[KMST] [1.2.379] More Magician Tweaks

[Chilly]

If that F/P would have casted two Mists, the ME would probably 1 shot it.

Same with the pap vid, you can easily cast 4 mists in the room and have them all hit pap.

Or doesn't it work that way?

It doesn't work like that, it's impossible to make it hit more than once every 10 seconds on the same monster.

It already is overpowered as it is. Perhaps they could change the mechanics on which the multipliers multiply instead of changing the percentage, but then again, just moving the percentage down would be the quickest and easiest method to do so.

I'm assuming GC is still 30 skill points to max, though I see some people mentioning 10, where is this number coming from?
Edit: I see it now, people are confusing Master Level (10) with Max Level (30).

[byakugan]

If that F/P would have casted two Mists, the ME would probably 1 shot it.

Same with the pap vid, you can easily cast 4 mists in the room and have them all hit pap.

Or doesn't it work that way?

Someone said before that you cannot hit 1 monster with 2 mists at the same time. It would indeed be too broken, you wouldn't even need to apply DOTs first.

[Atruya]

Someone said before that you cannot hit 1 monster with 2 mists at the same time. It would indeed be too broken, you wouldn't even need to apply DOTs first.

I see, that makes things a lot easier.

[cronnoponno]

Bishops are clearly intended to be a support class, because Nexon thinks it's justified to make them do like 30% of the damage that everyone else does. There are just a lot of fundamental challenges to the existence of a support class in the game, and most of them have already been covered in this thread.

Recap:

• Can't have only one support class in a game with 20+ classes
• Supporting abilities aren't enhanced by stats
• Dumb health system
• Dumb boss design
• In order for support to be wanted, you have to make solo play much less viable for non-support classes
• Solo play should always be viable. No one spends ALL their time in an MMO grouped. Damage is way too big of a factor in any solo activity in Maple, though, and whatever a support class can contribute to or receive from a party does not balance that.

The things I suggested could have solved nearly all of those issues, and that was only thinking up a few interesting skills. Support CAN work, Nexon just isn't trying hard enough, and seeing by the attitudes of the people on this thread, I don't blame them anymore.

Of course, I know my suggestions will never actually be implemented, but support CAN work in Maple if you get a little creative, instead of destroying the benefits of other classes to make priests feel more important, they can increase the role of a priest to make partying more viable than solo.

[ShanghaiDizzy]

OMG thank you nexon for at least compromising with AR for me!

Ha and the last thread people were all over me for saying AR needed a buff. :P

Nobody was against you in that thread for buffing AR. What they were talking about is that AR wouldn't matter if it was multi-hit or single hit unless you were able to hit the damage cap. Also, AR was not buffed. It was 900% single hit before. Now it's 2 hit 450%. This is not a buff unless you're able to hit damage cap. It's practically the same for the average Bishop at the moment.

As for the other discussions about Bishops being a support class...

I still hold to my stance that Bishops are a support class. Not a good support class but still a support class. Very little does it offer in terms of support outside of bossing and when it does offer support in bossing, a whole lot of it is nulled due to the existence of wheels.

[Dusk]

The things I suggested could have solved nearly all of those issues, and that was only thinking up a few interesting skills. Support CAN work, Nexon just isn't trying hard enough, and seeing by the attitudes of the people on this thread, I don't blame them anymore.

Of course, I know my suggestions will never actually be implemented, but support CAN work in Maple if you get a little creative, instead of destroying the benefits of other classes to make priests feel more important, they can increase the role of a priest to make partying more viable than solo.

The skills you suggested do not solve any of those issues. All they do is increase the variety in skill usage, which is a problem that affects every class in the game.

[LegendGospel]

Legend Gospel, all they have to do about that is change the EXP ratio, this whole issue would never have been a problem if people weren't so ASSHURT that others who were of no importance to them simply got easier level ups because they decide to sit and leech. I already said this in an earlier post.

All you did was complain about what I said, and didn't even offer any real help that would change the situation. Back then, I always heard everyone say they wanted to be a cleric because they liked supporting, they liked helping in an indirect way that didn't involve help bashing skulls, and they were really useful. Nexon made this class into a support class, and there are fine ways to promote support.

For example, what if they were able to do something like, I don't know, use skills that required them to remain stationary while providing buffs to everyone within a certain distance from themselves? It's a similar concept to the ''Aura's'' that battle mage uses, but we could give these cooler, and more interesting effects. What about erecting holy idols (like dark lightning, only light), that heal everyone within the vicinity over time, and THIS can actually heal zombify, but not be as broken as ''HEAL HEAL HEAL'' through it? What if they could do both? For example, setting up this ''healing'' idol, on one side of the map, then using the stationary spell in order to do whatever effect for the other people on the other side of the map? This way, if anyone is seduced, they'll walk into the holy idol, and end up healing themselves.


There are plenty of ''priest-like'' things you can make out of a bishop, that would make them interesting and important, and even add a unique concept to bossing, in fact, my idea makes sense because battle mages seem to be pretty opposite to bishops(dark looking genesis, partial support), why not have a unique ''aura'' method themselves?

You guys(and Nexon is equally guilty) are not thinking good enough, it CAN be done, and bishops CAN be made an interesting class.

To further add on to this, what if they had a ''keydown'' skill that works like the old battleship? Imagine that, sort of like smoke screen, only it has it's own reserve HP that regenerates over time when not being used, and blocks status effects and damage? That would be a REAL support skill, that takes actual skill to use. Imagine being able to shield your party members at will, from serious threats from bosses, so long as you're not stupid and spam the shield. Hell, to make it even more worthwhile, make it block 1/1's(but make it do actual damage).

Think of it as like a puppet, that works for the party? That'd be a great support skill, wouldn't you agree?

These are nice ideas for skills, but...
HOW IN HEAVENS DOES THAT SOLVE BISHOPS LEVELING NOT EVEN HALF AS FAST AS EVERY OTHER FOURTH JOB?

If you read carefully, that was my real complaint. Sure support can work, but where's the exp income for Bishops themselves?

I made a cleric years ago liking to support. Started it along with my girlfriend, who played a Brawler when they came out. Back then pots mattered, and it was nice to heal with a 6:4 leech ratio. Playing together 100% of the time in party, she was usually 7+ levels above me, so not even back then supporting was self-sustainable. And sure as hell it's not now, specially at party play area monsters, where every bit of damage matters.

The idea of support in Maple has always been a myth. People saw "Cleric" and assumed supportive role, they said they liked being supportive, they never knew they were not at all supportive.
Perhaps they were, when Heal actually mattered, LPQ, OPQ, Himes and what not. Things changed. Meso was on multiple occasions generated like diarrhea, inflation on a lucky drop led to the super ease of access to unlimited pot supply. Boom, nobody cares for Heal anymore.

What this fine gentleman said.

A note I'd also like to make is that old school Priests did level way faster than other classes, and with way less difficulty as well. Sure, at Himes, you're jealous of us who get the bigger portion of the cake (wasn't that much, really, just 1.5x more than you get), but if you cared enough to go look for a SQPT, or if you've ever observed a F/P at Grims, you'd better appreciate what you'd got going.

It's just that back then mages sucked even more than priests, but priests still sucked compared to other 3rd jobs XD. But of course both mages and bishops in 4th job got a payback for their pain, letting them spam ultimates.

Well, no use kicking a dead horse. What matters is the current situation, where Bishops can't dream of getting the same exp as other 4th jobbers simply because our dps sucks more than it should, and supporting offers no real good income of exp soooo... we're basically stuck to be leeching mules for gameplay (not counting bossing, where btw we also get crappy exp).

Maybe this is why Nexon is removing party play areas like LHC, not only Bishops but basically any job can just hang on a rope while 1-2 people attack and the rest just leech. Monster Carnival is instanced by rooms and time limited so you have to move around too... of course that doesn't change that Bishops will get the lower end in Monster Carnival still.

In short:

Bishops are meant to support? Yes.
Is support a sustainable gameplay in maple? No.
Ergo Bishops are borked.

Possible solutions:
a) Let Bishops hit hard enough to get sum chunks of exp from party play areas/bosses.
b) Make supporting reward Bishops in exp so they actually have a reason to do it, instead of just being really nice to others. BISHOPS DO IT FOR REWARDS, LEARN YOUR RELIGIONS NEXON.

[Wheels1]

In my opinion, it's better for a Bishop to have decent Damage per Second, rather than just being a support class crap, so Bishops can gain about the same EXP as other classes. Having the "Bishop is a support class" argument is getting old.

[cronnoponno]

I really hope this doesn't end up being a double a post, this lagged A LOT.

cut

The ways I suggested would make survivability as bosses much easier, isn't the main problem with the Empress that people have low survivability? The old ratio was plenty enough for the priests I asked, while 1-70 sucked(which it did for every class back then), and 70-80 was pretty terrible, every class hit a leveling spike at 80-100, and then it went back to crap until 120(and even further if you played a 4th job that took effort to go through). Himes were pretty much the best place to train with a DK much higher level than you. I've tried training a paladin pre-BB, and I would have killed for stuff like holy symbol, bless(I was unfunded so accuracy sucked), and constant healing. Especially training at soul teddies, or himes, since heal actually damaged the mobs so the EXP still went nicely into the priests favor.

I can understand now how they were totally screwed over now that most of that is useless, but they could just make them really beastly supporters rather than just slightly buff them so they can remain in ''mid-tier'' category in damage, you're practically arguing that they should make Bishops better at leeching.

Lets ignore 1-3 jobs, the potential of a class should not be judged in these categories, completely anyway. Back then DK's were the best in third job, but their 4th job wasn't as hot(best in warriors, anyway). So, no matter how overpowered they are before they hit their potential, they still fall short.

Here are a few skills that I think would make support more worthwhile, off the top of my head:

(third job)Perfect Shield:
For ten uses, your party will ignore any debuffs that ''dispel''. This skill will have a 50 second cooldown AFTER the skill has either expired, or the skill has been used up.

(third job, remove spell booster) Hero Amplification:
Erects a statue that buffs the % of damage to anyone in range, however, their MP cost is increased by 50%.(The damage % could be debated). This tower has a set amount of HP that will cause it to be destroyed when depleted, it can be affected by the Clerics ''Heal'' skill in order to sustain it. While in this barrier, holy attribute MAGIC is increased by 10%(This is about the rate an e-wand gives mages, right?)

Remove the magic rock requirement for mystic door, only people who get this skill through potential should have to pay for it.

(remove Holy Symbol, and Dispel)

(Third Job) Empowerment:
Dispels any abnormal status effects on yourself and all party members within range, and gives a 150% boost to the party's EXP. The priest will have his/her EXP rate increased by 250%, this effect only takes place with a maximum amount of party members, does not stack with the 150% the party gets, and is lowered depending on how fewer party members you have(So having 5 party members will still give you more than 150%).

(Remove Doom)
New skill:
Dormant Potential:
Adds a random potential effect to yourself and anyone in the party, at the master level, it can only go up to the ''epic'' rank. Only Boss damage, total damage, all stat, and all stat % can be received by this skill.



4th job:

Buff Mastery:
Increases the HP of tower skills, allows ''legendary'' tier to ''Dormant Potential'', Allows Empowerment to have a 10% chance to dispel ALL abnormal conditions. Buff duration bonus still remains, magic attack bonus still remains. Perfect shield becomes able to stop 15 dispels and has a 30 second cooldown.

New Skill, Unburden:
For a certain amount of time, you do not cause the EXP of the party to lower by being in it, however you still get the EXP from the parties contribution.(What I mean is that the parties EXP is not compensated by you joining it, this is a good thing, however you still get all of your normal EXP that you would get). This buff is affected by buff mastery, and has a cooldown.


(Remove Mana reflection)
New skill: Spirit Shield.
When the Key is pressed, a magical shield will come out of the Bishops channeled Mana, causing any and all harm to be rendered ineffective to all who are in, this shield has a limit to how much damage can take and will heal over time when remaining idle. If the shield is ''overheated'', it will be unusable for a set time. This is considered a ''Tower'' type skill.

Remove ADV bless, and give it's effects to buff mastery

New Skill:
Tower of Salvation
Creates a giant tower in the shape of a cross, which will heal all friendly units and damage all unfriendly units within range, this skill will heal through zombify, the interval will be 4 seconds. The tower will have a certain amount of hp, and when it is destroyed it will go through cooldown,


Give Genesis the ability to heal all towers within range, and heal all players within range, allow it to heal through zombify.

(Remove Bahamut)

Skill: Guardian
The user of this skill will conjure a giant wheel on it, it will then spin through a number of options on it, depending on the number, a certain guardian will burst out of the wheel and provide you with a number of benefits. Upon entry into the game, the explosion from the wheel will damage nearby monsters.

1: Summon Bahamut:
Summons a holy dragon to fight with you, can attack up to X monsters(Level dependant).
2: Summon Maple warrior: A legendary warrior will appear to buff you and allies for a certain duration, this buff will be stack-able with other buffs.

Those are the only ones I can think of, due to not knowing Maplestory's lore like the back of my hand, I don't want to make up a bunch of furballs and cherries, but I'd say it has at least 6 different types of summons that each do interesting effects.


These are just some skills I thought off the top of my head, and the potency of them could be debated to be ''fair'', but I think these are a few good ideas for interesting skills, if Nexon spent a few months brainstorming like this, I'm sure they could really blow our minds with the concept of ''support'' and really make Bishops an extremely desirable team-mate.

[LegendGospel]

The priest will have his/her EXP rate increased by 250%

Something like this is the only thing that would actually help Priests/Bishops into being happy supporters.

Right now you can choose between hanging on a rope, or spamming heal for 100~ exp a heal (and waste pots getting hit). Guess which option Bishops are gonna choose.

If Bishops are gaining roughly the same %/hour as people attacking, you'll see them more motivated to be on the battlefield doing their role (support), whatever support skills you give to them. Towers, heals, summons, dispels, whatever.

The easiest solution really is having HS give Bishops higher exp bonus than the rest of the party, though not very creative.

[cronnoponno]

Wait, how does my unburden idea not help, and only my HS idea does? I figured that'd be fun as hell to be placing towers strategically during boss fights, and keeping up their HP's and being able to actually SAVE people so they don't spam 50 wheels when they fight the next best boss. I also think that since they're the king of buffs, rather than giving them 50 buffs, give them a few buffs that mash the effects of the others, to save SP.

[LegendGospel]

Wait, how does my unburden idea not help, and only my HS idea does?

The way I understood it, is basically that it makes everyone gain more exp than the Bishop again, making a HS personal buff moot. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Plus, it basically shouts Bishops are burdens, lol.

[cronnoponno]

Basically, the mechanics of it would work like this:

HS flags it as 6 people in the party.
Because there are 6 people, the EXP is distributed 6 ways.
However, unburden makes you ''not count'' in this distribution, meaning it's split 5 ways, AKA giving everyone a bigger chunk.
You still receive this bigger chunk of 5-way EXP, and get the benefits of a 6 person party. So, lets say a mob gives 60 EXP. If the ratio was split fairly, where everyone got 10% of the kill, everyone would normally get 10 EXP. Unburden would remove the mechanics of a 6th person, giving everyone(including the unburdened) 12 EXP instead. Combine this with 250% EXP, the priest gets much more.

Unburden just seemed like a priestly name, where one wouldn't want to impose on others, but I guess I subliminally made it sound like that.

This way, no one has to worry about a priest taking their EXP, and it would actually be beneficial to both, because they can only gain EXP with you in the party, so they'd take you instead of inviting someone else who would steal a chunk of their EXP.

[Dusk]

There are plenty of ways to make EXP growth more equal without making everyone's damage the same or imposing party training.

- Are there fixed EXP rewards for completing Monster Park instances? If not, there should be.

- Nexon could write up some real lore for the game, and make quests the primary means of leveling.

- Different builds for each class. Bishops could choose to spec to deal more damage or to be better at support. Other classes would gain support options, or different playstyles. This is the most unfeasible option.

The stupid grind-in-one-map-for-12-hours-to-level model is why no one cares about anything but damage.