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  1. Default Improving PVP in MapleStory


    We all know Nexon Korea took PVP out of KMS some time ago, and that NexAn might be doing the same in a close time. Now, many of you might believe that PVP is a failure in this game and that it shouldn't stay while others will cry tears the day it's taken away.

    The purpose of this thread is to throw your opinions and ideas about what should be done to MapleStory's Superfight (PVP lols) to make it a success or something more enjoyable at the very least.

    I will start with some off my mind that I thought while farming emblems. No specific order:

    1 - Skill cooldowns It freaking suck that players can bypass cooldowns by just diying. Don't you hate it when a mage does this: jump down / use ultimate/ die / spawn up / repeat? Now that today everyone and their mother has an ultimate it sure takes a lot of gameplay out of PVP, making it into a war of who is killed faster to spawn ultimates.

    2 - Add cooldowns to mobility skills: As a warrior. I'd hate it when a mage kept warpping around me using teleport (specially battlemages while using finishing bl0w+ the finisher). I'm not saying give them a 5 seconds cooldown but one to prevent them from just spamming them. Now that even warriors have mobility skills, it might be benefical to everyone.

    3 - Curses / abnormal statuses: First of all, take those riddle boxes out of the arenas, or at least make them optional somehow. I'd seriously hate it when I was in a 1 on 1 battle or catched an opponent off guard and right before dealing the last blow some pineappleer would cast a freaking curse on me from nowhere. This also applies for statuses from skills, (wtp with teleport mastery keeping it's stunning in PVP? that's broken) <.<

    4 - HP: Well this is more of a problem in GMS than it is in KMS due to NexAn's concept of "fixing" PVP, but why should a character die multiple times and keep reviving over and over? Give them all a huge lot of HP. It might be unconvenient for characters with already high HP and overpowered for those with low HP and high damage/fast skills but I'm sure that can be balanced out. At the very least create a survival PVP mode in which the last man standing wins.

    5 - Make diying matter: It's kind of boring when diying in PVP is actually better than staying alive and wouldn't matter other than for team battle. Maybe a buff that grows stronger the longer you stay alive would work to encourage players to try to survive the longest they can.

    6 - Allow characters to fight friends at will. That simple. Allow players to create rooms and duel eatch other without having to deal with random people. This could have all sorts of uses in the game from mere friends fighting for fun to guilds solving affairs through PVP, even tournaments could be born out of this.

    Well these are the only ones I can think of right now (I realize many of my complaints about PVP revolve around mages but they can also be applied to other jobs).

    I will post again here if I think of something else but, It's up to you now, what do you consider should be added/taken out/changed from PVP to make it good?.

  2. Orbital Bee Cannon Straight Male
    IGN: Haséo
    Server: Korgath
    Level: 110
    Job: Rogue
    Guild: Re Lapse
    Alliance: World of Warcraft
    Colorado

    Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    7 - Balance "Battle Attack" and/or PvP Gear. Really, who's bright idea was it to introduce an "Attack" boost for PvP that gives PERCENTAGE DAMAGE?

  3. Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    1) Allow players to create rooms
    2) Let us choose items on/off and what stage
    3) Remove BATT entirely.
    4) Balance the stupid game.
    5) Allow us to play cross server in a public PvP hub.
    6) Projectiles should actually aim/home in as they should in PvE; being 1cm off the ground shouldn't let you dodge projectiles. Melee attacks have a STUPIDLY high vertical reach that should be reduced. This crap is a perfect example of lolPvP logic fail.
    7) Fix the lazy coding that causes massive lag on Final Attack, Buccaneer's Energy Charge, Aran's Body Pressure, and Resistance's Hidden Potential skill.

  4. Orbital Bee Cannon Straight Male
    IGN: Haséo
    Server: Korgath
    Level: 110
    Job: Rogue
    Guild: Re Lapse
    Alliance: World of Warcraft
    Colorado

    Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    I feel sorry for you, because you created that ridiculously stupid chart...
    "Not Biased at all" my ass.

  5. Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    Feel free to dispute it. Curious to see what your opinions are on it (other than "omg stupid, I feel sorry for you").

    Also keep in mind this is in the context of GMS server lag; in a lagless game, the "awful" category doesn't exist.

  6. Orbital Bee Cannon Straight Male
    IGN: Haséo
    Server: Korgath
    Level: 110
    Job: Rogue
    Guild: Re Lapse
    Alliance: World of Warcraft
    Colorado

    Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    Well your chart is pretty much puts 85% of the classes in the "OMG so OP" category, 5% in "Balanced" and 10% in "Worthless".

    if you want me to lay it out:
    "You're OP"
    DS, Merc, Cannoneer, BaM, Mech, Aran, Evan, Pally, DrK, FP, IL, Bish, BM, MM, WH

    "Balanced"
    Hero, Shad, NL, Sair

    "You Suck"
    Sair, Bucc, BM, MM, WH

    Yes, I know I'm not following the chart verbatim, but it only proves how biased it is.

  7. Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    How the pineapple do you have the same class in multiple categories?

  8. Orbital Bee Cannon Straight Male
    IGN: Haséo
    Server: Korgath
    Level: 110
    Job: Rogue
    Guild: Re Lapse
    Alliance: World of Warcraft
    Colorado

    Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    Because, according to the chart, if you use DEX as a main stat, you suck, but you if were revamped recently, you're OP. It's a contradictory statement...

    Or if you want to go the way of the biased statement

    Non-Legend Melee = OP
    Legend = OP
    Non-Legend Ranged = Worthless
    Nothing = Balanced

  9. Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    I'm an avid PvPer and top 5 in my server. I have much experience with almost every class (all the warriors, mechanic, BaM, Bishop, Shadower, Buccaneer, and few more I'm forgetting) and I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about. Also, I was invited to the Scania hosted all-worlds PvP tournament if that means anything to you. My paladin has legitimately lost a match to only 3 people, all of whom were not any of the "OP" classes I've listed. I even made a Paladin PvP guide too (but it's somewhat outdated). But enough with the ego-flaunting and credential-spam.

    -

    The chart is just a satirical representation of the current metagame... so no doubt dissenters will get all up in arms about the chart and defending their class (just look at the comments). But I can assure you there's a legitimate reason for each bubble.

    I've already talked this over with other top PvPers in other worlds and the one and only thing I would change is putting Marksman in balanced. Also, the way the revamp changes the 3 Explorer classes will need time to judge.

    Right now it's super late and I'm tired; if you don't agree with a bubble, I'll give you a wall-of-text that explains the reasoning behind it tomorrow.

    But then again, I'm fine with staying on topic lol.


    EDIT: Can you guys even follow a flow chart? It's a process of elimination: 1 class can only end up in 1 category...


    EDIT2: Also this is taking into account of GMS server lag; with no lag at all (and I mean zero lag, not just "good" but 100mb/s Korean-grade connection lagless) there would only be "OP" and "Balanced".

  10. Orbital Bee Cannon Straight Male
    IGN: Haséo
    Server: Korgath
    Level: 110
    Job: Rogue
    Guild: Re Lapse
    Alliance: World of Warcraft
    Colorado

    Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    Now this is hilarious, considering you even made a post in your very own topic stating:
    So why should we follow you and no one else? Just because you're "Top 5 in Broa"?

    You should still make it less biased by making the "Are you a Melee Class" -> "No" and "DEX as Primary?" options still go to "Were you revamped?".
    You make it sound like even if you were revamped to do a bazillion damage to 15 people, so as long as you use "DEX" as a primary stat, you still suck.

    What if, you changed up the order a bit?
    What if you started with "Legends Class?" -> "No" -> "Were you Revamped?", and then go from there?

  11. Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    I think legitimate specific credentials and evidence of active current participation with top-play PvP is better than "lol I won 5 matches in a row with 1.6k points". Love that you're reading the thread (too bad it's not the right context).

    You don't have to follow me; I never said my chart was the undying truth to end all debates. But I would say it's safer to follow me than a random lvl12x Basiler who spews nonsense with no backing at all.

    Since you were reading the thread, I hope you've had some insight on what I had to say on some classes unless you were specifically looking for small insignicant fallacies (if any) in my posts.

    It looks biased because it's satire/comedy. However, it's all based on established trends, skill tables, and what is unanimously considered true. If Evans have anything to say about it, then Yes: if you were revamped you'll do a bazillion damage to 7 people (if you've honestly never witness what a revamped Evan could do, you don't exactly have any basis on having a legitimate opinion on PvP...). Arans are only the lesser side but they still have the best Ultimate in the game and they still have the #1 highest DPS against a mob. Resistance is revamped too but half of them are already established to be OP and the other half is lost early in the chart because they use DEX.

    I'll copy-paste what I have to say on DEX-based classes.

    This chart is in accordance to GMS server lag; in a lagless game, there would only be 2 categories: OP and Balanced.

    The reason why Mages, Shadowers, and Warriors are so good isn't because they're OP: it's because they work as intended. Server lag does little to a mage, warrior, or Shadower because they shoot in bursts with a high number of hits which is negligible with lag. DEX based classes unfortunately have the tendency to have skills that hit at a high rate but is severely hindered by lag: this is why BMs and WHs suck so much.

    For example, if a class fires 10 times a second and another class deals the same damage but at 5 hits a second, it would generally be balanced. Now look at the same scenario but the lag between attacks doubled: the class that fires 10 times a second can only hit 5 times a second now, the class that hit 5 times a second will still shoot at 5 times a second because the lag and their cooldown between attacks mixes well. This makes the 2nd class have a huge advantage by just simply working as intended.

    MMs are actually quite balanced because they share the same characteristics as the Warriors. Imho, I actually would add another bubble to include MMs because they don't suffer the effects of lag as BMs do.


    Siege-Mode, Wild Arrow Blast, Hurricane, etc happens to be the main attack of most DEX-based classes except Marksman so they tend to do bad. Yes, you can do well without it but you're playing handicapped. Mercedes would be complete awful if they didn't have Unicorn and Leaf Tornado (but imagine if they had a working Ishtar...). Also, most projectile-based classes have a problem with aiming vertically as well since their attacks don't curve upwards; on the flipside, melee classes have their vertical range nearly doubled to the point where the animation doesn't make any sense (you can use a Paladin's Blast to hit platforms under Nihal and Gold Richie's).

    Well I'm heading to bed. I'll be looking forward to what's here in the morning (hopefully something that's on topic).

    EDIT: Btw, the revamp didn't help the DEX based classes at all (at least Mechs got unlimited siege... right?), hence why they don't get a chance to get to the "Have you been revamped recently?" bubble.

    BaMs and Evans on the otherhand...

  12. Orbital Bee Cannon Straight Male
    IGN: Haséo
    Server: Korgath
    Level: 110
    Job: Rogue
    Guild: Re Lapse
    Alliance: World of Warcraft
    Colorado

    Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    No no, I read it all and I agree with majority of it. The only problem I have, is the chart, but you said it's supposed to be a "Comical" thing and I took it too seriously, so...yeah.

    Unfortunately, I can't give my 2 cents on revamped Evans, because the "Top Evan" PvPers in Khaini are hackers.
    The only time I've gone against "Normal" Evans was in the 70+ section, and that's a bad place to give judgment / opinion on.

    I'm interested in why you said Aran have the "Best Ultimate". I would have thought Demon Slayer's "Demon Cry" "Ultimate" would be the best due to the retardedness of "Let's make up to 15 people have 100% miss rate for 15 seconds.", granted I know Hero's Will and the "All Cure" Heart can rid it, but it still gives Demon Slayers the "Insult To Injury" buff.

    I know it's not their "Main Attack", but what about "Multiple Target" skills?
    I have no idea what "Multi-hit" skills Mech have, other than "Punch Launcher" and I have no idea if it has a CD in PvP.
    BM can spam "Ultimate Inferno" and WH can spam "Ricochet". Yes, they're not the best skills, but it's still something.

    PvP seems to boil down to who can hit the most targets with powerful attacks.
    All 3 Legend Classes can hit 3+ people with ease, which is also why they're considered "Ridiculous".

  13. Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    Nexon can't even balance PvE you think they can even touch PvP?

  14. Donator Straight Female
    IGN: icephoenix21
    Server: Scania
    Level: 212
    Job: Bishop
    Guild: DremithCross
    Alliance: Evolution
    Farm: IcePhoenix
    canada

    Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    You can't tell me that her chart isn't somewhat accurate, aside from archers, but it's pretty much a give-in that archers suck overall in pvp.

    That aside, any legend class, as well as now Evans are WAY op in pvp. I can handle demonslayers fine, but Merc I usually have to end up dooming (which I hate doing in pvp, I feel its really cheap), and I usually just tend to avoid CS for counter's sake.

    However I know Venally (sair) and WhitexRice65 (bucc) are pretty damn good.

  15. Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    I can't sleep... I don't want to take Nyquil <_<.

    When Nexon said "changes were not applied in PvP", they meant the % values of them didn't change. However, how skills were performed actually did change. Evan's breath attacks had a high damage % but had a charge time to compensate for it; after the revamp, charge up time is gone = full % instantly on entire mobs. Chaos and hilarity ensues. BaMs are in the same boat: their auras didn't change in value but you can still stack them; this meant BaMs will be terrorizing players with the full force of 3 Auras. Mechs got pseudo-unlimited siege and WHs as far as I know didn't get any skill revamps.


    Combo Tempest has the range of Nihal Desert with 1300% to 15 targets. This means in some maps, there's absolutely no way you can avoid a freaking 1300% ultimate (using Combo Tempest in Nihal Desert where the trampoline is will hit the entire map >:/). Demon Cry I would consider the 2nd best right under Arans because although it has a stupid debuff that makes everyone miss 90% of the time, it's very short in range (in respect to Combo Tempest), consumes half your DF, and isn't as strong.

    Mechs are pretty much forced to use Tank mode which means they only have normal attack, siege mode, and Laser Blast. Laser Blast has a 5 second cooldown so most of your attacking comes from tank missle mode normal attack and occasional siege. Ultimate is turned off in PvP.
    BMs have Rain and Inferno but without Hurricane their 1v1 is just awful. Taking away or nerfing Hurricane is like nerfing a MM's Ultimate Strafe. ;/ Both of them can do without but why play a class that's handicapped when you can a play a class that isn't?
    WHs have a great blind/stun (though it's like 1 second), an Ultimate (one of the few DEX-based classes with an ultimate), and their Jaguar mobbing attack. They have the benefit of mobile Hurricane but how well it's used depends on server lag. IIRC, they don't have a huge passive dodge like other Archers or Mercs and it doesn't help that they're a huge target. They do have 105% stance lol...

    Not always, but it's good to have. DrKs are killing machines but I would still call them as balanced as Bishops who tickle people to death with their attacks.

    All the classes before Legend actually had weaknesses to justify their strengths; the Legends are just blatantly good in every area with no weaknesses that justifies their strength.

    -

    I'm really waiting what the revamps will do: warriors will get Soul RushSlipstream, Mages get a bunch of damage buffs, and UA Archers will get a Irena's Wind Piercing that drains a loooooot of HP apparently :v.





    EDIT: I'm tired... I can't think straight...

    Doom just happens to be the single most devastating debuff in the entire game with 90% success, 30 second cooldown, and no cure other than stage hazards. That said, it's not unethical to use to win; it's unethical to harass players for the sake of harassing them.

    Sairs have to deal with the same troubles other DEX classes suffer except they have no dodge, guard, or mobility in their ship. The only thing that saves them is an Ultimate and an okay summon...

    Buccaneers suffer a huge handicap (here's a direct copy/paste):

    Buccaneers have the qualities of an incredible PvPer: they have a magnet (Snatch) to catch players, they have a great 1v1 skill, their mob skill Dragon Strike (despite what you say about the range) is twice the range as Dark Impale with more vertical range than it too, they have an invincibility skill on hand (barrel), they have a heal skill, they get stronger the better they do similar to Heroes (but unlike Heroes they can fight with full force right out of spawn), they need very little buffs (only need Booster and Transform isn't dispellable), they have a great rush skill, and BSB is the best mob controlling skill in the game which forces knockback with no cooldown. Snatch -> Demolition work so well together because their cooldowns actually cover the each other so that they can actually lock people in an inescapable death lock.; I would say they're better 1v1ers than DBs!

    So why does this amazing class suck so much? It's because of touch damage. Buccaneers have a skill called Energy Charge which, when at 100% energy (from attacking players), they form a bubble that gives them BATT, DEF, and the ability to deal damage on contact. However, the fact that they attack people by touching them gives them severe lag and prevents them from taking action every 4-5 seconds. This is the result of severe server lag and poor coding on Nexon that didn't anticipate people having slow internet (because people in Korea have like... 100mb/s internet by default). Unlike summons which act independently from you the player, touch damage is like having your character involuntarily attacking thin air which doesn't let you take action until the attack cycle is complete (like... every 4 seconds).

    Arans have the skill called Body Pressure which they never use. Why? Because it gives them the ability to do touch damage ie what makes Buccaneers bad. Resistance's hidden potential skill (the light that activates when you're at 20% HP) gives them status immunity and touch damage; yeah, same thing here... when a resistance class is almost dead, they actually can't do much because of the lag.


    If your friend does well, he either lives next to Nexon or is filled to the brim with BATT to get a respectable score. At 0 energy, Buccs are definitely a force to be aware of though.

  16. Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    Weird... double post...

  17. Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    PvP in maplestory will remain crappy untill they change pvp into the way hon/dota 2/LoL servers are ran and remove the stupid 20 sec untouchable frames from battle mages everytime they die.

  18. Interdimensional Rift Straight Male
    IGN: thewatch3r
    Server: Khaini
    Level: 204
    Job: Lolmaster
    Guild: Contagious
    usa

    Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    Ahaha I found that chart funny and I really didn't expect to see a debate over it's accuracy, although this was an interesting read.

    I do agree that BMs tend to suck at PvP although I have seen a few skilled BMs do well. Yes, hurricane is completely useless in PvP and although arrow rain and inferno are useful, inferno has s'hit range because of its splash effect (although it can be helpful in tight groups). It really is a shame that Nexon decided to shaft us BMs so hard with hurricane being so useless, but whatever, at this point I am very used to being screwed most of the time.

    I see PvP as a hopeless cause it sucked up time that could've been spent on making/implementing on other content. I don't care whether they remove it or not because I am fine using either VL gear or waiting for Empress to be killable for 140 stuff.

  19. Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    You niggahs derrailing my thread for that chart.

    I just have to say regarding that chart. Arans might be top PVP tier in pvp with 0 lag, but the second a lag spike hits them they become useless. Since triple/full/over swing is 1 combo of 3 different attacks when lag hits, it gets in between each part of the combo and can even block the next part from happening (if you take too long to use the second swing after the first swing you will end up doing another first swing).

    Also 4th job WillHunters might suck but they are pretty good in 2nd and 3rd job (specially for jaguar roar and Ricochette and their mobility).

    The balance between classes in PVP changes from 3rd job to 4th job. It actually would seem to me that 3rd job PVP is more balanced than 4th job one.

    The time they don't spend on PVP will be spent on more class revamps or new jobs anyway

  20. Donator Straight Female
    IGN: icephoenix21
    Server: Scania
    Level: 212
    Job: Bishop
    Guild: DremithCross
    Alliance: Evolution
    Farm: IcePhoenix
    canada

    Default Re: Improving PVP in MapleStory


    Have you played as a bishop in 70+ pvp? Didn't think so, otherwise you wouldn't have said that.

    That being said, as for improvements, I really wish you could create your own rooms...or even implement it with expedition so that only those within the expedition can enter.
    Would make KlZO's tournament so much easier to organize.

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