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  1. Won't Be Coming Back Straight Male

    Server: Windia
    Level: 200
    Job: Blade Master
    usa

    Default Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    Hello,


    *******NOTE this does not apply to most 1handed weapon users as you can not obtain this much % boss + ignore!*******
    Does not apply to mercedes or DS as well (Most % def already ignored), primarily DB'S.
    Post justice, % boss will be definitive over % ignore!



    I've tried this myself and can't seem to get it right (Or I am and am just not getting the results I'd like).

    Dual weapon damage calculation (Assume dual blade).
    No % crit or otherwise, just simple calculations.

    21% ignore on Phantom (Decent CO).
    15% codex PDR.
    30% on weapon.
    65% boss katara, 60% boss dagger, 10% boss DS buff.

    Total PDR: 66
    Total boss: 1.35 + 1 = 2.35 multiplier.

    Cygnus has 70% def = .7

    Ok, so .7*(1-.66) = .238
    1-.238 = .762

    Assume a range of 150,000.

    150,000*.762 = 114,300

    Add in %boss, 114,300*2.35 = 268,305k

    Switch up to 100% ignore remain at 135% boss.

    150,000*2.35 = 352,500

    Switch up to 66% ignore and change to 175% boss.

    114,300*2.75 = 314,325.


    Am I missing something?
    I thought % boss was supposed to outweigh % ignore after 30% of 70% was ignored? Clearly this shows % ignore always wins....
    I even added 40% boss compared to 34% ignore, but it doesn't seem to matter....

    What's wrong.
    Last edited by DamageCalc; 2012-03-12 at 01:48 AM.

  2. Donator Straight Male
    IGN: ShinkuDragon HoukaPhoenix BoshokuRaven
    Server: Scania
    Level: 152
    Job: Batman
    Guild: IDissOrtis
    panama

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    Ok, so .7*(1-.66) = .238
    1-.238 = .762

    this right here probably.

    but your math confuses me, you're comparing 66% ignore 175% boss, to 100%ignore, 135% boss, right?

    100k damage on normal no pdr enemies, so to speak.

    100%pdr=70
    (100-66)=x

    empress ends with 23.8% PDR after 66% ignore.
    you deal 76.2% dmg

    100k*0.762*2.75=209.55k
    100k*1*2.35=235k

    wait whut o.O

  3. Won't Be Coming Back Straight Male

    Server: Windia
    Level: 200
    Job: Blade Master
    usa

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    Yes, I am.

    What's wrong with that math by the way.
    I figured something was.

    If I ignore 66% of .7 that leaves .238 meaning that I do .762 of my original damage, correct?

    Edit: my replies will be nearly instant as this is really making me frustrated.

    Shinku, your numbers do not match up to mine because instead of 100, I'm using 150.

    But ya, same results...

    For some reason, the ignore keeps winning damage wise.
    According to other PDR threads, % boss should almost always be better......

    Test on pap.

    .66*.25 = .165
    = .835
    *150k = 125,250
    *2.75 = 344,475

    150k x 2.35 = 352.5k

    Still wins with 100% ignore..?

  4. Donator Straight Male
    IGN: ShinkuDragon HoukaPhoenix BoshokuRaven
    Server: Scania
    Level: 152
    Job: Batman
    Guild: IDissOrtis
    panama

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    i know they don't match, but they're easier numbers, also, i was running with the monster having 100 PDR, with 50 ignored from skills, it would take over 2x as much boss damage to equal ignore%

    i remember saying what you read, which is why i'm weirded out now, can't remember what i was thinking back then, but it made sense, now i'm also frustrated.

    wait for joetang to post i guess.

  5. Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    It could just be that % ignore is worth more than was was originally thought of. Math looks correct from what I can see.

  6. Won't Be Coming Back Straight Male

    Server: Windia
    Level: 200
    Job: Blade Master
    usa

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    Ya, really irritating me.
    I just recubed a dagger from 50% boss 40% ignore (Would put me at 106% ignore, stupid leviathan would put me at 81% from leafre set and no dagger).
    My back up dagger is 60 attack lower and 15 luck, but has 35% ignore and 60% boss (Also putting me over 100% PDR, but ends with less attack..).

    If I didn't have that 2nd dagger and wasn't a perfectionist, I wouldn't have thought twice about cubing.

    Driving me insane. -_-

    I'll still be recubing that dagger, but it frustrates the hell out of me that there's no way for me to get 100% ignore, if this math checks out, without wasting a line on that dagger as well.
    I'll just end up with 10-20% more boss damage and about 5-10b more mesos wasted for that, which I can afford (But the math people posted led me to believe otherwise with scenarios like these).

    Annoying as hell.
    Joe left as well.

  7. Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    Oh you are trying to compare 2 daggers? But in anycase if you dont know what to do. follow the math. And its saying that PDR is better than boss damage given the same %. Here what you should do is find the inflection point of when Boss damage > PDR. Only method i can think of know for you is guess and check.

  8. Won't Be Coming Back Straight Male

    Server: Windia
    Level: 200
    Job: Blade Master
    usa

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    I'll always have over 66% ignore.
    It does not look like anything below 200% boss can beat 100% ignore, on ANY boss mob.
    Not possible for any dual blade.

    Edit:

    Found the point.

    Seems that over 80% ignore coupled with 175% boss is where it flips.
    That's way off from where everyone said.


    .2 x .7 = .14, 1-.14 = .86

    150,000 x .86 = 129,000

    129,000 x 2.75 = 354,750


    Be aware people, be aware.

  9. Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    If you have 66% Ignore Defense and 135% Boss Damage, vs 70% Defense monster, you need 74% or more Boss damage to beat getting more defense ignore.

    Calculate the total damage increase you get from going from 66% Ignore Defense to 100% Ignore Defense (In this case, it's 1 / 0.762 = 1.31x increase), and multiply that with your total Boss Damage to find the same amount of Boss Damage to get the same increase from Boss Damage (1.31 x 235 = 308)

  10. Won't Be Coming Back Straight Male

    Server: Windia
    Level: 200
    Job: Blade Master
    usa

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    I don't understand.

    Edit: Wait, are you saying I need 135%+74% MORE BOSS (209% boss) or just 74% boss.

  11. Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    If i had to guess since you say that boss> PDR

    going from 66% to 100% PDR is a 1.5151 increase with a mob of 70 defence MATH: (70 PDR/(70PDR*.66))=1.5151

    Going from 2.35 to 2.75 boss is a 1.17 increase. MATH: 2.75/2.35 = 1.17

    So even though you are flat increasing bossing by more, looking at the ration change of the two Increase your PDR is more beneficial.


    Edit
    ninja'ed... sorta anyway

  12. Donator Straight Male
    IGN: ShinkuDragon HoukaPhoenix BoshokuRaven
    Server: Scania
    Level: 152
    Job: Batman
    Guild: IDissOrtis
    panama

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    100k*0.3*1=30

    50% ignore

    100k*0.65*1=65

    50% boss

    100k*0.3*1.5=45


    100k*1*1=100

    100*0.3*2=60

    ok, i think i see the problem, and your math isn't wrong.

    when a boss is at 50% PDR, losing 1 PDR would equal to gaining 2% boss damage

    from what it seems, this has to be graphed, but %ignore seems to be better at empress at all points, brb, excel.

  13. Won't Be Coming Back Straight Male

    Server: Windia
    Level: 200
    Job: Blade Master
    usa

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    Only when boss exceeds 175% when ignore is 80%can it be more efficient.
    At 66% ignore, a boss multiplier of 3.2 is required to match 100% ignore.

    Great news.

    I realize that pointing this out is going to pineapple a lot of people over, as well as help a lot of people (Which I'm not too happy about), I just thought I'd get this out in the open..

    Hate the boss damage hype.
    L>Codex fix for leviathan.

    This doesn't apply to just cygnus.
    Apply it to all bosses as I did pap.


    *******Please note this does not apply to most 1handed weapon users as you can not obtain this much % boss + ignore!*******

  14. Donator Straight Male
    IGN: ShinkuDragon HoukaPhoenix BoshokuRaven
    Server: Scania
    Level: 152
    Job: Batman
    Guild: IDissOrtis
    panama

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    thing is, at pap, % ignore isn't anywhere near as effective as % boss

    100k*0.75*2=150

    the thing with cygnus is that %ignore has more value there, each 1% ignore takes .7 PDR away, while on papulatus it only takes 0.25

    guess you have to compare %boss at that certain point, vs %ignore from base

    i'll continue this tomorrow, i got to sleep now.

  15. Donator Straight Male
    IGN: ShinkuDragon HoukaPhoenix BoshokuRaven
    Server: Scania
    Level: 152
    Job: Batman
    Guild: IDissOrtis
    panama

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    @DamageCalc;

    here boss, whipped this up quickly for you

    Spoiler


    you can see the inflection point at empress seems to be 60%~ PDR, after that, a 10% increment in boss damage would be better than a 10% increment in PDR
    you can notice this is only at clean status, and that if you have 10% boss (say, from DS) the inflection point is higher



    that doesn't answer your question though, so here

    Spoiler


    you can see that having more %boss damage actually makes %ignore better, because of the insane amounts you have, even at papulatus a small increase in ignore with a small decrease in %boss results in better damage.

  16. Won't Be Coming Back Straight Male

    Server: Windia
    Level: 200
    Job: Blade Master
    usa

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    Why thank you.
    I didn't really bother looking at the charts, but they're there if anyone needs a reference.

    I'm glad this was cleared up for now.
    Justice should eliminate all of this seeing as phantom gets a major damage boost and 10% more ignore, which will put me over the inflection of my current boss/ignore ration (Unless I decide to go over the top).

    Off topic random question: Has anyone seen a double primary potential on a weapon, specifically two or 3 lines of 40% boss on the SAME weapon (or 40% ignore).

    If you have seen 40/40, please tell me. Thank you.
    Not 30/35/40, really looking for a 40/40 to see if it's worth going for.

  17. Donator Straight Male
    IGN: ShinkuDragon HoukaPhoenix BoshokuRaven
    Server: Scania
    Level: 152
    Job: Batman
    Guild: IDissOrtis
    panama

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    phantom added 10% ignore too? i could have sworn it was only 10% critical.

    as for what you ask, you've been answered in the other thread, i only remember the pants that were posted there, and a SS i saw on basil of someone with a mask with three 6% lines at unique, i haven't seen that SS in ages, so i wouldn't hold my word in high regard.

    anyways, i'm sure you can understand the chart, but if there's any questions just quote me.

  18. Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    It's pretty confusing when someone refers to Phantom Blow as just Phantom when there's a class already named Phantom. Stop please.

  19. Donator Straight Male
    IGN: ShinkuDragon HoukaPhoenix BoshokuRaven
    Server: Scania
    Level: 152
    Job: Batman
    Guild: IDissOrtis
    panama

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    WELL, EVERYTHING MAKES MUCH MORE SENSE NOW.

    i derped haaard, thanks jt.

  20. Won't Be Coming Back Straight Male

    Server: Windia
    Level: 200
    Job: Blade Master
    usa

    Default Re: Empress Ignore/boss damage calculations (DB).


    It's not confusing at all.
    I stated it was on a dual blade.
    Can't be anymore clear than that.

    @shinku

    You were right, phantom however doesn't get passive ignore, but BFury does.

    Even the class "PHANTOM" doesn't get passive ignore, so there should be no mix up.
    If you felt like complaining about a minuscule mis-comprehension, that wasn't even misconstrued by ANYONE including yourself, this was not the place.

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