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  1. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    I don't quite follow your logic. Of course Shadow Fiend and Fizz aren't alike in their play style, however they are high risk, high skill, high reward.

    A bad start for Fizz is crippling, since by nature he's an assassin. Assassins need to keep up and excel in experience and gold to be able to do enough damage to destroy people. Fizz's abilities to perform in this role are varied, and it depends heavily on you flying around with E later in the game. And Fizz has deficiencies as an assassin. He has very bad options for sustain. However, his early game is where he gets his headstart, since his passive allows him to ignore minions somewhat, and his W absolutely destroys people in a land of lvl 1 auto-attacks.

    I don't think you citing that last bit of information works to your advantage. If anything, you're more arguing for a handicapped champion that otherwise fulfills your qualifications. Play Evelynn if you want to. She gets stopped by 400 gold, snowballs off of kills/assists (ult), and she's squishy as hell, making positioning and opening with her a vital skill.

    Fizz is high risk in that you have to be in melee range to deal damage while not having the protection of a typical melee champion. Therefore, he has many counters (Easy to stop). Since he's also squishy by nature, relying on maneuvers to "mitigate" damage, he can die really fast if things go wrong. Usually with assassins, if you don't maintain your advantage, the other team is still able to win the game, and late game is generally not where you want to be as an assassin in games with competent players (easy to knock off course). Easy to gank... well, not really xD I suppose you could bait him though.

    Fizz is high skill, mostly in his E. It's not quite long range enough to allow Fizz to punish casters if they attempt to throw spells at him. On the flip side of the coin, if you are close range, it tends to get very difficult to react in time when they decide to throw spells at you, primarily skillshots. Skillshots tend to have CC, and stuff like Morgana's Dark Binding can ruin you day easily. A true master can react and pole at point-blank range. Fizz's Q also supplements his title of associate juke master.

    Fizz is high reward. Assuming your opponents are the dimwits you painted them as, Fizz can easily get to the point where he can pick off the other team's carries. Even if they aren't, you just feel guuud outplaying them, since some of what he can do is a direct counter-response to what they do, more so than "oh I move a few feet to dodge your fireball".

    A quick question: do you like playing Shadow Fiend as it is? What about if item counters were nonexistant/less egregious to him?

  2. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    Anything that relies that much on expendable stacks to function probably wouldn't be brought to LoL. Anything that gives additional skills without a visual indicator requires too much "burden of knowledge", I think.

  3. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    That's not what i meant, but fizz to me isn't high risk compared to a SF, fizz has a slow and knockup and abilities that allow himself to be positioned and escape.
    Shadow fiend has nothing of that sorts ontop of being super squishy, ganking him with smoke(the item that changed how effective SF is) will cripple him to a point where his BKB(Core item on SF) will be so late that he wont make the difference he's meant to make.

    Of course, that's the nature of an 'assasin'.

    And shadow fiend doesn't have anything earlygame, he has problems all along the game until he has a BKB. His base attack damage is so bad that you can out-deny a SF easily until level 4+ unless he is using all his mana on razing, thus pushing his lane and making him even more gankable. Running a duo mid also completely shuts him down. He also has a low attack range letting melee heroes lane against him without having any problems.

    I don't want a handicapped champion. Far from it.
    It's incredibly hard to explain. And evelyn has nothing of what i am personally looking for.
    Getting an almost 90% secured kill on SF costs 100 gold.

    And i see what you're trying to say, i just don't see fizz as quite as high-risk, he has the same problems that a lot of other champions have.

    And coming from DotA fizz to me is a lot like tiny in terms of risk vs skill vs reward.
    Tiny has the same problems fizz does and the same role early on.


    Well, i know that fizz can be high reward, but for example, if a shadow fiend finishes a BKB and boots by 15 minutes he can force and win almost any teamfight against most lineups. But getting a 15 minute BKB is almost unheard of and if you don't have it by 20 minutes it's getting close to too late for you.

    I love shadow fiend because pubs do not use his counter.
    If i were to play in public games where people used smoke often, no i wouldn't find him fun(That came out wrong, i would find him fun but i wouldn't find the constant being shut down fun, and since pubs generally lack coordination i couldn't rely on a team which i would be able to rely on when playing with friends, thus still making him incredibly fun to play), getting shut down would be too easy and is not what i'm looking for and even though i am fairly decent with SF, i am not at a level where smoke ganks wont destroy me.
    If smoke didn't exist he'd return to his old status and be an incredibly boss semi carry whom is incredibly hard to stop.
    Smoke gives your team a special kind of AOE invis that disappears if you get in range of a hero or tower, this is to stop wards from keeping anyone safe. The chinese SFs were pretty much ungankeable and were so hard to stop because of how easy they are to farm with and how crazy mid-game damage they have.(if his ult hits point-black it can 1HKO anyone from 20 to 40 minutes into the game.)

    A shadow fiend needs to know exactly how his razes work and exactly what the range is. They're visually misleading and don't quite show the range they have, knowing that the first raze can hit a small area behind you, for example is something most people won't know.
    Spoiler


    But i just used SF as an example, though, it's not about him specifically, he's just the strongest midgame carry there is in DotA due to his skills(Imagine a champion that has the passive of BT with a cap of maybe 100 damage ontop of minus armor aura and a lot of massive AOE burst. But due to how easy he is to shut down, you rarely see him.

    The kind of 'high skillcap' i was looking for was something invoker-ish, where a player needs to know the cooldown of all 9 side-spells ontop of what order to invoke them in and what combination they require and what level his quas, wex, exort is to know how effective the different spells are.

    Didn't mean to make it into a SF vs fizz.
    I do think this thread is heading into a bit off-topic, which i apologize for. :)

  4. Orbital Bee Cannon Straight Male
    IGN: Musiphe
    Server: Reboot
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    Colorado

    Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    Didn't realize the green dots had a countdown for how long they're down...

  5. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    I'll be honest, what this looks like mostly is you fanboying SF because you play it vice actually listening to the points other people are making. In terms of LoL, Fizz is about as close to a high risk champion as you're going to see. Orianna would be a safer high skill champion with lower payoffs. LoL just doesn't really have a suitable spot for a pure risk character right now - Master Yi might qualify, I guess, but he's not really high-skill.

  6. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    I am not trying to fanboy SF, i merely used him as an example. I did listen to the points kajiti brought up but i have played fizz and he doesn't give me the kind of champion i am looking for, but as you said, i don't think there is a suitable spot for such a champion.
    Sorry if that's what it looked like.
    I just wanted a champion that would give me the same feel/satisfaction :P

  7. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    No worries. Fanboying is a harsh word for it, I did the same thing with the classes I played in DFO. I really loved my Launcher and Bender, so I'd take every opportunity I could to discuss their skills as they relate to other classes.

    OT: A more accurate K/D display that shows who has killed you and how many times/who you've killed and how many times.

  8. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    I don't like high risk high reward champions because its the reason people hide behind when the character in question comes into discussion of balance issues.

    I think what i'd like to see the most in league right now is for the balance team to make as many champs tournament viable as possible. Wouldn't it be cool to see an oddball pick like Heimer in a tournament?

  9. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?



    Heimer's main issue that I know of is that he pushes so hard, which in the current setup is bad. His turrets also award gold for being killed :/

    He'd be really good on a team that was able to capitalize on early tower kills, but I don't know of anyone trying things like that right now competitively.

  10. Water

    IGN: SolicShooter, SolicSage
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    netherlands

    Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    Katarina? She's basically exactly how you describe. For the rest basically every glass cannon champ. I think LoL has enough of these incentives. A small example is lux' passive. She's incredibly safe if you just cast spells but popping her passive has some risk with a reward attached to it.

  11. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    A simple change I'd like is some sort of button or light on every skill to toggle smart cast on and off.

  12. Certified Pimento Bi Male
    IGN: xxxxFenixR
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    venezuela

    Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    This, is annoying that Karthus and Cassio Q are both Smart Cast (I have a qwer for smart, asdf for dumb cast), and i hate the Smart Cast "Range Indicator", it really makes me feel a few microsec slow.

    Also making aram a official game mode or at least a 1 lane map for it. Oh and the second 5vs5 classic map they never bothered to release.

  13. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    It's cool. I've never played DotA, but having extra closure doesn't hurt. =P

    Units spawned from champions typically give a substandard gold award. Off the top of my head: Malz Voidlings, Morde ghost, Annie's Tibbers (lol Smite), Wukong's duplicate, Le Blanc's illusion, Yorick ult, and in the past, Shaco's JitBs (not sure) and Teemo's mushrooms.

    It's not too big of a deal in the current meta, since it costs a lot for champions to destroy the turrets. It might become a problem if someone like Caitlyn were to show up though...

  14. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    JitBs give 10, mushrooms don't give gold anymore. Tibbers gives 50, I think. Schism clones give 25.

  15. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    Heimer's a relatively good choice against Malzahar. They both spawn things that give gold and both push relatively decently.

  16. Orbital Bee Cannon
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    California

    Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    As other people have put it out here already, I'd like to see a built-in replay system being introduced sometime down the line. Ever since Riot made a few substantial changes a few patches ago that rendered LoLReplay unusable and sent the authors scrambling to find alternative technical solutions to make the program bug-free once more, it's been hard for me to record games without worrying about whether I'll crash my client or have something malfunction as a result, etc.

    I really do miss being able to record my own games worry-free. I do take a look at those recordings from time to time and the things I see from it are incredibly useful to me as a player. =\

    While this next change that I want to see is mostly a QoL add on, it'd be nice if Udyr's Phoenix Stance had a way to count the number of autoattacks needed before proccing the AoE nuke.

  17. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    I hope you realize this isn't Riot's doing. It's based on popular opinion on what "is best". If you want to do something different, do something different. The game is made to be played in many different ways. I personally like taking my AD carry mid. With an all AD page (+22) I can usually gain a pretty big advantage early on bu just harassing the other player. Not to mention, I don't need to worry about 2 people locking me down and killing me if you're competent and don't get raped by their jungler.

  18. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    Of course i realize it is not Riot's doing, completely.
    But the way the game is right now also has something to do with it.
    For example, not having a jungler is in most cases bad, pushing down towers early is also in a lot of cases not good. Roaming doesn't work quite as well as it could, though the new way exp works by killing someone higher level than you might let roaming work again.
    I often do stuff that people normally don't do, but my problem is that people can't accept that there are more than one way to play the game, i get dodged quite a few times if i want to go mid with an AD, which i have tried and succeeded with quite a few times, and if me and my friend try to run an aggressive bottom lane which punishes a farming lane, my team flips tables calling GG before the game is even started. Which to me, is a really bad attitude.

  19. aka ClawofBeta Straight Male
    Corn's Avatar [Jr. Event Coordinator]

    IGN: ClawofBeta
    Server: LoL.NA
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    New_Jersey

    Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    Well, technically a mid AD carry is substandard to an AP carry, who can usually nuke the AD carry in 1-2 skill rotations.

    I've had some luck with Caitlyn but that's just because her range is huge. However, if Veigar or Annie or someone pulls off a Flash Stun on me, I'm screwed.

  20. Default Re: What do you want to see in LoL?


    Well, that's because people don't itemize for the mid. Honestly, rush that new item and you're set. That Maw of Matherpderp or whatever essentially prevents anyone that can burst you, from bursting you even if you managed to get caught from a veigar stun(which you shouldn't)I personally think that an AD carry is much better due to the fact they can generally farm much better with the current meta.

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