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Thread: [Bowman] [RED] Archer Skill Builds

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    They don't even take that many hits to kill by the time you're actually level 105 now. You shouldn't really be training on any monster more than 5 levels higher than you post-BB. It doesn't take 6-8 hits to kill a Newtie at level 140.

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    I was thinking about this, so does the guaranteed crit apply after all misses, or just those explicitly caused by Dodge? Like, you can tell which hits were missed because of Shadow Shifter vs regular misses, and increased avoid or decreased mob accuracy wouldn't affect the activation rate of Dodge, would it?

    Well, assuming Dodge is like Shadow Shifter rather than a passive increase in avoid.

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    so as a 4th job bowmaster, could we basically skip out on points of strafe and put them into thrust since Hurricane >> strafe? Assuming you don't want to scroll for speed stuffs or don't already have speed stuffs (like me :D)

    with SE first for the no brainer, should one max out the damage piercing skill + some hurricane and mastery with 1 point into dragon pulse, phoenix, and vengeance?

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    I don't think SE first is such a no brainer now.

    Vanilla 4th job crit bonus: 45% chance to crit for 1.2x-1.5x (average 1.35x) = 115.75% average damage
    Max SE: 65% chance to crit for 1.2x-1.8x (average 1.5x) = 132.5% average damage

    132.5/115.75 = 1.147. SE boosts your overall damage by less than 15%. It doesn't boost anyone's damage by much more than that, either.

    (not counting crit ring/other weapon bonuses, not that it makes a large difference)
    Classes without crit: 10.6% damage increase
    NLs: 16.0% damage increase
    Corsairs/Buccs: 13.4% damage increase
    ...you get the idea. Compare these boosts to the 53% (56.25% with crit ring) damage increase NLs get from SE right now, or the 65.7% damage increase archers get from SE right now.

    I would work on Hurricane or maybe Expertise first. You could put SE to level 10 or something just to have a small buff with an acceptable timer, but putting 30 points into it before working on anything else is dumb.

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    unfortunately, the sad reality will be the fact that 99% of maple will be ill-informed and be "LOL u has only level 10 SE NUB NUBNUB No party 4 you LOLOLOLOL". Seeing as i need a bossing character for monies, i think i'll stick with teh max SE so i can appeal to the fools >.>

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    I had thought I'd said something about this in there somewhere, but I guess I left it out. My 4th job area is very vague since I haven't even had any 3rd job experience yet, it's fairly difficult to tell at all how 4th job will go, especially since I don't yet know about the availability of skill books. For sheer damage output, Expertise is always superior to SE in any combination I believe. SE should come after unless you can find a suitable single target training area. Ultimate Strafe is much more accessible than maxed Hurricane though in this regard, so I think this opens up areas for Marksmen more simply. Though it's very marginal, after maxed Expertise, Maple Warrior gives almost the same damage increase as Sharp Eyes, though a bit lower. It may be a viable option depending on the availability of books. For example, 15 SE 15 MW gives better damage than 30 SE 0MW or 0SE 30MW.

    In terms of Dodge, it's most likely only activated with the Dodge effect, i.e. 20% of the time, but one can hope.

    For Mortal Blow, I geared the build towards my own experience and expected damage output. I don't foresee myself being able to 4HKO Roids. 5HKO seems like a stretch, and even if I could do it to them, the monsters afterwards might pose an issue to achieve the same ratio. If you can easily say that you'll have a 2400 average at 88, and 3600 average range at 98 etc (or 2900 and 4300 minimum respectively if you want to guarantee you'll always at least 4HKO), then Mortal Blow isn't for you.

    As far as what I've currently played out, my friend and I both seemingly agree that after about 4 Soul Arrow and 12 Booster, PKB should be started towards maxing. As awesome as having no minimum range is, it doesn't mean pomegranate if monsters spawn on top of you or run into you and you can't KB them away because they either run behind you, the platform ends, there's a wall, and any number of zoning issues that PKB would eliminate. There's so many scenarios where I wish my PKB were higher level so I could push the two monsters in front of me so I can 2HKO a mob of six instead of 2HKO a mob of four and then 2HKO another mob of two. I'm going to add another tidbit for Arrow Blow right now as well though.

    Arrow Blow has what I would like to say a stupid targeting mechanism. It is a mob skill with an area of effect, it is more similar to Arrow Bomb than Iron Arrow. The first arrow that is shot will seek the nearest available target. First, the target must be within normal shooting range, and within normal arrow curving angles. Arrow Blow will seek the nearest monster that fulfills these conditions regardless of whether or not terrain blocks it. Therefore, if a monster is beneath you with a platform blocking but is closer than a clear shot to a monster in front, Arrow Blow will fail. It will attempt to hit the nearest monster despite being blocked by terrain; however, the arrow that is shot will not explicitly try. The arrow therefore will miss, and appear to continue to go forward, hitting absolutely nothing despite another viable target is within range. Should the first shot of Arrow Blow successfully achieve its mark though, determined when the skill is activated, Arrow Blow will also seek up to two other targets, allowing it to hit three monsters. These two other targets are based on the area of effect around the original target, and can be hit regardless of terrain, converse to the original arrow.




    Ignore my pomegranatety timing (i.e. I let it hit me =[). Had to get a bunch of tries cause it kept not knocking back or the shot was bad (i.e. I actually took damage), whatever. To me this feels a lot faster and more efficient in terms of the actual monster's movement than pre-Big Bang. The actual action speed for PKB is the same as every other attack, but there's a delay that prevents you from constantly spamming it.

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    Once people start getting SE and noticing how little their damage actually goes up, they'll change their minds. NLs, Archers, and Arans KNOW what the power of pre-BB SE feels like, so of course they want max if at all possible. My Corsair currently gets about a 9.6% damage increase from SE and I barely even notice it. It's a lot different when SE makes you go from 3 hitting Newties to 2 hitting them than it is when SE makes your HH solo time go from like 25 seconds to 24.

    ...On the other hand, you have some people begging for SE in parties that don't even have any of those classes, so I guess it really depends on who you're playing with. I will say that going SE first will make training a lot slower than going Expertise or Hurricane/Ulti Strafe first, since SE also affects your own damage greatly.

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    But that's why I'm level 139 :D SO i can max SE and toss 9 levels of points around. I'm just using it as a boss character anyway, since i do get on zruns every now and then.

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    After getting some good early third job experience, I can definitely say the first point into Blizzard and Inferno are the best choice, followed by Arrow Rain/Eruption. Blizzard finds good use on mobs, despite doing lower base damage than Iron Arrow, and not being able to critical, Iron Arrow's damage reduction proves to inhibit its reliability. I was finding myself 3HKOing the last two or three mobs in a trail with Iron Arrow despite 2HKOing the first, and 3HKOing constantly with Blizzard, but freezing at the same time. Thus, I ended up taking the same time killing most mobs that were closely packed enough, but also being able to hit monsters behind me if something was point blank, as well as hitting this up slopes with the curving and AoE. Arrow Eruption has use at level 1 despite being weaker and hitting fewer targets than Iron Arrow or Blizzard; it does have similar hits to kill as Blizzard though, and the ability to hit targets on both sides of you without having to lure and turn is invaluable.

    After going around a bit, I've found good training in a Dark Sand Dwarf + Sand Mole map; the Dark Sand Dwarves are weak to ice, which really rewards you for freezing if you decide to, and opt to use it to hit more distant targets that Eruption can't reach.
    I added the one point into Dodge like my build outlines to see if it is a good idea; misses are very rare now. Despite having so much DEX, there really isn't a lot of avoid at all. I've done a few tries, and from what I can conclude, mob skills don't get a significant if any bonus from Dodge, though I've seen my Double Shot hit double criticals every time a monster missed me. Could be a fluke though, and I'll retest when I max Arrow Eruption and have a point for Strafe despite it being weak and pomegranatety at level 1. I have 1 Strafe and 3 Dodge; it is obscenely hard to get a monster to miss on me, I'd have to go back to Victoria or something =[

    With the trend, I may be agreeing that Mortal Blow is fairly useless. Despite being completely unfunded using clean, crappy gear, I'm not hitting weak enough for it to be potentially useful. It may change as I move up to higher monsters and not have better gear to match them though; Mortal Blow has a new unique animation that explicity shows you that it's activated. I think it may activate despite accuracy, which can be a bonus. Perhaps there is something about it I'm not seeing though. I'm tempted to say I've seen it OHKO full/high hp monsters, but I honestly don't pay enough attention to things I'm shooting.I see it really often despite being a 5% activation @ 15% HP?
    Last edited by JoeTang; 2010-08-19 at 11:36 PM.

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    Another question: Is Ultimate Strafe a new skill that replaces Strafe, or does it simply buff Strafe to fire more arrows? If it's the former, then I'm assuming it doesn't work with Final Attack (I recall seeing a chart that confirmed FA worked with Strafe and Hurricane but not Ultimate Strafe). Not only that, but it doesn't get that sexy new Strafe animation.

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    Ulti strafe is like an outlaw's burst fire. it works with final attack, but only shoots 1 extra arrow because it's considered 1 attack (i.e. ulti's 6 arrows = 1 attack; hurricane's arrows 1arrow = 1 attack)

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    Small update to third job. I've personally gone with maxed Blizzard and honestly, I don't think it matters. I do anywhere between 4~6HKO if I'm unlucky at mobs my level with Eruption (which does the same damage as Double Shot on single target, which is stronger than Strafe; only difference is Final Attack). Mortal Blow seems like just as marginal a boost in training as Blizzard is. This may change when I attempt Gobies and see if that's any good or not, but right now, 30 Eruption + 10 Dodge is all you need. Inferno is a different story and would be heavily applicable in training since it does so much more damage than Rain. Added more information with Dodge. It's really difficult to judge whether or not I really am dodging 20% of hits thrown at me. Just makes me feel like 20% isn't a whole lot. As far as I can tell, every miss guarantees that the next monster you hit is critical'ed; i.e. all Strafe's hits are criticals. Final Attack behaves normally. Mob skills only guarantee the critical on the first monster. Everything else is normal. Blizzard can't critical. I believe you won't lose your guaranteed critical unless you leave the map or something like that. i.e. you can have a monster miss on you, let it hit you a bunch more times and your next hit will still be a critical, but you can't let a monster miss you twice and expect the next two hits to be criticals. Only the one. As far as I've tested anyways. It's expensive when monsters hit you ~500 HP and you're too lazy to go back to Victoria.

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    Goddammit.

    This Big Bang thing is tempting me. Marksmen become even more awesome than they already were.

    God damn it all.

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    (Sorry Joe I missed your thread) I'll merge my thread (http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=33577) here.

    I disagree with the OP on first job skill; bowmasters have bomb shot and marksmen have ice shot too which does more damage to more mobs with the same range. I'll have to recommend double shot. Other than that:

    1. Do frostprey freeze enemies?
    2. Do we need power knockback?
    3. How does mortal blow work? Do we need it?

    If the answer to all three is "yes" then I agree with your second and third job builds.

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    frostprey freezes
    no minimum range means power knockback isn't a necessity unless you don't like tanking damage
    Mortal blow works passively as in: each shot has a 10%(?) chance to OHKO when monster is below a certain HP point (30% i believe).

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    So the choice is between max power knockback and max thrust. I have 139% movement right now so 5 points in thrust should be enough. brbdoublechecking

  17. Neon Atom
    IGN: FluffyFoxxie
    Server: Bera
    Level: 18X
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    Guild: RedShift
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    For MM: I would recommend completely skipping PKB, and only putting 15 into eagle. I think that about covers all SP deficiencies? :)

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    There's 121 SP in 2nd job and only 120 SP to max all 2nd job skills.

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    Power Knockback is pretty nice since it pushes back bosses. Don't know if this is the case with kMS, but it's like that in gMS.

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    You're missing 22 SP in Fourth Job to max everything. I would cut 4 points from Hero's Awakening obviously, 9 from Frostprey, and most likely another 9 from Blind. If you have +skill gear, I would cut more from Frostprey to make it only reach 21, since its damage isn't significant, and even the freeze time could be considered useless when you reach the levels where this decision matters.

    Blizzard along with Arrow Eruption are your main training skills. There should be absolutely no reason to cut points from Blizzard, because a Sniper can max everything except for 15 Eagle and 6 Thrust. If you want to cut points from Third Job into other skills, take them from Mortal Blow. Cutting points out of Blizzard is the equivalent of cutting points out of Avenger or Band of Thieves because they reach max targets at a certain level.

    The only reason you should get Double Shot is if you plan to "boss" before Third Job. The only reasonable place for this is Balrog PQ. Otherwise, if you want to level, get Arrow Blow because it basically makes first job 3x faster, and actually helps in second job unlike Double Shot. By the time you're high enough level to be deciding points into Power Knock-back or not, Double Shot and Arrow Blow have probably become useless. It doesn't matter where you put those points into, but Power Knock-back is the least useless option. I have maxed Double Shot. I used my level 2 Arrow Blow more. Trust me, Double Shot sucks, and I've thoroughly outlined why in the OP. I highly doubt it'd even make a significant difference at Balrog PQ unless you and your party are horribly weak.



    I think you're all misunderstanding something because I otherwise can't come to the conclusion as to why you're comparing maxing Thrust and Eagle vs. Power Knock-back.
    Skill points are not forwards compatible. i.e. you can't skip Power Knock-back and spend those points into Thrust and Eagle because Power Knock-back is a Second Job skill, and Thrust and Golden Eagle are Third Job skills.

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