A pot cost system that actually makes sense

[Dusk]

The NLC pots are broken, without a doubt. The ratios don't make sense, and ultimates are way too cheap, making every 4th job mage an unstoppable powerhouse while consumes potions that cost very little (next to what leechers are willing to pay). I'd rather not discuss the ultimates in greater detail here, though, that's a tired argument.

But imagine for a moment what we would do without them. Old school players (well, ones that played Warriors and Mages, unlike me) know what I'm talking about. The only option for pots was Elixirs. 10k Powers and 5k Pinks.

Many of the potions that sit in the NPC shops go practically unused. And with good reason. Reindeer Milk costs well over 5k mesos. Sunset Dews cost over 10k mesos. That's ridiculous. As you level, the damage you take from monsters rises by well over 10 times from level 70 to level 120. Higher level monsters are also more dangerous, and hit you more often, especially if you're a warrior. In comparison, the amount of mesos monsters drop rises by less than 5 times; same with drop NPC values. And then there's boss runs, which consume a ton of potions (and they'd consume more if it wasn't for Apples making every boss a breeze). And while the amount of HP/MP players need to recover is already rising faster than mesos, on top of that, higher level potions cost MORE per point of HP/MP rather than less. This makes absolutely no sense.

Potions are meant to act as a major meso sink. They slow inflation, and together with mounts, travel costs, and whatnot, item values should be relatively low as long as there isn't a ton of hacking going on. They shouldn't cost more than the amount of mesos that can be brought into the economy (without Nexon's stupid Meso bags and pomegranate), though.

So, I propose the entire NPC pot system be revamped:

Potions should cost roughly the same amount for all classes
Potions should have a better HP/meso healing ratio as they go
MP should cost a bit more than HP because mages have MP saving and recovering skills, but not double
Heal values that make sense


Low level pots work fine the way they are, though they should be dropped to 1:1 for HP and something like 1.33:1 or 1.5:1 for MP.

Red potion - 50 hp for 50 mesos
Orange potion - 150 hp for 150 mesos
White potion - 300 hp for 300 mesos
Hot Dog Supreme - 500 hp for 500 mesos

Orange - 50 mp for 66 mesos
Blue potion - 100 mp for 133 mesos
Lemon - 150 mp for 200 mesos
Mana Elixir - 300 mp for 400 mesos

At higher levels, the mesos cost should rise less linearly:

Unagi - 1000 hp for 900 mesos
Ice Cream - 2000 hp for 1700 mesos
Apple Pie* - 3000 hp for 2500 mesos
Melting Cheese - 4000 hp for 3200 mesos

Ranged classes aren't likely to use pots that heal more than that, and melee classes get hit more, so the numbers should scale down further after that:

Reindeer Milk - 5000 hp for 3700 mesos
Lobster Tail* - 8000 hp for 5000 mesos

*I made these up, they seem like reasonable values since there are quite a few monsters/bosses that hit 3k and 8k damage.

And MP pots would follow a similar pattern:
Pure Water - 800 mp for 960 mesos
Sundae - 2000 mp for 2300 mesos
Sunrise Dew - 3000 mp for 3000 mesos
Sunset Dew - 5000 mp for 4500 mesos

HP/MP recovering pots should have better ratios, since they're harder to use efficiently:

Cake - 100/100 for 180 mesos
Watermelon - 1000/1000 for 1800 mesos

And there needs to be more of them.

The numbers need fine tuning, but I really think this makes more sense than what we have now. NLC pots would have to be rebalanced, and World Tour pots - eh, they're a waste of space.

[Morgana]

Without %-based pots, HB would no longer be much of a money-saver...

Also, %-based is the only thing keeping magician pot costs down for bossing. It doesn't really seem fair for bossing to be more expensive for magicians, when we're already automatically worse at it. =/

Also also, add some HP/MP pots that aren't symmetrical. Otherwise higher-leveled magicians have to either waste thousands of HP worth of healing (and therefore mesos, on top of the higher cost of MP), or pot multiple times to take a heavy hit or 1/1 with MG. Trust me, having to pot twice after 1/1 is a REALLY HUGE disadvantage. You can't lag at all or you're dead.

I'm not convinced this wouldn't make third job (particularly Himes with MG [if you lag]) too expensive for priests, either. We take lots of damage and don't get hardly any mesos in return, just EXP.

EDIT: What I'm trying to say is, while I don't agree with your reasons for proposing this system... How would magicians train in 4th job without Ultimates? Major skill revamp (more than the KMST one)? And would more expensive leech really stop the rich kiddies from buying it?... I'm keeping an open mind, as long as you think harder about how Magic Guard works.

[Nikkey]

Only thing we need to do, is to double the price of all %-based NLC-pots.

[Eos]

Only thing we need to do, is to double the price of all %-based NLC-pots.

How would that make the slightest difference?

Mages would still do the same thing they'd just double the prices they charge for leech.

Mages have ultimates. Asking them not to use them is like asking a warrior not to attack things. The versions where they're unusable like KMS are just sad because the ultimates are as worthless as infinity.

The fact the game is currently designed so poorly that only mages have an advantage is not the fault of mages. It's a bias Nexon built in by not releasing sufficient areas to cater to the entire population.

These endless threads trying to "fix" mages just need to die.


MP should cost a bit more than HP because mages have MP saving and recovering skills, but not double


In case you've never looked at a mage before, we have this thing called "Elemental Ampliction" without which, our damage sucks, but with, our damage cost doubles on all skills. That's why our ultimates cost 7000 MP when a bishop only costs 3500. No extra 5 mp per level, no "mp eater" that absorbs 10mp per kill, no "regain 400 mp every 10 seconds" skill, is ever going to offset that.

[Nikkey]

How would that make the slightest difference?

Mages would still do the same thing they'd just double the prices they charge for leech.

Mages have ultimates. Asking them not to use them is like asking a warrior not to attack things. The versions where they're unusable like KMS are just sad because the ultimates are as worthless as infinity.

The fact the game is currently designed so poorly that only mages have an advantage is not the fault of mages. It's a bias Nexon built in by not releasing sufficient areas to cater to the entire population.

These endless threads trying to "fix" mages just need to die.

With the current prices, magicians earn money by training with ultimates. Now, with double the price, they'll lose money. This means paying for leech will remove money, and finally, leeching would not be profitable. In the end, people won't pay for leech. Training the "normal" way would be more efficient money-wise for magicians. For other classes, they won't be hurt much.

[Eos]

With the current prices, magicians earn money by training with ultimates. Now, with double the price, they'll lose money. This means paying for leech will remove money, and finally, leeching would not be profitable. In the end, people won't pay for leech. Training the "normal" way would be more efficient money-wise for magicians. For other classes, they won't be hurt much.

Except magicians have no 4th job skills that do damage comparable to any other class over time.

We don't earn that much either, because every drop we get from leeching tends to go right back into the periods we're soloing. I have to leech 4 hours just to be able to afford 4 hours solo later. That's not a profit.

Potions aren't the problem there.
Changing potion prices won't change leeching either, the KMS experience change, that fixes leeching.

[Dusk]

My reasons for the changes are more to balance the HP pot usage between melee and ranged classes. I'm a little surprised that the major point of discussion became how this affects mages. MP pots were added as an afterthought because I really don't give a pineapple about mages and their ultimates, or the whole argument about leeching, but I wanted to include them.

I do like the asymmetric healing idea; Magic Guard makes potting pretty confusing the way it is now.

I'm wondering what mages do in KMS. Can anyone who has any experience with the matter explain if leeching is common, or if mages train with ultimates at all?

[Eos]

My reasons for the changes are more to balance the HP pot usage between melee and ranged classes. MP pots were added as an afterthought because I really don't give a pineapple about mages and their ultimates.

You might not have been going there, but it's amazing how rapidly a thread degenerates into that, eh?

I'd rather it stay on the actual topic you brought up, than become yet another witch-hunt.

[JoeTang]

From what I've heard, only rich magicians train with ultimates. Otherwise, they Paralyze+FD+Quines or CL+ID+Ifrit most of the time, only using ultimates when there's a large enough mob to justify the cost.

[FelixTM]

From what I've heard, only rich magicians train with ultimates. Otherwise, they Paralyze+FD+Quines or CL+ID+Ifrit most of the time, only using ultimates when there's a large enough mob to justify the cost.

I'm curious where this is happening. Lol All 4th job mages I know, have seen or have heard about use their Ultimate for their training, almost entirely.

[JoeTang]

Oh no, I'm talking about KMS. My information is probably outdated anyways.

[FelixTM]

Oh no, I'm talking about KMS. My information is probably outdated anyways.

Oh, I see. I found what you were replying to in Dusk's post.

Carry on.

[Russt]

Without %-based pots, HB would no longer be much of a money-saver...
Yes they would. With a system like this, more HP/MP = able to use higher pots = better healing ratio.


I'm not convinced this wouldn't make third job (particularly Himes with MG [if you lag]) too expensive for priests, either. We take lots of damage and don't get hardly any mesos in return, just EXP.
I do agree. MG sucks like that.
Just kidding.


Mages have ultimates. Asking them not to use them is like asking a warrior not to attack things. The versions where they're unusable like KMS are just sad because the ultimates are as worthless as infinity.

The fact the game is currently designed so poorly that only mages have an advantage is not the fault of mages. It's a bias Nexon built in by not releasing sufficient areas to cater to the entire population.

These endless threads trying to "fix" mages just need to die.

Except magicians have no 4th job skills that do damage comparable to any other class over time.
Bolded: Precisely why they do need to be fixed.

--

Aaaanyway, not a bad system.
And add a parallel set of HP pots that has a substantially better ratio, but can only heal HP up to a max of 50%. These could be revamped versions of the numerous obsolete World Tour pots. So for example:
Ramen - 1000 hp (to max of 50%) for 700 mesos
Fish Cake - 1600 hp (to max of 50%) for 1100 mesos
Tri-colored Dango - 2400 hp (to max of 50%) for 1600 mesos
and higher and higher up.

Not only are they Zerk-friendly (I only actually realized this while making up numbers), they also provide cheaper potting only to those that can regularly survive hits at sub-50% HP - i.e. warriors.

Perhaps even another set of these that heal both HP and MP in a 1:4 ratio. Mages would be giddy.