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  1. #1
    LazyBui
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    Attack Speed Reference

    The method for retrieving these values is using the packets sent to the server. Each one contains a tick count. For those who aren't familiar with a tick count, it's generally represented as the number of milliseconds since your computer has been started.

    You should be able to do raw math on these values - 60000 ms in a minute divided by number of ms per attack = number of attacks per minute.

    I also have values normalized off to the side of each number (relative to Normal 6 weapon speed - might change this to Fast (5) as there aren't many weapons slow enough to make it an effective comparison) so you can see what type of gain you'd get from each speed boost.

    I noticed random increases of 30ms while holding down the attack button. There seems to be no specific trigger. It happens with all skills listed (with the only exception of Hurricane thus far) and across all weapon speeds.

    Faster (3) + booster and Faster (2) + booster register as Faster (2) speed, not 1. Even with Speed Infusion, you will not have an attack speed greater than Faster (2). However, Speed Infusion will stack with other boosters for a maximum of +4 weapon speeds. If your weapon is Normal (6), you can attack at Faster (2) with your weapon's booster and Speed Infusion.

    If you are unsure as to how fast your weapon actually is, Fiel is your man. http://www.southperry.net/forums/sho...&postcount=117

    Final Attack is in the form of delay after Final Attack + original skill delay. Animation is stated if relevant. Delay is listed for skills that differ in use times (takes longer to spam than alternate skills).

    Summons/Charge Skills


    Bow


    Claw


    Crossbow


    Dagger


    Gun


    Knuckle


    Polearm/Spear


    Sword/Mace/Axe


    Wand/Staff
    Last edited by LazyBui; 2009-08-03 at 04:40 PM.
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  2. #2
    Stereo
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    Are you sure these tick counts are accurate measures of attack speed? You already said they're only every 30 ms (1/33 of a second) and that some skills have up to 90ms delays randomly. I thought the server was just using them to synchronize the random number generator (and maybe to check for desync or fast attack cheats)



    I dunno how possible it is but you might want to look at which attack animation Warrior weapons are using. As you mentioned FA depends on this (noticeable ingame even - stab-slash is a different speed than slash-stab)
    Last edited by Stereo; 2008-09-04 at 11:38 AM.
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  3. #3
    LazyBui
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    I looked for patterns in animation when I first noticed the random 30ms increase. No specific pattern of animations produced it every time, nor did it come at a specific interval - i.e. every 10 attacks or whatever.

    As far as I can tell, the only thing that animation affects other than damage is Final Attack speed. I'll play around with Final Attack some more tomorrow.

    Tick counts are measured in ms, so yes, they are accurate. Holding down the key randomly produces the difference that I stated. That is, there's no chance for anything else (lag, failure to press the key fast enough in the case of non-charge skills, acts of God, etc.) to be a factor. I also made sure to check every skill I was testing many times over before committing to one number as the proper value after figuring out this randomness factor.

    EDIT: On a somewhat interesting note, the only things you can even use faster by rapid presses rather than holding down the key are charge skills. Holding down the key is essentially the same as mashing it like crazy.

    EDIT2: Sample output from Pumpkin Spear + Spear Booster + Power Strike so you see what I mean:
    SKILLID WSPEED: TICK COUNT (DIFFERENCE FROM LAST)
    Spoiler
    Last edited by LazyBui; 2008-09-04 at 12:15 PM.
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  4. #4
    Dusk
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    I stated it in the archer attack speed thread, but since the game's update routine only runs every 1/60 of a second, I don't think you would see exactly the speeds advertised here in practical use. Good find though, I never thought of that method.

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  5. #5
    Russt
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    Hm, could you first test the archer FA delays?

    Since they only have one animation, it might be a stepping stone of sorts. Figure out archers first, then go onto the stabby-slashy warriors.


    More things to consider:
    Crusher 2 hits/3 hits? I was under the impression they had different speeds.
    Perhaps SB 4/5/6 as well.
    Faster (2) sword? RK+booster?
    Could you explain the 30 ms increases in greater detail?
    And the default, i.e. normal attack speeds? For some of them, they're obvious (bow, crossbow, claw, sword/axe/mace, spear/polearm) since a whole bunch of skills share the same speed. But for others (dagger, pirate weapons) it's not as obvious. I would guess that Double Stab/Band of Thieves/Steal is default for dagger, but it's not too clear.
    Last edited by Russt; 2008-09-04 at 08:22 PM.
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  6. #6
    JoeTang
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    Band of Thieves and Steal both use Stab and Slash animations, thus rendering varying possible results for each attack.

    Double Stab is faster than 100apm.
    Last edited by JoeTang; 2008-09-04 at 10:45 PM.
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  7. #7
    Hazzy
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  8. #8
    Devil
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    Faster (2): 1380ms
    Faster (3): 1500ms
    Fast (4): 1620ms
    Fast (5): 1710ms
    Few questions:
    - Is this only the first 3 hits or also plus the 4th hit?
    - Is getting into Dark Sight calculated along with it?
    - How much ms does it take to get into / out of Dark Sight after they patched it?
    - Is Dark Sight ms delay based on any booster speeds?

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  9. #9
    DrRusty
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBui View Post

    Faster (3) + booster registers as a 2 weapon speed, not a 1 (looks like Wind Booster may help every weapon after all).
    I didn't understand this part. Doesn't every weapon max out at Faster 2? and every attack, no matter how fast, seems like it maxes out at 600ms.

    Even with windbooster, wouldn't the weapons that are already Faster(2) not get any faster?
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  10. #10
    LazyBui
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    Updated with normal attacks and tested Savage Blow (doesn't increase/decrease in speed) and Crusher. Interestingly enough, Crusher is faster for levels 1-15.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrRusty View Post
    I didn't understand this part. Doesn't every weapon max out at Faster 2? and every attack, no matter how fast, seems like it maxes out at 600ms.

    Even with windbooster, wouldn't the weapons that are already Faster(2) not get any faster?
    I'm curious as to why it just stops at 2. There's another integer there. I'm wondering if Wind Booster breaks through and we finally see a 1 or if it leaves it at 2.

    If it's left at 2 for ever more, why? Would a 1 break the calculation system? I think this could lead us to a more concrete method of determining attack speeds and understanding more about the game.
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  11. #11
    Devil's Sunrise
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBui View Post
    If it's left at 2 for ever more, why? Would a 1 break the calculation system? I think this could lead us to a more concrete method of determining attack speeds and understanding more about the game.
    Theoretically you can have a (-1) Fastest weapon, which doesn't make sense. There has to be a limit somewhere.

    Also, test out Fastest(1) with Pumpkin Basket. If the speed is 600 ms, well, then I suppose that's the limit.

    RK is Red Katana. Might as well just use a lvl 1 sword, which has the same speed.

    Edit: So basically the limit is at 2 with booster? 3+booster = 4+booster?
    Last edited by Devil's Sunrise; 2008-09-05 at 10:08 AM.
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  12. #12
    Fiel
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    Bui, you can get all weapon IDs from here and they link with the rest of the southperry database.

    http://www.southperry.net/database/character.html

    It's updated for 0.59 too.
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  13. #13
    USMC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiel View Post
    Bui, you can get all weapon IDs from here and they link with the rest of the southperry database.

    http://www.southperry.net/database/character.html

    It's updated for 0.59 too.
    The link appears to be broken o.O
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  14. #14
    LazyBui
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    Animation might have more to do with this wily increase than I originally suspected, the increase is very rare on bows/crossbows (which only have one animation), considerably more apparent on non-spear/polearm weapons, and very, very apparent on spears/polearms.

    I am, however, getting consistent numbers for Final Attack on bow/crossbow, so we'll see if I can turn that into something useful for the others.

    And wow, if Crossbow users get shafted, it's on Final Attack. It's more like two attacks than one and a half attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiel View Post
    Bui, you can get all weapon IDs from here and they link with the rest of the southperry database.

    http://www.southperry.net/database/character.html

    It's updated for 0.59 too.
    Oh, outstanding. I didn't know about that feature. Mind if I toss that in the opening post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Sunrise View Post
    Theoretically you can have a (-1) Fastest weapon, which doesn't make sense. There has to be a limit somewhere.

    Also, test out Fastest(1) with Pumpkin Basket. If the speed is 600 ms, well, then I suppose that's the limit.

    RK is Red Katana. Might as well just use a lvl 1 sword, which has the same speed.

    Edit: So basically the limit is at 2 with booster? 3+booster = 4+booster?
    Pumpkin Basket is a Faster (3) weapon by default, so it ends up being weapon speed class 2 with Sword Booster. So yes, it is 600ms per attack at 2, but it only registers as 2.

    Yes, 3 + booster = 4 + booster.
    Last edited by LazyBui; 2008-09-05 at 10:47 AM.
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  15. #15
    Fiel
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBui View Post
    Oh, outstanding. I didn't know about that feature. Mind if I toss that in the opening post?
    I don't mind at all. The page would serve no purpose if it's never viewed. :)
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  16. #16
    RahlsSoldier
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBui View Post
    And wow, if Crossbow users get shafted, it's on Final Attack. It's more like two attacks than one and a half attacks.
    Now that is a useful piece of information. I have a feeling all the people with crossbow guides, or bow vs. crossbow guides need to add this into it. Not to mention it is a further reason to get rid of FA if you are a crossbow user.
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  17. #17
    Russt
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBui View Post
    And wow, if Crossbow users get shafted, it's on Final Attack. It's more like two attacks than one and a half attacks.
    I knew it. Knew it knew it knew it knew it knew it.

    -tries to calculate DPS for bow FA to settle that issue once and for all-
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  18. #18
    Stereo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Sunrise View Post
    Theoretically you can have a (-1) Fastest weapon, which doesn't make sense. There has to be a limit somewhere.
    In the past, client hacks could put you to speed 0 or lower, of course they would almost always disconnect you from MS (it doesn't like speeds below Faster(3) + booster being spammed, since no player weapons reach this) but I believe it uses something along the lines of (500ms + speed*45ms) to determine the actual speed, so it's meaningful up to around -12 speed.

    The limit to speed 2 may be a new thing, I believe the Wizet Briefcase is already speed 2 so if anything, BW booster should tell you whether that item changes speed at all.
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  19. #19
    LazyBui
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereo View Post
    The limit to speed 2 may be a new thing, I believe the Wizet Briefcase is already speed 2 so if anything, BW booster should tell you whether that item changes speed at all.
    It is a weapon speed 2 and booster does absolutely nothing to it.

    I think I might give Spell Booster + Heal a shot after polearm/spear Final Attack, since that's the only thing that might potentially yield a sub-600ms attack (other than Final Attack/Hurricane which don't quite count).

    EDIT: Well, it does. Spell Booster +1 = 570ms Heal. Spell Booster +2 = 540ms Heal. Doesn't seem to affect how quickly damage displays, though, so perhaps that person was right.
    Last edited by LazyBui; 2008-09-05 at 11:47 AM.
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  20. #20
    DrRusty
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    Bow
    Hurricane
    All: 120ms

    Claw
    Lucky Seven/Triple Throw/Drain/Shadow Meso/Normal Attack
    Faster (2): 600ms
    Faster (3): 660ms
    Fast (4): 720ms
    Normal (6): 810ms

    Looking at this attack time table got me thinking about Triple Throw VS SoA.

    5 Arrows from SoA would be 600ms, and terms between TT is also 600ms.
    The thing is, the last 3 hits from TT are only half of the first three hits, so TT would be hit, hit, hit, 1/2hit, 1/2hit, 1/2hit. or 4 1/2.

    So lets call it SoA vs Quadruple and a half throw. (Q1/2T)

    In 600ms, SoA fires 5 arrows and Q1/2T fires 4.5 stars. NL's have higher critical rate, but bowmasters have higher mastery (bow expert 90%) Not to mention SE brings up bowmaster's critical higher than NL's, and SoA technically does 1/2 a hit more than Q1/2T in the same amount of time. If a NL has SE, then once again his critical rate would jump up higher than a BM's, but BM's still have that higher mastery. Would that equal the two out?

    Of course with an apple + SE, a NL would win hands down.

    This is just something I was thinking of in the past 15 minutes, so sorry if I sound like a complete idiot.
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