Nice try Nexon but Dawnveil does not equal Masteria!

I will admit that seeing some of the classic monsters again did feel a bit nostalgic but that quickly wears off when I notice the garbage # of spawns on most of the maps. I do like how they are trying to get a new sub plot going with the demons or what have you but we already had a bunch of good (slightly outdated) quests to go with a similar forest. If the developers are going to put in maps that are just a couple of platforms then they should at least put warps on all of them.

Compared toe to toe with Masteria, this new area fails in every single category that I can think of. There is nothing that it improves on, NOTHING! I want non messed up Gryphons back, non messed up Elderwraiths back, the Krakien jungle back and Lower Ascent back. NEXON, I demand that you give them back!!

Now could someone please direct me to the place where I can file a complaint?

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Originally Posted by Pikamemnon

I will admit that seeing some of the classic monsters again did feel a bit nostalgic but that quickly wears off when I notice the garbage # of spawns on most of the maps. I do like how they are trying to get a new sub plot going with the demons or what have you but we already had a bunch of good (slightly outdated) quests to go with a similar forest. If the developers are going to put in maps that are just a couple of platforms then they should at least put warps on all of them.

Compared toe to toe with Masteria, this new area fails in every single category that I can think of. There is nothing that it improves on, NOTHING! I want non messed up Gryphons back, non messed up Elderwraiths back, the Krakien jungle back and Lower Ascent back. NEXON, I demand that you give them back!!

Now could someone please direct me to the place where I can file a complaint?

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Yeah.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_iOyO6bsmFn...tebasket_l.jpg

http://www.southperry.net/showthread...eria%20assets.

Isn't it the same?

The drops are worse but the spawn of Elder Wraiths is way better in Labyrinth 4 than it was anywhere in the phantom forest. Really it's just Lower Ascent that was better than the current state, and that only cause it was a bigger map and they had high hp for their level.

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Originally Posted by Words

Isn't it the same?

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I thought about that thread but must have been too blinded by rage at the time..

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Originally Posted by Stereo

The drops are worse but the spawn of Elder Wraiths is way better in Labyrinth 4 than it was anywhere in the phantom forest. Really it's just Lower Ascent that was better than the current state, and that only cause it was a bigger map and they had high hp for their level.

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That is true, there are a few tiny good points but they do not compensate for the overall flaw in logic. The ghost shooting mini game was something different and as Stereo said a few monsters technically got better spawns but wouldn't it have been easier to adjust the already existing places instead?

Granted Gollux needed a place to call home but my largest source of outrage is that most of the area is wasted space. I forget the exact cut offs but Evo world already covers the entire level range that Dawnveil is aimed at. The medal is not any better than what is already available. (an attack scroll would have been better) And what were they thinking with that climb the rope mini game where rocks fall on you?!

The forest labyrinth sounds neat but it was a buggy and laggy mess each of the times I tried to visit. I have nothing against the idea of the area but there does not seem to be any real reason to go there outside of sight seeing or trying to get new equips.

Dawnveil has its problems, yes, but it's part of the Maple World now, as opposed to being some random extra area like Masteria.

So no, simply "updating Masteria" is not an option. and would you even want them too? given what a mess they made of the alien invasion?

Masteria is dead, let it go. I'm sick of people going on about it like it's some magical golden age of maple.

Well I guess we can give some of the blame to the aliens for blowing stuff up but at least their maps served some purpose. (good EXP and good source of Nebulites for a while)

Edit: To be fair the continent is still under development, so I will just classify it as an "acceptable at a bare minimum" area for now.

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Originally Posted by Razmos

I'm sick of people going on about it like it's some magical golden age of maple.

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You mean it wasn't?

I think gollux is one of the best bosses added in a long time, and there are a lot of really nice maps to train on in dawnveil. I could see a number of them being popularized. The quests might be the best example of BS time wasting but they used mini-games to spice it up really nicely.

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Originally Posted by Stereo

The drops are worse but the spawn of Elder Wraiths is way better in Labyrinth 4 than it was anywhere in the phantom forest. Really it's just Lower Ascent that was better than the current state, and that only cause it was a bigger map and they had high hp for their level.

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Oh yeah I kind of neglected the Labyrinth. Regarding Elderwraiths, I seem to remember that there was sort of a good reason for hunting them years ago, whether it was a repeatable quest or some significant drop or something. Are there actually any redeeming qualities to the Labyrinth 4 Elderwraiths, or are they just yet another mob that is just kind of there and drops useless ETCs?

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Originally Posted by xparasite9

Oh yeah I kind of neglected the Labyrinth. Regarding Elderwraiths, I seem to remember that there was sort of a good reason for hunting them years ago, whether it was a repeatable quest or some significant drop or something. Are there actually any redeeming qualities to the Labyrinth 4 Elderwraiths, or are they just yet another mob that is just kind of there and drops useless ETCs?

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Well, it's there, but doesn't drop ETCs.

My only problem with Dawnveil is that it's like a recycling bin for a lot of content in Maple. Not only mobs from Masteria were reused, but mobs from future Perion, Elysium, and so on. If they had added new mobs instead of going the lazy way it would have been a much better area.

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Originally Posted by EngelRod

My only problem with Dawnveil is that it's like a recycling bin for a lot of content in Maple. Not only mobs from Masteria were reused, but mobs from future Perion, Elysium, and so on. If they had added new mobs instead of going the lazy way it would have been a much better area.

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While I somewhat agree with you, I do feel that doing such a thing would create a lot of bloat.
Mob.wz is 1.3 GB at the time of this writing. Assuming that they are actually doing it properly and not creating needless copies of identical data, I'd be kind of okay with them reusing assets.

Though it would be nice if they had the decency to do some palette swapping.

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Originally Posted by xparasite9

Assuming that they are actually doing it properly and not creating needless copies of identical data, I'd be kind of okay with them reusing assets.

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That's pretty much exactly what they do.

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Originally Posted by Grey

That's pretty much exactly what they do.

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Why won't they translate that standard for excellence to the packaging of Sound.wz?

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Originally Posted by xparasite9

Why won't they translate that standard for excellence to the packaging of Sound.wz?

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Probably a different team.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept every mob that was every added at any point in time, and they also likely don't have the sprites separated from the mob itself, so when they have 10 placeholder mobs for some reason, they didn't reuse the same single spritesheet but have 10 in the data, 1 for each placeholder. It's pretty inefficient...but to be fair this is an old game and it likely wasn't a consideration when the game started. They're in too deep to do something about it now, if true. At least, that's what I imagine. They say Hindsight is 20/20 for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Polantaris

Probably a different team.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept every mob that was every added at any point in time, and they also likely don't have the sprites separated from the mob itself, so when they have 10 placeholder mobs for some reason, they didn't reuse the same single spritesheet but have 10 in the data, 1 for each placeholder. It's pretty inefficient...but to be fair this is an old game and it likely wasn't a consideration when the game started. They're in too deep to do something about it now, if true. At least, that's what I imagine. They say Hindsight is 20/20 for a reason.

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Having trouble following that stream of consciousness there. :eek:

At any rate "This is an old game" would be a justification against this kind of inefficiency. You had less to work with then, so you had to run a tighter ship.

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Originally Posted by xparasite9

While I somewhat agree with you, I do feel that doing such a thing would create a lot of bloat.
Mob.wz is 1.3 GB at the time of this writing. Assuming that they are actually doing it properly and not creating needless copies of identical data, I'd be kind of okay with them reusing assets.

Though it would be nice if they had the decency to do some palette swapping.

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Seriously, there's way too much unused stuff in the data. We have KMS's version of the Haunted Mansion, as an example, which we will NEVER get, so I don't get why Nexon doesn't just remove it.

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Originally Posted by xparasite9

Having trouble following that stream of consciousness there. :eek:

At any rate "This is an old game" would be a justification against this kind of inefficiency. You had less to work with then, so you had to run a tighter ship.

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I have absolutely no idea why you couldn't follow my previous post, and your rudeness is pretty uncalled for.

How could you possibly say that the game being old is justification AGAINST inefficiency? It's the complete opposite. When the game is fresh and new you expect there to be less redundancies and less inefficiency because it's a brand new system that a small number of people worked on.

It has been 10 years since Maple was created, probably longer since the first internal Alpha/Beta testing. MANY different people have worked on the same exact project with likely very few redesigns of the core code and core packages, if there were any at all. If you don't need to change it you never look at it, because otherwise you are wasting your time. The end result is that there's a lot of old monster data that no one has touched in months and never will unless it starts causing trouble.

Even when Big Bang was fully released, there was plenty of unused data that was from Maple's stone age, so to speak. To pick a quick example, the first event ever. Those sets of data were not touched, because why would they be? If Programmer 1 from 10 years ago left it in the code, Programmer 1,000 from 2 years ago probably never even saw it, and if they did they assumed it was left in for a reason and ignored it, especially since it is quite likely that Programmer 1 isn't even in the company anymore and didn't leave enough documentation to determine what it was doing in the first place or why it was ever added at all.

As it is we see mobs being added to the Mob.wz that are never used at any point in time, or used for a very single event in the Story for one specific character, something that didn't need an independent mob in the first place. If the story is changed later that mob is not removed, and as such the size of the file continues to grow. As long as that file never ends up causing any bugs, it will never be removed, because that's time wasted adjusting to the removal of that piece from the package. Even if all occurrences that could call upon that mob were already removed in the past, the 30 seconds spent to find the mob in the code and then remove it is an utter waste of time that could be better spent doing other things, at least from a Managerial point of view. That's not even considering the logical errors that could occur that no one notices until they do, should it be removed. Don't fix what's not broken.

If you don't understand my point now, there's nothing I can do to help you.

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Originally Posted by Polantaris

I have absolutely no idea why you couldn't follow my previous post, and your rudeness is pretty uncalled for.

How could you possibly say that the game being old is justification AGAINST inefficiency? It's the complete opposite. When the game is fresh and new you expect there to be less redundancies and less inefficiency because it's a brand new system that a small number of people worked on.

It has been 10 years since Maple was created, probably longer since the first internal Alpha/Beta testing. MANY different people have worked on the same exact project with likely very few redesigns of the core code and core packages, if there were any at all. If you don't need to change it you never look at it, because otherwise you are wasting your time. The end result is that there's a lot of old monster data that no one has touched in months and never will unless it starts causing trouble.

Even when Big Bang was fully released, there was plenty of unused data that was from Maple's stone age, so to speak. To pick a quick example, the first event ever. Those sets of data were not touched, because why would they be? If Programmer 1 from 10 years ago left it in the code, Programmer 1,000 from 2 years ago probably never even saw it, and if they did they assumed it was left in for a reason and ignored it, especially since it is quite likely that Programmer 1 isn't even in the company anymore and didn't leave enough documentation to determine what it was doing in the first place or why it was ever added at all.

As it is we see mobs being added to the Mob.wz that are never used at any point in time, or used for a very single event in the Story for one specific character, something that didn't need an independent mob in the first place. If the story is changed later that mob is not removed, and as such the size of the file continues to grow. As long as that file never ends up causing any bugs, it will never be removed, because that's time wasted adjusting to the removal of that piece from the package. Even if all occurrences that could call upon that mob were already removed in the past, the 30 seconds spent to find the mob in the code and then remove it is an utter waste of time that could be better spent doing other things, at least from a Managerial point of view. That's not even considering the logical errors that could occur that no one notices until they do, should it be removed. Don't fix what's not broken.

If you don't understand my point now, there's nothing I can do to help you.

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Who's being rude now?

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Originally Posted by xparasite9

Who's being rude now?

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You reap what you sow.