Help me evaluate two 4th job classes

[VladTheLvr]

I need help deciding which character I should continue. The characters: xbow and bandit.

Known pros of Shadower

*high avoid
*high acc melee
*multiple skills for multiple situations
*hits lots of numbers
*has meso gaurd for survivability
*jack of all trades

cons of shadower

*total mob skill DPM (non ME) does way less damage than mage ultimate (at lvl 180l; 99K times 15 equals nearly 1 million and a half damage total maximum in 5 seconds)
*same HP as NL
*low single target dpm
*master of none
*defence takes a good majority out of damage for some skills

Marksman pros-

*High target mobbing damage (though still now where near the mage DPM)
*High acc
*Range
*Skills that help you avoid attacks
*Snipe and Pierce can improve the class by alot for training (assuming we get the new skillz update)
*Can solo some bosses at upper levels

Marksman cons-

*Used as SE Mule in upper level bosses
*Pierce has overkill
*Has to be provided HB or be HP washed at Pink Being, HT, and or (Papu, Pianus, cant take hit from spawned monsters if HP below 4K or so)
*Low mobility

Personal Knowledge
Shadower from my experience the shadower can avoid hits and save a considerable amount of money, as well as use MG to increase the maximum damage you can take. However the shadower has some weakness in not being able to be important enough in party bosses, and has some trouble with meso usage for one of their more important skills that gives them the ability to solo bosses in efficient and profitable time (Meso explosion). The shadower also trains slightly slower than the marksman (boss killing or mob killing), from my Tespian experience (9% slower per hour, lvl 16x.... AT GMS TESPIA)

The marksman on the other hand has trouble with survival; loses 7% on death and unable to take unavoidable hits from certain monsters/bosses. Skills like pierce and snipe (updated) have overkill on certain monsters because of lack of training areas that have mobs that have OVER 100K HP. The pros of the marksman include the ability to cast SE, ability to attack some bosses that would require a large number of accuracy and could kill melee warriors in 1 shot, and the ability to freeze and lure and push back monsters to avoid getting hit. In GMS Tespia my marksman (16x) was able to gain 15% per hour but lacked HP to boss HT (HP washing couldn't be done).

Both classes have the ability to adapt for most situations. Both classes can use their abilities to survive, mob, solo, be profitable, and be non repetative. My question is what matters more in the 4th job, in terms of leveling AND having fun, and which of these two classes is better suited to the attribute that matters the most? I have played both classes in 4th job in GMS Tespia 3, though not for a long enough time to get a feel of fourth job. I want to stick to one character to reap maximum benefits. Help me decide which of these characteristics is more important and which class is better overall

[Tamillan]

Both are fun classes. If you care a lot about damage, go for MM. If damage isn't so important, then shadower is better since it has a better survival ability. Training wise MM better probably. So it really depends on you. If you have a hard time choosing which class to go for. Just flip a coin and decide lol.

[Cyanne]

I was actually deciding between these two classes as well because they're the only two pre-pirate classes that use more than like 2-3 skills to train xD Both classes are very fun and have great variety.

I chose marksman though because of range and better bossing future.

By the way, marksman can deal nice damage at bosses, especially when more buccaneers with speed infusion pop up and with the 200k cape and 5 second snipe coming later(essentially quadrupling the effectiveness of current gMS). Also, marksmen don't have low mobility because of thrust. Most marksmen now get 9 thrust, which is already 128 speed with a speed pill. The rest can be covered with speed on the crossbow, pants, or pet. There are also mounts. I'm also wondering why overkill with pierce is a bad thing. Even if you think it is, time temple and skill updates will probably be out by the time you max pierce, assuming you're not one of those grinders. I don't know whether or not you'd like to play a shadower though.

[DrRusty]

How are you getting slow experience on a shadower? A shadower with taunt gets the best exp/hr of any class other than mages. Did you forget shadowers get upgraded as well with the kmst updates? Bsteps delay has been cut in half, assaulter's range was almost doubled, and BoT's range was also increased.

Once we get higher lvl mobs and the kmst updates, a shadower just might get close to the exp/hr of a mage.

[Stereo]

If SE mule is a con for Marksmen, you should put down Seduce mule as a con for Shadowers. They can't deal the DPS to be wanted at bosses for anything other than their massive avoid + meso guard (cuts 1/1s in half).

[VladTheLvr]

I was actually deciding between these two classes as well because they're the only two pre-pirate classes that use more than like 2-3 skills to train xD Both classes are very fun and have great variety.

I chose marksman though because of range and better bossing future.

By the way, marksman can deal nice damage at bosses, especially when more buccaneers with speed infusion pop up and with the 200k cape and 5 second snipe coming later(essentially quadrupling the effectiveness of current gMS). Also, marksmen don't have low mobility because of thrust. Most marksmen now get 9 thrust, which is already 128 speed with a speed pill. The rest can be covered with speed on the crossbow, pants, or pet. There are also mounts. I'm also wondering why overkill with pierce is a bad thing. Even if you think it is, time temple and skill updates will probably be out by the time you max pierce, assuming you're not one of those grinders. I don't know whether or not you'd like to play a shadower though.


Overkill pierce is listed as a con because when your class deals such high damage, it doesn't benefit to your exp, because you are missing out on EXP to HP ratio. Think of it as this, suppose Mages had the ability to deal 1 and a half million damage in 5 seconds on one monster (But they dont do that, they have the ability to attack 15 monsters for 99K damage, ensuring every damage point will get them exp, thats about) . Outside of bossing that attack would not be getting them good exp, even though they are dealing massive damage. Right now there are just not enough monsters that can take 200K damage and give a worthy experience for that.

[Cyanne]

No, I meant that even though the extra damage is worthless, it's not a BAD thing. Dealing 99999 damage to a snail is not WORSE than dealing 8 damage to snail because in the end, both will kill the snail. It's not like you lose something from dealing extra damage to the snail.

[Derimed]

Both of these classes are among the less popular ones, but Marksman is less playable than Shadower. Literally every top 10 Marksman on my server quit their Marksman. While there ARE lvl 200 Shadowers, there is to this day no lvl 200 Marksmen anywhere in GMS.

[JoshKun]

Both of these classes are among the less popular ones, but Marksman is less playable than Shadower. Literally every top 10 Marksman on my server quit their Marksman. While there ARE lvl 200 Shadowers, there is to this day no lvl 200 Marksmen anywhere in GMS.

OT I never actually realized that... lol

I know that the top 10 mardian MM goes all the way down to like level 130 or something crazy. Shows how UNpopular that class is. (at least in Mardia server)
I think MM will become more popular/active once they can kill all of zak arms in 4 minutes (or less?) appled with SI. (that would be *strafe strafe pierce strafe strafe pierce etc* or am I completely wrong since I've never played a MM?)

[Dusk]

Both of these classes are among the less popular ones, but Marksman is less playable than Shadower. Literally every top 10 Marksman on my server quit their Marksman. While there ARE lvl 200 Shadowers, there is to this day no lvl 200 Marksmen anywhere in GMS.


OT I never actually realized that... lol

I know that the top 10 mardian MM goes all the way down to like level 130 or something crazy. Shows how UNpopular that class is. (at least in Mardia server)
I think MM will become more popular/active once they can kill all of zak arms in 4 minutes (or less?) appled with SI. (that would be *strafe strafe pierce strafe strafe pierce etc* or am I completely wrong since I've never played a MM?)

What the...Pierce doesn't have a cooldown. It's a charge-up, and it's not terribly effective as a bossing skill. Marksmen would do Strafex5 (or 6 or 7, not sure) and Snipe.

Marksmen are set to be buffed massively in terms of single target damage, on pretty even ground with BMs. That should change things a lot.

[Tamillan]

Let me tell you something. Markman, because of these new KMST changes are one awesome class now. They are better than BM for training for sure. Also they have SE just like BM. For bossing they are about the same as BM too without apple. With apple they become weaker, but with SI they are about the same. However in bosses like HT, I'm not sure if there would be a buccaneer in ranged party. So MM are weaker but not by a lot. Since they are way faster at training than BM, it makes them perfectly equal to a BM. BM better for bosses where onyx apples are used and MM better for training and also decent in bossing.

Shadowers are ok at training, but not very good at bossing. however they are a very fun class to play. They are used as seduce mule for HT, so they stil have some use in HT. However when talking pure DPS, they are low on the list.

For training i think MM are faster. And for bossing MM are definetely stronger. So i think you should pick a MM unless they boost Shadowers more.

[iFrancisco]

How are you getting slow experience on a shadower? A shadower with taunt gets the best exp/hr of any class other than mages. Did you forget shadowers get upgraded as well with the kmst updates? Bsteps delay has been cut in half, assaulter's range was almost doubled, and BoT's range was also increased.

Once we get higher lvl mobs and the kmst updates, a shadower just might get close to the exp/hr of a mage.

Very true. I wouldn't say quite as fast as mages, but the exp will be insane and 100% sure it is already faster than marksman without the update. I am waiting for this update with utmost anticipation.


If SE mule is a con for Marksmen, you should put down Seduce mule as a con for Shadowers. They can't deal the DPS to be wanted at bosses for anything other than their massive avoid + meso guard (cuts 1/1s in half).

Some shadowers do attack at HT, you just need to be higher leveled and have good equips *points to self as example*.
The DPS damage is a common misconception. While it may be true that marksman will do more damage, shadowers can still account for 85-90% of the damage marksmen do (when apples and SE are included); that is hardly an extreme difference as that is about the same difference between an NL and a BM... The lack of high level shadowers ultimately leads to the we-can't-boss-worth-pomegranate misconception. I can still solo zakum, BF, anego, etc etc just fine =/

Edit: Wow, just realized why Southperry uses the word "Pomegranate." You can't curse hahaha...

[Heliocentric]

Wait, if you're comparing marksmen to shadowers, why are you also comparing them to a mage's ultimate? Isn't the mage's ultimates basically incomparable by all classes anyways?

[Hotshot]

Both are great classes imo, so whichever one you pick, you'll be very happy with as long as your focus isn't being the very best at anything. Like shadowers, marksmen use a lot of different skills during training so it's a pro for both (or a con in the case of some people xD). I'd never want to quit my marksman, but I might make a shadower on the side just for fun/melee. It's really hard to chose between a shadower and a buc for me.

[Doxinator]

Well, I've never gotten a bandit past 50, and it was fun for the time I had with it. I have a Marksman though, and it is the funnest class I've ever played. And how do Marksman have low Mobility? Put 10 points into thrust, 10 in MB and you're good, considering Xbows give speed also. I've got 13x% speed on my marksman with just his bow equipped and level 10 Thrust.

Marksmen are extremely fun, that's all there is to it.

[jikos]

Both suck major balls and are not needed and/or used ever. If you make a shadower, prepare to never be taken to any boss run, ever, until you're 140-150 with max fake at least. Then you get the fun and excitement of sitting on a rope with dark sight for an hour while you watch everybody else attack and get exp. Oh yeah they train a bit faster than other classes after they max taunt but whats the use of leveling when you're useless?

If you make a marksman, 9/10 times your chances of making it to a boss run will be crushed by the bowmaster 30 levels below you. Yea, you have SE, yea you spent 500mil to pass your SE30 book in hopes of being taken to HornTail, but face it, your weapon is slow and your main attack is strafe. Haha. Now, in the event you happen to get that 1/10 chance to make it to HT, you have to either spend 2bil on int equips and 500 dollars on ap resets, or wait til lvl 200 and still wear some HP equips on top of that! How delightful :D

My choice would be Shadower, because at least you can have fun while you suck.

[Hotshot]

Both suck major balls and are not needed and/or used ever. If you make a shadower, prepare to never be taken to any boss run, ever, until you're 140-150 with max fake at least. Then you get the fun and excitement of sitting on a rope with dark sight for an hour while you watch everybody else attack and get exp. Oh yeah they train a bit faster than other classes after they max taunt but whats the use of leveling when you're useless?

If you make a marksman, 9/10 times your chances of making it to a boss run will be crushed by the bowmaster 30 levels below you. Yea, you have SE, yea you spent 500mil to pass your SE30 book in hopes of being taken to HornTail, but face it, your weapon is slow and your main attack is strafe. Haha. Now, in the event you happen to get that 1/10 chance to make it to HT, you have to either spend 2bil on int equips and 500 dollars on ap resets, or wait til lvl 200 and still wear some HP equips on top of that! How delightful :D

My choice would be Shadower, because at least you can have fun while you suck.
There's enough overreacting and overgeneralizing here to make your head spin if you know about classes. I really don't know where this guy gets it all. Marksmen can get into zak/ht just as easily as bms can. As long as you have good SE and enough hp to survive, you'll be fine. With washing funded by the MTS at level 136 I have much more than enough hp to survive at HT using normal equip. Hell, if I start washing again, I'll probably be a good candidate for the melee party by 155 or so. Even at 134 I was accepted into HT runs, although with such a difference in level I was mostly an SE mule going after an egg/pendant. Shadowers can also be in melee parties if their equipment and level is good enough. After the kmst updates bs will have shorter cooldown, increasing their single-target dps even more. Marksmen get a huge boost to snipe, allowing them to about match nightlords and bowmasters for top damage-doers at bosses.

Both classes have a hell lot of style and are fun to play, whereas nightlord style is the same thing as hermit style, and is limitted to flashjump and I guess shadow partner. No offence, but the nightlord job advancement is a joke. It's like 'hermit v1.5'. TT replaces L7 (finally. But wait, it's the same attack, only more stars?!), mw does what everyone else's mw does, shadow claw lets you save stars, fake saves potions, venom adds training damage ('another L7 upgrade'). There's some new skill that looks like two-direction pkb and works less effectively, there's some hilarious ninja ambush attack that would probably allow a nl to get ksed by 3rd jobbers, and there's challenge or something, and I'm not sure how that plays into training but seems to be something that's not added to until higher levels if at all. When MW19 is one of the first skills a 4th job class wants to get maxed, you know they're headed for trouble. At least they'll always be wanted at bosses for their damage with SE and apples due to the nature of their damage formula.

Anyway, sorry about that random rant, I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings. :f3:

[Cyanne]

Yeah, marksmen and shadowers definitely have a brighter future ahead of them considering the new updates to pierce, snipe, boomerang step, assaulter, band of thieves, etc. Much of what actually limits these two classes in training at least is the lack of high-leveled monsters with enough hp so that it's actually worth piercing them or taunting them. And after the skill updates, the two classes will be able to do much more damage to bosses.

[VladTheLvr]

I heard that Shadowers are needed for the CWKPQ since they can stay alive easily and shadowers can easily solo bosses such as Pianus, Papu, GPQ boss. Not to mention they are the best all around class; being good with survival (MG) and high dodge and Assassinate (will become useful once damage cap is lifted higher). Further more they are fun in the other 3 jobs not just 4th. Along with that taunt is win. I don't understand why people say shadowers suck, I had (GMS TESPIA) a better challange and more fun by trying to get a rhythm for using skills such as taunt and sb to maximize training rather than spam TT on an NL and moving around.

[Cyanne]

Well, NLs do have taunt too, but right now, there's nothing worth using it on (yet) because they can't do crimson guardians well.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCErblHXyVQ

[Dusk]

I heard that Shadowers are needed for the CWKPQ since they can stay alive easily and shadowers can easily solo bosses such as Pianus, Papu, GPQ boss. Not to mention they are the best all around class; being good with survival (MG) and high dodge and Assassinate (will become useful once damage cap is lifted higher). Further more they are fun in the other 3 jobs not just 4th. Along with that taunt is win. I don't understand why people say shadowers suck, I had (GMS TESPIA) a better challange and more fun by trying to get a rhythm for using skills such as taunt and sb to maximize training rather than spam TT on an NL and moving around.

I agree with Shadowers rocking CWPQ:

-DPS is actually good against two-three bosses at the same time
-can hug the bosses without taking constant damage and burning pots
-As demonstrated by Devil, you get hit so infrequently you can Chakra to heal, if you're ballsy enough
-Smoke Screen makes it possible for ranged classes to attack Rellik without getting raped by stun lock + seal every 5 seconds, which is good if you're lacking good melee attackers. Good ranged attackers are much easier to find because people make ranged classes intending to be attackers.

Thief rooms need FJ but whatever.

[Joost1987]

MM pro= cheap imo
ofcourse you can spend as much as you like, but xbow's are just cheap...(compared to bow's for example, also they have more attack on avg)

[Kubi]

I still like playing and training my MM even til this day. The style and way is fun to me, but I know it's not for everyone. Maybe the class is sort of unattractive to most other players because we tend to mash more buttons while training?
Know for a fact , that more than several skills are used that can make training efficiently and less boring. With Time Temple, even PKB and iron arrow can be made a good use of.

I can't wait for the Kms updates to hit Gms either... Makes me glad and sort of lucky I happened to become an MM, though I wanted to be one of the few crossbow users and liked the cheap equipment back then...
Still with the updates from Kms, they still wouldn't really be the best at anything... But that's still fine with me.

Videos using the new Kms updates, provided by Cyanne.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak3L9fmUB6A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9mMUMlAJo8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHI-5-9SQpM

[Deity]

I agree with Shadowers rocking CWPQ:

-DPS is actually good against two-three bosses at the same time
-can hug the bosses without taking constant damage and burning pots
-As demonstrated by Devil, you get hit so infrequently you can Chakra to heal, if you're ballsy enough
-Smoke Screen makes it possible for ranged classes to attack Rellik without getting raped by stun lock + seal every 5 seconds, which is good if you're lacking good melee attackers. Good ranged attackers are much easier to find because people make ranged classes intending to be attackers.

Thief rooms need FJ but whatever.

Shadowers are definitely useful at CWPQ, although it is still very manageable without them. MMs and BMs are pretty much interchangeable, although the more BMs the better (KMS updates obviously helpful to MMs here. The only thing that our CWPQs need a BM over an MM for is puppeting and pinning Rellik).

Training speed isn't an issue for either class, especially with KMS updates. Time Temple will only make things better.

Coincidentally, my 2 highest level characters are my 12x MM and a 10x CB(retired). There's just something really fun about playing both of these classes. MMs have the huge advantage of cheap gear, and only 1 really expensive skill (which, of course, is SE and is well worth it). Honestly, the only things that bother me about my MM are inability to pin, thus making certain bosses impossible or difficult to solo, and survivability. I can't quite solo pap, and I'm far from soloing Pianus or attending HT. Shadowers, on the other hand, can go and solo Pap and Pianus at the level I am at and sooner. They can attend HT much sooner, albeit in a rather boring role. Manon, Griffey, and Leviathan are all no-no's for an unwashed MM, and all child's play for a Shadower at my level. These things are rather frustrating, but can be remedied with levels and some minor washing.

Not sure if I should suggest this or not, but trying out classes on certain, alternate Maplestory clients can be a really helpful way in testing out how much fun a class is at a high level, provided the characters are kept realistic.

Honestly, when I find myself in those situations, I go with what I really feel like I want to play, rather than what I feel like would be better to play, if you know what I mean. There's always one choice in your mind that sticks out more than the other, and I think that the best thing to do is to go with that choice and see how you feel about it after a while. I'm one of those people who is horrible at sticking it out on one character because I get urges to play other classes. I've made 7 third job characters. I've gotten 5 of them to 80, 3 of them to 90, 2 of them to 100, and one is 106, naked, and retired, the other is my main and going strong as a 126 MM. I've found my favorite class to play, and it is actually the first character I made. I have quit it and taken it back up about 4-5 times, but I know it has always been my true "main". Once you find one of those, other characters just become side projects to occupy you until you get that inspiration back. Good luck with finding yours :chin: