Brothers Come join my 60 coin quest crusade

[fubs0]

by commenting on nexon's forum that you demand answer is YOUR way to help
http://maplestory.nexon.net/Communit...d-5-%28revised

Full story:
At the release of the champion quest a quest named sporty party is released along with it. Sporty party gave each character above level 10 60 home coming coins. Some players saw the possibility of gaining lots of clean slate/AEE through the use of remaking characters to receive rewards and didn't think too much about it because they have done similar things in the past with the creation of jett and aran.
The next day Nexon hell banned almost everyone who were remaking characters to farm rewards, everyone were confused as to what was going on and couple wars have started on forums debating the topics. And Tyler (volunteer for nexon) gave us answers that Hell ban was just to allow time for them to remove items created from mistakes and NOT to punish anyone and most likely no one will be banned. A week after the hell ban Hime (forum moderator for nexon) gave out information that people have been released from hell ban, but some are perm banned because they farmed too much. Now a new war begins.

The two main questions are:
"Did players who created characters to farm the coins from this event violate anything within the ToS?"
"Is it just to ban said players?"

The argument is split up into "for" and "against" a ban. The main players, in my opinion, that have stated their opinions on the matter are shown below.

For:
Sarcastro
CommonSensei
dasandro
Psychicpillow

Against:
fubs100000000 (me)
Bulbasaur

Assume P is for premise and C is for conclusion.
Arguments For:
P. The event was a glitch, because Nexon removed it.
P. Said players abused the glitch and violated the ToS.
C. Said players deserve to be banned.

P. The event was an "error in design".
P. Said players abused the "error in design" and violated the ToS.
C. Said players deserve to be banned.

This is their strongest argument, basically nexon can do anything it feels like
P: There was something wrong with the 60 coins event Shown in retrospect by Nexon's action to amend the event
P: Any person should've foreseen something wrong with the 60 coins event Premise subject to judgment from Nexon
P: Repetitively creating characters for the purpose of benefiting from an aspect in which something is wrong is abuse
P: An individual who commits abuse of the service is subject to a ban, in line with section 10.1 of the Nexon Terms of Use.
P: 60 coin abusers were individuals that committed an abuse
C: 60 coin abusers are subject to a ban, in line with section 10.1 of the Nexon Terms of Use.

However it doesn't give me a good impression of Nexon as a company because they:
1. Shift the responsibility of their mistake towards the players, i.e. "players should have foresaw the oddity".
2. Rely on an assumption that players did foresee the oddity and then ban them.
3. Not justifying with the ToS and simply using the power they have in this situation.
And Nexon has not clarified if their action is justified under section 10.1 of the ToS


Arguments Against:
P. The event was not a glitch, as there is no evidence supporting it.
P. Said players therefore did not abuse any glitches related to the event and therefore have not violate the ToS.
C. Said players do not deserve to be banned.

P. The event was not an "error in design" but a "poor design".
P. Said players therefore did not violate the "error in design" rule stated in the ToS.
C. Said players do not deserve to be banned.

P. Because there is no evidence supporting the event being a glitch, players could not have possibly known or guessed that the event could have been a glitch, if it were to be one.
P. Said players acted in a way they thought was in accordance with the ToS.
C. Said players do not deserve to be banned.

P. Nexon did nothing to the players who used similar methods to benefit from past events (e.g. 50% scroll for Arans or jett renegade coin farm).
P. Because nothing was stated in the ToS that one couldn't create characters to benefit from events, with the addition of the fact that Nexon did nothing to the accounts that did, said players assumed they violated no rules and that Nexon was okay with said players creating characters.
C. Said players do not deserve to be banned.

As you can see, the arguments I've presented for and against is somewhat biased because I'm in the "against" side.
However I want to stress that the players "for" the ban (Due to popular demand and player continue failing to read this line) HAVE NOT, to date, provided game play evidence that the event was a glitch, or any confirmation from Nexon how it was a glitch. I also want to stress that the event being an "error in design" has already been refuted with examples I've given in past threads, and not one of those refutations have been addressed by the said "for" players.

Long story short:
Nexon banned players who are not in violation with the term of service

What you can do to help:
I have presented some questions for nexon to answer and so far they refused to answer them and the thread was locked or attacked by trolls, all I am asking is for is players to create account on nexon's forum and comment on the link I have provided below saying that you demand answers to make Nexon answer these questions
http://maplestory.nexon.net/Communit...%23post4839772

the questions will be the following
is nexon ok with remaking character grab reward rinse and repeat?
Can nexon suggest ways in which we can identify unintended issues?
Is nexon's action currently written within the ToS ? If yes where, If no is it going to be in the ToS?
when the issue was abused multiple times, how does it suddenly prove that players is doing it intentionally knowing it being an unintended issue?

again by commenting on nexon's forum that you demand answer is YOUR way to help
http://maplestory.nexon.net/Communit...%23post4839772

[MissingLink]

Made a post, probably not what you were hoping for, but oh well. Hope I don't get banned.
Hard to get anywhere on that forum. You never know if anyone from Nexon is actually paying attention, since they rarely comment.
Always a battle against a chorus of fan boys for whom Nexon can do no wrong and who apparently have infinite time on their hands.
Mods lock or move threads arbitrarily, and any thread not posted in continuously gets buried pages down in a few hours.

[KhainiWest]

I posted even though I have no idea what's going on. I like war

[RedRaven16]

Did the event notes say the quest was for carecters made before the patch? If not then they did nothing wrong If it did then it was glitch abuse.

[zantgx]

TLDR:
Don't lie to Nexon, Nexon is Big Brother they know.

[Pactur]

A GM in game told us that the quest was not working as intended and those player were banned for abusing the event but Nexon later retracted and unbanned them since is was hard to assume that it was glitched. There's a lot of speculation regarding those who're still banned since every case can be different, maybe some of them created characters in an automatic way, if you think your ban was unfair your best choice is to make a personalized ticket instead of a crusade.

[fubs0]

Did the event notes say the quest was for carecters made before the patch? If not then they did nothing wrong If it did then it was glitch abuse.

Nothing about the quest was mentioned AT ALL before the patch or when the patch is released. Even till today nothing was mentioned.

Made a post, probably not what you were hoping for, but oh well. Hope I don't get banned.
Hard to get anywhere on that forum. You never know if anyone from Nexon is actually paying attention, since they rarely comment.
Always a battle against a chorus of fan boys for whom Nexon can do no wrong and who apparently have infinite time on their hands.
Mods lock or move threads arbitrarily, and any thread not posted in continuously gets buried pages down in a few hours.

I made 4 attempts to address the problem and mods locked them all. As long as you comment to keep the post within the first or second page for mods to see
at some point in time they will HAVE to notice it.

A GM in game told us that the quest was not working as intended and those player were banned for abusing the event but Nexon later retracted and unbanned them since is was hard to assume that it was glitched. There's a lot of speculation regarding those who're still banned since every case can be different, maybe some of them created characters in an automatic way, if you think your ban was unfair your best choice is to make a personalized ticket instead of a crusade.

If characters is created using a 3rd party program then Nexon should've been specific instead of blaming faults on players who should've seen the oddity.
I did both, I already sended a ticket in since hime replied and a crusade is simply to make nexon know that we are aware of what they did and we are not happy with it.

[KhainiWest]

A GM in game told us that the quest was not working as intended and those player were banned for abusing the event but Nexon later retracted and unbanned them since is was hard to assume that it was glitched. There's a lot of speculation regarding those who're still banned since every case can be different, maybe some of them created characters in an automatic way, if you think your ban was unfair your best choice is to make a personalized ticket instead of a crusade.

Not saying you're lying but why wasnt this announced? It's kind of ridiculous that they have to hide this type of information especially since it would possibly undamage the image. It makes me doubt what the GM was telling you because that seems like an important, necessary announcment lol

[Pactur]

Not saying you're lying but why wasnt this announced? It's kind of ridiculous that they have to hide this type of information especially since it would possibly undamage the image. It makes me doubt what the GM was telling you because that seems like an important, necessary announcment lol

It was ErilexusDEM from GAZED when someone asked casually why his friend was banned and he said it was probably due to exploiting the coin event and explained the rest. And I agree with you, I don't get Nexon secretive about exploits and penalties associated with them but is been that way for as long as I can remember, I guess they just want to minimize complaints while trying to resolve/investigate the matter.

[zantgx]

It was ErilexusDEM from GAZED when someone asked casually why his friend was banned and he said it was probably due to exploiting the coin event and explained the rest. And I agree with you, I don't get Nexon secretive about exploits and penalties associated with them but is been that way for as long as I can remember, I guess they just want to minimize complaints while trying to resolve/investigate the matter.

Nexon could have simply addressed the quest issue by making the 60 coins as a "reward" instead of a "quest".
Or : Nexon could have made the quest requirement for 60 coins at level 30 or 70.
But since Nexon did none of those, I can only expect an Exploit of the highest complexity involving the most technical jargon of sniffing bath salts resulted in its complete removal.

Then again, we can't rule out Nexon's laziness -_-

[Joe]

This was yet another exploit made possible by Nexon's terrible event design/programming. Sure, there have been more obvious ones in the past, where a 3rd party program was used to take advantage of an event. But in my opinion, you have to be pretty... let's go with naive, to think that creating/deleting multiple characters to gain a reward over and over is not an exploit.

I remember I did this a while back to get Iruvata boosters, and my way of justifying it was that Nexon had made it near impossible to get enough of them to forge android gear, and I had gotten scammed a couple times already buying them through drop trade. If I had gotten banned for it, though, I couldn't have complained, because doing it was sketchy at best.

So in summary, I don't blame people for doing this, but I also think when you do these kind of things, you have to know that there's always a chance that Nexon will take action on it. If something is on a gray area, and you don't want to get banned, just don't do it. Simple as that.

[Jamesie]

Though it is Nexon's fault, if it's too good to be true, you probably shouldn't abuse it.

[Nion]

To tell the truth, I would have accepted the 60 coin quest on all my characters but I was too damn lazy.

[SaptaZapta]

To tell the truth, I would have accepted the 60 coin quest on all my characters but I was too damn lazy.

Accepting it on all your characters is fine.
Repeatedly creating new characters, collecting the coins, buying scrolls, storing, and deleting the characters - is not fine.

[Green4Ever]

I say it should stay removed. It's not even that hard to farm coins. You can pretty much just afk on 30 minute intervals and farm 10 coins an hour, 20 on Saturday and Sunday, more if you do that seven-minute quest.

[fubs0]

Though it is Nexon's fault, if it's too good to be true, you probably shouldn't abuse it.

well I farmed a lot of clean slate when jett came out. Jett started with 8 coins + 8 from artifacts = clean slate at average lvl 13.
Nexon was FINE with it and didn't even comment saying that people shouldn't do that.
60 coins only net you a clean slate (I am ignoring AEE because I have too much from other events )which is a bit good to be true but not beyond reach of similar too good to be true stuff like alien map, ginger ale, daily gift, etc.

and people in order to reduce grey areas that exist in game we will need to DEMAND answers from nexon
start demanding by start posting on nexon's forum to demand answers

[MuscleWizard]

is he seriously trying to call for a raid on the nexon forums

[fubs0]

Yes there is too much nexon fan boys on there that I can't fight them off. I NEED MORE MAN POWER

This was yet another exploit made possible by Nexon's terrible event design/programming. Sure, there have been more obvious ones in the past, where a 3rd party program was used to take advantage of an event. But in my opinion, you have to be pretty... let's go with naive, to think that creating/deleting multiple characters to gain a reward over and over is not an exploit.

I remember I did this a while back to get Iruvata boosters, and my way of justifying it was that Nexon had made it near impossible to get enough of them to forge android gear, and I had gotten scammed a couple times already buying them through drop trade. If I had gotten banned for it, though, I couldn't have complained, because doing it was sketchy at best.

So in summary, I don't blame people for doing this, but I also think when you do these kind of things, you have to know that there's always a chance that Nexon will take action on it. If something is on a gray area, and you don't want to get banned, just don't do it. Simple as that.

I view remaking char as something that wasn't encouraged by nexon but wasn't prohibited either like making mules and alternative accounts so it is in fact NOT AN EXPLOIT unless you start to ban people with alternative accounts and discourage people from making mules.
What you did was sketchy at FIRST but wasn't sketchy at all when similar things happen 3+ times and nexon ignores it.

[Stereo]

I view remaking char as something that wasn't encouraged by nexon but wasn't prohibited either like making mules and alternative accounts so it is in fact NOT AN EXPLOIT

It's an event not working the way it was announced, abusing it to get coins is exploitive.

[fubs0]

It's an event not working the way it was announced, abusing it to get coins is exploitive.

what did they announce the event to be? o wait they didn't