New weapon, which nebulite?

Just bought this for 1.5b in Demethos (got ripped? at least a huge bonus to my old clean PSB, lol)
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...y11/skyski.png
Small image sorry. Stats are: 27 str, 149 atk, 3 enhance, both hammer used, 2 random lines.

So for the actual qustion, which Nebulite should I socket onto this? I have:
[B] 6% Crit
[B] Weapon Attack 2%
[B] Total Damage 4%

Current clean range is 13437-19196 and Crit rate is 50% with Decent SE.

Thanks :]

Depends on your funds. If I had money laying around I'd invest it into a level 100+ weapon simply for the fact it can get 35/40% boss damage.

But if you have no hope of changing weapon, I'd go either for the crit rate % or total damage%. Leaning towards total damage.

i choose d) 15/18% def ignore
>.>

Go for total damage if anything. Ideally you want 20/25% boss, since that weapon can't get 35/40% on legendary, but you don't seem to care.

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Originally Posted by modular

i choose d) 15/18% def ignore
>.>

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Sacrifice. :/

Wouldn't 6% crit rate give better DPS than 4% damage? It should be like a 10%~ overall increase in damage roughly for his given stats + some assumptions.

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Originally Posted by Kaasoljoyyx

Wouldn't 6% crit rate give better DPS than 4% damage? It should be like a 10%~ overall increase in damage roughly for his given stats + some assumptions.

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crit as an overall multiplier is always worth less than the presented value because crits never hit for at least 200% of a regular attack

A little off topic but is that thing really worth 1.5b? If so then what the hell.
(As in thats expensive as hell.)

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Originally Posted by Death

A little off topic but is that thing really worth 1.5b? If so then what the hell.
(As in thats expensive as hell.)

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Mostly cause it's skis I think, they're not that easy to find compared to other weapons (someone was offering 2.5b+ for a 98+ atk clean one on Bera for a couple days, didn't get anything)

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Originally Posted by Stereo

Mostly cause it's skis I think, they're not that easy to find compared to other weapons (someone was offering 2.5b+ for a 98+ atk clean one on Bera for a couple days, didn't get anything)

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This makes me wonder how much my 148 att Heavenly Messenger would have been worth...
I'm still extremely sad its been stolen by xKaitoAran. ;_; (Yes I have proof and he quit so dont give me a warning).

4% TD would be your best damage increase. It wont reflect on your range, but it will give you the largest boost out of all of them.

For most people:
1: 18% Ignore (vs monster with 25%+ PDR, aka anything worth killing nowadays)
2: 4% TD
3: 2% Att/Magic
4: 6% Crit

Granted, classes with PDR ignoring skills such as Sacrifice or Defense break or people with abnormally high %Ignore will benefit less from the 18% Ignore. Also, people with an abnormally high amount of % TD will see less returns from a 4% TD than maybe a 6% Crit.


However, I've never played a DrK so I'm not sure if they always spam Sacrifice during bosses. Wouldn't a skill like Dark Impale benefit from %Ignore, especially during SH training?

Oh snap. Never considered the fact that its not in T4 potential range T-T...
may work towards a Agares in the future, but gonna need way more money to upgrade that. FUUU DEMETHOS.

And I do have a 15% ignore [C], so I don't know if I should use that one. I also have an 18% already socketed on my old item, but afaik theres no way to get that out?

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Originally Posted by modular

crit as an overall multiplier is always worth less than the presented value because crits never hit for at least 200% of a regular attack

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I don't really get what you're saying here. Are you saying "A critical hit cannot hit x2 the damage from your regular non-skill attack?" Even if I think of it that way, I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

My understanding is criticals make your attack do more damage than non-crits. If you increase the rate your criticals occur, you raise your average DPS by a certain amount and can calculate what %damage increase that is by comparing certain values.

Thread where I asked this question before: http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=54541

The incremental damage increase for %total vs. %crit looks like this.
http://i.imgur.com/Uqvsm.png

What this means is that, if you have 0% total damage, then 1% more is equal to 1% more damage (top left). If you have 100% total damage, 1% more is equal to only 0.5% more damage (mid right).

The reason % crit is so much lower is, simply - 100% crit only adds ~35% damage.

In addition, most classes start with some base crit percent - also shifting the value to the right, making more %crit less valuable. It's not as extreme as the %total because it's not adding as much damage at any point. The final data point is 0.26% damage increase from 1% crit, whereas the first is 0.35%.

So when you add 8% crit, you're basically summing 8 sequential points on this plot - eg sum(crit[45 to 52]), and when you add 4% total you're summing 4 sequential points, sum(total[1 to 4]).

Actually doing those two specifics, you get 2.4% damage increase from 8% crit, vs. 4% damage increase from 4% total damage.


If you want the plot for yourself, R code looks something like

Code:

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x = 1:100
total = 1+x/100
difftotal = (total[2:100]-total[1:99])/total[1:99]
crit = 1+.35*x/100
diffcrit = (crit[2:100]-crit[1:99])/crit[1:99]
plot(difftotal*100,type='l',ylim=c(0,1),xlab="Percent bonus",ylab="Incremental improvement from 1% more")
lines(diffcrit*100)

(crit[52]-crit[44])/crit[44]
(total[4]-1)/1

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You can change the .35 in the crit to reflect a particular character's (min+max)/2 crit damage. Default is 120~150% = 135% or 0.35


For the posted numbers (50% crit + 135~165%) with +6% crit Nebulite, the incremental improvement is 2.4% from the crit nebulite. (someone correct me if I'm wrong about Decent SE being 15% max) which is still worse than 4% total damage.

edit: methodology on sums is slightly off. You want (total[b]-total[a])/total[a], of course.

Not questioning your work, but how do you calculate the %increase from gaining 8% crit

45% crit rate: 1.1575 multiplier for damage
52% crit rate: 1.182 multiplier for damage

I understand the rest of it, which helped me a lot with my calculations because I kept making an error where I was making %damage multiplicative when it stacked. For example, if I had 50% total damage and i added 10% total damage to it, I would treat it as 65% damage and not 60% total damage (So a max range of 100 would be 1.5*1.1 instead of 100 * (1+0.5 + 0.1). With that same logic, is the following true?

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%atk and %damage do the same thing in the formula but if you had the following #s

total %atk: 50%
total %damage: 100%

4% atk nebulite would be better than a 4% damage nebulite because the incremental change for each %atk is greater due to the lower base value of 50% atk when compared to the higher base value of 100% damage

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaasoljoyyx

With that same logic, is the following true?

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yes

the point i was making is that crit has an additional multiplier in it of whatever your average crit is... and since that number is always from .35-.65, it makes crit suck hard compared to %total / %attack unless you have near 100% of both crit and %total and max out your crit damage (thanks stereo graph)

Well thanks T_T Gotta rework a lot of #s. Probably not going to bother super maximizing everything unless it involves little effort (e.g. Still gotta calculate gratias ring vs evo ring 3 for my mercedes)

I put [C] 4% Crit on my Ewand 6 because it was what I had at time, seeing more critical hits is fun because it's more flashy. I'll upgrade to a better one once I go back to playing MS and start getting better stuff.