Would it be morally fair of Nexon to ban buyers/sellers of NX? I think not.

[Dudewitbow]

should the police not morally arrest you for selling/buying illegal drugs would be a real life comparison to what buying and selling NX is. It does not matter if the transaction comes out okay. The both actions are already illegal to begin with, and authorities should be allowed to do their job correctly and morals should not be part of the equation. Its a rule that's in place. Profits do not matter in the situation, the rule has been broken and they have the right to enforce such rule.

[IImaplers]

In the real world, anyone who wants to redistribute/re-sell a company's products for commercial gain is legally obliged to pay distribution rights/royalties/whatever, if not, at least sign a contract of sorts to gain the privilege to do so. Of course, people get away with not doing it 99% of the time (especially if you're a small business) but that doesn't mean it's okay.

How is trading something virtual for something else that's virtual an act of commercial gain within the game? I'd argue that it's not if it's a fair trade.

@Dudewitbow: Just like @MuscleWizard argued that there's a huge difference between simply blinking and b/s NX, I can argue that that there's an even bigger difference between b/s NX and b/s real-life drugs.

[MariettaRC]

How is it not wrong morally? So if Nexon banned a player just for blinking that's not morally wrong?

That question has nothing to do with the original topic, that's regarding the part of the ToS saying that Nexon has the right to do what the wish to your account.

Is it morally wrong for Nexon to ban players who buy/sell NX from other players? No. Because they have stated specifically that it is against their rules to do so. It's a precaution against scamming, because it does happen (as well as probably another underlying reason I'm not thinking of). They're also making money off a service that is not theirs, whether it's in-game currency or not. Just because there are players who do it honestly doesn't make it any less wrong and does not pardon the fact that they are breaking rules.

EDIT: Too many responses before I even finished typing. Whatever.

[IImaplers]

Let me re-word my question:

Outside of breaking the company's rule of "do not buy/sell NX"; by trading 85 mil mesos for a 1 day hired merchant shop, what are you doing that's wrong or harmful to the game or the company? It's unreasonable to think that there's anything wrong with doing that within that context.

[YennoX]

How is trading something virtual for something else that's virtual an act of commercial gain within the game? I'd argue that it's not if it's a fair trade.

@Dudewitbow: Just like @MuscleWizard argued that there's a huge difference between simply blinking and b/s NX, I can argue that that there's an even bigger difference between b/s NX and b/s real-life drugs.

Stores such as 7-Eleven that stock up on Karma Coins have exclusive rights obtained from Nexon to sell its virtual currency. You do not. That is the difference. The fact that both parties are getting something out of the transaction is commercial gain.

Also, you seem to have the mentality that 'if everything goes right, then it's not a problem'. By your logic, we wouldn't need drivers licences. If you don't crash or kill someone, what's the problem with not having a licence?

Let me re-word my question:

Outside of breaking the company's rule of "do not buy/sell NX"; by trading 85 mil mesos for a 1 day hired merchant shop, what are you doing that's wrong or harmful to the game or the company? It's unreasonable to think that there's anything wrong with doing that within that context.

You are harming the game by distorting Nexon's sales reports. This provides them with misleading information on
a) where the sales are coming from
b) purchasing habits of its consumers
These are vital to how the company operates and its future business strategies.

The rule is there to help protect the players. It's to prevent you from being scammed.

[Words]

I think it's been thoroughly established that we're throwing the TOS/rules/in-game messages out of the window here. Ethics.

Let me re-word my question:

Outside of breaking the company's rule of "do not buy/sell NX"; by trading 85 mil mesos for a 1 day hired merchant shop, what are you doing that's wrong or harmful to the game or the company? It's unreasonable to think that there's anything wrong with doing that within that context.

Make up your mind. Morals or ethics?
The answer depends on WHY the rule is there. It's there to avoid possible scams, that's enough for me to think the rule is fair. Until they decide to make UI for such trades it shouldn't be allowed to trade NX. Regardless, it's wrong either way, no matter how you put it. Because, if you knowingly do something that might get you and others banned there's no way you can make it morally/ethically correct. Buying and selling nx is wrong.
I don't understand the funny blinking example. Is that you trying to make a seriously wrong ban comparable to a legit ban? Or just off topic discussion?
Anyway, your threads are getting funnier.

[SaptaZapta]

Is it morally wrong to punish you for doing what you are repeatedly told not to do?
Of course not.
Yours is not to reason why the rule is in place. It may be a stupid business decision from Nexon, but that doesn't make it immoral, either. As long as you are constantly reminded of the rule you can't yell "unfair" when it's actually acted on. Unlike your "blinked funny" analogy.

[IImaplers]

Stores such as 7-Eleven that stock up on Karma Coins have exclusive rights obtained from Nexon to sell its virtual currency. You do not. That is the difference. The fact that both parties are getting something out of the transaction is commercial gain.

Also, you seem to have the mentality that 'if everything goes right, then it's not a problem'. By your logic, we wouldn't need drivers licences. If you don't crash or kill someone, what's the problem with not having a licence?

Again, this thread is not questioning the legality but the morality of the situation in the sense of level of reason. I never said the rule makes no sense. I said that banning for it being broken without being cautious or reasonable is wrong. There may hypothetically be some ridiculous law/provision in a suburb of say Nebraska which states that it is within a police officer's right to arrest you and throw you in jail for a day just for jaywalking with no cars in the near vicinity. That doesn't make some smart-ass cop actually doing that to someone an acceptable act. Does it?

[Words]

Again, this thread is not questioning the legality but the morality of the situation. I never said the rule makes no sense. I said that banning for it being broken without being cautious or reasonable is wrong.

What's the point of the rule then?

[IImaplers]

Make up your mind. Morals or ethics?
The answer depends on WHY the rule is there. It's there to avoid possible scams, that's enough for me to think the rule is fair. Until they decide to make UI for such trades it shouldn't be allowed to trade NX. Regardless, it's wrong either way, no matter how you put it. Because, if you knowingly do something that might get you and others banned there's no way you can make it morally/ethically correct. Buying and selling nx is wrong.
I don't understand the funny blinking example. Is that you trying to make a seriously wrong ban comparable to a legit ban? Or just off topic discussion?
Anyway, your threads are getting funnier.

Morals are ethics, silly. scratch that, I admit I wasn't too clear.

@Words What's the point of the marijuana rule if the federal and state rules contradict each other? The point is that it's not as simple as a rule either being broken or not being broken. Therefore, rationality has to be present within those who enforce the rules.

[SaptaZapta]

Again, this thread is not questioning the legality but the morality of the situation in the sense of level of reason. I never said the rule makes no sense. I said that banning for it being broken without being cautious or reasonable is wrong. There may hypothetically be some ridiculous law/provision in a suburb of say Nebraska which states that it is within a police officer's right to arrest you and throw you in jail for a day just for jaywalking with no cars in the near vicinity. That doesn't make some smart-ass cop actually doing that to someone an acceptable act. Does it?

If there were signs every few yards along the streets that jaywalking is forbidden, then yes, it would be an acceptable act for the cop to arrest you.

[IImaplers]

If there were signs every few yards along the streets that jaywalking is forbidden, then yes, it would be an acceptable act for the cop to arrest you.

But not throw you in jail too for a day? There's a thin line between acceptable and overbearing.

[Polantaris]

Just going to say this right now, Blizzard suspends people who trade real world goods for in-game currency, or vice-versa. I don't see why Nexon wouldn't do the same thing if they were actually competent.

I find this comparison amusing, considering Diablo 3 was practically built around the concept of paying real world money for virtual goods from other players on a scale so large it's not even funny.

The only difference between doing it in the market system and doing it outside of the market system is that Blizzard does or doesn't get a cut depending on which it is.

As for the fairness of banning players for it, yes. I believe it is morally fair. They clearly have stated it multiple times that you are not to do it, and you will be banned for doing it. Is it morally right? Well, that's a different story, and really, up to huge debate. I believe there's the huge situation of worrying about scammers that any MMO publisher has to deal with, and to ban the practice outright is a pretty understandable thing.

The true answer is pseudo selling, where you can put NX items into the market. My understanding is that GMS doesn't allow this at all. JMS has limited allowance of this, but I know that KMS has basically free reign in selling NX items in shops. I believe that allowing that is as good as it would get, but free buying/selling is a scammer's playground, and I understand completely why it is a bannable offense.

[Nion]

I'm just going to answer your question: Yes.

It's like saying "would you help a homeless man by giving him change knowing that he was a criminal".
Er actually scratch that.

[Dudewitbow]

But not throw you in jail too for a day? There's a thin line between acceptable and overbearing.

there were signs already telling you to not do the action. if they keep reminding you to not do it, and then you do it, going to jail for the day would be acceptable, as you had no decency to actually read the sign and actually listen to what it said.

[YennoX]

But not throw you in jail too for a day? There's a thin line between acceptable and overbearing.

And you're the one who defines where the line is, right?

[Five Second Pose]

Morals are ethics, silly.

Ethics come from morals. Morals are not ethics. I've done enough organizational behaviour to know.

[SaptaZapta]

But not throw you in jail too for a day? There's a thin line between acceptable and overbearing.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

You can read the signs saying jaywalking is forbidden. You don't bother checking what the law says the punishment is, you just go happily breaking the law because "what's the worst the cops will do?" You don't think that if they have so many signs about it, maybe they take it really seriously?

Anyway, sorry you had such a bad scare with the recent accidental(?) billingpp bans. However, convincing yourself it's "immoral" to ban for NX selling is not going to do you any good, nor protect you if Nexon decides to ban. (It may well be that they never will because it makes no business sense, and the rule is only there to absolve them of responsibility for scams. That's their choice, though). Even if every single player agreed with you.

[Dark Link]

I find this comparison amusing, considering Diablo 3 was practically built around the concept of paying real world money for virtual goods from other players on a scale so large it's not even funny.

The only difference between doing it in the market system and doing it outside of the market system is that Blizzard does or doesn't get a cut depending on which it is.

Yeah, it is a bit of an oxymoron. There's been numerous people on my WoW server who tried selling stuff worth real life value (Battle Chests, Time Cards, Loot Cards) for in-game gold (20k+) and got banned / suspended over it.

[Seanny]

If Nexon had been actively enforcing and banning people for it all along, this thread would not exist.

However, just because something hasn't been enforced in ages, doesn't mean it shouldn't ever start being enforced.