On the Issue of Power Creep and How It Relates to Nexon

Perusing one of the only webcomics I bother to stay on top of anymore, Fanboys, I re-encountered a series I used to enjoy watching after many a school day: Extra Credit. It's basically a series that talks about different elements, characteristics and trends in video games and the pros/cons of them. Well, this is the first episode I've watched in quite some time, and I'm pretty sure there are others that relate to Nexon in some way, but... just check this out (Nexon is NOT mentioned in the video, however):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

I can't help but feel that twinge of remorse for Nexon because they continue to actively choose a game based solely on who has the most powerful equips for a few months or less. I'm not sure I should even clarify and discuss this point since I'm fairly certain most people here will understand and relate. While watching it, I was actually surprised MapleStory wasn't discussed, and not even in the comment section (though, perhaps that's a sign of something else >3>)

Yeah, I don't have much else to say. Just watch the video, and perhaps check out the rest of the series. It's highly educational, informative, and will give you a great amount of wisdom, or, at the very least, something to think about.

EDIT: Seanny posted another good episode of Extra Credits. If you enjoyed the Power Creep one, you'll probably enjoy this one (and others):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

I absolutely love Extra Credits and you're totally right.

This entire episode made me think a lot of Nexon.

I highly recommend this series, they really take a look at games for more than just face value.

Yes, but hasn't this been here before? I'm pretty sure there was a topic exactly like this, or a post that was exactly like it. Also, MapleStory has lately become designed around deliberate power creep to make Nexon more money, and it's working so far. Every new class, gets a ton of new CS bought for it to make it look decent, to power it up, and to speed up the leveling process, so people can get what they want out of it, and then prepare for the next class, and along with it, a nerf to the current class. There are people here, and around other forums/in game, that have complained about these things, yet still continue to purchase NX and play the game on a more than casual basis, so Nexon likely won't be changing their ways anytime soon.

Next, they'll buff the monsters some more, buff the older classes again, etc. and so forth, and then start on yet another race, all while still not really acknowledging how much of their player base is continuously reaching end game, and not having any new high level content, except a simple boss here and there, and some flashy new equips which will only serve to buff us even further beyond the damage cap, than we even need to be.

Wow everything in that video was perfectly said and definitely applies to Maplestory in every way imaginable. Just like they basically said, when a company does this to much they are going to have to sacrifice their longevity and I feel that is exactly what Maplestory is doing. I mean classes can already hit 100mill damage these days now, how much further can you really expand it without players getting totally sick of the game if they already aren't (and you can notice Maplestory has been having some player-base loses here and there lately)

Players stick around in Maplestory because even though most of us knew what Nexon was doing (releasing pay2win items like cubes, shielding wards, among a BUNCH of others I am to lazy to list, as well as making new OP classes/nerfing them in an attempt to somehow combat this power creep) we continue to play because it's still manageable. Yeah so cubes and all those other haxy NX items dramatically altered the game, it was still a game (in my opinion) worth playing if you just play at your own pace. But after seeing something like Angelic Burster videos, for example, soloing Empress in less then 3 minutes it makes you think how much further they can go without losing their entire player base and in a sick twisted way I am almost excited to see Mapelstory completely crash and burn. I know that for a fact as soon as the Angelic Burster patch/Hyper Skills hits Global I will be quitting the Maple scene or at least servers including these patches if you catch my drift. I could tolerate the 'power creep' as they put it going on in the game before but at this point it's just way to ridiculous, I just wish Nexon would realize this.

It kind of brings up the point with one of the biggest beefs I have with F2P MMOs, because when you are unable to get people to voluntarily pay money to support the game via methods such as subscriptions, this is the only real way to get people to throw money at the game. WoW's power creep is far more subtle since it happens per expansion rather than over time, but with Transmog it helps older players keep a sense of value for their gear since you can pretty much make your newer gear look like something older. LoL is something different to say it has power creep since being a PvP style game there's no real way to have blatant power creep since anything OPed gets nerfed later on.

Yu-Gi-Oh, man YGO. I think this is why I've moved onto Magic the Gathering since older cards can still be pretty dang powerful. There' a reason older cards are called "Legacy" cards. In other words each set has it's share of really good cards as well as crap cards, but overall balance isn't as upsetting in comparison to how YGO has now become. I still play YGO for the Six Samurai Deck, but I'm not sure if I can go beyond that when factoring my old old deck took me years to build, and it got beaten by a deck made with barely $40-50 worth of cards.

Extra Credits is a really amazing series. I mean, really. They're episode on "The Heroes Journey" was fantastic.

There's kind of a point in MapleStory, where, even though everything more or less can be done with in-game currency, it becomes increasingly hard to stay a competitive player. Eventually, you just end up as someone who's going to do sub-par damage unless you start springing for cubes and some NX.

Interestingly, the Pokemon TCG has one of the worst examples of Power Creeping in TCG's that I've ever seen. There are so few cards from any of it's many early sets that are usable at this point. Things just keep getting replaced. It's too the point where competitive decks only use cards from the last three or four sets, though this happens in Yu-Gi-Oh! as well. At least YGO has some viable cards from early on. But still, to stay competitive, you have to buy the most expensive cards on the market. Remember Cyber End before it was limited? Ouch.

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Originally Posted by Aircalibur421

Extra Credits is a really amazing series. I mean, really. They're episode on "The Heroes Journey" was fantastic.

There's kind of a point in MapleStory, where, even though everything more or less can be done with in-game currency, it becomes increasingly hard to stay a competitive player. Eventually, you just end up as someone who's going to do sub-par damage unless you start springing for cubes and some NX.

Interestingly, the Pokemon TCG has one of the worst examples of Power Creeping in TCG's that I've ever seen. There are so few cards from any of it's many early sets that are usable at this point. Things just keep getting replaced. It's too the point where competitive decks only use cards from the last three or four sets, though this happens in Yu-Gi-Oh! as well. At least YGO has some viable cards from early on. But still, to stay competitive, you have to buy the most expensive cards on the market. Remember Cyber End before it was limited? Ouch.

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I think you were kinda hinting at it, but the pokemon TCG official tournaments actually don't even ALLOW older deck sets to be used. I can't remember the exact numbers, but I think only the 3 or 4 most recent sets are even allowed to be played with at all. Pretty cheap means of forcing competitive players to buy more cards.

That was an excellent video. Everything they said was could apply to MapleStory. I have to wonder how long Maple will last if it stays on its current path of new OP classes and potential systems.

I like Extra Credits too and shared this to my friends a long time ago :P

Now someone put korean dub over this and send it to nexon korea.

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Originally Posted by fodjgngf

Now someone put korean dub over this and send it to nexon korea.

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hahahha someone should. I watched a few more of the Extra credit videos and they are pretty good and very informative. But yeah the power creep is way to great on this game. And Angelic Buster along with Hyper skills really takes it to a whole nother level.

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Originally Posted by Aircalibur421

Extra Credits is a really amazing series. I mean, really. They're episode on "The Heroes Journey" was fantastic.

There's kind of a point in MapleStory, where, even though everything more or less can be done with in-game currency, it becomes increasingly hard to stay a competitive player. Eventually, you just end up as someone who's going to do sub-par damage unless you start springing for cubes and some NX.

Interestingly, the Pokemon TCG has one of the worst examples of Power Creeping in TCG's that I've ever seen. There are so few cards from any of it's many early sets that are usable at this point. Things just keep getting replaced. It's too the point where competitive decks only use cards from the last three or four sets, though this happens in Yu-Gi-Oh! as well. At least YGO has some viable cards from early on. But still, to stay competitive, you have to buy the most expensive cards on the market. Remember Cyber End before it was limited? Ouch.

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There are several spells and traps that remain usable; Call of the Haunted, Mirror Force, Dark Hole, Heavy Storm and Monster Reborn are the most obvious ones. Although the older monsters tend to lose value over time Konami will sometimes breathe new life into them. Blue Eyes Malefic Dragon is the first thing I can think of. I personally like to plantain around with some of the older Fairies in my Master Hyperion deck with varying degrees of success (this was before the nerf to Agent of Miracles, of course)

Back on topic, I fear MapleStory is on its last legs. People don't even bother to buy things with Mesos or even NX; they prefer PayPal transactions for the best stuff. Meanwhile nothing in this game turns a profit anymore; you know you've pineappleed up when your game's currency becomes worthless.

In maple's case, its less of a power creep and more of a Shia Labeouf-style gets down on all fours and breaks into a Power Sprint.



Man, these guys are great, and very observant of game design. I'll definitely be following more videos of this... Did you guys see the next episode? Cause I feel it hit on something that Maple lost as well

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w&feature=relmfu

Perfect imbalance. Remember how Anego was a 'ranged' boss? While bigfoot favored Melee classes? There really was a reason to level multiple classes back then. Along with Big bang the number of classes exploded... yet in the case of ultimate irony, the game was simplified to the point almost every class could fight everything, all the classes can do what the other classes can do now. Killing the reason to raise multiple classes in the first place.

What's left? minor buff perks... but the metagame now only really has to concern itself with DPS: just find the best melee DPS class and best ranged DPS and you're good. Everyone and their grandma can rush/provide KB/FJ Mob control. DrK's HB and bishop healing is all that remains of PI.

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Originally Posted by Seanny

In maple's case, its less of a power creep and more of a Shia Labeouf-style gets down on all fours and breaks into a Power Sprint.



Man, these guys are great, and very observant of game design. I'll definitely be following more videos of this... Did you guys see the next episode? Cause I feel it hit on something that Maple lost as well

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w&feature=relmfu

Perfect imbalance. Remember how Anego was a 'ranged' boss? While bigfoot favored Melee classes? There really was a reason to level multiple classes back then. Along with Big bang the number of classes exploded... yet in the case of ultimate irony, the game was simplified to the point almost every class could fight everything, all the classes can do what the other classes can do now. Killing the reason to raise multiple classes in the first place.

What's left? minor buff perks... but the metagame now only really has to concern itself with DPS: just find the best melee DPS class and best ranged DPS and you're good. Everyone and their grandma can rush/provide KB/FJ Mob control. DrK's HB and bishop healing is all that remains of PI.

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How are HB and Heal relevant any more? Bowmen, Thieves and Pirates can solo HT easily and bosses like Magnus and Azwan tower are doing % damage for whatever reason. Hilla might too; not sure. People stopped peaching about the loss of decent HB long ago when they remembered they got things like Jolly Roger and Spirit Link and Enveloping Darkness and Meso Guard to make up for it.

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Originally Posted by McAwesomesauce

How are HB and Heal relevant any more? Bowmen, Thieves and Pirates can solo HT easily and bosses like Magnus and Azwan tower are doing % damage for whatever reason. Hilla might too; not sure. People stopped peaching about the loss of decent HB long ago when they remembered they got things like Jolly Roger and Spirit Link and Enveloping Darkness and Meso Guard to make up for it.

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Well, I'm not much of a endgame player. So i'm out of the loop on things like that. Reveals even moreso how PI is dead now.

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Originally Posted by Seanny

What's left? minor buff perks... but the metagame now only really has to concern itself with DPS: just find the best melee DPS class and best ranged DPS and you're good. Everyone and their grandma can rush/provide KB/FJ Mob control. DrK's HB and bishop healing is all that remains of PI.

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I agree with you on most of what you said, but I'd like to also add that this wasn't something just done by Nexon, players are guilty aswell. An example of why are Bowmasters/Marksmen. While BM were meant to be soloers and bossers, weak against mobs and strong against single targets, Marksmen were meant to be best for training, killing mobs. Then players started complaining that they couldn't boss or were a pain in the butt to train, ultimately leading to Nexon giving Marksmen ultimate strafe and bowmasters ultimate inferno. Even today, the moment a marksman feels outdone by a BM, or viseversa, in any area they will complain.

Another reason why Nexon broke the perfect imbalance (or w.e close we were to it) was the creation of more and more classes, leading to them running out of the ideas and making jobs that either do the same stuff others do or do it better.

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Originally Posted by Rotosound

I can't help but feel that twinge of remorse for Nexon because they continue to actively choose a game based solely on who has the most powerful equips for a few months or less. I'm not sure I should even clarify and discuss this point since I'm fairly certain most people here will understand and relate. While watching it, I was actually surprised MapleStory wasn't discussed, and not even in the comment section (though, perhaps that's a sign of something else >3>)

Yeah, I don't have much else to say. Just watch the video, and perhaps check out the rest of the series. It's highly educational, informative, and will give you a great amount of wisdom, or, at the very least, something to think about.

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Except maplestory isn't about who has the best gear during a certain month. Those who were the strongest prepotential and haven't quit along the way are probably still in the top percentage. And you cannot compare PvP to PvE, balancing PvP is 10x easier then PvE. Maplestory doesn't suffer from powercreep, you can still do nearly any boss with prepotential or gear you find. The only bosses you can't do are the ones which you can make a profit on because the only people who kill it spent $1000s on a game. Nexon's problem comes from greed and giving power to those who buy it. You can grind events or merch your way up to the plateau where you can kill bosses for a profit but someone can do what would take you in a year with a paycheck.

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Originally Posted by yo72

Except maplestory isn't about who has the best gear during a certain month. Those who were the strongest prepotential and haven't quit along the way are probably still in the top percentage. And you cannot compare PvP to PvE, balancing PvP is 10x easier then PvE. Maplestory doesn't suffer from powercreep, you can still do nearly any boss with prepotential or gear you find. The only bosses you can't do are the ones which you can make a profit on because the only people who kill it spent $1000s on a game. Nexon's problem comes from greed and giving power to those who buy it. You can grind events or merch your way up to the plateau where you can kill bosses for a profit but someone can do what would take you in a year with a paycheck.

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Are you playing the same game as everyone else here?

Words like "probably" and "top percentage" without statistical data aren't gonna make you go far, kid.

Your fatal flaw is that you are assuming this is only from a perspective of possibility, not plausibility. Yes, you can do all these things without potential (well, ok, some of these things, as you dismissed your own point when talking about bosses); is it what you do? Is it what anyone does? I don't know a single player who still plays Maple like it's pre-BB because everyone's gone with the flow of the game. Why? Because you can't play old Maple since there is no old Maple [that isn't a PS].

You just affirmed the problem of power creep in your final sentence btw, so I really don't understand the point you're trying to make. Perhaps you didn't understand the video or didn't watch it all the way through.

OT: Glad to see some polarizing discussion brewing among you folks, and also very glad to see many of you enjoying the video. I still need to watch that other one Seanny posted; will do in the afternoon.

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Originally Posted by yo72

Except maplestory isn't about who has the best gear during a certain month. Those who were the strongest prepotential and haven't quit along the way are probably still in the top percentage. And you cannot compare PvP to PvE, balancing PvP is 10x easier then PvE. Maplestory doesn't suffer from powercreep, you can still do nearly any boss with prepotential or gear you find. The only bosses you can't do are the ones which you can make a profit on because the only people who kill it spent $1000s on a game. Nexon's problem comes from greed and giving power to those who buy it. You can grind events or merch your way up to the plateau where you can kill bosses for a profit but someone can do what would take you in a year with a paycheck.

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I'm not saying that the top percent from the before time isn't still in the top percent, but honestly? I find it a bit unlikely until I see some pretty substantial evidence.

And sure you can kill most bosses that you can't make a profit on, but are there really many other bosses worth killing in game at this point? Zak and maybe HT you can solo without funds but it's a tough call.

I still feel like there's a point in MapleStory where there is just so little you can do with in-game currency. I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just tedious to the point of ridicule.

Maple doesn't suffer from powercreep?
Making old and existing moves go from "hit X times doing Y damage" to "Hit X+1 times doing Y+1000 damage" is definitely powercreep.

Hell, the video @0:45 -> 0:52 is the very definition of that.