Confused about Demon Slayer DPS - Normal att vs Demon Impact (Justice patch)

Taken from JoeTang's Warrior class %/s tables:

Quote:

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- Demon Slash is used if there is not enough Force to do anything else.
- For six or less targets, Demon Impact is used when there is enough Force for it.
- For seven or more targets, Devil Cry is used.

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Using the scenario:
- Using the free lvl120 DS Mace (speed = 5) -> With booster + concentration -> speed = 3
- Having 30% base critical -> 5%(base) +20%(skill) +5%(horns)
- No Advanced Weapon Mastery -> No added minimum critical damage

Normal attack:
- 1st: 1x (100% + 200%) = 300%
- 2nd: 1x (100% + 200%) = 300%
- 3rd: 2x (90% + 200%) = 580%
- 4th: 3x (90% + 200%) = 870%
--> Total = 2050% -> Avg crit (x 1,105 multiplier) => 2265,25%
--> Total time (fast 3) = 1410ms (taken from this thread)
==> Normal att DPS = 2265,25/1,41 = 1606,56% DPS

Demon Impact
- Damage: 5x 240% + 100% critical (x 1,35) = 1620%
- Time: 1470ms (normal 6) = 1194,375ms (fast 3) = 1200ms (fast 3)
- DPS: 1620 / 1,2 = 1350% DPS (With 30% PDR Ignore)

Demon Impact (at Bosses)
- Damage: 5x 240% + 100% critical (x 1,35) + 30% boss dmg (x 1,3) = 2106%
- Time: 1470ms (normal 6) = 1194,375ms (fast 3) = 1200ms (fast 3)
- DPS: 2106 / 1,2 = 1755% DPS (With 30% PDR Ignore)


Question:

Does this mean that Normal attack is stronger against -ALL- monsters (including LHC bosses because they don't have the boss flag for damage increase) except for -real- bosses like Zakum, etc?

Or am I doing something wrong here? o.0

Well you messed up the speed booster+concentrate= -3 in speed

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Originally Posted by yo72

Well you messed up the speed booster+concentrate= -3 in speed

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Oh lol indeed! :+)

Well but that doesn't really change anything to the fact that Demon Impact is -only- stronger at real bosses and it gets outdamaged (just like any other Demon Force skills) by Normal Attack in DPS... o.0

*BUMP* *BUMP* *BUMP* *BUMP* *BUMP* *BUMP* *BUMP* *BUMP* *BUMP* *BUMP*

Updated the speed to speed 2 with the speed 5 lvl120 DS 1H-Mace:

Using the scenario:
- Using the free lvl120 DS Mace (speed = 5) -> With: Booster -2 + Concentration -1 -> speed = 2
- Having 30% base critical -> 5%(base) +20%(skill) +5%(horns)
- No Advanced Weapon Mastery -> No added minimum critical damage

Normal attack:
- 1st: 1x (100% + 200%) = 300%
- 2nd: 1x (100% + 200%) = 300%
- 3rd: 2x (90% + 200%) = 580%
- 4th: 3x (90% + 200%) = 870%
--> Total = 2050% -> Avg crit (x 1,105 multiplier) => 2265,25%
--> Total time (fast 2) = 1290ms (taken from this thread)
==> Normal att DPS = 2265,25/1,29 = 1756,01% DPS

Demon Impact
- Damage: 5x 240% + 100% critical (x 1,35) = 1620%
- Time: 1470ms (normal 6) = 1102,5ms (fast 2) = 1110ms (fast 3)
- DPS: 1620 / 1,11 = 1459,46% DPS (With 30% PDR Ignore)

Demon Impact (at Bosses)
- Damage: 5x 240% + 100% critical (x 1,35) + 30% boss dmg (x 1,3) = 2106%
- Time: 1470ms (normal 6) = 1102,5ms (fast 2) = 1110ms (fast 3)
- DPS: 2106 / 1,11 = 1897,30% DPS (With 30% PDR Ignore)


Question:
So, again, am I correct that Normal attack is stronger then -ANY- attack, unless you use Demon Impact on bosses?

- Normal attack (Normal/Bosses): 1756,01% DPS
- Demon Impact (Normal): 1459,46% DPS
- Demon Impact (Bosses): 1897,30% DPS

Anyone please? I think this is quite relevant, since there are so many Demon Slayers out there...

wat about carrion breath?

You forgot to include Mastery's minimum critical damage. Defense ignore is huge, and there's something else about Demon Slash's damage that they've changed I believe, since I can't hit 300%. If everything was what it is on paper, then it's likely that Demon Slash is better than Impact after the nerf.

Updated to:

- Include the 10% boss damage beginner skill
- Correct critical rate (2nd job only gives +10% critical rate in Justice)
- Include the +15% minimum critical damage from Advanced Mastery
- PDR Ignore -30% from Binding Darkness
- RDR Ignore -15% from Devil Cry if casted
- Added Carrion Breath for comparision

So, using the scenario:
- Using the free lvl120 DS Mace (speed = 5) -> With: Booster -2 + Concentration -1 -> speed = 2
- Having 20% base critical chance -> 5%(base) +10%(skill) +5%(horns)
- Have 35% minimum critical damage, 50% maximum => 1,085 critical multiplier
- Base PDR Ignore -45% (Cry casted+Darkness passive)


Normal attack
- 1st: 1x (100% + 200%) = 300%
- 2nd: 1x (100% + 200%) = 300%
- 3rd: 2x (90% + 200%) = 580%
- 4th: 3x (90% + 200%) = 870%
--> Total = 2050% -> Avg crit (x 1,085 multiplier) => 2224,25%
--> Total time (fast 2) = 1290ms (taken from this thread)
==> Normal att DPS = 2224,25%/1,29 = 1724,22% DPS (45% PDR Ignore)

Normal attack (at Bosses)
- 1st: 1x (100% + 200%) = 300%
- 2nd: 1x (100% + 200%) = 300%
- 3rd: 2x (90% + 200%) = 580%
- 4th: 3x (90% + 200%) = 870%
--> Total = 2050% -> Avg crit (x 1,085 multiplier) + 10% boss dmg (x 1,1) => 2446,675%
--> Total time (fast 2) = 1290ms (taken from this thread)
==> Normal att DPS = 2446,675%/1,29 = 1896,65% DPS (45% PDR Ignore)

Demon Impact
- Damage: 5x 240% + 100% critical (x 1,425) = 1710%
- Time: 1470ms (normal 6) = 1102,5ms (fast 2) = 1110ms (fast 2)
- DPS: 1710 / 1,11 = 1540,54% DPS (With 75% PDR Ignore)

Demon Impact (at Bosses)
- Damage: 5x 240% + 100% critical (x 1,425) + 40% boss dmg (x 1,4) = 2394%
- Time: 1470ms (normal 6) = 1102,5ms (fast 2) = 1110ms (fast 2)
- DPS: 2394 / 1,11 = 2156,76% DPS (With 75% PDR Ignore)

Carrion Breath - DoT Damage only starts when skill ends
- Damage: 4x 140% (+ 115% DoT - 8 sec = +920%) -> Avg crit (x 1,085 multiplier) => 607,6
- Startup Time: 1020ms (normal 6) = 765ms (fast 2) = 780ms (fast 2)
- End Time: 600ms (normal 6) = 450ms (fast 2)
- Time 720ms (normal 6) = 540ms (fast 2)
- Button Down DPS: 607,6 / 0,54 = 1125,19% DPS (Not possible In-Game)
- Only trigger DoT DPS (1x attack): 607,6 + 920 = 1527,6 / 1,77 = 863,05% DPS
- Drain full DF (120/12=10attacks) DPS:
=> 10x 607,6 = 6076% + 920% = 6996%
=> 10x 540 = 5400 + 450 + 780 = 6630ms
==> Total DPS: 1055,20%


Summary:

- Normal attack (Normal): 1724,22% DPS (45% PDR Ignore)
- Normal attack (Bosses): 1896,65% DPS (45% PDR Ignore)

- Demon Impact (Normal): 1540,54% DPS (75% PDR Ignore)
- Demon Impact (Bosses): 2156,76% DPS (75% PDR Ignore)

- Carrion Breath (Normal) - Trigger DoT (Normal/Bosses): 863,05% DPS (Lowers DPS when used)
- Carrion Breath (Normal) - Full DF Use: 10 attacks (Normal/Bosses): 1055,20% DPS (Lowers DPS when used)

All other force skills have lower DPS then Carrion Breath, and even that skill is useless since Normal attack does 1.7x more damage, so yeah... just use Normal attack, unless you're attacking a real boss.

Also: LHC Training monsters have no boss damage flag, so Normal attack is always stronger there.

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Originally Posted by JoeTang

There's something else about Demon Slash's damage that they've changed I believe, since I can't hit 300%.

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Hmmm I don't know about that, but we'll see when Justice comes to gMS. ;)

I have a question ... what skill is the best to use if you hit 999,999 with all of them, soul eater ?

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Originally Posted by DinosaurFood

wat about carrion breath?

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Carrion breath is pretty much 1 of the lamest mob skills that a DS even has. Before and after the revamp the skill just blows, the DPS is horrendous with the DF cost of the skill as well as the DoT being useless since it doesn't work until after you are done spamming and doesn't apply to insult to injury passive. The only times I see it useful at all is when you need to hit mobs under you that you somehow are able to hit due to some abnormal hitbox (like demon impact hitting below you at the top platforms at bw5).

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Originally Posted by rattown

I have a question ... what skill is the best to use if you hit 999,999 with all of them, soul eater ?

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I'd go with soul eater since its the cheapest DF costing skill and easily spammable with nice attack speed. But getting cap damage on soul eater is kinda tough, even your regular attacks do more damage per hit when you're in 4th job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rattown

I have a question ... what skill is the best to use if you hit 999,999 with all of them, soul eater ?

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Normal Attack: 1+1+2+3 = 7 hits - 1290ms (fast 2) = 1290ms => 5,43 hits/sec

Grim Scythe:
=> 3 hits - 360ms (normal 6) = 270ms => 11,11 hits/sec (without startup/end delays)
=> 750ms startup => 570ms
=> 270ms end delay => 210ms
=> 10 attacks (max att per button press) = 2700ms + 570 + 210 = 3480ms
=> 30 hits
==> Grim Scythe: 30/3,48= 8,62 att/sec

Soul Eater (only 100% damage per hit, 999.999 is near impossible per hit):
=> 4 hits - 660ms (normal 6) = 510ms => 7,84 hits/sec (without startup/end delays)

Carrion Breath(only 140% damage per hit, 999.999 is near impossible per hit):
=> 4 hits - 720 (normal 6) = 540ms => 7,41 hits/sec (without startup/end delays)

Summary:
1st job's Grim Scythe is Demon Slayer's most powerful attack if you all hit 999.999's, since it does 8,62 attacks per second, resulting in 8.619.991 damage / second. Mind that Scythe does only 85% damage per hit, so you would need an absurd damage range (633.789 minimum damage range) to reach this (ignoring boss PDR and potential boss% stuff).

If you don't have that absurd damage range, Normal attack is still the strongest with 5.426.351 damage / sec, since Normal attacks does 290% and 300% damage per hit. You will reach this with a minimum damage range of 185.766 (ignoring boss PDR and potential boss% stuff).

From what I've seen in GMS, the bonus damage with thrash stacks additively with focused fury. I assume metamorphisis too, although I cannot test that yet. Include this and you will probably find demon impact outdoes thrash even on normal mobs.