Battleship

[JoeTang]

There's that whole Band of Thieves thing too if you want to talk that way.

[Harrisonized]

No; no one would worry about the durability and cooldown of Battleship if it could be easily healed by a priest or bishop.

And no one would worry about the durability when the cooldown of Battleship if it could be easily reset by Time Leap?

~~~~~

He said Arrow Blow.

"But unlike Arrow Blow, where the..."

But unlike Arrow Blow, where the source of the problem is a typo, this is just a design flaw. This confuses the hell out of me.

I know he said arrow blow. And what's wrong with Arrow Blow? Seems fine to me. Gets stronger as you level it.

Also, you could argue Final Attack, and how Crusher 16 < Crusher 15.

Yes, but eventually, the skill at Level 21 will = the Level 15 Crusher, then will hit even more targets at Level 26, so it betters with progression.

There's that whole Band of Thieves thing too if you want to talk that way.

I don't get it. What's wrong with Band of Thieves. It betters with progression.

~~~~~

No; no one would worry about the durability and cooldown of Battleship if it could be easily healed by a priest or bishop.

It's nexon. That should explain everything.

The only thing is, I wonder if people have actually gotten more than level 1 battleship and tested the formula. I always speculated that maybe there is a hidden term in the formula that turns to 0 at level 1 battleship

i.e. 2000*(level-120) + 4000*battleship level + 100000*(battleship level-1)

Little bit of an exaggeration with the number but the concept could be there. I don't know of anyone who has ever gotten more than level 1 and tested it by taking damage, recording it, and find an exact value by taking 1s or 50s [etc] from monsters.

So the battleship is a glitch now and not a design flaw?

~~~~~

Perhaps, but you'll notice she uses Ice Splitter a lot to avoid being attacked on two sides at once, a tactic that doesn't work at bosses.

Yes it does. You can dismount before a boss attacks you. And as it's been mentioned in the previous posts, the HP of the Ship doesn't decrease with 1/1, which is a boss' main attack. Thus, you can probably, and quite easily, last 10 minutes until it needs to be reset with Time Leap.

Actually, can it even be reset with Time Leap, because the cooldown works somewhat differently than all the other cooldowns in the game.

[Russt]

Fiel found a formula in the source that looks like the Battleship HP formula. No hidden terms.

I know he said arrow blow. And what's wrong with Arrow Blow? Seems fine to me. Gets stronger as you level it.

18 - 248%
19 - 283% - Nexon's typo, should probably have been 253%
20 - 260%

[Harrisonized]

18 - 248%
19 - 283% - Nexon's typo, should probably have been 253%
20 - 260%

Then that wouldn't be a design flaw...
It's definitely a typo.
Has anyone actually tested to see whether or not it does 253% damage or 283% damage?

Fiel found a formula in the source that looks like the Battleship HP formula. No hidden terms.

Formula for Battleship Endurance: [(Skill Level * 4000)] + [(Character Level - 120) * 2000]

i.e. 2000*(level-120) + 4000*battleship level + 100000*(battleship level-1)

Eh... neither of those were from Fiel. Since I am unaware of Fiel's extractation of the Battleship HP formula, would you mind linking me to them?

[Russt]

It does 283% damage. The typo was in the skill file, ie damage calculation, not the string file, ie description.

Fiel didn't publicly post his "extraction" anywhere. He just C&P'd a line of code into IRC and said it looked like the formula in the thread. And it does, except that the result is actually 1/10 of what Bribery posted. That might mean Battleship really takes only 1 damage for every 10 you take, but has a tenth of the HP; its effective endurance ends up being the same anyway, so it doesn't matter except for minute rounding differences.

[Bribery]

It does 283% damage. The typo was in the skill file, ie damage calculation, not the string file, ie description.

Fiel didn't publicly post his "extraction" anywhere. He just C&P'd a line of code into IRC and said it looked like the formula in the thread. And it does, except that the result is actually 1/10 of what Bribery posted. That might mean Battleship really takes only 1 damage for every 10 you take, but has a tenth of the HP; its effective endurance ends up being the same anyway, so it doesn't matter except for minute rounding differences.

Just wishful thinking here: does the "1/10th" reduction have anything to do with the weapon def it adds? Maybe it'll take 1/100th of the damage at level 10.


Assuming the formulas are 100% correct, level 1 is still the best. The cooldown is 4x less than level 10. The only time where level 1 and level 10 are proportional is at level 124, where they both have the same endurance:cooldown ratio. Every level beyond 124, level 1 is better.

[Russt]

Just wishful thinking here: does the "1/10th" reduction have anything to do with the weapon def it adds? Maybe it'll take 1/100th of the damage at level 10.

LOL no. Unfortunately it just seems to add to your stat window def.

[Harrisonized]

And it does, except that the result is actually 1/10 of what Bribery posted. That might mean Battleship really takes only 1 damage for every 10 you take, but has a tenth of the HP; its effective endurance ends up being the same anyway, so it doesn't matter except for minute rounding differences.

So it works like Puppet but it's a mount?

Just wishful thinking here: does the "1/10th" reduction have anything to do with the weapon def it adds? Maybe it'll take 1/100th of the damage at level 10.

That^ might make more sense...

Assuming the formulas are 100% correct, level 1 is still the best. The cooldown is 4x less than level 10. The only time where level 1 and level 10 are proportional is at level 124, where they both have the same endurance:cooldown ratio. Every level beyond 124, level 1 is better.

I have the biggest problem with this.

But anyways, yea, my question is answered. It's still strange how Nexon made it worse with progression, but w/e...

Does anyone have anything higher than Level 1 ship? Because if they do, I'd seriously like to see it...

[Russt]

Basically, there's a value somewhere in the memory that has exactly 1/10th of what we believe Battleship's HP is supposed to be. So the formula is "correct", I'd trust.

What works like Puppet?

[Harrisonized]

What works like Puppet?

The way the thing takes "reduced" damage.

[Dusk]

I don't get it. What's wrong with Band of Thieves. It betters with progression.

Level 18: MP -30; Basic attack 180%, 3 "other selves" will attack enemies
Level 19: MP -40; Basic attack 140%, 4 "other selves" will attack enemies

You tell me which is better, 4 target mob skill for 720% damage total or a 5 target mob skill for 700% damage total (assuming you hit 5 mobs, which happens less often than hitting 4. It happens at other skill levels, but level 18-19 is the worst deal ever.

Same with Spear Crusher when you move from

Level 15: MP -16; Basic attack 120%, attack 3 enemy 2 times
Level 16: MP -19; Basic attack 124%, attack 1 enemy 3 times.

Battleship doesn't hit certain levels that are better to skip, though. It appears that it simply gets worse.

[Russt]

Not to mention that Crusher gets slower at level 16 to compensate for the extra hit animation. >_>

But yeah, Battleship just gets inverse-ly worse... I'd just call it a design flaw. What do attack arrows do? Why are level 7x monsters so worthless in terms of HP/EXP ratio? Why does a WK get a debuff that doesn't even pertain to them?

[Harrisonized]

I don't get it. What's wrong with Band of Thieves. It betters with progression.

Level 18: MP -30; Basic attack 180%, 3 "other selves" will attack enemies
Level 19: MP -40; Basic attack 140%, 4 "other selves" will attack enemies

You tell me which is better, 4 target mob skill for 720% damage total or a 5 target mob skill for 700% damage total (assuming you hit 5 mobs, which happens less often than hitting 4. It happens at other skill levels, but level 18-19 is the worst deal ever.

Level 18: MP -30; Basic attack 180%, 3 "other selves" will attack enemies
Level 19: MP -40; Basic attack 140%, 4 "other selves" will attack enemies

Level 30: MP -50; Basic attack 210%, 5 "other selves" will attack enemies

You'd still be better off maxing the skill. It's not like battleship, which doesn't get better at Lv 10. For example, if at level 9, suddenly you get 45 sec cooldown and the cooldown disappears at level 10, then you can say that it betters with progression, but that's not the case here, so I don't get what you're trying to point out. If the max level or near max level is the best, then it levels with progression. You can say "well, Elemental Amplification for mages has discrepancies in the MP useage which makes one level worse than the next", but then you'd still max it, whereas with the battleship you would not.

Same with Spear Crusher when you move from

Level 15: MP -16; Basic attack 120%, attack 3 enemy 2 times
Level 16: MP -19; Basic attack 124%, attack 1 enemy 3 times.

Yes, but eventually, the skill at Level 21 will = the Level 15 Crusher, then will hit even more targets at Level 26, so it betters with progression.

Yes, again, the maxed level is what you're better off getting.

Battleship doesn't hit certain levels that are better to skip, though. It appears that it simply gets worse.

Exactly. So instead of pointing out flaws within maxing a skill, why don't you point out ones that simply gets worse?

[Takebacker]

Battleship does better with progression.

However, it worsens with progression as you progress.

[Russt]

Battleship does better with progression.

However, it worsens with progression as you progress.

It betters as you progress, but it does so unevenly depending on what level Battleship you have. That's why level 1 ends up being superior.

[Takebacker]

It betters as you progress, but it does so unevenly depending on what level Battleship you have. That's why level 1 ends up being superior.

At level 124, level 1 and level 10 are proportional in endurance:cooldown ratio.

I'm assuming that at any level before 124 where you have 2+ battleship, it's endurance:cooldown ratio is better than level 1 battleship at the same level.

Thus, the skill gets better as you level it but as you level it gets worse.

B> significant def formula changes.

(*pokes your PM inbox*)

[Russt]

The skill gets better as you level, not worse >_>

Lower levels of the skill improve faster than higher levels as you level, which is why it's relatively worse to have a high level Battleship. But it never actually gets "worse" as you level up.

@ PM: Do your own calcs
They're right as far as I can tell.

[Takebacker]

The skill gets better as you level, not worse >_>

Lower levels of the skill improve faster than higher levels as you level, which is why it's relatively worse to have a high level Battleship. But it never actually gets "worse" as you level up.

@ PM: Do your own calcs
They're right as far as I can tell.

>_>

I'm confusing myself.

The skill gets better as you level, not worse >_>

The skill obviously gets better as you level the skill itself. However, the skill (at anything greater than level 2) gets worse compared to level 1 as your level increases. Of course the skill itself never gets worse as you level, just the skills level in relation to the other ones.

@ PM: :]

Can you just help me with the AP with MW? I'll not bother joo after dat. :[

[Dusk]

Nexon should do what they should have done ages ago. Make defense a useful stat. The defense from anything excluding ZHelms and HT Pendants is pretty much worthless. You need massive amounts of defense to shear off a couple hundred damage, when the monsters are hitting in the high thousands.

Or they should upgrade the defense on Battleship to like +1000.

There's so many things you can do to fix Battleship.

[Takebacker]

Nexon should do what they should have done ages ago. Make defense a useful stat. The defense from anything excluding ZHelms and HT Pendants is pretty much worthless. You need massive amounts of defense to shear off a couple hundred damage, when the monsters are hitting in the high thousands.

Or they should upgrade the defense on Battleship to like +1000.

There's so many things you can do to fix Battleship.

I fancy the idea of making it +4k HP and + 10 seconds of cooldown every level instead of +30 seconds more than improving def.

The def will come in handy in general and for everyone assuming they do a good job though.

Meh.