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  1. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    I was under the impression that after a 6 month period it's illegal to do an abortion as it's seen as manslaughter? Some fetus timeline or something. Not really something I can research appropriately with a work computer unfortunately

  2. Orbital Bee Cannon
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    Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    I have no idea. Probably varies between jurisdictions. Also, I only watched the video once, but I didn't hear them saying she was giving birth. Just that she was pregnant and her heart was failing. So we don't know whether this was before or after the 6 month mark.

  3. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    IMO a reasonable man would be willing to save another if it is within one's abilities and does not put one in harm's way (directly, that is). I'm starting to wonder if these doctors are being reasonable or not... They define a fetus that is delivered as a baby and therefore a living person, while if it's still inside the mother and it dies (e.g. miscarriage/delivery failure) then they're not liable to homicide because it's not delivered and therefore not a living person?

    Are there states that do not allow abortion because the state law dictates that a fetus is a living person? (I know this is going abit off, but this is related to what Sapta said...)

    This is... strange. To me.

    Hadriel

  4. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    Yes, but I'm under the assumption this was a late time during pregnancy and their refusal is odd which is the bottom line. If someones dying there's no harm trying to get the babies out as a possibility, now they are trying to fall back on the very law they try to change.

  5. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    Ahh, the old "Preach something until it bites me in the ass then completely change my ideas and pretend like I never said it even when there's video proof."

  6. Mercury Straight Male
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    Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    I think its more like this

    and as much of a bullpomegranate thing to do, they could very well have a point.

  7. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    It's not a could, it's a do. In the eyes of the law, they did nothing wrong. The law says fetuses are not human (or whatever the exact language of it is), therefore it is not acceptable for the hospital to be sued for manslaughter.

  8. Mercury Straight Male
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    Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    I think it depends on the age of the fetus/children in question though. I'm pretty sure you can't abort a fetus after awhile though I'm not sure of an exact date. If they made no effort when the children could have very well survived and developed without the mother then the defense kind of goes out the window. Although the law may think differently.

  9. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    As far as I know, it is legal in every state to abort a baby when the mother's health is at risk.

  10. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    You and everyone should actually watch the video, it's very clear what happened. The mother was dead, they refused to do a c-section to see if they could save the kids. The disgusting hypocrites are trying to use the law they have been trying to change 3 times now. And I have found, in majority of the united states, including colorado, it's illegal to get an abortion after 3 months. This women was 7 months pregnant.

  11. Mercury Straight Male
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    Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    and what does that have to do with anything?

    From what little information the video does indeed give, the mother was having heart failure(it wasn't stated if the pregnancy was or was not the cause) and asked them to save the kids. The mother was going to die. If she was 7 months pregnant as Khainiwest says, then the children could have certainly grown and developed without the mother, as tragic as it may be. The hospital should atleast try and save them at that point.

  12. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    It is illegal to get late term abortions in most states. However, virtually every state have abortions legal if the mother is in danger (and then a few have it legal in cases of rape and incest). It's just a random tibdbit I was throwing out since you all seem so misinformed.

    It is not a matter of the Catholic church flip-flopping. The Catholic church did not issue a formal statement: "We are pro-life in cases of our finances, then we are pro-choice." It is a matter of the law. It is not legal to be sued for manslaughter when in Colorado fetuses are not considered living. Now I don't know the entirety of the law and whether it's a matter of fetus is viable, fetus is birthed, or fetus could be birthed. However, as far as I'm concerned, they have a sound case even if it is against what they typically believe. Sapta hit the nail on the head, and for whatever reason, you basically ignored her point.

  13. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    The law they have been trying to change for 3 years is ironically the one they fall back on, or try too. It's hypocritical and frankly pretty shallow considering how they throw away their loud opinion over a law suit. Lose lose situation for them.

    I fixed that for you. You seem to have a problem of trying to get your 2-cents in without even doing any research. Uneducated statement is uneducated

    I find it funny how you just declare that they are right and try to apply your limited experience/knowledge on the matter. The reason I ignored sapta's point is because it's just incorrect.



    Considering it was 7 months in, the denial of trying to save them, with both mother/father consent is not justified medical termination. Period.

    http://statelaws.findlaw.com/colorad...tion-laws.html

    Feel free to end this conversation by pomegranateting my post and never looking at the thread again, very common practice for you it seems.

  14. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    Never said that it wasn't hypocritical, tacky, etc. I just said it was legally sound. Good work putting words into my mouth, maybe one day I'll do it to you.


    Fetus is not a person. Therefore, cannot be manslaughter. Did a little more research, Colorado considers life to begin at birth.

    And your experience....? I mean, you're no more (if not less) experienced than I am. Unless you count e-justice, I guess you'd probably be an expert on that.

    Not sure where you're going with this but immediately after the definition of an illegal abortion, which you gave, it gives the definition of a legal abortion.
    Death of mother, the abortion would have been legal. How interesting.

    Will do. Perhaps if you respond with something of substance I'll be coerced into responding, but I doubt it.

  15. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    Completely ignore my relevant point. Okay.


    Although my job does not deal specifically with criminal justice, I do in fact have to talk with lawyers on a daily basis concerning tax law. It's the same jargon pretty much. Foot in your mouth twice now.


    I'm sorry, would you care to point where you read that? I feel like you're trying make up statements to benefit your argument.

    Intentional ending of pregnancy by licensed physician using accepted medical procedures and as required, with appropriate consent. Continuation of pregnancy likely to result in death or permanent physical or mental impairment of mother, or child born with grave mental or physical retardation, or within first 16 weeks of pregnancy and pregnancy result of sexual assault or incest. Court declared unconstitutional, but not repealed

    With basic sentence comprehension you can see the following bolded points.

    It's legal to do an abortion at any time if the pregnancy is killing the mother. This is not the case, the mother was suffering heart failure and they refused to attempt to save the children. Although I will correct myself and mistakenly put manslaughter when I meant to put malpractice. Again, if you watched the video or actually looked for the article you would see they are in fact suing for malpractice, which would have been a legitimate correction you could have used.

    Tut tut.

  16. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    Didn't see anything relevant other than bashing the Catholic Church for being hypocritical and flip-flopping on a law that they've been working to defeat. Nothing of relevance in a legal case.

    And if we're going off of experience based off of association and talking to tax lawyers (the reality: similar jargon, different execution), then I'd be just as experienced given the fact that I've taken two classes on American law with both of my professors being in the legal profession (one a Supreme Court judge in Missouri). I'm still in regular contact with these people. I've also sat in on numerous court martials as well.

    Just because you talk with them, doesn't mean you have actual experience. Theory is one thing and execution is another.

    Same place where you found it, different interpretations. Facts and circumstances is everything in law, which you should know from all your talks with tax lawyers. From my research, all I've found was a blocked artery. It's hard to say whether or not that blocked artery can be attributed to stress, bad luck, or bad life habits. There's not really enough information out there to determine whether or not you can attribute the pregnancy playing a role (or at least for a judge) in any way to her death.

    Didn't watch the full extent of the video. Also, the same article used by TYT uses malpractice and wrongful death (manslaughter) interchangeably. The description of the video uses wrongful death and then within the first ten seconds of the video, the anchor uses malpractice. It's a mere distinction, hence why I didn't correct it.

    But real actual last post this time. im srs. supa srs.

  17. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    The response was towards the entity of the entire post, as it was regarding the legality of the case.



    It's not association, my job is essentially enforcing and defining more than 8 different type of tax codes in my state. Although IFTA could be considered internationally (internationl fuel trade agreement). Your terrible attention to detail kind of destroys any form of credibility of either your claims or your teachers. Just sayin.

    Sorry, I was under the assumption that you knew what my job was as I was vocal about it for months. I deal with almost every type of tax/state legislature in my state. I don't directly write the laws, but I do directly enforce them, which means understanding them.

    Talking out of your ass to save face I see. I copied and pasted the entire definition you tried to throw in my face. There's no interpretation, you're wrong, its clearly stated and there's no ambiguous vocabulary to deter to any alternative. You either misread it or simply don't understand it.



    Are you f`ucking serious?! You're trying to fall back on the possibility that her pregnancy caused a clogged artery thus heart failure? I would love for you to find me an example of that, but I'm no doctor. Although your elementary definition of how "law" work's was kind of cute considering you can't actually hold a relevant argument case and point;


    Why is this relevant? The malpractice is not anywhere associated with why the mother died, it's the lack of action the doctors took. Under the fathers consent they should have done what he asked. Again I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure, especially if the f`ucking mother is dead, they have an obligation, legally to take his request, unless, because I know you'll point this irrelevant point out, it puts the patient in danger. The person was dead, attempting to save those kids brought no harm to anyone, period. It was corner cutting and that's it, otherwise the catholic hospital would give us a real excuse rather than 'oh...according to the state law, which we want to change...we shouldn't be convicted!".

  18. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    Only if the procedure is in a dire emergency and there no way of obtaining consent from the spouse/parents/guardian without the patient dying, then can they do the procedure without consent. Consent is a rather big thing in medical profession... And the pregnancy causing an embolism? Right......

    Urrgh my language is going out of the window.

    Hadriel

  19. Orbital Bee Cannon
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    Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    I find the discussion about who has more legal expertise rather ridiculous.
    The line of defense I posted is not my idea. It's what the hospital's defense attorney came up with. TYT quoted it directly.
    One would assume that the defense attorney in the case would know more, both about the law in his state and about the details of the case, than anyone here. Unless, of course, the hospital skimps on its legal expenses, and hired an idiot who's going to be laughed out of court.

  20. Default Re: Catholic Hospital Says Fetus Isn't Human Life


    Who even questioned this?

    If you followed the conversation I questioned his competency considering the information he was spouting was dead on wrong. He erroneously questioned "legal" experience, which I don't have a problem clarifying, though irrelevant. Note I will question the credibility when such details and straight up lying is in his retorts.

    @hadriel;

    Exactly, consent is everything in that proffesion, which is why it's to me, ridiculous they would deny it, there was no negative consequence for attempting to do so.

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