Is it a good idea for Nexon to make a pre-BB server? Would you care?

While the game has changed badly in some cases, such as the dependance of cash due to potential, some of the differences also depend on you. Idealizing your memories of the old game don't necessarily mean that the game was as good as you remember it. It doesn't help that when you first experience Maple it's all entirely new and interesting, there's so much to learn and to see. If you went back now you would already know everything. There would be nothing new to look forward to. If anything, that might make the old leveling format even slower than it was before.

I understand why you want some old aspects of the game back, but I feel like when you finally get it that it won't be as good as you remember.

Yeah, honestly, the truth be told: While it's true that old school Maple's great, it's not worth reliving. I rather remember it for the nostalgia but if I had to go through that again, oh god.

I for one think it's a great idea, other games have taken similar routes. I'm not really sure what everyone's complaining about. You DON'T have to play; this is not a replacement of new Maplestory, simply an alternative. There is a market out there for something like this, whether Nexon decides to hop on it or not is another story.

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Originally Posted by Patt

I for one think it's a great idea, other games have taken similar routes. I'm not really sure what everyone's complaining about. You DON'T have to play; this is not a replacement of new Maplestory, simply an alternative. There is a market out there for something like this, whether Nexon decides to hop on it or not is another story.

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Complaints are valid because this would take resources from Nexon better spent elswhere.

A handful of people might love this and no life themselves to death forever and ever, but most will burst with nostalgic hype for a few days and then ask themselves what the hell they really thought they'd do with it.
And those that are not veteran players would puke blood all over it because of how grindy and content lacking it is compared to the modern incarnation.

I think the term anticlimatic best describes how this would end up.

Yeah, don't see why people are getting so mad over this, especially with all of the work OP put on this. I mean, if you don't want to play it, that's fine. But I'd gladly try it if it were to come out.

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Originally Posted by Raph589

Yeah, don't see why people are getting so mad over this, especially with all of the work OP put on this. I mean, if you don't want to play it, that's fine. But I'd gladly try it if it were to come out.

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Exactly, you would try it. And nothing more. You'd get bored after a week or two and then go back to the regular server. Great idea and all, but potential aside, old maplestory sucks compared to now. It really does.

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Originally Posted by MountLag

Doesn't EMS have a better version of this already?

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Supreme?
Sort of, it isn't really what this guy is asking for but that's definitely something I'd be interested in. A hardcore server rather than a nostalgia/old version one.

Still waiting for Supreme/whatever jMS did with it in GMS. :f4:

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Originally Posted by CarrionCrow

Complaints are valid because this would take resources from Nexon better spent elswhere.

A handful of people might love this and no life themselves to death forever and ever, but most will burst with nostalgic hype for a few days and then ask themselves what the hell they really thought they'd do with it.
And those that are not veteran players would puke blood all over it because of how grindy and content lacking it is compared to the modern incarnation.

I think the term anticlimatic best describes how this would end up.

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Obviously this type of thing wouldn't be spontaneously launched with no market research from Nexon. If you remember when Runescape lauched their "Old School" service, they released a petition to gauge the support/want for such a service. Depending on how many people signed the petition the level of service from Runescape changed. For example, had the support only been something like 100k users, they would simply launch an older version of the game with no support, updates etc. where as if 700k+ users signed they would support in game moderation and updates for the service. Additionally, the resources needed to run such a service would most likely be negligible for Nexon; the content is already made, the servers already exist or can be rented/purchases for next to nothing considering, and the GM service would literally be the same as any other server.

Like you said, some people would play for nostalgic sake and may quit soon after because they're not used to it anymore, but you also need to consider the plethora of players who no longer play this game because of the aforementioned changes would have the change to play the game again they way they liked it. I believe that user base is great enough to support some form of old school service.

The only thing Old Maple has going for it is nostalgia and nothing more. Minus the horrid potential system, the game's in a better place.

Well. I don't think you would want the WHOLE thing which old MS had. The training was horrendously slow.

Here's what should be done:
- remove potential system and the like
- adjust player's skill % accordingly
- adjust weapon and armor's stats accordingly (I'm not sure if tyrant/RA set would be too OP here?)
- adjust monster's HP accordingly (of course, including bosses)
- adjust bosses' attacks (I'm not sure what you all think, but to me, some of the old bosses had been nerfed too much till there's no more "challenge" left. Example: current horntail. No 1/1 at body, peanut damage. What is the purpose of its seduce then if you can simply tank it without fear? Will only die if you get it like....5 times in a row with no chance to pot? This only leads to I-don't-need-anyone's-else-help mindset)

Good enough? All other contents remain the same as current MS.

Without the potential system rubbish, teamwork aspect of the game should be back just like the old days and the I-must-solo-everything mindset should cease to exist since it would be too difficult.

Nostalgia is such a freaking big deal to people, it clouds their judgement.

The old MS was fu'cking awful. It was fun to spend DAYS for a level? It was fun to do nothing else with your entire life? It fun to tirelessly and mindlessly grind mobs, PQ or otherwise? These things are not fun. You remember them as fun because you had a few good experiences, and they overrode the massive amount of non-good ones in your memory. You remember the times everyone PQ'd with you and you had a good time. I've had those in new MS. New MS didn't prevent those things from being possible.

I'm so absolutely sick of the ridiculous influx of "WE NEED OLD MS BACK!" No, we don't. Old MS was horrible. There were so many problems. The only reason you don't remember them is because of your nostalgia.

New MS isn't without its problems. That doesn't mean Old MS is better.

People are already used to the game the way it is. If they go back and play in a server based off of v.62, they would get bored very quickly due to lack of content and lack of updates.
Look at Project Nostalgia. It only lasted, what, 2 months? I highly doubt this would get much further than that.

Rolling back maplestory is indefinitley not the answer. Maplestory was never ever perfect. Potential has created an unrealistic standard the developers believe players should be at to defeat a boss, not participate, I mean actually defeat it.

So instead of going through the hassle of reviving a memory of maplestory, by stripping it of it's actual credibly improvements, potential should be better managed or even removed. The times you speak of weren't exactly perfect either.

1) White scrolls were a secondary currency
2) Extreme class misbalances, hermits/nightlord having extreme advantages
3) Purely luck based enhancement system
4) Ultimate ksing/Leeching
5) Alter holding

Not to mention you open up all the old hacks created for that specific patch. There is a reason private servers do massvie improvements on the base version, such as adding NX within the game, increasing exp/money, even making the bossses harder.

Your solution is much too shallow for it to be taken with anymore credibility than majority if not all basilmarket oriented petitions.

You should try and understand what people actually want. The vast majority of people would be happier if this game was not as p2w driven as it is now and all new bosses are not modeled after the top 1%. At the very least, it should be strive to become (what @Proxied; calls it) pay2shortcut where you can get ahead in this game using everything in game, it just takes time. But if you want to reach the endpoint quicker, you can use money. However, real life money is not a requirement to actually play and stabilize yourself in the game like it is now.

People would love to be rewarded with hard work, but instead hardwork in this game nets you almost nothing. Dragon Nest is my other main game and its model is great. You work hard and farm, you can gear yourself up and do all the content in the game. If you don't have time, you can spend money to make gold and fund yourself up that way. Maple is basically you have to use large mounts of real money in order to do the content.

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Originally Posted by FangelXIII

While the game has changed badly in some cases, such as the dependance of cash due to potential, some of the differences also depend on you. Idealizing your memories of the old game don't necessarily mean that the game was as good as you remember it. It doesn't help that when you first experience Maple it's all entirely new and interesting, there's so much to learn and to see. If you went back now you would already know everything. There would be nothing new to look forward to. If anything, that might make the old leveling format even slower than it was before.

I understand why you want some old aspects of the game back, but I feel like when you finally get it that it won't be as good as you remember.

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I just want diverse terrain and vast maps. There was a sense of wonder that still exists even today as I look at images of the old maps.

I think equips dropping every minute or even more frequent is kind of ridiculous. You no longer cherish your finds as much as a result.
A crafting system where you can directly work on an equip item and upgrade it to a different, stronger equip, helps the player to feel engaged and more directly involved in the game.

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Originally Posted by Green4Ever

People are already used to the game the way it is. If they go back and play in a server based off of v.62, they would get bored very quickly due to lack of content and lack of updates.
Look at Project Nostalgia. It only lasted, what, 2 months? I highly doubt this would get much further than that.

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It failed because, even despite their efforts, they were just playing old-style in a game that had entirely changed. The fun maps are gone, replaced by the sucky Big Bang maps. No one takes the ships anymore.
No Monster Carnival. No Ariant battle PQ.
no fun.

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Originally Posted by xparasite9

It failed because, even despite their efforts, they were just playing old-style in a game that had entirely changed. The fun maps are gone, replaced by the sucky Big Bang maps. No one takes the ships anymore.
No Monster Carnival. No Ariant battle PQ.
no fun.

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And what exactly makes you think people will actively do them in a v.62 based server? They might try them out for a week or two, sure, but eventually they will get bored of them. The community is not the same as it was back then. You can't bring the old community back by recreating an old server. It won't work.

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Originally Posted by Green4Ever

The community is not the same as it was back then. You can't bring the old community back by recreating an old server. It won't work.

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Well you can't bring them back to a server that still has all the things that drove them away in the first place, now can you?

Old-school Maple is exactly that. It's old school. It doesn't hold up. People have moved on from thinking that that is "ideal", be it quitting Maple or accepting the new Nexon overlords.

Stop living in the past.

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

3) Purely luck based enhancement system

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Actually, I think part of what has messed up Maple Story is the fact that "perfect" because achievable with a 100% certainty, given enough money was thrown at it. WAY back in the day, if you landed 5/7 60%'s on a weapon that started out above average, you got a brofist from fellow players. If you landed 6/7, you were awesome. And if you had a +7, you were pretty godly. And should one of those slots be a 10% scroll and not a 60%? Oh baby. Prices for 8, 9, 10, and 11 attack work gloves were tiered and exponential.

Now? Add +50 attack to an Empress Weapon or better weapon, or...settle for throwing a few event 70%'s and hope for +12 attack or better? There's no middle point where a weapon is finalized at +25 attack or +30 attack or +35 attack. You might have partially-perfected stuff that hits the market when someone quits and wants to play a new class, but it's still basically valued as a "perfect-in-progress" weapon due to the remaining slots, which leaves a pretty big gap between reasonably scrolled and "perfected" stuff.

(Yes, I realize that "perfect" is a bit of a misnomer given that a pinnacle scroll could have given +9 attack to a single slot, and an Incredible Chaos could give as much as +10, as rare and unpredicable as that may be.)
---break, changing gears---

Ultimately, I do see how potential is a problem. And at this point, Maple Story is FAR too invested in the system to get rid of it. You can't completely undermine potential, or else the people who spent thousands of dollars to do millions of damage on each line of attack will be infuriated. ...and given how Maple Story's entire financial system is based on the abuse of them, you can't cut that completely or the entire game will explode.

What the game needs is some sort of scaling and diminishing returns system. Like...I think maybe +100% stat is a reasonable goal for someone who really puts the effort in without spending NX. So, up to +100% stat worth of equip potential is applied at full effect. Then, maybe the next +50% worth of percentage-based stat bonuses are cut in half, then the next +60% to a third, then anything beyond "+210%" is applied at a one-fourth rate. So a character that has +310% Dex now would get...
+100% at full rate
+50% at half, so +25
+60% at a third, so +20
the last 100% at a quarter, so +25
= +175% Dex applied to the character (Xenon would need a different formula though, since they have three main stats.)

And I suppose weapon attack could use some similar scaling too, since Bonus Potential often gives a lot of +attack, plus the huge aforementioned difference between perfected stuff vs using more normal, "chance to fail without the certainty of a shield scroll or no-boom CSS's to save the slot" stuff.

But in the end, such scaling would make it so there is still the ability to improve and get stronger, but the dimished returns makes it so you're not doing 5x more damage than the free player who has really been trying to keep up and found themselves destroyed by the pay2win potential system.

I can't support this because i know its not specifically the content that everyone misses.

Spoiler

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http://i.imgur.com/ZuZ3bbD.png

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Take a look at the comments that actually took the time to go into detail about MS experiences. There's a common thread there.

It isn't about the exp rates and having less classes.

What's really missed is decline of social interaction in the gameplay. People miss when being a competent PQer meant you'd be well liked and appreciated. PQs dumbing down the communication in some cases, making it about the damage, not the social contact. learning about places and interesting things through friends. The ride being that break that brought social players a chance to talk and give a breather between grinds.


I think the biggest thing though was, your worth to the boss runs was based PRIMARILY on your class, and not your damage. You were useful as long as you were you. It was time where you was wanted because you were a Dragon Knight, and that's all that mainly mattered to your success. You didn't need some crazy high damage range, sure it made you better, but it didn't decide success or failure. What mattered was your competence. You still provide haste, you still keep the party alive with heals, and if you were an attacker, being half as strong as a geared attacker wasn't a problem, you just needed to make one more friend to offset the difference. Without that being a problem, you could stick with the friends you liked. You felt closer to your friends and marched on to the next boss run. Damage didn't hold you back, mainly level, and if your level was behind for the boss, it was just a matter of grinding WITH your friends and getting that level in.

But now... if you can't keep up with your friends and your damage isn't up to snuff... you get this feeling that you're holding them back... or maybe they get much stronger and end up joining boss runs with people with the damage ranges needed for success. Suddenly you're drifting apart and finding new people.

That's it right there. I think what most people miss, is when you could put your friends and guildmates first and it still meant making progress in the game, that you didn't have to replace them for success. Back when damage ranges weren't so deciding that removing or replacing them meant faster progress if you had the means. That sitting down and making a new friend could very well mean getting that extra Priest needed for a successful boss run.

Potential and other things greatly contributed to that and its a shame.