The Reality of our "Content"

[icephoenix21]

I do completely agree with you.
However, at least for me, training is the last thing I do.
I train link skill mules to 70, and deck characters to 120, and rarely touch them again.

All I do in Maple are the events, bossing, merching, and improving my gear.
Through events/bossing, there is a bit of conversing that goes on within my guild, and I'd daresay that is one reason why they are an older guild that is still strong.
Once again, I'm not defending Nexon by any means, I'm just saying that I don't train, which I'm personally okay with, but not denying the fact that the game does indeed lack content.

[Jedward]

Reality: As only street has said, not everyone spends 100% of their time at those monsters.

At low levels, many, many characters simply do their storyline quests. I think you forget that Flaming Golems and Mixed Golems are good experience, as are Cool Jellyfish.

2nd job: The old standbys are still there (CDs, Kitties, Luster Pixies) and are being trained at! I was training my 50 Fighter at Lusters while looking for beauty coupons, and I ran into characters everywhere. Not to mention the theme dungeons: Mushroom Kingdom, Kerning Square and even Chryse are still getting hits. The fact that Xerxes and Pepe can be soloed now helps with this, because that means afforadble, easy-to-get glasses and weapons.

3rd job: Yes. I do admit that I spent quite an amount of time in Aliens. But you know what exists? MONSTER PARK. It's only for 35 levels in 3rd (and I will say that I think Nexon made a mistake making that gap, although the only solution would really be making a fourth monster park portal), but it's a good 35 levels. By farming tickets while grinding you can spend a significant amount of time there. And if you can solo the park well enough, then that gives you a fountain of equipment (that come pre-potentialed 100% of the time) and experience. Not to mention it's a party play zone. Besides that there are also Dual Ghost Pirates and Gigantic Spirit Vikings, Master Death Teddies and Grims, Violent Boars (heck, they made Ellin Forest a theme dungeon), etc. There's still some variation here.

4th job: LHC, sure. Yeah. Neo City says hi? Dragon Turtles and Cornians? LHC is not the best place to be. In fact, if you can't get a party together you might as well not go to LHC at all, which has been the situation for me sometimes. And again, Monster Park exists after 135, which is a great place that has some diversity to it. There are even parks all the way up to 200.

High-end 4th job: I agree with you here. Besides the 165+ parks, bossing and Future Ereve, there really isn't much. I do keep wishing they would make more content for this level range.

tl;dr: I'm not disagreeing with you. I think that the monsters you listed are overpowered, and I'm also guilty of spending a significant amount of time there. I just think that you need to widen your view and lower your expectations a bit. Not everyone in MapleStory plays like an optimist would, which is what you seem to be targeting here.

Out of the three main MMORPGs I've played I think this only applies to Maple Story. The other two games I play (Glitch, Kingdom of Loathing) either lack a distinctive end-game as the fun there doesn't require cash or high damage or the end-game is basically a lead-on to a second end-game because you need to have played a LOT before you can even figure out how to enter the newly designed area the developers have come up with or be strong enough. Oh, and you don't need cash either, just a lot of patience and the intelligence to figure out the most efficient way that still lets you enjoy yourself.

KoL doesn't really have an end-game (when you have all your skills and all the shinies, which is impossible?) so I wouldn't really be able to dump it into this discussion. KoL is more about tricks to lessening time spent at, or outright skipping zones. Although that's about to change.

Then there are the world events that seem to just stop everyone in their tracks, because there are lots of cool stuff to do and get.

[Curtiss]

Reality: As only street has said, not everyone spends 100% of their time at those monsters.

At low levels, many, many characters simply do their storyline quests. I think you forget that Flaming Golems and Mixed Golems are good experience, as are Cool Jellyfish.

2nd job: The old standbys are still there (CDs, Kitties, Luster Pixies) and are being trained at! I was training my 50 Fighter at Lusters while looking for beauty coupons, and I ran into characters everywhere. Not to mention the theme dungeons: Mushroom Kingdom and even Chryse are still getting hits. The fact that Xerxes and Pepe can be soloed now helps with this, because that means afforadble, easy-to-get glasses and weapons.

3rd job: Yes. I do admit that I spent quite an amount of time in Aliens. But you know what exists? MONSTER PARK. It's only for 35 levels in 3rd (and I will say that I think Nexon made a mistake making that gap, although the only solution would really be making a fourth monster park portal), but it's a good 35 levels. By farming tickets while grinding you can spend a significant amount of time there. And if you can solo the park well enough, then that gives you a fountain of equipment (that come pre-potentialed 100% of the time) and experience. Not to mention it's a party play zone.

4th job: LHC, sure. Yeah. Neo City says hi? Dragon Turtles and Cornians? LHC is not the best place to be. In fact, if you can't get a party together you might as well not go to LHC at all, which has been the situation for me sometimes. And again, Monster Park exists after 135, which is a great place that has some diversity to it. There are even parks all the way up to 200.

tl;dr: I'm not disagreeing with you. I think that the monsters you listed are overpowered, and I'm also guilty of spending a significant amount of time there. I just think that you need to widen your view and lower your expectations a bit. Not everyone in MapleStory plays like an optimist would, which is what you seem to be targeting here.



KoL doesn't really have an end-game (when you have all your skills and all the shinies, which is impossible?) so I wouldn't really be able to dump it into this discussion. KoL is more about tricks to lessening time spent at, or outright skipping zones. Although that's about to change.

Then there are the world events that seem to just stop everyone in their tracks, because there are lots of cool stuff to do and get.

What you've said above really does make me think because you have a point there but MSEA manages to completely ignore this content even when we don't have the aforementioned mobs (I go to those places quite often and it is deserted in my case; my world is also the second largest). With MPSH being nerfed I have to wonder what everyone's doing; I'm merching while trying to perfect a glove so I can't say I've been keeping up.

But yeah, spot on about the end-game definition for KoL. Since there's no actual cap it could be argued that there's just low-level, medium-level, high-level and Xtreme-level content with no discernible end-game in sight.

[street]

Why they are overpopulated is the reason why it's bad. Hacker infestation is an entirely different situation and it involves another thread. By your logic, any map that exists can kick you out because of a hacker: whether or not it is on the left wouldn't even matter.




Party Play is a great system implemented poorly in the presence of potential. Also, parties can exist in other maps without party play but everyone's too strong for it to matter.

Anyway, your mentality here is exactly why the chart is actually a reality.




You're complaining about lengthy training yet you suggest training at lvl140-150 mobs when you're lvl165+? Lol. Well anyway... Anti-Bot Reduction System.




If Maplers don't like grind, then it should be addressed. Funneling content imo isn't a great solution. You're going around in circles: you claim people want to train at these "solutions" so as to avoid grinding yet you claim no one will train there because they're overpopulated. Seriously?




Before NLC, leech was for the wealthy: training yourself was still viable and arguably your only option. The difference today is that leech is close to free while training yourself can be too viable.

The 2nd best monster doesn't have a huge discrepancy with the ones below it like the ones in 1st. I've pretty much identified every single offender and getting rid of them will actually open more content.

-

All you have posted is misguided hypocritical negative criticism that goes around in circles.

You perspective on things is one sided.

I was not going around in circles i was giving different views on what you complain about. A view as a mapler who doesnt train at nlc and one that does train at nlc. I'm not one sided during these pipe dream threads. You say their is no content for anyone to train on at 16x? Before party play areas everyone was at tot then people got tired of that area. I was giving an option for others who are tired of sh which is tot.

This whole thread is regarding and issue that has always been happening in maple. In the past himes would replace the nlc mobs from 75-120 . Himes was the area to train at with a priest. People had choose to train at himes instead of going to ludi with a priest at dual ghost pirates or other areas. Their is always going to be a training area superior to others. If all monsters had the same exp one area still would be superior depending on the map structure and spawn.


What if all monsters had the same exp, map layout, spawn would everyone be happy?

[Curtiss]

You perspective on things is one sided.

I was not going around in circles i was giving different views on what you complain about. A view as a mapler who doesnt train at nlc and one that does train at nlc. I'm not one sided during these pipe dream threads. You say their is no content for anyone to train on at 16x? Before party play areas everyone was at tot then people got tired of that area. I was giving an option for others who are tired of sh which is tot.

This whole thread is regarding and issue that has always been happening in maple. In the past himes would replace the nlc mobs from 75-120 . Himes was the area to train at with a priest. People had choose to train at himes instead of going to ludi with a priest at dual ghost pirates or other areas. Their is always going to be a training area superior to others. If all monsters had the same exp one area still would be superior depending on the map structure and spawn.


What if all monsters had the same exp, map layout, spawn would everyone be happy?

The point has a lot more to do than with training though. I can't comment on training speed since I'm not a GMS player but the basic idea is that people level up way too quickly at the areas to the left to fully enjoy the other contents Maple Story has to offer which does also translate to quests and simply admiring how lovingly rendered the area is. Himes is a semi-valid point but you'd still go slowly enough that you might start thinking "Maybe I'll just go train at somewhere else or explore or something" rather than going elsewhere to train just because you're bored and every fast place is filled to the brim. The former is more akin to reality right now and with this kind of perception there's actually less point to introducing new content as people will look at it a bit and then go back to their usual haunts.

[Bomber]

This is the same as the other thread just with a different title..... Recycled threads are getting old

You know not everyone and their mothers train at the haunted mansion. Your chart is based of when you make a new character so lets look at it from a reality stand point.

Reality (1-110) : When a new class comes out people go train at those other monsters to avoid the over populated maps. No one wants to waste time in a ks war in haunted mansion. Instead they level characters up in other areas that have a better pay out; familiars, recipes, scrolls, no hackers etc. When haunted mansion is infested with hackers maplers are out in the different areas training. They are not waiting for the hacker who has been botting 24/7 to stop so they can have a chance to gain some exp.

Now regarding the party play areas i'm glad that gms kept those areas. I hate training alone its boring and i fall asleep when gaining 10% an hour. With party play areas their is some sort of interaction and it keeps you going.

For 165+ their is always the option of staying in tot and grinding to 200 in that area or going to skelle.

Maplers dont like the grind. I hate grinding for hours, the areas with high exp is what maplers want and nexon saw that. Also in those other maps you will be battling against hackers who are trying to level their character. I dont know if you were around when hackers took over tot and not one map was open for anyone to train in. Maple was at a stand still. In the party play areas hackers cant gain that advantage and they dont take that route. Its the reason why you still see the 16x evan botting at bains

Before nlc it was all about leech. Selling leech at newties, big foot, anego, hh, zakum arms etc. Maple has always been about the quickest and fastest route to level so you cant complain about these options. If none of the monsters in nlc never existed then you would be comparing your chart with the 2nd best monster to train at.

I get more exp getting ksed at jesters and aliens than anything else at it's level (except MAYBE krus/captains)

[zantgx]

Here's a great idea:

NPC: One in every town <Lita Lawless>
Repeatable Quest: Monster Extermination
Objective:
A monster hunter vial will be placed on your character that grants the ability to collect "Monster Goo" from the hunted monster.
Based on your level, you should go "The Map" to hunt "The Monster of your level". (this can be randomly generated, allowing players to venture to different parts w/o KSing)
Once the Vial is filled, return to Lita Lawless
Reward:
Upon return of the monster vial, Lita Lawless will reward 50% - 80% of the Exp required to level up.

Just an idea. There are of course many other ways to encourage players to go to different maps.

[ShadeCaro]

It's very hard to accurately assume most of the Maplers just go to those monsters and grind. As for myself, I grinded on LHC and Stronghold but also did optional Theme Dungeons and Party Quests.

In reality, a lot of MMO's have the same concept of MapleStory. There are many monsters in the game, but only a select few have good EXP or good drops.

[Curtiss]

Here's a great idea:

NPC: One in every town <Lita Lawless>
Repeatable Quest: Monster Extermination
Objective:
A monster hunter vial will be placed on your character that grants the ability to collect "Monster Goo" from the hunted monster.
Based on your level, you should go "The Map" to hunt "The Monster of your level". (this can be randomly generated, allowing players to venture to different parts w/o KSing)
Once the Vial is filled, return to Lita Lawless
Reward:
Upon return of the monster vial, Lita Lawless will reward 50% - 80% of the Exp required to level up.

Just an idea. There are of course many other ways to encourage players to go to different maps.

Maybe tweak the EXP a little since it's still too high, but I can support this. I also forgot to mention a gripe I had with the content on the right: While most of those areas are decent if you know how to train there properly some are all the way to the right on the sliding scale of inefficient so even I would go there just to admire the scenery, SS it and leave and I actually trained to level 70 on Luster Pixies pre-BBP so it was indeed really bad.

[PirateIzzy]

You can tell how much thought were put into Aliens when they don't even have a hit or dying animation.

Seriously. Even ChinaMS put more effort into the aliens than GMS did, considering they have a dying animation there -_-
Edit : Another example is that aliens have the same droplist as Buffies in Ludibrium, minus the etc drops. Proof? Aliens drop Tachions for that Ludibrium quest. The Monster Book too.

[Dark Link]

I'm half and half on this.
I don't go to Skeletons or Scarecrows when leveling new characters, granted I totally forget about them. Instead I go after Mixed Golems and CDs. Then I go to Jesters until 80 and Roids until 90+, but after that and it just falls into place. Aliens -> LHC -> SH -> Done

LHC is a weird scenario for me. It's rather hard for me to find parties at LHC sometimes, so I end up training at Aliens until 125+ or I go to Dual Ghost Pirates until 125+. Once getting to 125+, I do the Neo City questline and farm the bosses there until 130-135+. Granted this is assuming I never find a LHC group in my guild / alliance during all this time.

[Sephie]

Reality: As only street has said, not everyone spends 100% of their time at those monsters.

At low levels, many, many characters simply do their storyline quests. I think you forget that Flaming Golems and Mixed Golems are good experience, as are Cool Jellyfish.

2nd job: The old standbys are still there (CDs, Kitties, Luster Pixies) and are being trained at! I was training my 50 Fighter at Lusters while looking for beauty coupons, and I ran into characters everywhere. Not to mention the theme dungeons: Mushroom Kingdom, Kerning Square and even Chryse are still getting hits. The fact that Xerxes and Pepe can be soloed now helps with this, because that means afforadble, easy-to-get glasses and weapons.

3rd job: Yes. I do admit that I spent quite an amount of time in Aliens. But you know what exists? MONSTER PARK. It's only for 35 levels in 3rd (and I will say that I think Nexon made a mistake making that gap, although the only solution would really be making a fourth monster park portal), but it's a good 35 levels. By farming tickets while grinding you can spend a significant amount of time there. And if you can solo the park well enough, then that gives you a fountain of equipment (that come pre-potentialed 100% of the time) and experience. Not to mention it's a party play zone. Besides that there are also Dual Ghost Pirates and Gigantic Spirit Vikings, Master Death Teddies and Grims, Violent Boars (heck, they made Ellin Forest a theme dungeon), etc. There's still some variation here.

4th job: LHC, sure. Yeah. Neo City says hi? Dragon Turtles and Cornians? LHC is not the best place to be. In fact, if you can't get a party together you might as well not go to LHC at all, which has been the situation for me sometimes. And again, Monster Park exists after 135, which is a great place that has some diversity to it. There are even parks all the way up to 200.

High-end 4th job: I agree with you here. Besides the 165+ parks, bossing and Future Ereve, there really isn't much. I do keep wishing they would make more content for this level range.

tl;dr: I'm not disagreeing with you. I think that the monsters you listed are overpowered, and I'm also guilty of spending a significant amount of time there. I just think that you need to widen your view and lower your expectations a bit. Not everyone in MapleStory plays like an optimist would, which is what you seem to be targeting here.

I'm not saying everyone: I even stated in my post that it's arguable. However, the option is always there. It's always accessible. If Maple was empty and those maps were free, training 2x-3x faster will always remain tempting. By them even existing dissuades players from stepping into different worlds. I'm not saying they're completely forgotten, just that a good majority chooses not to go there and a couple mobs are the likely culprits.

2nd job: again, they get visits, but scarecrows are there. ^Above point. Also you say you found a bunch of people while hunting for coupons... well, Scarecrows don't drop beauty coupons so that's probably why you saw people there.

3rd Job: Monster Park is only really viable if you were funded to some extent... unless you went with a party then yes, it's a great place. But even then, it's not a permanent solution. And even then, it can't even touch Aliens in terms of exp.

Also, by simply listing Ludi mobs and Ellin forest... I've already told you that all of them are inferior to Aliens. And yes, variation does exist but not in that way: the real problem is why a couple maps are causing variation to be obsolete.

Idk, I think my view is justified. People are not guilty for training on these maps and I'm not on a witch hunt to forcibly relocate people at Aliens into Ellin Forest. If I wanted everyone to be an optimist, everyone would have Quest Specialist and a complete monster book. I'm saying that there are better ways to pan out content to have it have a reasonable and fair amount of traffic. By simply showing the path of least resistance isn't enough: there would need to be a HUGE discrepancy between this path and the one under it... which there is. There needs to be better solutions which this thread implores you to discuss about.

-

You perspective on things is one sided.

I was not going around in circles i was giving different views on what you complain about. A view as a mapler who doesnt train at nlc and one that does train at nlc. I'm not one sided during these pipe dream threads. You say their is no content for anyone to train on at 16x? Before party play areas everyone was at tot then people got tired of that area. I was giving an option for others who are tired of sh which is tot.

This whole thread is regarding and issue that has always been happening in maple. In the past himes would replace the nlc mobs from 75-120 . Himes was the area to train at with a priest. People had choose to train at himes instead of going to ludi with a priest at dual ghost pirates or other areas. Their is always going to be a training area superior to others. If all monsters had the same exp one area still would be superior depending on the map structure and spawn.


What if all monsters had the same exp, map layout, spawn would everyone be happy?

Your perspective on things is everywhere.

You're giving me views to complain about but they contradict each other. I pointed out that I didn't even need to argue with you on some points because all you did was correct yourself. A contrary view does at least have to agree with themselves. Also, that is a big problem too: there's nothing after ToT. Just what are you even getting at here?

ToT is not an alternative to SH at the upper levels unless you think training on lvl160 mobs is the way to go at lvl199. Skelegons is not even an alternative to LHC or SH.

In the past, Aliens didn't exist so Himes was a plausible place to train. Also, some classes are simply built to train better in other areas. Ludi maps are HUGE so mobility helps out. Some maps have hard to reach vertical areas so classes with a vertical jump could train there effectively. Some maps have mobs that have certain weaknesses that you can take advantage of like Healing undead or using Ice on Ice weak. These were unique and yes, some places were superior to others, but that's based on perspective. Atm, everyone's perspective is that Aliens is the best way to train until lvl140 which is an undeniable truth because they still exist. There is no viable alternative if mobs 30 levels higher than them give half the amount of exp but hit twice as hard with twice the HP with more time needed to actually get there. In your example with Himes, plausible alternatives existed within that level range but it was not the most superior in everyone's perspective.

And no, you're wrong: MP3 would replace it, not Himes. MP3 is also guilty of funneling people there, but not on the scale aliens have done. If MP3 didn't exist, the gap between Himes and the ones below it like Capt Krus or Ludi is just not there. Never has something like Aliens existed in the history of Maple on this scale.

The entire point is having a viable choice, not having carbon copies of the same map.

[Jamesie]

The entire point is having a viable choice, not having carbon copies of the same map.

Is it about having choice or the illusion of choice? I can guarantee you even if there were no "to the left" (in reference to your images) or MP3, there would still be places that would be the #1 place and everyone would flock there like the left monsters. You can argue that people would have more choices since there are more monsters that give the same amount of EXP, but how many people would train in those places? How many people would go to Big Spiders at 70 instead of Sand Rats? The spawn for Big Spiders is less and the map is bigger compared to Sand Rats. There's not a single class that would benefit more from going to Big Spiders instead of Sand Rats. Aqua Road would be crossed off virtually every training list anyways since water physics in Maple aren't very conducive to moving around easily.

I see your point, but it's too unrealistic. You're looking at Maple (as well as every other game, since virtually every game does this) too ideally when you need to look at it realistically.

[Seanny]

There definitely needs to be some rebalancing to make all content viable. Questing, party play and normal maps should all get similar, satisfying results.

Okay design is just alternatives being there for the player to use, Great game design is when a player feels efficient no matter what choice they make. Which is the point of your OP IF i'm not mistaken.

And i agree.

Funny part is, its not too hard to do in the case of MS, just make sure everything in game has a similar HP:Exp Ratio for the level range. Slightly improve the ratio as monster levels get higher to prevent training map bottlenecking at prime mob maps. Make quest exp rewards equivalent to killing a set number of monsters matching the quest's level. Accounting for how time consuming said quest is. However this actually takes a small amount of time for the devs to... y'know, actually research their game. They might hurt themselves with such a novel concept. A FEW quests i admit, do succeed in being rewarding at least. For sparely populated maps, a 'map exp bonus' to help compensate? This is a pipe dream thread as you said correct?

Party play? If only they could introduce a mechanic that only increases the exp for every member that *attacked* said monster before its killed, that would be fixed instantly.

Yes, i totally agree here. Though i have to point out, as a sort of counter-balance to the XP superiority of the gMS mobs, a lot of the ones listed have VERY bad drops compared to similar leveled mobs by kMS. I'm not saying the difference IS sufficient though, the significance is just massacred by our economy.

[Sephie]

Is it about having choice or the illusion of choice? I can guarantee you even if there were no "to the left" (in reference to your images) or MP3, there would still be places that would be the #1 place and everyone would flock there like the left monsters. You can argue that people would have more choices since there are more monsters that give the same amount of EXP, but how many people would train in those places? How many people would go to Big Spiders at 70 instead of Sand Rats? The spawn for Big Spiders is less and the map is bigger compared to Sand Rats. There's not a single class that would benefit more from going to Big Spiders instead of Sand Rats. Aqua Road would be crossed off virtually every training list anyways since water physics in Maple aren't very conducive to moving around easily.

I see your point, but it's too unrealistic. You're looking at Maple (as well as every other game, since virtually every game does this) too ideally when you need to look at it realistically.

Well, by only getting rid of them would be a great start. I challenge you to name a mob that comes close to Aliens.

A great change for the better would be something like:

-Have more quests but more interesting and more rewarding.
-Changing the spawns of certain maps.
-Adjusting the exp on mobs with a plentiful but weaker spawn.
-Adjusting the exp on mobs with a fewer but stronger spawn.
-More high level areas.

The choice of going to Big Spiders instead of Sand Rats is not as detrimental as choosing anything in Ludibrium compared to Aliens. That is the sad reality.

After some extreme thought, I have realized one single mob that caused almost as much trouble as Aliens: pre-nerf Gallopera. This was after BB and Galloperas were still giving their pre-BB exp meaning it was the best thing to train at until like lvl130. The result is the masses all going to that single map, regardless of they were getting ks'd or not because that was the best exp. Needless to say, this was rebalanced.

I see your point, but it's too unrealistic. You're looking at Maple (as well as every other game, since virtually every game does this) too ideally when you need to look at it realistically.

Realistically, like I've said, all I have shown is the path of least resistance. No one can really deny that it exists because it has existed in Maple History. However, we're at a time where the best path is 2x/3x better than the next best thing compared to a minuscule difference.

I don't really believe you see my point if you think it's unrealistic because the very nature of my post is detailing what is actually happening right now at this moment and, more importantly, at what scale.

When you argue the contrary, think about your own position: if Nexon created a mob that was 3x more exp than every other mob in that level range + it can be 1shot by players at that level range, would you think it's unrealistic that this mob might cause an abnormal amount of traffic? Wouldn't you think this one mob might cause the game to be centered around that one mob? Wouldn't you think it might create a little too much slanting if it was 3x better compared to if it was only 1.5x better?

I suppose your logic would say that it's a-okay because people will always flock to the best mob experience and things wouldn't be different. Nevermind that it's the only mob that does this and nothing in the game comes close to it.

[PirateIzzy]

Honestly, I believe that it's the fault of some of the players. They all complain to Nexon via ticket that training is too slow for level 90-110, and they whined about party play being removed in LKC/Stronghold. As a result, they kept party play and created aliens. As for Haunted House mobs, I can't say for sure.

[Cere]

Make quest exp rewards equivalent to killing a set number of monsters matching the quest's level. Accounting for how time consuming said quest is.

Wow, that reminds me -- I was training some of my spares during the beauty coupon event and I noticed that the Orbis exchange quest's EXP and item rewards haven't been adjusted for the Orbis monsters' new levels at all. It's literally the exact same EXP reward as it was in 2006, and I should know, I did all my grinding at Jr. Cellion back then... which actually makes it two or three levels of failure-to-adjust I just?????

[Jamesie]

When you argue the contrary, think about your own position: if Nexon created a mob that was 3x more exp than every other mob in that level range + it can be 1shot by players at that level range, would you think it's unrealistic that this mob might cause an abnormal amount of traffic? Wouldn't you think this one mob might cause the game to be centered around that one mob? Wouldn't you think it might create a little too much slanting if it was 3x better compared to if it was only 1.5x better?

I suppose your logic would say that it's a-okay because people will always flock to the best mob experience and things wouldn't be different. Nevermind that it's the only mob that does this and nothing in the game comes close to it.

Nope, wouldn't be unrealistic at all. No matter what you do, people will find the easiest and most efficient mob. So you make a some mobs be weaker and then give them less EXP, but then you boost the spawn to compensate? I can almost guarantee that you would find the bulk of trainers at those monsters. So you make some maps more favorable to mobile classes and then make a flatter or smaller map for less mobile classes so it's fair? Virtually everyone will be at the flat map. Remove the party play bonus at LHC? Everyone flocks to Monster Park. Remove the party play bonus there? Everyone flocks to PQs.

I do enjoy how dramatic you make this seem. So a monster gives a significantly larger amount of EXP (while still being easy) compared to other monsters. What's the impact on me? Doesn't bother me at all. Hell, I don't even bother to go to Aliens until 115 since it's not even worth my time to go there any earlier. I'm honestly puzzled by the entire premise of this argument. You're not forced to go to Aliens (and etc.). You're leveling just as fast as you would without Aliens when you don't go to Aliens.

You're really talking up an issue that isn't much of an issue at all. Because as I mentioned earlier, no matter what you do, people will find the most efficient monster to grind on.

EDIT: Your pictures also skew the reality as well. Your pictures imply that by selecting a monster on the left, you are forgoing all those other monsters, implying that all of those other monsters are unreasonable EXP. The reality is that there are only a handful of monsters people train on, even without the monsters on the left.

[Sephie]

Nope, wouldn't be unrealistic at all. No matter what you do, people will find the easiest and most efficient mob. So you make a some mobs be weaker and then give them less EXP, but then you boost the spawn to compensate? I can almost guarantee that you would find the bulk of trainers at those monsters. So you make some maps more favorable to mobile classes and then make a flatter or smaller map for less mobile classes so it's fair? Virtually everyone will be at the flat map. Remove the party play bonus at LHC? Everyone flocks to Monster Park. Remove the party play bonus there? Everyone flocks to PQs.

I do enjoy how dramatic you make this seem. So a monster gives a significantly larger amount of EXP (while still being easy) compared to other monsters. What's the impact on me? Doesn't bother me at all. Hell, I don't even bother to go to Aliens until 115 since it's not even worth my time to go there any earlier. I'm honestly puzzled by the entire premise of this argument. You're not forced to go to Aliens (and etc.). You're leveling just as fast as you would without Aliens when you don't go to Aliens.

You're really talking up an issue that isn't much of an issue at all. Because as I mentioned earlier, no matter what you do, people will find the most efficient monster to grind on.

EDIT: Your pictures also skew the reality as well. Your pictures imply that by selecting a monster on the left, you are forgoing all those other monsters, implying that all of those other monsters are reasonable EXP. The reality is that there are only a handful of monsters people train on, even without the monsters on the left.

You can dissent and there's no problem with that but at least get the argument correct.

The gap between Monster Park and PQs is not as egregious as the gap between Aliens and the monsters listed. Your assumptions faster spawn+low exp = overcrowded don't agree with your views because of party play vs anything, Twisted Jesters vs any lvl70 mob, and Spirit Vikings vs Aliens. Also, Typhon Cliffs/Upper Ascent way back would have been completely empty by your logic yet it was a heavily trained map for mobile classes.

I'm glad you enjoy that sort of thing with that attitude: shows what kind of person you are. Also, I like how nonchalantly you point out these facts and not even care about them. How does this affect you? It's not about you. It's about the game. Seems like you don't care for the game but whatever, you don't have to. If Aliens disappear, the gaps between the rest of the content are actually manageable and alternatives to 2nd best are actually viable.

Path of least resistance and the scale of how much better this path is compared to 2nd/3rd. Same point as above.

There is an issue because of the scale. Again, same point. Seems like you'll continue ignoring a specific point.

Your EDIT: Put very simply, the ones on the left give more exp than the ones on the right. This isn't skewing reality: it's actually based on numbers. This of itself is typical but the main problem is how much greater the gap is between the two sides. And I seriously hope you just made this point wrong:

"Your pictures imply that by selecting a monster on the left, you are forgoing all those other monsters, implying that all of those other monsters are reasonable EXP."

If that is truly what you think, then you really are missing the point.

And even then, if you don't acknowledge it as even somewhat of an issue, it's fine if you believe training 3x longer as an alternative is a-okay. Your opinion is valid.

[Jamesie]

You can dissent and there's no problem with that but at least get the argument correct.

Your argument: Aliens and other monsters detract from other content in the game. Aliens are the most arrant offenders as the scale that they detract from is greater than the other monsters.

I know your argument, stop assuming that I don't. Do you even understand my argument?

The gap between Monster Park and PQs is not as egregious as the gap between Aliens and the monsters listed. Your assumptions faster spawn+low exp = overcrowded don't agree with your views because of party play vs anything, Twisted Jesters vs any lvl70 mob, and Spirit Vikings vs Aliens. Also, Typhon Cliffs/Upper Ascent way back would have been completely empty by your logic yet it was a heavily trained map for mobile classes.

Completely misinterpreting the entire paragraph. That paragraph is showing that no matter what you do, the "better" place detracts from other content (attempting to, at least). Why should scale be important? KFT, Omega Sector, and Aqua Road are as abandoned as all hell. There is virtually nothing you can do to make them more appealing (KFT doesn't have many good monsters (Moon Bunnies and Samiho really) and most KFT maps have poor spawn on top of a bad map; Omega Sector is too far, for the most part even with the transportation changes; water physics kill Aqua Road). So why is it the scale that makes it so bad? So you nix Aliens. People just go back to training at DGPs and MDTs until 120 forgetting about the other maps.

Typhon example is irrelevant because pre-BB most monsters' HP:EXP ratios weren't normalized. If you look at a list of monsters, virtually all monsters within the same level bracket have similar HP:EXP ratios. Pre-BB it was all up in the air (ex: Lucidas compared to other similarly leveled monsters).

I'm glad you enjoy that sort of thing with that attitude: shows what kind of person you are. Also, I like how nonchalantly you point out these facts and not even care about them. How does this affect you? It's not about you. It's about the game. Seems like you don't care for the game but whatever, you don't have to. If Aliens disappear, the gaps between the rest of the content are actually manageable and alternatives to 2nd best are actually viable.

Your entire argument shows the kind of person you are (if we're playing this passive-aggressive ad homenim game): You take small issues that regardless of what you do will forever impact the game, and chalk it up to be some reason why the game is so bad (or something).

So how does removing Aliens make anything in the game better? People would just mosey back to MDTs and DGPs and you'd basically have the same paradigm we're in now. Oh wait.... but to a lesser scale. Which makes it completely okay. .....Right? (Correct answer: No. Assuming you're playing by your own argument, that is.)

Riddle me this: If you train at MDTs instead of Aliens, how are they not viable? Why are they suddenly viable if Aliens are gone? Efficiency is the word you're looking for in that last statement. All monsters in MapleStory are viable for training (they all give exp), however some monsters are more efficient than others.

Your EDIT: Put very simply, the ones on the left give more exp than the ones on the right. This isn't skewing reality: it's actually based on numbers. This of itself is typical but the main problem is how much greater the gap is between the two sides. And I seriously hope you just made this point wrong:

"Your pictures imply that by selecting a monster on the left, you are forgoing all those other monsters, implying that all of those other monsters are reasonable EXP."

If that is truly what you think, then you really are missing the point.

And even then, if you don't acknowledge it as even somewhat of an issue, it's fine if you believe training 3x longer as an alternative is a-okay. Your opinion is valid.

Typos abound. Should have said "unreasonable EXP." By segregating the monsters as you did, you imply that DGP is a monster that can't/shouldn't/wouldn't/whatever be trained on. This is especially true in the first three brackets (Skeletons, Scarecrows, and Jesters) as you can bypass those and level just as fast as someone who went there for those brackets, especially when there's a new class or 2x event.