[KMST] [1.2.336] Changed Guild Skills

[IsaacGS]

Because crits affect everyone evenly. Crit is no longer a damage bonus that's most effective for 3 or 4 classes out of like 22. It doesn't help much in lower levels, but at higher levels it's a lot more of a bonus. The higher your % stats, the higher your critical damage. It's a simple, effective system that works much better for every character rather than favoriting ranged classes and to some extent, buccaneers when training.

That's exactly the problem - the classes that used criticals are losing out on what was once their strength because it's now something everyone has and can build up to an optimum level with potential. So Archers lose out their damage boost on criticals, their superior accuracy (Thanks to the stupid level-based formula) and still get shafted with lower HP than is needed to participate in things.

Am I wrong in thinking that the whole point of a critical is that it's a chance at hitting for far more than usual? That the perk of having a critical chance is that, while you can hit really low lows, you can also land really high highs? That was the fun part of it - non critical classes had very stable damage, to the point where you more or less know that, say, every magic claw will do about 3k damage. If i fire a single strafe, it could be 12k, it could be 40k. It's not going to be as exciting to get a critical when the difference is 28k to 32k, for example. It robs the whole difference of playing the critical classes. If the main difference between gunslingers and crossbowmen is that crossbows have a slightly higher rate of criticals, but critical hits aren't all that different from noncriticals... that's not much of a difference at all.

Admittedly i don't have a high leveled character in KMS to test on, but the way it looks right now they should just take criticals out because they're pointless.

[Polka]

i was just thinking while reading this and wondering if they added an "ignore knockback" to criticals, making them worth a little more for the ranged classes even if it doesn't increase their damage by a lot. can anyone verify or test to see if criticals always cause knockback on high level monsters?

[Alloy]

That's exactly the problem - the classes that used criticals are losing out on what was once their strength because it's now something everyone has and can build up to an optimum level with potential. So Archers lose out their damage boost on criticals, their superior accuracy (Thanks to the stupid level-based formula) and still get shafted with lower HP than is needed to participate in things.

Am I wrong in thinking that the whole point of a critical is that it's a chance at hitting for far more than usual? That the perk of having a critical chance is that, while you can hit really low lows, you can also land really high highs? That was the fun part of it - non critical classes had very stable damage, to the point where you more or less know that, say, every magic claw will do about 3k damage. If i fire a single strafe, it could be 12k, it could be 40k. It's not going to be as exciting to get a critical when the difference is 28k to 32k, for example. It robs the whole difference of playing the critical classes. If the main difference between gunslingers and crossbowmen is that crossbows have a slightly higher rate of criticals, but critical hits aren't all that different from noncriticals... that's not much of a difference at all.

Admittedly i don't have a high leveled character in KMS to test on, but the way it looks right now they should just take criticals out because they're pointless.

Wasn't it changed so that it inflicted damage multiplicatively? I'd say that works better if you have a higher critical chance along with damage. For thieves, for example, we have a 15% minimum critical damage increase, I believe. Sharp eyes pushes it further, and with higher chances, it goes better overall.

And GLADLY, it's not like before, where a certain class without sharp eyes would be pathetic without it, and broken with it.

[Takebacker]

That's exactly the problem - the classes that used criticals are losing out on what was once their strength because it's now something everyone has and can build up to an optimum level with potential. So Archers lose out their damage boost on criticals, their superior accuracy (Thanks to the stupid level-based formula) and still get shafted with lower HP than is needed to participate in things.

Archers and NLs don't lose out on anything. Accuracy was a joke at this point anyway, and ranged classes still get more out of criticals than other classes do because ranged classes fire a lot more hits in a smaller amount of time than every other class. Not to mention both archers and NLs got extremely powerful base damage upgrades to compensate for the removed dependance on critical damage. Even if critical gives less damage compared to non crit bowmasters fire 700 arrows per minute, MMs at around like 570ish, and NLs at 600ish which means you're getting a LOT more damage out of criticals than any other class still.

[IsaacGS]

Archers and NLs don't lose out on anything. Accuracy was a joke at this point anyway, and ranged classes still get more out of criticals than other classes do because ranged classes fire a lot more hits in a smaller amount of time than every other class. Not to mention both archers and NLs got extremely powerful base damage upgrades to compensate for the removed dependance on critical damage. Even if critical gives less damage compared to non crit bowmasters fire 700 arrows per minute, MMs at around like 570ish, and NLs at 600ish which means you're getting a LOT more damage out of criticals than any other class still.

Yeah, accuracy was a joke, but at least you could make use of it by training on higher level monsters earlier, like sniping Newties at 8x, or fighting bosses like Royal Guard S. Now that's literally impossible, regardless of class. lot of weak hits that are increased by a small amount means it's still a lot of weak hits. Right now, pre-BB, with hurricane and SE we've got 55% critical rate, and 10 arrows per second (for math simplicity). that means that 5.5 of the arrows are very strong, and 4.5 are very weak. But it averages out, so that the DPS is decent. After big bang, it's 4.5 arrows are low damage, and 5.5 are moderate damage, that averages out to be weak compared to others. The biggest thing i'm worried about is losing the ability to pin and hold back bosses, because the only thing that prevents them from flattening me like a steamroller are the high criticals. Without that, there's no way to hold them back. Since our HP is still pomegranate, we can't take the hits, so we're going to die.

So no more soloing bosses. No more training on higher level monsters early. No more high criticals. It feels as though all of the BM's strengths have been ripped away and we're left with the myriad weaknesses unaltered in any significant way. Now I can't even continue running around on my own, because if I want to get anything out of these guild skills, I have no choice but to join one of the big guilds. The big guilds who hold boss altars from each other, who merchant the FM and ruin the economy. Who get in KS wars and members get harassed for the name under their character and not for any action they took personally. Can't I do ANYTHING by myself anymore? It's bad enough we had to give in and utilize the family system to keep up, even if it is mostly my own characters feeding my own characters rep. No way I can pull that off with a guild. Even if I could I wouldn't want to; I don't like being forced into things to keep my character average.

[JoeTang]

Archers and NLs don't lose out on anything. Accuracy was a joke at this point anyway, and ranged classes still get more out of criticals than other classes do because ranged classes fire a lot more hits in a smaller amount of time than every other class.

You obviously don't know how distributivity works.

[Dusk]

Isaac, Archers crit for 1.35x to 1.8x damage. Critical hits will still be very noticeably stronger. Classes should be distinct in playstyle, not dumb quirks in how their damage shows up.

Edit: I don't think criticals of 3x damage are justified in a game where critical rates can reach 100%. Maybe if skills added crit rates in intervals of like 3%-5%, rather than 20-40%.

[IsaacGS]

I don't mean to be complaining here, I honestly want to know: Why should any ranged class look forward to Big Bang?

(and critical rates couldn't reach 100% until recently with the potential equips - And I hate potential too, but that's a whole other rant.)

[Fiel]

Are you forgetting that Hurricane works with FA and that the FA arrow has a chance to crit as well?
Are you forgetting that Hurricane was boosted to 200% on top of your already better damage formula?
Are you forgetting that Sharp Eyes and Bow Expert raise maximum and critical minimum damage, respectively?
Are you forgetting that Bowmasters also get an HP boosting skill?
Have you considered how Counter Attack might affect your class?

[Dusk]

Your mobbing ability won't be piss poor, you won't have to deal with minimum range, your overall damage goes up, and you'll have enough HP to actually take a hit from things.

[Manu]

I don't mean to be complaining here, I honestly want to know: Why should any ranged class look forward to Big Bang?

(and critical rates couldn't reach 100% until recently with the potential equips - And I hate potential too, but that's a whole other rant.)

You could look for big bang because you will get stronger, just that everyone else will be around your level too, just face it, archers and nightlords have been on the top for 5 or 6 years, now they will become stronger than they are, but since they won't be stronger than the others, they get mad.

[Takebacker]

You obviously don't know how distributivity works.

How do i know how something works without knowing what it is?

[Dusk]

How do i know how something works without knowing what it is?

If class A hits 50k damage 200 times per minute and class B hits 20k damage 500 times per minute, both classes do the same amount of damage. A multiplicative damage increase doesn't favor either class. Class B can hit more crits per minute, but Class B isn't getting as much damage per crit.

[Hanabira.Kage]

Are you forgetting that Hurricane works with FA and that the FA arrow has a chance to crit as well?
Are you forgetting that Hurricane was boosted to 200% on top of your already better damage formula?
Are you forgetting that Sharp Eyes and Bow Expert raise maximum and critical minimum damage, respectively?
Are you forgetting that Bowmasters also get an HP boosting skill?
Have you considered how Counter Attack might affect your class?

Isn't Counter Attack a Pirate skill? I'm pretty sure the BM skill is Vengeance.

[Chameleonic]

Are you forgetting that Bowmasters also get an HP boosting skill?

I though only Warriors got the HP boosting skill. I was also under the impression that ranged chars got no increase in HP from the videos and what others have said about the BB patch.

[Hanabira.Kage]

I though only Warriors got the HP boosting skill. I was also under the impression that ranged chars got no increase in HP from the videos and what others have said about the BB patch.

Warriors and Infighters get HP Increase.

Both Bandits and Assassins get Shadow Resistance, which provides resistance against some stuff (I forgot again...I think one of them was a chance to avoid status effects) and a % HP increase.

I don't recall Archers getting anything of the like though...lolDodge is a Shadow Shifter that makes your next attack a 100% Critical; nothing to do with HP.

[Alloy]

Warriors and Infighters get HP Increase.

Both Bandits and Assassins get Shadow Resistance, which provides resistance against some stuff (I forgot again...I think one of them was a chance to avoid status effects) and a % HP increase.

I don't recall Archers getting anything of the like though...lolDodge is a Shadow Shifter that makes your next attack a 100% Critical; nothing to do with HP.

Archers have a similar hp increase like shadow resistance... In fact, it's exactly 10% hp too. So we are even here. We get shadow shifter, and you get something less effective at dodging, but that grants criticals from time to time.

BUT WE DIGRESS! This is about guild skills!

It's going to be interesting when the whole guild goes to a boss run, and they activate all buffs.

[larmie]

if the 10+ mil is only for the initial buying of the skill then it's not a problem. the renew price is defintely reasonable. I'm happy seeing this :) 100 guild members + 1mil each = all guild skills?

It's somewhat expensive for smaller, newer servers but way too cheap for the oldest ones. The difference between the Sakura and Kaede servers in JMS and the newest ones of total in-server meso is about 5:1. 100 million Sakura mesos is about 30 dollars so it's 150 dollars for a new server. If a guild has ten members, Sakura guild members fork up mere three dollars while the new server guild members pay fifteen each. This would make it harder for the new server players to get these buffs. Nexon should start to realize unless they make very expensive items like mounts and 4th job advancement items cheaper in new servers, new servers will have a relative disadvantage over the old.

[zesdac]

I have got 2 questions about the last guild skill :

1.How many potions for support can be received for each member on Monday from level1 to level 10 ?

2.Will each member receive 3 kinds of potions randomly like the web page as followed described??? G potion (heals 100% HP and MP) from Deia or Moon Crystal Power (gives +10 Weapon Attack and +10 Accuracy for 15 minutes) or Moon Light Magic (gives +10 Magic Attack and +10 Speed for 15 minutes)
http://spadow.wordpress.com/2010/08/...skill-changes/

In my opinion, the extendprices are too good to be true. For instance, you just need 700 thousand mesos to re-activate the exp-increasing skill and it applies to all guild members for an hour, it is a price that each everyone in Maple Story Taiwan(TMS) might consider not a big deal at all , I think they probably might merely be the prices for KMST version.

[Eyon]

Have you considered how Counter Attack might affect your class?

i have a question about the new counter attack/vengeance skill!

Does ANYBODY know what it does how it works vids, pictures or whut ever!!

I am becoming bowmaster within time and then the Big Bang will be out, I read the skill description and the effects, but I like to see a animation or SOMETHING what indicates me what it is...