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  1. Neutron Straight Male
    IGN: LegitLance
    Server: Renegades
    Level: 228
    Job: Dark Knight
    Guild: Solitude
    Alliance: FISH

    Default The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    I don't know if im the only one who has noticed this, and i doubt i am, but there has just been a gap growing and growing and growing between the funded community and the non-funded community.

    For example :
    (These sats and damages are made up completely just for you to get the point)

    Hermits damage - 4-5k per star (unfunded)
    Hermits damage - 8-10k per star (funded)

    The difference there is merely 4-5k difference, when nexon came out with bosses, they came out with bosses that required multiple users to go and fight. A group of 18 unfunded people could go take on zakum and kill it around 45 minutes to an hour depending on if you apples or not at one point.
    A group of 6-12 funded people could go kill it in around the same time if not a little slower or faster depending on their level of funding and amount of people in the 6-12.

    Oh boy...
    Kaisers damage - 600-800k per line with gigas wave. (funded, some even do 800-1m)
    Kaisers damage - 80k-110k per line with gigas (unfunded, maybe with about 10-20% str and a decent sword)

    Here the difference is so immense... I understand your damage tends to only effect you, and you only. But this is what issue im raising. What playable content is available for those 80-110k kaisers that is available to the 600-800k?
    Empress - lets not even kid ourselves, without funding it isnt even possible to kill empress with a group of unfunded people. And everyone i seem to know that is funded usually goes with 2-3 people to kill it max.
    Magnus - some OP players hitting damage cap cant even kill it, does nexon expect its unfunded players to have the ability to party up and take it down?
    Pink Bean/Czak/CHT - ok a little mediation here, funded people can easily go solo these bosses, but semi-funded/unfunded people can still party up and go take them down just as well depending on how many people they take and what skills are available within the party.
    CPB - Again, just way too hard for unfunded players to even begin to fight, It takes quite a few funded people parties to kill it.
    HT/Zak/Pap - Unfunded people can still get a party of maybe 6-12 and go take these on, yes its still capable of soloing but why not party up and kill it for fun with a group of friends? Because funded people can nearly 1hko these, while a party of unfunded people on the other hand can down them in a little while. It'd still be a fun run.

    Basically what i am trying to point out is the massive gap that nexon has created.
    Bosses need a median. Empress is too hard for unfunded people and too easy for funded people, 2-3 people for a hard boss? please. Or impossible for unfunded?

    Magnus - really not even a party boss since you share the amount of deaths, most people tend to trust themselves rather than party members.

    PB/Czak/CHT - perfect, killable, not too easy for funded but still kind of easy, and killable to unfunded people if they go in groups.

    CPB - Unfunded people can not even touch it, while funded people would do a fine job at competing against it.

    HT/Zak/Pap - normal people party up and kill it, but they are just way way way too easy for funded players.

    What new content can nexon possibly come out with that mediates this gap? What content could come out boss-wise thats enjoyable to both funded players (Who find bosses too easy, or near impossible), and Unfunded players (Who find some bosses applicable to their maple career and can kill, or will never even put a dent in them even if they acquire all of their unfunded friends to reach the max limit to enter the boss room).

    What boss content could that possibly be? And at this rate that its increasing, about to raise the damage cap to 50m? Those 30-50m people will need bosses to fight that they dont just 1hko, and therefore there will be yet another boss that an unfunded person will never reach no matter how many people he gathers.

    Nexon, fix this gap and stop increasing it. We need some mediation. Funded and Unfunded are becoming way to noticeable nowadays. All players should be able to kill whatever boss they choose by the level 200; It shouldnt be determined by how much money you spend is how far you get in the game.

    I apologize for my rant, and im sorry if no one else feels this way. But I just had to say it lol.

    (Some wording could be said better but i hope the gist of what im saying is understood)

    Another thing, like if one of my good friends is unfunded, bringing him to Empress would be near useless and no one wants to be just useless and a mooch... And i wouldn't want to go on like a regular zak run because i would kill it faster than he would want) It just makes it harder to play together in my opinion.

  2. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    I just came back to ms after taking a break that started around the time BB was released. In 2 and a half weeks with a 100% scrolled lvl 100 cannon and the rest of my gear being level 60 with a total of 6% str i was able to hit 145 with out much trouble. Aside from the sheer ease of leveling I too realized the wealth gap. Scar, zakum and pap have been successfully attempted by my returning friends and I but i'm not to sure about the other bosses mentioned above.

    I doubt they can scale bosses based on character damage. I guess because this game involves r/l cash the gap will just continue to increase.

    There is nothing like a party boss run, thats why I enjoyed cwkpq so much you req'd each class.

  3. Neutron Straight Male
    IGN: LegitLance
    Server: Renegades
    Level: 228
    Job: Dark Knight
    Guild: Solitude
    Alliance: FISH

    Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    I'm glad you share my view, its turned into this.
    1 Player can do more to a boss than some parties of 12 can. Which should not be plausible, and years ago wouldn't have even been thought of by players. The need to party for bosses has died. Hopefully Unlimited brings some of it back, however Unlimited raises the HP. Which will require funded people to party up to kill it. Which even MORE makes it impossible for unfunded players to kill.

  4. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    Unlimited will not bring it back, the gap is getting bigger with every major update. Bosses might get harder but an unfunded player is still a trillion miles away from a funded, which is where the entire problem is to be found. Who cares if the small minority of people with 300k range needs to party now when the vast majority can't even scratch those bosses?

  5. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    The only reason unlimited even REMOTELY promotes playing in parties is because each party member gets their own drops (only at major bosses I believe...). Otherwise, it just makes the damage whoring and solo play mindset far, far worse.

  6. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    I am not sure how I stand in this...
    At one side we got that bosses are (for unfunded players) still a considerable challenge. And in the past I really enjoyed teaming up with some funded players.
    Then we would wreck zakum with 3-5 unfunded and 1-2 funded players. Good part of that was that we would not have to endure 45~ minutes of zakum which would make it a bit boring at that point.

    On the other side, we are not living in the past anymore, many of my unfunded guildmembers are still able to solo zakum with clean equips and less then 10% base stat within 15 minutes or so.
    Now I understand that there is a gap, but I myself have been unfunded for YEARS before I managed to gather some mesos and slowly get better.
    And TBH I REALLY enjoyed that process. Seeing myself grow into the realm of "godlies" was one thing I enjoyed. And not lastly because of it's slowness.
    I am 100% sure that if I had become godly like 2 months after I started playing I would have quit before long. Now I am about to celebrate my 6 year maple experience.

    In summary:
    There is a gap, and it really sets apart unfunded from the funded players.
    BUT, that gap can be crossed by merching, training, teaming up and befriending other players who will help.
    One of my guildies (a bam) has paid about 10K NX in his entire 4 years of playing. Solely for buying a permanent pet.

    So I do not REALLY mind the gap, only that the process of crossing it can be a bit TO tedious.

  7. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    Y'see, I liked what Nexon did with Hilla. They made a 'normal' version of the boss, in which you and maybe some of your friends can go in and enjoy the content. Sure, the rewards aren't as great as they would be on the harder difficulty, but the experience of the boss fight can be had by unfunded and funded alike. On the other hand, if you chose to fund yourself, you could go for the 'hard' mode, and try and hunt for some of the more desirable drops. The exception to this is definitely Magnus, since both normal and hard difficulties are essentially the same in the way that it requires funding. Other than that though, Nexon left the decision to the player. But since then, things have changed.

    When Unlimited hit, it just plain out made bossing stupid. By merely adding several zero's to bosses health- that modification alone made most bosses inaccessible to not only unfunded players, but to many 'prior-to-this-update funded' players. In addition, the concept of Cygnus expeditions were erased; the limit of people you could bring in to fight the most sought after boss in the game from 36... to 6. That's it. By getting rid of Cygnus expeditions, it shows us that Nexon put further restriction to bossing, not an encouragement to invite your guild in to fight her. Furthermore, just adding a dozen zeros to a boss's health and slightly modifying the way they attack doesn't make the experience any more fun, imo. It makes the whole process a rich man's game and just more of a hassle in general. And for what? The same rewards. Unlimited, in my eyes, is probably my least favorite patch simply because it's a blatant money-grabber. It makes most bossing content that was otherwise accessible to the unfunded public... inaccessible. It increases the already overwhelming gap between those who are looking for a free-to-play experience... and those who go brain dead with their money. And people buy into it.

    Furthermore. I'd like to point out the people who solo'd bosses in the past were only able to do so because they chose to do so. The money they spend reflects itself in the damage that they do. It didn't affect how the public played the game at all; you didn't need to become that powerful in order to take on those bosses. The people you usually saw solo-ing a boss were probably (just to spit out a number) around 10% of the vast number of players that take occupy MapleStory daily. With Unlimited... that percentage will grow even lower. Even after several months, I still find it a pity.

  8. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    What I don't get is the people that has already spent big money on their gear. There's always something better being released and if you plan to keep up you need to upgrade and spend insane amounts of nx cubing and scrolling everything perfect again. When BB first came out, lv100+ gear were big deal and I knew people who spent 1k+ cubing it. Now it's empress gear, or even Magnus drops. Once players start killing Hard RA, the big thing everyone should have will be that... and they'll spend money again cubing and scrolling so they can get the same %stat they had before. I wouldn't know if there are any other big updates/upgrades, but the whole thing baffles me.
    How can anyone accept and be ok with the fact that no matter how much cash they spend their gear will be outdated in months/ a year/Idk...Of course every game has the same mechanic: new patch= better gear. But it isn't so troubling since in some cases you're not paying insane amounts of money to make one item better. What's worse is that people who spend that much money do nothing in the game, other than a couple bosses a day... and afk in fm. Still, I don't think there's a way for Nexon to close the gap a bit and keep making profit so the only possible solutions are not playing at all or just stay away from cubes/bossing/fast training.

  9. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    The only solution is to nerf potential. There is not a single other option. We need a cap on every different bonus you can get from it. People would still cube like hell to get the maximum out of it, but it would not make their damage a hundred times higher than the average player. If they scaled bosses after this, then we would not have a problem.

  10. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    I'm sure a lot of people would be pissed/ragequit if their 24%+ equips were suddenly downraded to, say, a 5% or 10% cap. That'd be a bad business move.

    Nexon could, however, modify the way that potential affects damage. Same thing, only going around it.

    The current way it is: 0% str? Okay, you deal uhh 50k damage. And 300% str? okay, you deal 700k damage.
    Just making up numbers.

    The 300% str in this case, increases your damage more than tenfold. 14 times exactly. You'd need an expedition of 14 unfunded people to match the damage.

    What they should do is change it to something more old school, make 300% stat just triple your damage. You'll go from 50k to 150k. You're still as strong as 3 players, that's nice!

    This is really what they should have done with potential in the first place.

    After doing that, they just need to stop making up stupidly high numbers (HURRR 50 MILLION CAP) and focus on making the gameplay interesting and a challenge, where players must cooperate and you know, all that stuff that makes MMORPGS actually good.

  11. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    Sure, that works too. It would essentially be the nerf I advocate in a nicer dress.

  12. Orbital Bee Cannon
    IGN: SaptaZapta
    Server: Kradia
    Level: 232
    Job: Hero
    Guild: Matriarchy
    Alliance: Dominion


    No. Nexon can't nerf potential because that would alienate their highest-paying customers. People who paid to see big numbers will be very unhappy to see those numbers shrinking.

    What should be done is make potential more accessible. Have (real) Cubes drop from monsters, or make them craftable. Raise the chance of crafting and fusing to give high-potential items, perhaps by using materials that are somewhat harder to obtain or require an extra stage of processing. (Don't turn it into a meso sink, though. This is meant to make the unfunded able to make their own good gear. The unfunded don't have too many meso.)
    Make it so a person can choose whether to work a real-life job and use the money to easily get cubes and high potential, or work hard in Maple and get the same high potential. Let the unfunded get 100k range and more, by applying themselves over a period of time.
    The funded will still be able to do it much faster, and on harder to obtain gear. They will still get higher damage - but they'll only be ten times as strong as the unfunded, not a hundred times as strong.

    But you're wrong. Having 300% STR makes you hit 4 times as hard (since your base str counts too).

    Damage formula: Damage = wpn * (4 * STR + DEX) * ATTACK / 100
    If your STR grows from 999 to 999+3000 your damage will be 4 times as much.

    So why do all these people with 300% STR hit 700k while the unfunded only hit 50K?
    Because they also have a LOT more ATTACK.
    The unfunded have an ordinary sword 60'ed to 120 w.att; the funded have a boss sword with higher base stats, more slots, perfect-scrolled and 10+ times enhanced, ending up with 240 w.att.
    When you add up the rest of their gear: shield, gloves, cape, shoes, rings, pendants... why, everything today can have attack on it (and lots of it), if you have the money. And set effects on top of that. The funded can easily have four-five times the w.att of the unfunded.

    So while the %STR "only" makes their damage 4 times as high, the additional attack makes their damage 5 times as high again. Multiplicatively. So they do 20 times the damage of a "normal" character.

  13. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    I was not necessarily saying it could be done, only what needs to happen if they which to fix the game. LegendGospel provided a better version of the idea that would not be a downright loss for people that cubed like crazy.

    Your idea is not bad either, but it less likely to happen because it would eat into the profit. Less people would buy cubes if it was moderatly doable to do it for free, and if it is too hard to do it, well, then it won't help with closing the gap either.

    People will keep cubing to perdition even if the outcome is diminished, because it will still keep the at a level where they are better than most. The numbers is less important compared to the sense of being superior.
    Last edited by CarrionCrow; 2013-03-11 at 08:55 AM.

  14. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    I agree with this. The answer isn't to nerf the system and screw over Nexon's highest paying customers. After all at the end of the day they are a business, and it wouldn't be wise to essentially flip off their biggest paying players. But at the same time they need to realize that they shouldn't alienate their unfunded players by making processes such as cubing a "premium" feature. It's arguable that cubes are one of the cash shop's biggest revenue generating items when some players choose spend hundreds of dollars on them in multiple instances. They can still keep up their sales with cash shop cubes, but at the same time they need to make that part of the game accessible to ALL of the players if they want everyone to have the same experience in game. Unlimited in way has taken a small step towards this with their MaplePoint exchange NPC in the FM. Although the current exchange rate (100m for below 1k mp) is horrendous, it's nice to see that they've at least given other players some accessibility to the premium items in the cash shop by means of mesos. The occult cube is another good change that comes with Unlimited. Tradable cubes that drop from bosses but only raise or drop the item rank between rare and epic. Maybe more cubes like this would be the solution for the unfunded. Craftable, or huntable cubes that work like the occult cube. Maybe one that has a chance to go from epic to unique, but has a chance to lower your rank. This makes the realm of cubing accessible to all players, but keeps the cubes of the cash shop as a premium for those who fork over the cash. With a system like this other players can slowly obtain the same kinds of equipment as paying players by simply putting in the time and effort to craft and hunt their own kind of cubes. If a person chooses to splurge money on the game in order to obtain a higher range quickly that's perfectly fine. However there should be a way for non-paying players to use the same kind of in game functions without having to pay a premium.

    I realize this doesn't directly relate to the topic at hand, but it would definitely make some higher tier bosses more accessible to non-paying players over time if a system for upgrading equipment like this was in place.

  15. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    They can just blame the Black Mage and his generals!
    Like they did with all the horrible things that have happened in MS!
    Like towns shrinking at Big Bang!
    Or resetting your ToT/Silent Crusade quests!
    Or revamped Buccs!

    Anyway, since ATT formula seems to be the problem and not %stats, why not just adjust the ATT formula instead?
    Or hell, just tinker whatever they have to tinker to make funded players outdamage you by 3x-4x times your damage or so, instead of doing 30-40 million more damage.

  16. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    Pretty sure if majority got hacked, came back and refunded themselves, a nerf on their damage won't leave even a dent the population. The people who pay that money don't want to see big numbers, they just want to make sure their numbers are bigger than other peoples numbers.

  17. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.


    If this is unfunded, I've been unfunded my entire Mapling career... All 7 and a half years of it. My Kaiser, with like... 34% STR, does around 50k per slash.

  18. Flatpanel TV Straight Male
    IGN: ͜ʖ
    Server: DEGZA
    Level: T_T
    Job: This is FParta!
    Guild: I like toast
    Alliance: @__________________@
    north korea

    Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    Yes, the gap is huge between the rich and the poor, but why shouldn't it be? The rich obviously contribute a lot more to the company than the poor.

  19. Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    Of course the paying customers should get perks, but when said perks amount to a situation where the free players are unable to participate in the most basic tasks, like bossing, what does that say? Nexon is ultimately shooting itself in the foot there, to say the least.

  20. Flatpanel TV Straight Male
    IGN: ͜ʖ
    Server: DEGZA
    Level: T_T
    Job: This is FParta!
    Guild: I like toast
    Alliance: @__________________@
    north korea

    Default Re: The increasing gap between players and bosses.

    My view on bossing is that it highly depends on how good a specific class is at bossing or how their survivability is. My F/P mage is highly funded yet I still die at a boss like chaos zakum about 3 times on average when solo-ing because mages and seduce+1/1 don't mix. I don't like that Nexon made upper-tier bosses Solo-able though. So I do agree with you that higher-spending players should get more perks, but it seems more class-specific than money-specific how much survivability a player may have at bosses which I'm not saying is fair either.

    I guess that most bosses should have a "free" version and a "funded" version like Hilla. But keep in mind that not everyone who hits caps most of the time can solo/party hell-mode hilla either *raises hand*.

    Nexon shoots themselves in the foot by making the game 100% free too imo. It's overrun with beggars, cheaters and hackers who have nothing to lose if they get caught; they are the equivalent of stereotypical people on welfare choosing to stay unemployed yet 100% able to work all sorts of jobs; and receiving benefits for doing basically nothing irl. Do those people deserve to be closer to the average or funded players who play fair? If they were to require a person to pay 5 little bucks per month, I guarantee the disparity wouldn't be so huge.

    People think of it like a 1% versus 99% mentality. But the truth is that I'd estimate about 95% of those 1%-ers in maple didn't become what they are by playing the game the way it was intended to be played.

    Sorry for going off tangents, but these are a few of my views.



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