Old Maplestory Zakum Run

[KMSFan]

damage is very low

[Dusk]

When MS was actually a cooperative game. Damage isn't that low, considering cap was 99999, Skelegons had 80k hp and I see a lot of 30-40k hits in there.

[Mazz]

I raise you:

[Bomber]

When MS was actually a cooperative game. Damage isn't that low, considering cap was 99999, Skelegons had 80k hp and I see a lot of 30-40k hits in there.

There are still a few bosses that require a full team to fight.
Just because some people can solo doesn't mean it isn't require to cooperate. If anything Pink bean, empress, and chaos pink bean require more than just set rules(like old zakum). It actually requires communication, something that real cooperation incorporates.

[FrozNlite]

There are still a few bosses that require a full team to fight.
Just because some people can solo doesn't mean it isn't require to cooperate. If anything Pink bean, empress, and chaos pink bean require more than just set rules(like old zakum). It actually requires communication, something that real cooperation incorporates.

Hahaha you're funny. When @Dusk talks about cooperation, he's referring to coordinating a full squad of 30 of the best players a server had to try and bring down something that any single person a bit over Lv. 100 can solo right now.

Even if one could make an argument that there are bosses that require more than one person (which, aside from CPB, Hard Magnus, and a few others I've seen, is really nothing else), nothing requires more than a full party of 6 these days. Not 30.

Gone are the days of waiting around for 3 hours to find out if you MIGHT get a spot in a POTENTIALLY successful HT run, that required everyone to be on Ventrilo so they could all coordinate between the five parties. And man, do I miss it.

[Bomber]

Hahaha you're funny. When @Dusk talks about cooperation, he's referring to coordinating a full squad of 30 of the best players a server had to try and bring down something that any single person a bit over Lv. 100 can solo right now.

I don't see people fighting zakum at level 100, let alone horntail. That was a big exaggeration.
Also, PB is the last expedition to allow 30 players. Arkarium, Von Leon & empress allow 18 players, while hilla and magnus allow 6.
Why should it take the 30 best? That doesn't sound like much of a difficulty problem, either. That sounds more like a DPS problem, in which case i fail to see how that inquires any extra need for cooperation.. unless you go with people who walk in clueless.

Even if one could make an argument that there are bosses that require more than one person (which, aside from CPB, Hard Magnus, and a few others I've seen, is really nothing else), nothing requires more than a full party of 6 these days. Not 30.

It's been a pretty damn long time since anything required more than a party of 6.
But to be honest, I personally play with a weak guild/alliance that requires me to go with two parties and a half for PB. You can't hold back a power-creep. Dwelling on bosses becoming weaker doesn't mean anything. Keep for the future.
Many players are unable to solo Empress, and many players are unable to *fight hard mode hilla.

Gone are the days of waiting around for 3 hours to find out if you MIGHT get a spot in a POTENTIALLY successful HT run,

How is that in any way something good? That your run potentially wasted 3 hours of your time because people can't fit time-slots? That sounds more frustrating than anything else.

that required everyone to be on Ventrilo so they could all coordinate between the five parties. And man, do I miss it.

A run from yesterday:

You don't think most of these people were strong too? You honestly want to tell me that this wasn't a cooperative effort?
Almost everyone in this run besides the bishop on the right, the other paladin, and shinku were in ventrillo calling things out. It still makes everyone's life easier. I think you've been gone too long.

[CarrionCrow]

-snip-

I don't know if you were around as part of a squad during the old days that FrozNlite and Dusk refer to, but I will guess no since you are missing the concept. Bossing now can never be compared to back then when it comes to the points they are trying to make, for better or for worse. It simply can't be done. This is mostly because of what Nexon turned the game into, but also a result of a change in the playerbase climate, that may or may not be a result of Nexons actions.

[Bomber]

I don't know if you were around as part of a squad during the old days that FrozNlite and Dusk refer to, but I will guess no since you are missing the concept. Bossing now can never be compared to back then when it comes to the points they are trying to make, for better or for worse. It simply can't be done. This is mostly because of what Nexon turned the game into, but also a result of a change in the playerbase climate, that may or may not be a result of Nexons actions.

Then why are they both comparing and putting bad connotations on it?
I know what it was like to an extent. I was never a high enough level to fight PB or horn tail myself(I wasn't even 120 on my paladin when 4th job came out). But I was in guilds who did horn tail runs, zakum runs, cwkpq runs, scarga runs back when it took extensive time, yes. I know what they did. I guess it's not the same, but I'm certainly not in the dark.
I didn't know anyone who could Pink Bean for a long time, though, since broa moved very slowly on that accord.

[FrozNlite]

Then why are they both comparing and putting bad connotations on it?
I know what it was like to an extent. I was never a high enough level to fight PB or horn tail myself(I wasn't even 120 on my paladin when 4th job came out). But I was in guilds who did horn tail runs, zakum runs, cwkpq runs, scarga runs back when it took extensive time, yes. I know what they did. I guess it's not the same, but I'm certainly not in the dark.
I didn't know anyone who could Pink Bean for a long time, though, since broa moved very slowly on that accord.

The point we're trying to make is that all of the elements that made bossing challenging back in the day are now gone, and have been since Big Bang, quite honestly. Technically, MapleStory as a game is not hard, as anyone on this forum will tell you. What made it hard back in the day was the combination of external factors unique to MMOs, things like having to coordinate a 30-person squad of players from around the world, and making sure everyone could perform what and when they needed to, with regards to their computer/internet capabilities and presence on chats like Ventrilo.

Did it SUCK losing a good chunk of your day waiting for other people to log on for an HT run, only to be told, "You know, we are short on DPS with so-and-so missing today, so we're going to take this NL that just logged over you as a LOLFP, sorry," and have NOTHING you could do about it? Absolutely. If you wanted a Horntail Pendant, that was the only way you were getting one if you didn't have billions of mesos lying around (with the note that, of course, that was actually a lot of money back then, unlike today). You couldn't just spend another swath of NX, level another 20 levels in 10 minutes, and all of a sudden solo the damn thing.

But those negatives are what made it a challenge, and ultimately, fun. Exclusivity in the most expensive abstraction in this world, as the ability/price of exclusivity, mixed with a broad dose of publicity, leads to prestige, fame, and status. So yes, did it suck to wait hours on end to maybe get into a Horntail run that was maybe successful? Sure, but the reward of being one of the first players in the server in a successful run, and maybe one of the first of your class in gMS with the coveted pendant, was absolutely worth it.

And fame aside, the negatives like low damage and coordinating so many people made it FUN. Some of the fondest memories I have of the game were entering the second hour of an HT run standing at the base of the dragon, Meteor Showering Wyverns the instant they spawned, and joking with seduce party Bishops about the importance of keeping Mana Reflection on to increase our "GODLY DPS." By working with what we had, and dealing with challenges as they arose (essential people DCing, random deaths in the era of NO WHEELS), we really did have fun staying on our toes and making it all work.

You're right to say that I've been from this game for a long time and don't know everything. I actually didn't know that newer bosses have 18 or 6 person caps, but that only goes to further my point and the emphasis @CarrionCrow provided: the game is nothing like it once was, and will never be that way, due to anything from the potential system and skill changes making anyone so strong they can kill anything in a flash, to a playerbase that, because of these changes, isn't close anymore because they don't need to work with more than a small handful of people at most to accomplish anything.

[Bomber]

The point we're trying to make is that all of the elements that made bossing challenging back in the day are now gone, and have been since Big Bang, quite honestly. Technically, MapleStory as a game is not hard, as anyone on this forum will tell you. What made it hard back in the day was the combination of external factors unique to MMOs, things like having to coordinate a 30-person squad of players from around the world, and making sure everyone could perform what and when they needed to, with regards to their computer/internet capabilities and presence on chats like Ventrilo.

Did it SUCK losing a good chunk of your day waiting for other people to log on for an HT run, only to be told, "You know, we are short on DPS with so-and-so missing today, so we're going to take this NL that just logged over you as a LOLFP, sorry," and have NOTHING you could do about it? Absolutely. If you wanted a Horntail Pendant, that was the only way you were getting one if you didn't have billions of mesos lying around (with the note that, of course, that was actually a lot of money back then, unlike today). You couldn't just spend another swath of NX, level another 20 levels in 10 minutes, and all of a sudden solo the damn thing.

But those negatives are what made it a challenge, and ultimately, fun. Exclusivity in the most expensive abstraction in this world, as the ability/price of exclusivity, mixed with a broad dose of publicity, leads to prestige, fame, and status. So yes, did it suck to wait hours on end to maybe get into a Horntail run that was maybe successful? Sure, but the reward of being one of the first players in the server in a successful run, and maybe one of the first of your class in gMS with the coveted pendant, was absolutely worth it.

And fame aside, the negatives like low damage and coordinating so many people made it FUN. Some of the fondest memories I have of the game were entering the second hour of an HT run standing at the base of the dragon, Meteor Showering Wyverns the instant they spawned, and joking with seduce party Bishops about the importance of keeping Mana Reflection on to increase our "GODLY DPS." By working with what we had, and dealing with challenges as they arose (essential people DCing, random deaths in the era of NO WHEELS), we really did have fun staying on our toes and making it all work.

You're right to say that I've been from this game for a long time and don't know everything. I actually didn't know that newer bosses have 18 or 6 person caps, but that only goes to further my point and the emphasis @CarrionCrow provided: the game is nothing like it once was, and will never be that way, due to anything from the potential system and skill changes making anyone so strong they can kill anything in a flash, to a playerbase that, because of these changes, isn't close anymore because they don't need to work with more than a small handful of people at most to accomplish anything.

I just hope CPB brings back having to coordinate more people. It should be able to allow 30 people, since all chaos monsters seem to allow the same amount to join an expedition as their counterparts.