Apparently, Lotus/Suu is a girl...

[Endgame]

Yeah, you'd think we'd get to know more about the leader of the Black Wings, which has been central to the storylines of Cygnus Knights, Resistance, Mercedes, and Phantom.

Especially since Tempest is supposed to be the ending of the Black Mage storyline, leading to the final battle. Yet, Orchid and Lotus are still out there, and now they just introduced Magnus. (But at least he took out Guwara for us.)

[ShinkuDragon]

wait, i'm confused, according to phantom's quest, lotus is a dude that somehow was torn appart from his body, which orchid takes care of in edelstein, does anything else get shown in the quests past 70?

[aslemn]

wait, i'm confused, according to phantom's quest, lotus is a dude that somehow was torn appart from his body, which orchid takes care of in edelstein, does anything else get shown in the quests past 70?

That's right. He's a dude, Orchid's a girl, they both have a "full power" when together. But we can't be so sure about the gender of that form. Phantom's quest says that Lotus was a "MAN" back then, but Orchid was a woman back then.

This is what i could understand by the quests, and that can be wrong. Lotus is just a spirit, and has a body that is sleeping, he's a young boy now, not a man; on the other side, Orchid was a woman, but it's just a young girl body now. If each one "completes" the other to achieve their full power; it's more likely that they'll remain as two different people in their final form, Lotus would just get his spirit together with his awakened body, and Orchid would get her spirit awakened and applied to her body; transforming them into two different grown up man and woman. :O

Before doing that quest, i was just thinking about their final form being one, with Lotus being just the spirit, and Orchid being the body, but since Lotus already has one, but is just separated from it, we could think about the other situation, with Orchid being the one missing something, not Lotus.

[AzureKite]

That's right. He's a dude, Orchid's a girl, they both have a "full power" when together. But we can't be so sure about the gender of that form. Phantom's quest says that Lotus was a "MAN" back then, but Orchid was a woman back then.

This is what i could understand by the quests, and that can be wrong. Lotus is just a spirit, and has a body that is sleeping, he's a young boy now, not a man; on the other side, Orchid was a woman, but it's just a young girl body now. If each one "completes" the other to achieve their full power; it's more likely that they'll remain as two different people in their final form, Lotus would just get his spirit together with his awakened body, and Orchid would get her spirit awakened and applied to her body; transforming them into two different grown up man and woman. :O

Before doing that quest, i was just thinking about their final form being one, with Lotus being just the spirit, and Orchid being the body, but since Lotus already has one, but is just separated from it, we could think about the other situation, with Orchid being the one missing something, not Lotus.

NO! They will combine and transform! I'm actually thinking they'll stay two separate individuals, but their power will just increase. They seem somewhat immortal, since Orchid/Orca's body never aged since Demon Slayer's tutorial.

[Endgame]

What exactly makes people think Orchid is a little girl?

There isn't any real difference in her body type from all the other females we know to be adults. (Mercedes, Athena, Kyrin, basically everyone except the semi-sexualized Hilla.)

Plus, there'd probably be some comment about the Black Wing leader being "so young" (Although we know the Black Mage granted immortality to all his generals, since they're still alive and well after hundreds of years.), seeing how everyone always brings up how young Cygnus is.

[Corazon]

What exactly makes people think Orchid is a little girl?

There isn't any real difference in her body type from all the other females we know to be adults. (Mercedes, Athena, Kyrin, basically everyone except the semi-sexualized Hilla.)

Plus, there'd probably be some comment about the Black Wing leader being "so young" (Although we know the Black Mage granted immortality to all his generals, since they're still alive and well after hundreds of years.), seeing how everyone always brings up how young Cygnus is.

Mercedes never brings up the subject of Orchid's status as a woman or a girl, despite her being the most ethically appropriate member of the heroes to do so. She is a woman, after all - the "guys" wouldn't dare question her age, and nobody in the Black Wings would bring it up for different reasons altogether (age wouldn't matter, only results).

Mercedes DOES mention her being more powerful, but her use of the word is very ambiguous here. Power doesn't have to be seen - it can be felt. I mean, the Black Mage doesn't LOOK intimidating by himself - but he strikes fear into ANYONE he meets (the exception being the heroes, who are exceptional beings in themselves by Maple World standards).

The reason they bring up Cygnus' age is because of the importance of her position. She IS the Empress of Ereve - and by extension, a good amount of the Maple World. Athena even had to "bargain" for the freedoms of the Explorers, since Cygnus could've easily conscripted us all.

Which also helps explains our involvement (and the level of said involvement, if it even exists at all) in the Second Dark War - we're in this war of our own volition. Cygnus conscripting us would've forced us into this conflict, even if we had no desire to do so.

Cygnus being so young and the fact that everyone harps about it is important because she's essentially the figurepoint of the Forces of Good in MapleStory - if she goes, we're all screwed (the proof is in Arkarium's "Dream World Ereve" - that was basically showing us how important Cygnus is to this whole affair).

They don't ask about Orchid's age because she's not the big honcho in charge - in fact, I'd have to say she's probably the Commander with the least amount of influence in the Black Legion - her Black Wings unit is just one fragment of the Black Mage's entire army.

Old Arcs dying may have forced Hilla out of hiding because of the severity of the situation - he was probably the most loyal of the Black Mage's Generals, and one of the closest, if anything (another theory is Hilla being the Black Mage's consort or love interest - think Cleopatra and Marc Antony).

Orchid and Lotus are not mentioned because they're the Team Rocket of the Black Legion - basically they're the "joke unit" of the group. Although it remains to be seen how much more powerful Orchid and Lotus are when together than, say, Arkarium/Hilla/Von Leon/Magnus.

I'd like to think Guwaru's death was due to him being caught off guard by Magnus - though if Guwaru was a Commander then Magnus would've had to have been seriously strong to end him in one shot (unless Phantom weakened him before the deathblow).

All in all though - I still don't think it changes why Cygnus's age gets questioned and Orchid's doesn't.

[Kavozayo]

Heh. I thought this thread died. I wasn't gonig to come back here but my Kavo senses were tingling...

That's right. He's a dude, Orchid's a girl, they both have a "full power" when together. But we can't be so sure about the gender of that form. Phantom's quest says that Lotus was a "MAN" back then, but Orchid was a woman back then.

Just out of curiosity, what level was that quest? I made my Phantom but I didn't start it yet.

This is what i could understand by the quests, and that can be wrong. Lotus is just a spirit, and has a body that is sleeping, he's a young boy now, not a man; on the other side, Orchid was a woman, but it's just a young girl body now. If each one "completes" the other to achieve their full power; it's more likely that they'll remain as two different people in their final form, Lotus would just get his spirit together with his awakened body, and Orchid would get her spirit awakened and applied to her body; transforming them into two different grown up man and woman. :O

Damn. Depending on each other for puberty. That's like twin telepathy up to eleven.

Before doing that quest, i was just thinking about their final form being one, with Lotus being just the spirit, and Orchid being the body, but since Lotus already has one, but is just separated from it, we could think about the other situation, with Orchid being the one missing something, not Lotus.

Do they ever elaborate on how that happened in the first place? Or can we just assume that he literally got the stuffing beaten out of him?

Mercedes never brings up the subject of Orchid's status as a woman or a girl, despite her being the most ethically appropriate member of the heroes to do so. She is a woman, after all - the "guys" wouldn't dare question her age, and nobody in the Black Wings would bring it up for different reasons altogether (age wouldn't matter, only results).

Mercedes DOES mention her being more powerful, but her use of the word is very ambiguous here. Power doesn't have to be seen - it can be felt. I mean, the Black Mage doesn't LOOK intimidating by himself - but he strikes fear into ANYONE he meets (the exception being the heroes, who are exceptional beings in themselves by Maple World standards).

The reason they bring up Cygnus' age is because of the importance of her position. She IS the Empress of Ereve - and by extension, a good amount of the Maple World. Athena even had to "bargain" for the freedoms of the Explorers, since Cygnus could've easily conscripted us all.

Which also helps explains our involvement (and the level of said involvement, if it even exists at all) in the Second Dark War - we're in this war of our own volition. Cygnus conscripting us would've forced us into this conflict, even if we had no desire to do so.

Cygnus being so young and the fact that everyone harps about it is important because she's essentially the figurepoint of the Forces of Good in MapleStory - if she goes, we're all screwed (the proof is in Arkarium's "Dream World Ereve" - that was basically showing us how important Cygnus is to this whole affair).

They don't ask about Orchid's age because she's not the big honcho in charge - in fact, I'd have to say she's probably the Commander with the least amount of influence in the Black Legion - her Black Wings unit is just one fragment of the Black Mage's entire army.

Old Arcs dying may have forced Hilla out of hiding because of the severity of the situation - he was probably the most loyal of the Black Mage's Generals, and one of the closest, if anything (another theory is Hilla being the Black Mage's consort or love interest - think Cleopatra and Marc Antony).

Orchid and Lotus are not mentioned because they're the Team Rocket of the Black Legion - basically they're the "joke unit" of the group. Although it remains to be seen how much more powerful Orchid and Lotus are when together than, say, Arkarium/Hilla/Von Leon/Magnus.

I'd like to think Guwaru's death was due to him being caught off guard by Magnus - though if Guwaru was a Commander then Magnus would've had to have been seriously strong to end him in one shot (unless Phantom weakened him before the deathblow).

All in all though - I still don't think it changes why Cygnus's age gets questioned and Orchid's doesn't.

It's simple really. The younger you appear, the more people care. Orchid and Lotus look more like young teenagers to me. But that's just me.

[ShinkuDragon]

what if orchid and lotus simply work, as some have suggested, as the "wonder twins" or for a more recent example, like the technician and the weapon in soul eater, alone they each have skills, but together they resonate and their power increases tenfold, while still being two separate entities.

shaman king also applies. their teamwork could also simply be very good.

as for what level the quest is, the 64 one.

[Kavozayo]

what if orchid and lotus simply work, as some have suggested, as the "wonder twins" or for a more recent example, like the technician and the weapon in soul eater, alone they each have skills, but together they resonate and their power increases tenfold, while still being two separate entities.

shaman king also applies. their teamwork could also simply be very good.

as for what level the quest is, the 64 one.

I'm pretty sure good teamwork doesn't affect your physical age, but the other ideas seem plausible.
Even though I had to look up who the hell the Wonder Twins were...
Level 64? Better get to work!

[ShinkuDragon]

I'm pretty sure good teamwork doesn't affect your physical age, but the other ideas seem plausible.
Even though I had to look up who the hell the Wonder Twins were...
Level 64? Better get to work!

young'uns these days

and i don't remember exactly why lotus is youn-looking, could be because he's a soul, maybe he got cursed? dunno

[RedRaven16]

@Kavozayo; I'm relativity sure Loutus has the stuffing beat out of him, because Phantom though he was dead. That would also mean that Phantom was probably the one who did that to Loutus.

[Jettono]

I don't know any boys that wear knee socks and short shorts.

[Endgame]

Yeah, I keep reading that Orchid and/or Lotus led the attack where Aria died. So it would make sense that Phantom would be the one that would try to kill them.

[Kavozayo]

I don't know any boys that wear knee socks and short shorts.

You obviously haven't been to the area I live in then...

@Kavozayo; I'm relativity sure Loutus has the stuffing beat out of him, because Phantom though he was dead. That would also mean that Phantom was probably the one who did that to Loutus.

I still don't get how someone could get their soul beaten out of them. I mean it's their freakin' SOUL. That must take a lot of skill on Phantom's part... (If he did it, that is)

Yeah, I keep reading that Orchid and/or Lotus led the attack where Aria died. So it would make sense that Phantom would be the one that would try to kill them.

Attack? I heard her drink was poisoned by them...

[Corazon]

Attack? I heard her drink was poisoned by them...

In the masterful words of Phantom:

"It's a bit cliched, isn't it?"


That's probably the most stale way to end an Empress, even if it DOES work.

-150 points for unoriginal and cliche homicide methods, Nexon.

Back to the concept desk with your sorry asses.

[Endgame]

Well, seeing how Aria was dead lying against a battered Shinsoo, who tells Phantom that "they were too powerful", yeah. I'd say she died in an attack.

[Corazon]

Well, seeing how Aria was dead lying against a battered Shinsoo, who tells Phantom that "they were too powerful", yeah. I'd say she died in an attack.

Yet they were MIRACULOUSLY able to off her whilst spilling the least amount of blood.

Whoever did her in should be given some serious points for master assassination.

[Kavozayo]

Yet they were MIRACULOUSLY able to off her whilst spilling the least amount of blood.

Whoever did her in should be given some serious points for master assassination.

Could have been a magic attack...
Besides, it's Maplestory. There is no blood. :P

EDIT: I just thought of something what if they really did poison her drink, but Shinsoo tried to help Aria, so the Sadistic Twins beat him (...her?) up for interfering?

[Haseo]

It's a children's car- i mean, video game, you can't have blood in it. That's been a trope since 4kids laid down the framework for this crap.

Anyway, orchid and suu sound like an interesting pair, maybe they'll be the next big boss once cygnus becomes damage whore fodder (like Zakum is now).

[Endgame]

The Black Mage is supposed to be coming out sometime during Tempest.

So Orchid and Lotus will be smaller bosses like Hilla or Von Leon.

Black Mage will be the next boss that it takes 1-2 years to finally take down that requires lots and lots of cubing in order to do enough damage to kill. (Without hacks.) Once they get around to fixing the bugs that is.