Exp Loss on Death calculations

[¬Rob]

Moderator note: Split this off another discussion, I think it deserves its own.

Kinda on topic(@ the cannoneer card at least)

Spoiler

-4%

-7.5%

-2%

And the death

Notice the EXP from the ambition SS and the death SS.
Either they don't work, or they work totally different from what I(we?) was thinking. s:

[Grey]

Notice the EXP from the ambition SS and the death SS.
Either they don't work, or they work totally different from what I(we?) was thinking. s:

Well, Ambition isn't really lose x% less EXP, it changes your EXP loss to x%, on a character with 0 Ambition, it displays -10% EXP, it's not like you don't lose any EXP when you have 0 Ambition, right?, and decreases as you level it.

If we take -7.5% as the base EXP loss, then the other sources of EXP loss reduction can be one of three things, they either subtract directly from the base EXP loss, which isn't the case (or it is, and it's just not working right, but that'd be super OP), they all add together and reduce the base EXP loss by that much, are they're all multiplicative with each other and base EXP.

In the second two cases, you'd lose either 7.5 * [1 - (0.04 + 0.02)] = 7.05% EXP, case 1, or 7.5 * (1 - 0.04) * (1 - 0.02) = 7.056% EXP, case 2. Just by subtracting, you appear to have lost 7.05%, but the precision on the EXP percentages isn't very high.

I don't know the EXP required to level from 183 to 184, but Basil says it's 435,050,483 EXP, and you go from 251,587,858 -> 220,953,090 EXP, so you lost (251,587,858 - 220,953,090)/435,050,483 = 7.042% EXP.

This could be a case of rounding somewhere, whatever it is, we'd need more data to be sure, but also, I think someone already did this, for some reason, either @Takebacker; or @SaptaZapta; comes to mind.

[SaptaZapta]

Kinda on topic(@ the cannoneer card at least)
[spoiler]
-4%
- snip Cannoneer card -
-7.5%
- snip Ambition -
-2%
- snip Monster Life Undead Power -

[spoiler=And the death]
- snip lost 7.05% -

Notice the EXP from the ambition SS and the death SS.
Either they don't work, or they work totally different from what I(we?) was thinking. s:

The Ambition one is reversed. You start out with -10.0% at 0 Ambition, and max out at -5.0% at level 100. It shows what you lose, not what you save.
But even so, your EXP loss sources add up to -8.5%, so you should only be losing 1.5%, not over 7%.

Maybe they're multiplicative somehow?
7.5 * (1 - 0.04 - 0.02) = 7.05


Edit: Ninja'ed, naturally.
And no, I've never done this particular test...
Rob, did you gain any exp between taking the Ambition SS and dying?
Also, can we trouble you to get a B+ Undead and try again? I don't think I have any chars with measurable Ambition that aren't 200.

[¬Rob]

Rob, did you gain any exp between taking the Ambition SS and dying?
Also, can we trouble you to get a B+ Undead and try again? I don't think I have any chars with measurable Ambition that aren't 200.

Nah, the SP isn't even set on it. I could probably go get another B+ undead, yeah. I'll try again in a bit.

Edit: @SaptaZapta;

Spoiler

B+


EXP before (died again with a B rank cause I misunderstood what you requested xD)


EXP after death

Like before, no EXP gained or lost between the SSes.
Highlighted EXP for @iAmFear;.

[SaptaZapta]

Thank you, @¬Rob; for dying for Science

You lost 30298973 EXP, which is 6.975%, or 93% of the 7.5% you should have lost if you only had Ambition.
This seems to indicate that the formula is
Ambition * (1 - CannoneerCard - UndeadPower) => in your case: 7.5 * (1 - 0.04 - 0.03) = 6.975
rather than
Ambition * (1 - CannoneerCard) * (1 - UndeadPower) => 7.5 * .96 * .97 = 6.984

Also, using the correct value of the EXP TNL for 183, gives exactly 7.05% lost with the rank B undead, which is what the top formula gives.

Seems the only thing that really matters if one wants to not lose too much EXP on dying, is Ambition.
The best a Cannoneer card can do is save you half a percent, and Monster Life about another half a percent (0.7% if you get an Ergoth and have no Ambition at all).


LF> volunteers with maxed Ambition (or close to it), to test the hypothesis that the minimum one can lose is 5%. (Someone mentioned it in another thread, but didn't have a link to a proof).

[MissingLink]

Looks like you've mostly figured it out, but I'll copy what I put in another thread anyway as backup:

Never mind, I did some experimenting killing my storage mules.
Seems my base death loss is 5% (thought it was 10%??)
With Undead monster 'exp loss per death -2%', lost 4.9%
With Undead monster and S level Cannon Master card (-4%), lost 4.7%.
So the bonus for Monster life or CM character card is not x% off of the y% you would normally lose, but instead decreases what you would normally lose by x%. Probably wouldn't save a minutes worth of training in most cases.
Neither the undead monster life bonus or the Cannon master card bonus are worth bothering with.
Gosh Nexon, you are sooooooooooooooo generous.

The main remaining mystery to me, is why the base loss appeared to be 5% and not 10%. This was done on a level 5x mule with zero ambition.
Also I got killed on a low level AB recently, and I'm pretty sure I lost no exp, and it was not in a town or at a boss.

Edit: For those who like raw data:
Start 18.62%
Die with CM card and monster life bonus -> 13.92% (4.70% loss)
Die again, no CM card but with ML bonus -> 9.03% (4.89% loss)
Die again, CM card back again -> 4.33% (4.70% loss)

[Takebacker]

So the bonus for Monster life or CM character card is not x% off of the y% you would normally lose, but instead decreases what you would normally lose by x%.

This is how i responded to this question for a while now.

It's not worth going out of your way for but that just falls in line with the context the bonuses are in rather than being really OP. (not like dying can ever be a good thing unless you wait on your cooldowns) Cannoneer card is still good for SS rank if you main it or pirate set eff.

[Justin]

So it's basically only worth stacking if you're at level 230+ or so? Granted, I'd rather just use exp charms and not deal with it at all, nor do I see myself dying too terribly often other than at bosses like Ark/Magnus, but still worth noting I guess.