The point of the damage cap?

[Kabanaw]

A reasonable cap is always needed for an RPG.

But I would love to see the game reworked so that no one ever hits near 1m each number. There's been huge number creep in this game for years. Whenever there's any imbalance in the game, they upped damage of every class to get closer to the strongest class. Then Big Bang happened, and numbers exploded in size; even though most mob's HP jumped up in turn, it still caused number inflation. There has never been an update scaling back the numbers of every class. And there probably never will be, since the rage over becoming less powerful would be insane.

[inemnitable]

It's turned out fine due to PDRate/MDRate.

The sad thing is that PDRate/MDRate are basically irrelevant for balancing purposes when you consider that well-equipped players will ignore 100% of it anyway. Considering that Empress has to heal herself 40 times and they had to make 15 different forms of Chaos Pink Bean, I'm not sure what definition of "fine" you're using.

[MrTouchnGo]

To you possibly.
A hardcap is necessary otherwise those "OP" classes would be doing a higher output/minute. Yes, hits/second is unfair to you but this can be fixed by removing the potential system or reworking the game to make hitting the cap harder. Hitting the cap is inevitable so I don't understand why it's even retarded.

You're overlooking the fact that a damage cap doesn't even have to be a static, everyone-hits-this cap. It could vary for each skill, weapon speed, class, whatever.

[yo72]

You're overlooking the fact that a damage cap doesn't even have to be a static, everyone-hits-this cap. It could vary for each skill, weapon speed, class, whatever.

You ever play pre-potential? Instead of complaining about the dmg cap, complain about how potential turned an MMORPG into a singleplayer grindfest of bigger numbers.

[KhainiWest]

You ever play pre-potential? Instead of complaining about the dmg cap, complain about how potential turned an MMORPG into a singleplayer grindfest of bigger numbers.

The potential system is retarded, but hackers exploited the f`uck out of it. It's more their fault the game is where it's at, not solely miracle cubes.

[MrTouchnGo]

You ever play pre-potential? Instead of complaining about the dmg cap, complain about how potential turned an MMORPG into a singleplayer grindfest of bigger numbers.

My point: the damage cap is stupid.

I couldn't care less what you think of the potential system.

[yo72]

The potential system is retarded, but hackers exploited the f`uck out of it. It's more their fault the game is where it's at, not solely miracle cubes.

This was before potential locks, imagine if the great Dino made it with 120% boss dmg, sad part is this is easily done with a stack of cubes, imagine this arrow+empress dual bow with similar potential+#1 dojo gloves. I'm not even including nebulites or other gear..... Ya the gear in this game isn't broken

[Jamesie]

Can't an argument easily be made (and I believe Locked has made some sort of it) that the damage cap prevents the game from being too pay-to-win? Yes I understand that you need to pay to get some of the better gear you just can't get in game, but if there were no damage cap, or even if the damage cap was made higher since "cap too ez 2 hit llz." I do agree that some skills should just not have a cap/or have a noticeably higher cap (some skills can be like Pierce, and ultimates can be cap-less). But then next thing you know, one bossing class has the cap on its bossing skill increased and then that's just the newest OP piece of pomegranate to hit the market and then to balance it out, Nexon adds the feature to key bossing skills and then next thing you know we're back to square 1 with a higher cap and then the cycle continues.

I understand that some of you may have paid up the butt to make yourself hit cap with everything (even that crouching basic attack), but then there are some of us who are just never going to hit cap, and increasing the cap just so you can spend more money (and then, ironically, whine about Nexon?) isn't really a thing.

[Kabanaw]

Can't an argument easily be made (and I believe Locked has made some sort of it) that the damage cap prevents the game from being too pay-to-win? Yes I understand that you need to pay to get some of the better gear you just can't get in game, but if there were no damage cap, or even if the damage cap was made higher since "cap too ez 2 hit llz." I do agree that some skills should just not have a cap/or have a noticeably higher cap (some skills can be like Pierce, and ultimates can be cap-less). But then next thing you know, one bossing class has the cap on its bossing skill increased and then that's just the newest OP piece of pomegranate to hit the market and then to balance it out, Nexon adds the feature to key bossing skills and then next thing you know we're back to square 1 with a higher cap and then the cycle continues.

I understand that some of you may have paid up the butt to make yourself hit cap with everything (even that crouching basic attack), but then there are some of us who are just never going to hit cap, and increasing the cap just so you can spend more money (and then, ironically, whine about Nexon?) isn't really a thing.

The problem is more that some classes have more hits per skill use than others. If one class hits 10 times at 100% and another hits 5 times at 200% at the same speed, but both hit the damage cap, then the class that hits 10 times will do double the damage.

[Jamesie]

The problem is more that some classes have more hits per skill use than others. If one class hits 10 times at 100% and another hits 5 times at 200% at the same speed, but both hit the damage cap, then the class that hits 10 times will do double the damage.

Some classes with slower hits achieve the damage cap much sooner than classes with Hurricane skills. I understand your point, that now the late-game dps is all about how many hits your class does, but at the end of the day, which is the better class for someone to play if they're not going to fund much if at all? Phantom or F/P Arch Mage? Mercedes or Hero?

[CarrionCrow]

This was before potential locks, imagine if the great Dino made it with 120% boss dmg, sad part is this is easily done with a stack of cubes, imagine this arrow+empress dual bow with similar potential+#1 dojo gloves. I'm not even including nebulites or other gear..... Ya the gear in this game isn't broken

You can't lock lines on legendary items anyway.

Thing is that most of these items are made by using NX that the hackers have amassed, and it would not have been remotley possible without illegitimate methods. The potential system is broken and needs to be nerfed without any doubts, but as KhainiWest pointed out, the situation would not have been quite this bad this if not for the scumbags.

[MrTouchnGo]

Some classes with slower hits achieve the damage cap much sooner than classes with Hurricane skills. I understand your point, that now the late-game dps is all about how many hits your class does, but at the end of the day, which is the better class for someone to play if they're not going to fund much if at all? Phantom or F/P Arch Mage? Mercedes or Hero?

It's not even hard (relatively speaking) to hit cap with certain classes, and that's the problem. It's pathetic when you're capping on all of your lines and have no room to improve yet you're still getting outdamaged by people who aren't capping but can hit more times. I'm not saying there should be no cap at all, which yo72 and Locked seem to love to miss, I'm just saying the existing cap was a stupid idea and doesn't balance classes properly. Why penalize someone for playing a class they enjoy but hits harder but slower?

[CarrionCrow]

It's not even hard (relatively speaking) to hit cap with certain classes, and that's the problem. It's pathetic when you're capping on all of your lines and have no room to improve yet you're still getting outdamaged by people who aren't capping but can hit more times. I'm not saying there should be no cap at all, which yo72 and Locked seem to love to miss, I'm just saying the existing cap was a stupid idea and doesn't balance classes properly. Why penalize someone for playing a class they enjoy but hits harder but slower?

The damage cap would be fine if they just did some thinking and nerfed potential to cap at reasonable heights. Say 30-50% max somewhere of any option. that would still make people use cubes to hell, and it would open up the usefulness of other lines such as + skill or increased invincibility after hit.

[KhainiWest]

This was before potential locks, imagine if the great Dino made it with 120% boss dmg, sad part is this is easily done with a stack of cubes, imagine this arrow+empress dual bow with similar potential+#1 dojo gloves. I'm not even including nebulites or other gear..... Ya the gear in this game isn't broken

I don't see how that's relevant to my argument. If you re-read my post, I said the potential system is currently broken, it need's touching up. The problem is, the very weapon you show me probably wouldn't be a common piece end game gear if

1) It couldn't be duplicated
2) Mts didn't fund thousands of dollars worth of NX.

The point is, although the potential has a high reward with a high cost, hacker's completely took away the cost for the reward and passed it along. Now that nexon is cleaning up, it's even more expensive as the items become more limited and it becomes even harder to replicate those items.

[EternalRain]

I don't see how that's relevant to my argument. If you re-read my post, I said the potential system is currently broken, it need's touching up. The problem is, the very weapon you show me probably wouldn't be a common piece end game gear if

1) It couldn't be duplicated
2) Mts didn't fund thousands of dollars worth of NX.

The point is, although the potential has a high reward with a high cost, hacker's completely took away the cost for the reward and passed it along. Now that nexon is cleaning up, it's even more expensive as the items become more limited and it becomes even harder to replicate those items.

Your point is pretty hypocritical. You're complaining that the hackers took away the cost of the reward (pot) by duplicating it, and giving it to everyone. Then you go on to complain that Nexon cleaning up makes the items more limited, and it's harder to replicate them? As you already said, "potential has a high reward with a high cost". So if the duped items are more limited, in your earlier perspective, that would be a good thing as everyone's paying loads for that type of gear. But then you somehow implied that having these items be "limited" is a bad thing, as it's "harder to replicate them". Well, obviously. You'll actually have to cube it yourself now, which means you'll pay at least around 5-6x more than the duped cost. And it's not "harder to replicate" when Nexon created those new cubes that increase the chance of making more than 1 Legendary line on a Legendary equip, rather than having 1 Legendary Line with 2 Unique lines.

The point about duping reducing Nexon's profits has always been a moot point. Yes, the MTS did concentrate thousands of dollars of NX into the hands of the dupers, and let them have items for far less than their legitimate cost. But it also did increase the average standard for damage, which is another reason why people actually started buying 38 atk VSS and 301 cravens. My point is, had duping not been there, would the money "lost" from people buying duped equips and not buying their CS equivalents, actually have been spent? If the damage standard wasn't raised that much for the norm, because everyone has the same equips, would there be that much demand to upgrade equips? My thinking is no, Nexon actually made more profit off of everyone buying duped gear, than removing them from the get-go, which is why they stalled on their actions against them until market saturation came into play.

[RedRaven16]

Duping reduced Nexons profits when a duper duped oh say a Unique item with really good pot. Then when the hacker sold the dupes for less then what it would cost in nx to make the item Nexon would be losing profits, and considering most hackers sold these items and wanted moneypack or whatever it was Nexon would lose out on even more money.

[KhainiWest]

Your point is pretty hypocritical. You're complaining that the hackers took away the cost of the reward (pot) by duplicating it, and giving it to everyone. Then you go on to complain that Nexon cleaning up makes the items more limited, and it's harder to replicate them? As you already said, "potential has a high reward with a high cost". So if the duped items are more limited, in your earlier perspective, that would be a good thing as everyone's paying loads for that type of gear. But then you somehow implied that having these items be "limited" is a bad thing, as it's "harder to replicate them". Well, obviously. You'll actually have to cube it yourself now, which means you'll pay at least around 5-6x more than the duped cost. And it's not "harder to replicate" when Nexon created those new cubes that increase the chance of making more than 1 Legendary line on a Legendary equip, rather than having 1 Legendary Line with 2 Unique lines.

You're reading it incorrectly, by having duping in the first place, fixing it actually escalates the problem even more if they don't clean it up properly. Aka leftovers. Nexon intended a high cost for those equip's that are presently on the market, instead hackers made it a standard.

The point about duping reducing Nexon's profits has always been a moot point. Yes, the MTS did concentrate thousands of dollars of NX into the hands of the dupers, and let them have items for far less than their legitimate cost. But it also did increase the average standard for damage, which is another reason why people actually started buying 38 atk VSS and 301 cravens. My point is, had duping not been there, would the money "lost" from people buying duped equips and not buying their CS equivalents, actually have been spent? If the damage standard wasn't raised that much for the norm, because everyone has the same equips, would there be that much demand to upgrade equips? My thinking is no, Nexon actually made more profit off of everyone buying duped gear, than removing them from the get-go, which is why they stalled on their actions against them until market saturation came into play.

Please quote/bold where I said anything about profits? I hear all this talking but nothing substantial is coming out of it besides point's you're making up.

[EternalRain]

You're reading it incorrectly, by having duping in the first place, fixing it actually escalates the problem even more if they don't clean it up properly. Aka leftovers. Nexon intended a high cost for those equip's that are presently on the market, instead hackers made it a standard.

Thank you for restating what I said in the "second paragraph" that you probably skimmed over. Hackers made it standard because they duped them, as I said right here "But it also did increase the average standard for damage". How is the problem escalated if Nexon leaves a few leftovers behind but removes mostly everything? A few people have the gear. Big deal. The "average standard for damage" is now lowered. Yes, in your elite circle of friends, maybe a lot of people still have the gear, so it might seem that the "average damage standard" is much higher than the pre-dupe standard. However, average as in, number of hacked equips/number of players, or total "damage/total players, removing most of them got the average much closer to "pre-dupe" standards so everything is much better.

Yes, there are quite a few equips on the market. But haven't you seen that their prices are rising? That's what Nexon wanted anyway - if the duped item's price is getting closer to how much it would cost to legitimately make it, that's good for the game.

[MrTouchnGo]

Thank you for restating what I said in the "second paragraph" that you probably skimmed over. Hackers made it standard because they duped them, as I said right here "But it also did increase the average standard for damage". How is the problem escalated if Nexon leaves a few leftovers behind but removes mostly everything? A few people have the gear. Big deal. The "average standard for damage" is now lowered. Yes, in your elite circle of friends, maybe a lot of people still have the gear, so it might seem that the "average damage standard" is much higher than the pre-dupe standard. However, average as in, number of hacked equips/number of players, or total "damage/total players, removing most of them got the average much closer to "pre-dupe" standards so everything is much better.

Yes, there are quite a few equips on the market. But haven't you seen that their prices are rising? That's what Nexon wanted anyway - if the duped item's price is getting closer to how much it would cost to legitimately make it, that's good for the game.

You're going on and on about the average damage standard when it really has no relevance to his original post that was about hackers exploiting the potential system.

[KhainiWest]

How is the problem escalated if Nexon leaves a few leftovers behind but removes mostly everything? A few people have the gear. Big deal. The "average standard for damage" is now lowered. Yes, in your elite circle of friends, maybe a lot of people still have the gear, so it might seem that the "average damage standard" is much higher than the pre-dupe standard. However, average as in, number of hacked equips/number of players, or total "damage/total players, removing most of them got the average much closer to "pre-dupe" standards so everything is much better.

I know you have problems seeing past your condescending attitude but let me elaborate why it's still a problem. You have an entire generation of players with gear that is unmatched by legitimate means. It's as the phrase goes, the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. The demand of these items will only increase, do you know why? Because you can't replicate it. And it will be years before that gear is overlapped by something greater.

Another FYI is it's retarded to contain everyone who plays maplestory as a legitimate average of damage. When it get's down to it's a low ratio of who actually participates to end game content. Also thinking about the long term effect's, which I'm sure you have no idea considering you probably have been playing since like 08, is that this gear becomes priceless, until something completely over takes it, which means a very large method of making bank, so they still benefit from those exploits.

This is all assuming nexon can ever remove all equipment. Things like attack masks/vss, will always be in the game because there's really no proof at this point if it's plausible or not, including scrolls to scroll it. Maplestory can attempt to heal itself again, but frankly it just makes it even more inprobable that a new generation will ever get accomplish things an entire illegit generation has.

Also to elaborate, I did skim your post, as soon as I saw you suggesting that nexon's business model was actually adapted to benefit off the hacker's general business, I just saw all your credibility go down the drain.