements of love and relationships and recognizing whether that's for you. Love requires more than one person, so recognize what that means if that thought scares you.

    (Note the "you" above is general)

  10. Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    LOL WRONG. Look man, I'm about to blow your mind, I hope you're sitting down;

    Love is trust, but how can you define trust? Trust is two cannibals giving eachother blowjobs and neither one of them bites. Which is love.


  11. Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    A lot of the stuff in there is situational. I've been rejected a total of three times, once in each stage of education (middle, high, university). I never saw or spoke to the middle school girl again because I went to a different high school, I was friends with the high school one until... I went to a different university, and the university one is a very messy situation that I don't want to talk about, but I broke that friendship in the summer and do not anticipate reforging it, ever.

    This, on the other hand, is probably one of the most important things in this passage and the reason why I currently abstain from relationship-seeking. If you're emotionally broken, don't rely on someone else to fix you (unless that someone is your therapist that you are not dating). Fix yourself, love yourself, then you may love others and others may love you.


  12. Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    Post a picture, we'll dress you!

  13. Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    my bed has gone missing

  14. Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    You'll have to wait until I'm home, but man do I have all these idea's for you!

  15. Interdimensional Rift Straight Male
    IGN: thewatch3r
    Server: Khaini
    Level: 204
    Job: Lolmaster
    Guild: Contagious

    Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    Well this thread sure took an interesting turn. That post hit home for me in some ways, but not in a lot of others. While I can see the distinction between the two "nice" guys, I don't think it is always so black and white so I am glad that she used the term 'spectrum' to describe the range.

    I also agree with Worthyness, that women could make a man's job a little easier by picking up on those signs and making her feelings clear if/when confronted. Personally, I tend to be pretty terrible at always picking up on body language/signs, especially if it is from a girl I have interest in.

    Lastly, I feel that everyone's experiences with past relationships determines how they will go about relationships in the future. The dating world isn't an easy or always forgiving place imo, but if you never take that leap, you'll never know.

  16. Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    I have no objections. If someone wants something, they'll do something about it. Though I'm sure there are individuals who do think it's extremely hard for them to ask someone out. Especially when, as the author portrays, that women are so good at reading body language and want men to guess every little thing that they assume is common knowledge and obvious. Not every man is a brilliant genius who can read the signs of "OMG GET AWAY FROM ME" and/or "OMG I LOVE YOU WHY DON'T YOU ASK ME OUT NOW?" Again, it's on each individual and on their motivation to do so. Relationships are built on trust and the connections between the individuals (add a little spontaneity in there and you've got some fun stuff going on) and it is the initiative to try and start those connections that gets a relationship going. That or everyone could just be a whole lot less mysterious and just outright reveal what they're feeling/what they want, but that kind of ruins the fun of this whole idea doesn't it?

    haha I thought it was implied? :P

  17. Neon Atom Straight Male
    IGN: Battlesteps
    Server: Windia
    Level: 173
    Job: Battle Mage
    Guild: Swift
    Alliance: Apotheosis

    Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    Nobody wants to die alone.

    The thing is, it isn't easy to approach new people when you've had horrible past relationships or numerous rejections. Some handle it better than others, and some are too easily put down by the notion of rejection. I remember a particular relationship that I was in that left my impressions of other girls pretty jaded for quite a while; It might not be logical to assume that all women are equal (it isn't), but you tend not to think logically when you're overrun with emotion. (Even though I did eventually get over it, of course) Rejection, break ups, that sort of thing... can really wear on a person's self esteem. It tends to become difficult after a while to see yourself of any value to others when so many had (supposedly) deemed you inadequate.

  18. Can of Soup Male
    IGN: LunaMimosa
    Server: El Nido
    Level: 134
    Job: OP Elf Queen
    Guild: Some no-name guild
    Alliance: Read above.

    Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    Its a good article... Its definitely more common behavior among guys, i just always found it strange that no one really addresses that females display this same behavior too. Unless i missed it in this article.

    I believe a friendzone exists, but a lot of people don't realize that if you 'went for the kill' you probably would have been rejected completely anyway.

    then again, I'm not the kind of person dumb enough to truly fall for someone i'm not actually seeing. Then again, my experiences taught me its better not to love someone for who they are, but for how they treat *You*. I've been attracted to friends, but no way in heck am I going to tell myself i need her until i know what she's like as a lover.

    That said, think about our culture, we always quick to mention what could influence men to feel entitled. Certain sitcoms are so full of crap when it comes to that: after several seasons, someone starts to think 'wow... maybe he's the one and i've been lying to myself all along' Followed by dramatic gestures.

    I'm not the kind of person who believes in just condemning bad behavior, what few people take the time to do is consider the roots of it.

    An even -bigger- factor to me is the lack of guidance on the subject of love to men. Families in general might teach women a few things due to a cultural bias, but guys are generally left to figure it all out for themselves. Then, when they screw up, everyone is quick to say 'this is wrong, that is wrong, that's wrong too, that's wrong.' Not to mention a flurry of flames and insults.

    When do we stop and take the time to say 'This is right' or 'Have you thought about this?' or 'Lets really talk about these feelings'. Outlets like those are so much rarer for guys, and not many are fortunate to have any family members or friends that are open about such emotional subjects. Guys and feelings? That's considered weird by our culture. I'm glad I braved myself to tell my 2 younger cousins they could talk to me about their feelings over a year ago, and that i wouldn't judge them. Since then: they've let me know that they've opened up to me about things their parents STILL don't know cause they're just not as open.

    Often, we take things like that for granted, but think about how many young guys out there don't have someone like that, and how it's affecting their perception of things such as relationships. Left with only their upwardly spiking hormones, a bunch of other guys who only take the time to talk about how good that one girl looks. Seeing couples being cute but having no one to teach them all that went behind it... Maybe the wide spread existence of the "Nice Guy" is due to a lack of knowledge.

    Just as a whole, i see a lot of scolding on subjects like these, but where are the teachers? Something our culture also needs. This article specifically, does do better than most, all things considered.

  19. Monster Truck Tire Straight Male
    IGN: Triggernometry
    Server: Supports
    Job: TeamSecret
    Guild: BigDaddy<3

    Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy

    Even though I totally agree with this.
    Let's rethink about it for a second. Knowning this culture, just how many men will be willing to take "classes" or let them anyone else tell them how to maintain a relationship?



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