Two bigfoots - Poll of boredom ;D

[Itay]

Bigfoot #1: The bigfoot we currently have, fked up KB and 2,660,000 exp.

Bigfoot #2: The bigfoot I really want.

This bigfoot will give 1.33m exp, and will have a normal KB like HH. Why do I rather the one I invented? Two main reasons:

People would get less exp from LEECHING BF

Much easier to solo, especially for archers and night lords. Keep KBing it and when you need to re-skill, just place a puppet or FJ. I mean, come on. Bigfoot is a pain in the ass to kill, It's dangerous and annoying like hell. I currently solo one in 25 minutes, I assume #2 would get soloed in 10 minutes or less. Mainly because of that you'll hit 100% and not like the one we have now that you hit 4 out of 10 hits, and without all the running from BF if its get out of control shyt.

I've had this idea in mind, and always thought what would the economy would rather. Yes, I'm bored, No need to repeat.

Which one would you guys rather? :D

[Stereo]

Honestly if they fixed the KB and nerfed it to 300k exp I'd still be happier than the current one.

Fail to kb = dead paladin... I can't hunt it at all until I can take touch damage.

[tougo]

Indeed...i really hate CWK and glitched KB BF makes it even worse.

[Tykian]

Prefer the one now, whats the point in a boss that can NEVER touch you?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING

[Dusk]

I don't like the one we have now, but simply handing him a hitbox would make him just like half the other bosses we have.

[DrRusty]

I think they should raise the kb to like 15k, get rid of the invincibility frames, and lower the touch damage to somethin like 4k - 5k.

[Dusk]

I think they should raise the kb to like 15k, get rid of the invincibility frames, and lower the touch damage to somethin like 4k - 5k.

That would kill every ranged class's ability to solo it =( Except possibly very strong Corsairs, which would destroy it completely.

[DrRusty]

That would kill every ranged class's ability to solo it =( Except possibly very strong Corsairs, which would destroy it completely.

So ur saying ranged classes don't have enoug bosses they can go to already? All they need is hb or a dk/hero to keep it knocked bak. With those stats, its more friendly to pallys/shadowers/mages/bucs rather than the usual ranged classes.

[RoxStarz]

I don't know if Big Foot is Glitched or if they meant to have it not take dmg half the time. I would like to see them make it so that it at least looks like that is what they planned.

I would like to see a Big Foot that is the same as it is now except that it takes dmg every frame AND that it also has a skill that it does every once in awhile called "enraged." When this skill activates Big Foot kind of glows red and charges forward, unable to be kb'ed by any amount of dmg.

That would make for an interesting boss fight.

[Dusk]

So ur saying ranged classes don't have enoug bosses they can go to already? All they need is hb or a dk/hero to keep it knocked bak. With those stats, its more friendly to pallys/shadowers/mages/bucs rather than the usual ranged classes.

Why should archers who don't wash be the biggest losers? This boss wanders randomly through 8 maps, I'd be pretty pissed if I was completely helpless against it.

[DrRusty]

Why should archers who don't wash be the biggest losers? This boss wanders randomly through 8 maps, I'd be pretty pissed if I was completely helpless against it.

Okay... First of all, since when are archers the biggest losers? They have some of the best DPS in the game. Not being able to solo bigfoot isn't going to make the class any less desirable.

2nd- having an OHKO to any class (the way it is now) is going to make him any more safe? Archers who are skilled with puppet will still be able to kill it.

3rd- nexon said when they released bigfoot that they were trying to make a challening boss where teamwork is needed. Pinning him back makes no different than a furry anego.

4th- archers have always been crippled by hp. That's the weakness of a ranged class. 2nd body of pap does 5k+ dmg yet u still see people able to solo it.

5th- Having one boss that other classes could actually go to would be a nice thing to have. As of now, there is no boss that a NL or BM isnt the best class to have kill it. I can't believe you actually are trying to make it seem that archers actually have any trouble killing a boss.

6th- you don't even have to hp wash. There's something called a blood build. HP is a stat just like any other....

[DarkestTempest]

I'd rather have BF give 2.66m over anything else. I enjoy killing it (yes, I can kill it on all maps, even Evil Dead if I have a elderwraith distracting thief), and I'd rather have good exp for my kills seeing that BF drops nothing.

[heronz]

i think a BF or some other area boss should be able to throw monsters at maplers. should be fun to see a NL or BM get nailed by a jr wraith .....lol or elder wraith. or a monster magnet skill so that it can create a meat shield. also no KB animation BUT no invincibility too.

i think right now the biggest challenge of BF is the HP and BF hunters (KSers). but its still relatively easy.

[Dusk]

Okay... First of all, since when are archers the biggest losers? They have some of the best DPS in the game. Not being able to solo bigfoot isn't going to make the class any less desirable.

2nd- having an OHKO to any class (the way it is now) is going to make him any more safe? Archers who are skilled with puppet will still be able to kill it.

3rd- nexon said when they released bigfoot that they were trying to make a challening boss where teamwork is needed. Pinning him back makes no different than a furry anego.

4th- archers have always been crippled by hp. That's the weakness of a ranged class. 2nd body of pap does 5k+ dmg yet u still see people able to solo it.

5th- Having one boss that other classes could actually go to would be a nice thing to have. As of now, there is no boss that a NL or BM isnt the best class to have kill it. I can't believe you actually are trying to make it seem that archers actually have any trouble killing a boss.

6th- you don't even have to hp wash. There's something called a blood build. HP is a stat just like any other....

I was talking about Bigfoot. Other bosses are irrelevant in this discussion. That's a problem that should be attended to in the rest of MapleStory, not one GMS exclusive boss. Archers are DPS classes; if anyone should be able to solo a boss, they should be included.

Pap isn't the same thing at all.

1. It is much easier to hold in place than Bigfoot.
2. Even if it breaks free you can hold down and avoid getting hit.

You can't safely hold Bigfoot down with Puppet alone; it would either require running into his stomp range to make him stop running and counting on him stomping or giving up some room every couple of seconds. This would be next to impossible on any map but Phantom Road. Bigfoot kills Puppet in two hits on average; even with a lowered damage that probably wouldn't last long enough for more than 4-5 hits. Having to risk certain death to hold down a boss every 10 seconds is quite a daunting task.

Blood builds weaken a character; you shouldn't encourage more reasons for people to wash. I agree that more bosses should require team effort, but Bigfoot isn't one of them. Or if you want it to be, then don't randomly spawn it all over the maps where people have to walk through to get up to CWK.

[Deviant]

Fix the KB on ours and we're fine, we dont need an even more sin/archer friendly one though, honestly its a boss, people should find it as a challenge, Archers and sins farm Bigfoot, HH, and Anego all day, all of which (except HH) ill never be able to do without great trouble as a Shadower, which really irks me.

[DrRusty]

I was talking about Bigfoot. Other bosses are irrelevant in this discussion. That's a problem that should be attended to in the rest of MapleStory, not one GMS exclusive boss. Archers are DPS classes; if anyone should be able to solo a boss, they should be included.

Pap isn't the same thing at all.

1. It is much easier to hold in place than Bigfoot.
2. Even if it breaks free you can hold down and avoid getting hit.

You can't safely hold Bigfoot down with Puppet alone; it would either require running into his stomp range to make him stop running and counting on him stomping or giving up some room every couple of seconds. This would be next to impossible on any map but Phantom Road. Bigfoot kills Puppet in two hits on average; even with a lowered damage that probably wouldn't last long enough for more than 4-5 hits. Having to risk certain death to hold down a boss every 10 seconds is quite a daunting task.

Blood builds weaken a character; you shouldn't encourage more reasons for people to wash. I agree that more bosses should require team effort, but Bigfoot isn't one of them. Or if you want it to be, then don't randomly spawn it all over the maps where people have to walk through to get up to CWK.

okay first- why is it irrelevant to talk about other bosses? Giving examples is one of the best ways to arue a point.

2nd- no one said archers couldn't solo it, it would just be harder than the current bigfoot for them. Raising his kb and lowering his touch damage just allows him to be friendly with all classes rather than just yours.

3rd- Yah it would be harder to keep him bak with puppet. A second alternative is to apple and bring your crits above 15k. That's why you bring other players with you to help. Either to do the kb dm or give u the necessary hp.

4th- No duh blood builds weaken your char. That's the weakness of ranged classes is their hp. Should I use another class as an example? According to you I shouldn't be using examples. I shouldn't have brought up another boss to make my point, so should I use another class to make my point when we are clearly talking about archers? Well I'm going to anyways. Warriors are a perfect example of another class with a crutch. Ranged has hp and melee has accuracy. What do warriors do when they can't hit something? They sacrifice their damage and add into dex. What makes archers so much better that they can't sacrifice damage to numb their weakness? The only difference is that hp is more expensive than accuracy. Sorry.... I didn't make the classes.

5th- havin him spawn all over the map is exactly why his touch dmg should be reduced. It makes it easier to survive a hit. My buc can't even take 1 hit with the current bigfoot and I'm almost lvl 130. If a low lvl char couldn't take a hit, he could bring a spearman friend to hb him. With the current bigfoot, there is no chance.

6th-

Fix the KB on ours and we're fine, we dont need an even more sin/archer friendly one though, honestly its a boss, people should find it as a challenge, Archers and sins farm Bigfoot, HH, and Anego all day, all of which (except HH) ill never be able to do without great trouble as a Shadower, which really irks me.

This. If other classes have to find it a challenge, wuts wrong with ranged havin to find it a challenge too?

[Morgana]

I love BF's touch damage. It's exhilirating. As a priest with tons of HP equips lying around, I can tank a hit from most bosses (other than Black Crow) with HB and MG. (I know, not Zak or HT or anything, but I'm not going to really fight those until 4th job.) The fact that I might be able to just barely tank a touch from BF is exciting. I'm planning on getting an SS the first time I manage to do it. =)

I've also gone to a non-pinned BF and it was one of the most fun experiences I've had on Maple in years. The high EXP is a good incentive to get back in the game even if you die, and there's precious little of that spirit at most bosses, where death means you can't continue at all unless you have Res. The fight is unpredictable, and you have to have fast fingers on Teleport or mount if he charges you, or leave the map before you get cornered. Learning how to telecast HS is finally useful. =P

Besides, the only person that didn't die at that BF? An 8x ranger. It's not all about class.

A friend of mine Zerks BF... Crazy-cool to watch.

[Dusk]

okay first- why is it irrelevant to talk about other bosses? Giving examples is one of the best ways to arue a point.

2nd- no one said archers couldn't solo it, it would just be harder than the current bigfoot for them. Raising his kb and lowering his touch damage just allows him to be friendly with all classes rather than just yours.

3rd- Yah it would be harder to keep him bak with puppet. A second alternative is to apple and bring your crits above 15k. That's why you bring other players with you to help. Either to do the kb dm or give u the necessary hp.

4th- No duh blood builds weaken your char. That's the weakness of ranged classes is their hp. Should I use another class as an example? According to you I shouldn't be using examples. I shouldn't have brought up another boss to make my point, so should I use another class to make my point when we are clearly talking about archers? Well I'm going to anyways. Warriors are a perfect example of another class with a crutch. Ranged has hp and melee has accuracy. What do warriors do when they can't hit something? They sacrifice their damage and add into dex. What makes archers so much better that they can't sacrifice damage to numb their weakness? The only difference is that hp is more expensive than accuracy. Sorry.... I didn't make the classes.

5th- havin him spawn all over the map is exactly why his touch dmg should be reduced. It makes it easier to survive a hit. My buc can't even take 1 hit with the current bigfoot and I'm almost lvl 130. If a low lvl char couldn't take a hit, he could bring a spearman friend to hb him. With the current bigfoot, there is no chance.

6th-


This. If other classes have to find it a challenge, wuts wrong with ranged havin to find it a challenge too?
I didn't say don't use examples, I said don't use the general strength of archers at bosses as an excuse to make Bigfoot, which exists only in GMS, hell for archers.

The problem with using HP as a secondary stat is that HP washing exists. HP washing will be always be done, because people don't want to give up damage. It shouldn't even be part of the game. The most annoying thing for a ranged class is when the damage done by a boss is on the threshold of survivability. A normal build needs godly HP equips, but someone who puts points into HP can do it with normal equips, and then wash MP back into damage. That's bullpomegranate. You don't understand how much I hate things that hit somewhere in the range of 5k damage. If you want it to be a 1hko for ranged classes, mark it up to 9-10k damage, at which point it really isn't worth it to raise HP.

Have you ever tried playing an archer? You can't hold a monster the size and speed of Bigfoot down without being able to KB him almost all the time, no matter how good you are at using Puppet. Headless Horseman is already a difficult target to hold down using Strafe and Puppet, and that's with a KB low enough to KB him on every shot. It's very risky for my 12x BM to kill Bigfoot on Twisted Paths KBing him on every crit, and anytime another person attacks it all hell breaks loose (I always die when I kill Bigfoot with a party; it's so pineappleing annoying not to be able to use Puppet). Put simply, a KB of 15k and leaving him as a 1hko makes soloing Bigfoot nearly impossible for an archer. Even with Apples (another thing that should not ever be necessary), not being able to KB on a large portion of your hits is crippling.

It should be a challenge. How does giving it 15k HP and dropping its damage to survivable for anyone but a ranged class that doesn't invest AP in HP make it hard? That takes no skill for melee classes; Warriors can just rush it into a corner and hack the pomegranate out of it. That's pretty much what Heroes do now. Corsairs and NLs can Recoil/FJ through it, so they have no problems there. There has to be a better way to change it than to make it a pinnable boss for everyone but a ranged class.

Edit:

Okay, I thought about it a bit more, and this is what I've concluded:

What I want
- Either all classes can solo it, or all classes can't solo it, in which case move its ass off the maps it's on right now.
- A challlenge (boss cannot be easily pinned to the wall like Anego).
- HP washing has no benefit other than to allow some classes to survive a few levels earlier
- Apples and other attack pots should not have any benefit

What I think you want
- Survivability for nonranged classes
- Ranged classes to be worse than other classes somehow
- Boss that requires teamwork

I don't really see how giving it 15k KB and making it survivable, leaving everything else the same really fosters teamwork. I don't really see any way to make the boss fair without making it soloable, so I'd just go with option A - allowing all classes to solo it.

First issue: How much damage should it do? The boss should be aimed at possible for a typical level 130. A 130 Shadower with a regular AP build has about 3500, more or less HP at that level with a 100 HP pendant. I dunno how much HP Bucs have, but I assume it's about double, and Warriors and Mages have more survivability, so I think a upper limit of about 7000, a little less with defense, should be reasonable. Maybe 6500 to be safe. This is enough for any 130 non-ranged class to survive it, while ranged classes cannot survive without HB and 4100 base HP.

Second issue: How much KB should it have and how should it work? It should be high enough so that it's not a wimp and can gain some ground against a ranged class while still KBable for anyone else, but not high enough so that it tramples any archer without possibility of holding it down. I think a KB of 5k fits the bill. Archers and NLs will need to Crit to KB. This alone isn't enough, but if Bigfoot's KB animation is held at the time it takes now and it can be hit back while in KB state (think Windraiders - they stop moving for a time but they don't lose their hitbox) archers should be able to hold it back with Puppet, and of course NLs can jump over it.

So to recap:
HP - same
EXP - same, maybe nerf to 2m? I dunno.
Damage - 6500 max
KB - 5000, works like Windraiders
I'd also like to see its avoid buffed just a little bit (I could easily hit it as a 4x slinger, which is dumb), make Power Guard ineffective on it.

[DrRusty]

I didn't say don't use examples, I said don't use the general strength of archers at bosses as an excuse to make Bigfoot, which exists only in GMS, hell for archers.

The problem with using HP as a secondary stat is that HP washing exists. HP washing will be always be done, because people don't want to give up damage. It shouldn't even be part of the game. The most annoying thing for a ranged class is when the damage done by a boss is on the threshold of survivability. A normal build needs godly HP equips, but someone who puts points into HP can do it with normal equips, and then wash MP back into damage. That's bullpomegranate. You don't understand how much I hate things that hit somewhere in the range of 5k damage. If you want it to be a 1hko for ranged classes, mark it up to 9-10k damage, at which point it really isn't worth it to raise HP.

Have you ever tried playing an archer? You can't hold a monster the size and speed of Bigfoot down without being able to KB him almost all the time, no matter how good you are at using Puppet. Headless Horseman is already a difficult target to hold down using Strafe and Puppet, and that's with a KB low enough to KB him on every shot. It's very risky for my 12x BM to kill Bigfoot on Twisted Paths KBing him on every crit, and anytime another person attacks it all hell breaks loose (I always die when I kill Bigfoot with a party; it's so pineappleing annoying not to be able to use Puppet). Put simply, a KB of 15k and leaving him as a 1hko makes soloing Bigfoot nearly impossible for an archer. Even with Apples (another thing that should not ever be necessary), not being able to KB on a large portion of your hits is crippling.

It should be a challenge. How does giving it 15k HP and dropping its damage to survivable for anyone but a ranged class that doesn't invest AP in HP make it hard? That takes no skill for melee classes; Warriors can just rush it into a corner and hack the pomegranate out of it. That's pretty much what Heroes do now. Corsairs and NLs can Recoil/FJ through it, so they have no problems there. There has to be a better way to change it than to make it a pinnable boss for everyone but a ranged class.

Edit:

Okay, I thought about it a bit more, and this is what I've concluded:

What I want
- Either all classes can solo it, or all classes can't solo it, in which case move its ass off the maps it's on right now.
- A challlenge (boss cannot be easily pinned to the wall like Anego).
- HP washing has no benefit other than to allow some classes to survive a few levels earlier
- Apples and other attack pots should not have any benefit

What I think you want
- Survivability for nonranged classes
- Ranged classes to be worse than other classes somehow
- Boss that requires teamwork

I don't really see how giving it 15k KB and making it survivable, leaving everything else the same really fosters teamwork. I don't really see any way to make the boss fair without making it soloable, so I'd just go with option A - allowing all classes to solo it.

First issue: How much damage should it do? The boss should be aimed at possible for a typical level 130. A 130 Shadower with a regular AP build has about 3500, more or less HP at that level with a 100 HP pendant. I dunno how much HP Bucs have, but I assume it's about double, and Warriors and Mages have more survivability, so I think a upper limit of about 7000, a little less with defense, should be reasonable. Maybe 6500 to be safe. This is enough for any 130 non-ranged class to survive it, while ranged classes cannot survive without HB and 4100 base HP.

Second issue: How much KB should it have and how should it work? It should be high enough so that it's not a wimp and can gain some ground against a ranged class while still KBable for anyone else, but not high enough so that it tramples any archer without possibility of holding it down. I think a KB of 5k fits the bill. Archers and NLs will need to Crit to KB. This alone isn't enough, but if Bigfoot's KB animation is held at the time it takes now and it can be hit back while in KB state (think Windraiders - they stop moving for a time but they don't lose their hitbox) archers should be able to hold it back with Puppet, and of course NLs can jump over it.

So to recap:
HP - same
EXP - same, maybe nerf to 2m? I dunno.
Damage - 6500 max
KB - 5000, works like Windraiders
I'd also like to see its avoid buffed just a little bit (I could easily hit it as a 4x slinger, which is dumb), make Power Guard ineffective on it.

1st- Yes HP washing does exist for archers, and so does better accuracy gear for melee. HP washing just happens to be more expensive.

2nd- I've said it already....... hp is a weakness for ranged. That's exactly why they have range, is because they're not supposed to be close enough to take damage. Just because archers can't take a hit, don't make a make it so everyone cant take a hit. Your weakness shouldn't be everyones weakness, especially since your strength no one else has.

3rd- I don't want it to 100% KO any range class. I want ranged classes to have to bring HB.

4th- Sorry that it's risky for your 12x bowmaster to kill bigfoot. Have you ever tried playing a shadower or buc? Try soloing bigfoot with that then tell me what is risky.

5th- True, warriors can rush it into a corner and just spam brandish or crusher. A way to fix this would be to take advantage of the weakness of warriors (accuracy issues). Bring his avoidability to somewhere around the same as a nigh shadow or dark wyvern. Then the boss really is equal for everyone.

6th- Having a 5k KB sounds like it would be alright. A ranged class would be able to keep it pinned, but it's hard for them to hit consistent 5ks so it would still be challenging for them.

[iFrancisco]

Both of you have made some interesting and worthwhile points. I would have to say though that 5k KB is still far too little. Last thing I would want (I suppose this is for me personally) is to be able to go up to BF and spam SB and afk (wait, I would be like a range character at Anego now -.-). Any decently leveled 4th job ranged character can hit over 5k very consistently; Maybe a 8-10k KB would fit the bill much better.

If there are complaints about BF as it is now for archers, I can't imagine the complaints when the toad boss comes to GMS with his 13k+ hits; you can't be able to kill every boss efficiently.

[Dusk]

Rusty, read the edited part of my post. How is 6500 damage going to kill everybody? Only ranged classes without HB would die, exactly as you said.

HP washing should not be an option. It shouldn't exist. If you really want to put damage on a threshold where only washed ranged classes can survive, fix the way we increase our HP. More opportunities to scroll gear for HP, higher defense values, and more base HP on higher level equips to encourage the use of them should be the answer.

It looks to me like Shadowers just spam Boomerang Step and go into Dark Sight when he gets close. That's what the Shadower I BFed with today did. I don't get why that's risky o_o it's just slow.


Both of you have made some interesting and worthwhile points. I would have to say though that 5k KB is still far too little. Last thing I would want (I suppose this is for me personally) is to be able to go up to BF and spam SB and afk (wait, I would be like a range character at Anego now -.-). Any decently leveled 4th job ranged character can hit over 5k very consistently; Maybe a 8-10k KB would fit the bill much better.

If there are complaints about BF as it is now for archers, I can't imagine the complaints when the toad boss comes to GMS with his 13k+ hits; you can't be able to kill every boss efficiently.

Find me an archer with a 5k base min damage range. Actually, find me an archer with a 5k base max damage range - that's calling for at least level 160 with godly equips. Then add in Bigfoot's defense. Archers can't consistently hit 5k on crits unless their stats are godly. I dunno how well NLs do with that, though.

Why would get the toad boss?

[»-Chris->]

I have never had a problem soloing BF, or going in a party there on a BM. Unpotted, and mostly stripped it was fine too.

The melee classes I played there however were as good as dead. =(

Other than that I don't really have enough experience to comment.

[DrRusty]

Rusty, read the edited part of my post. How is 6500 damage going to kill everybody? Only ranged classes without HB would die, exactly as you said.

HP washing should not be an option. It shouldn't exist. If you really want to put damage on a threshold where only washed ranged classes can survive, fix the way we increase our HP. More opportunities to scroll gear for HP, higher defense values, and more base HP on higher level equips to encourage the use of them should be the answer.

It looks to me like Shadowers just spam Boomerang Step and go into Dark Sight when he gets close. That's what the Shadower I BFed with today did. I don't get why that's risky o_o it's just slow.



Find me an archer with a 5k base min damage range. Actually, find me an archer with a 5k base max damage range - that's calling for at least level 160 with godly equips. Then add in Bigfoot's defense. Archers can't consistently hit 5k on crits unless their stats are godly. I dunno how well NLs do with that, though.

Why would get the toad boss?

1st- I dont want it to be impossible for ranged to survive, just that they need HB to survive. HP washing is up to the person. If you dont wanna HP wash then bring a DK with you.

2nd- Maybe your right, HP washing shouldnt be an option. The thing is, it is an option. It's part of the game we're playing, and it's a very valid point to use when debating something like this. Like I said, you dont need to wash, just add points into HP. Sorry if your damage get lower, but any warrior who needs to add dex to hit stuff won't sympathize with you.

3rd- Sure you can sit and spam BStep til it's dead. It'll just take over 2 hours. That doesn't exactly help paladins or bucs though.

4th- Who said they should be able to consistently knock it back? The whole point behind the 5k touch damage and high knockback damage is to keep him from being pinned, but make his touch damage survivable.

5th- Why do you want to raise his touch damage so high? Just so even HP washed would die? I don't know why you're so anti-HP washed. If you don't want to wash/put points in HP, then thats your own problem. You shouldn't hope to kill off all washed chars just because you don't want/can't afford to wash.

6th- Have you read my "Perfect Maple Boss Fight" thread? I'd like you to go there, look through it, and find someone that said keeping a boss pinned all day long is the best way to make a boss.

[Dusk]

You're very bad at reading comprehension. Maybe I should respond to your points individually o_o


1st- I dont want it to be impossible for ranged to survive, just that they need HB to survive. HP washing is up to the person. If you dont wanna HP wash then bring a DK with you.

...

6500 damage. Ranged classes raise their HP to 8k with HB for HT. 6500 damage is survivable without HP washing; you just need HB. This is exactly what you're asking for. What part of this are you not understanding?




2nd- Maybe your right, HP washing shouldnt be an option. The thing is, it is an option. It's part of the game we're playing, and it's a very valid point to use when debating something like this. Like I said, you dont need to wash, just add points into HP. Sorry if your damage get lower, but any warrior who needs to add dex to hit stuff won't sympathize with you.

Just because it exists doesn't mean you have to make more reasons for people to do it. HP and accuracy aren't the same thing at all.

1. Warriors don't instantly die when they don't have enough accuracy.
2. Accuracy is much easier to come by, as you've said. You can pot accuracy. Accuracy is basically the missing secondary stat Warriors are missing, since they don't need anything but STR to maximize damage. If a Warrior can't hit something, that's their fault for investing too much in trying to increase their damage. Archers, Pirates, and Thieves all have a secondary stat they need to invest in to wield their higher level weapons. Low HP is a crutch for ranged classes, not another secondary stat.
3. Getting more accuracy does not shove absurd amounts of money at Nexon. No, you can MTS for anything, but someone is paying hundreds of dollars every time for the NX every time someone washes a few hundred HP.



3rd- Sure you can sit and spam BStep til it's dead. It'll just take over 2 hours. That doesn't exactly help paladins or bucs though.

I'm aware of that. 6500 damage is survivable for both Pallys and Bucs.



4th- Who said they should be able to consistently knock it back? The whole point behind the 5k touch damage and high knockback damage is to keep him from being pinned, but make his touch damage survivable.

Again, you keep misinterpreting what I'm trying to say, and it's getting really annoyng. I was responding to iFrancisco's point about 5k KB still being too little. I was arguing that it was not; that yes, you can't consistently KB it with 5k KB.



5th- Why do you want to raise his touch damage so high? Just so even HP washed would die? I don't know why you're so anti-HP washed. If you don't want to wash/put points in HP, then thats your own problem. You shouldn't hope to kill off all washed chars just because you don't want/can't afford to wash.

Read above. KILL THE FUCKING WASHING. It's not because I can't do it, because believe me, I can :f6:



6th- Have you read my "Perfect Maple Boss Fight" thread? I'd like you to go there, look through it, and find someone that said keeping a boss pinned all day long is the best way to make a boss.
I specifically said in an earlier post that I don't want it to be pinnable. I'm not going to bother arguing with you anymore. I spend half of each post correcting you because you can't be bothered to read my entire posts.

[iFrancisco]

Find me an archer with a 5k base min damage range. Actually, find me an archer with a 5k base max damage range - that's calling for at least level 160 with godly equips. Then add in Bigfoot's defense. Archers can't consistently hit 5k on crits unless their stats are godly. I dunno how well NLs do with that, though.

Why would get the toad boss?

Oh, maybe I have just seen BMs that are level 140+, but all of them can consistently hit over 5k crits (and some of them are very average). It is not uncommon for their crits to break 10k too, not sure what is so special about the 5k mark. Of course some of the normal hits may not hit over 5k, but is that needed to constantly KB him (I don't know if SOA needs 100% KBing to do that)? I was just saying that 5k might be too low, but of course that is debatable.

[Dusk]

Oh, maybe I have just seen BMs that are level 140+, but all of them can consistently hit over 5k crits (and some of them are very average). It is not uncommon for their crits to break 10k too, not sure what is so special about the 5k mark. Of course some of the normal hits may not hit over 5k, but is that needed to constantly KB him (I don't know if SOA needs 100% KBing to do that)? I was just saying that 5k might be too low, but of course that is debatable.

Of course their crits are going to be over 5k. Their noncrits aren't. Maybe 6k, to make sure it stays out of their damage range?

It's pretty difficult to hold Bigfoot down without KBing him on your noncrits. That makes up 35% (45% with my BM's 9 SE) of your shots, and a long string of noncrits equals certain doom. So it's pretty difficult, but not impossible.

[iFrancisco]

Of course their crits are going to be over 5k. Their noncrits aren't. Maybe 6k, to make sure it stays out of their damage range?

It's pretty difficult to hold Bigfoot down without KBing him on your noncrits. That makes up 35% (45% with my BM's 9 SE) of your shots, and a long string of noncrits equals certain doom. So it's pretty difficult, but not impossible.

Ah ok, that makes sense. I just wasn't sure how SOA affects KBing since it attacks so fast and usually KB animations take longer than the time it takes for 1 arrow to hit.

[KatanaKiwi]

nightlords should stop whining, aswell as bowmasters, you guys allready have an entire showa hide-out of bosses wich are mainly for nightlords/bowmasters.. just let heroes and brawlers have their fun with this one for gods sake.. dont be spoiled

[Chameleonic]

How much damage should it do? The boss should be aimed at possible for a typical level 130. A 130 Shadower with a regular AP build has about 3500, more or less HP at that level with a 100 HP pendant. I dunno how much HP Bucs have, but I assume it's about double, and Warriors and Mages have more survivability, so I think a upper limit of about 7000, a little less with defense, should be reasonable. Maybe 6500 to be safe. This is enough for any 130 non-ranged class to survive it, while ranged classes cannot survive without HB and 4100 base HP.


You do remember that an Archer wont get 4100 base Hp till about lv 165...thats a long way from lv 130.


I agree with Isaac's comment that no monster (Boss or otherwise, my addition :f2:) should do more than 3500 damage.

[summer]

nightlords should stop whining, aswell as bowmasters, you guys allready have an entire showa hide-out of bosses wich are mainly for nightlords/bowmasters.. just let heroes and brawlers have their fun with this one for gods sake.. dont be spoiled

then like Dusk said... DO NOT PUT IT IN ALL 8 MAPS!

put it in some maps that's not in the way to CWK! or do some jumpquest style thing like the pillars of doom... where you can actually get AROUND it

it appearing in a crossroad map with you stuck in the corner = certain death no matter how you look at it... it's IMPOSSIBLE to survive it. and BOOM 7% gone...

and about the KB damage, ~130, a BM would probably spend 2-3 levels on SE at least, so their main attack, hurricane, isn't high enough to even do 5k... i do 6k sometimes, but on weaker monsters... BF, i do rarely 5k... sure it's fast... but the chances of seeing a series of non-crit for 3-4 seconds is quite common to me >.>

so basically:
Exp: whatever it is, i don't care... as long as it's 1mil+ exp
HP: eh... it takes me ~50 mins to kill it... non-apple + dieing 7 times... + puppeting + running away all the time when puppet fails... but i guess it's okay >.>
KB: 5k ish should be fine i guess...
Damage: AT MOST 5k... nothing more than that! EVEN if i bring HB, i won't be able to survive otherwise... and I HAVE WASHED too!

[TamilTiger1]

If this should be fixed, then shouldn't anego be fixed to be warrior friendly as well? This may only be in our version now but it still affects the warriors here. And other versions could also get it sooner or later.

Yes its harder for some classes than others but thats the point of having different classes. You can't say that bowman can't get past that map because you can if you are being carefull and yes there should be risks in it. You chose the class knowing their weakness, this is also what gives some other classes advantage in this area over others. Its what being that class means, you can't do everything. Magicians who get disconnected in some maps will respawn on a monster and die instantly, but they can make use of their tanking abilities elsewhere better than other classes. Its the risk that comes with the class you choose.

As a bowman you can kill big foot by using puppet, but requires some risks and a bit slower in killing it. You can move back a bit each time then puppet on other side and jump over big foot (with mount to be safe) then continue.
As a mage you can kill it, takes hell of a long time and you have to be really high level to take the damage. At almost level 160, i still can't take touch damage unless i wear a piece of hp equip.
Warriors also have to be really high level to survive touch damage which they are at risk of mostly along with other melee (shadowers and bucc). They do very well at high levels.
Thiefs, take lot of time in killing and almost similar risk as bowman.

Big foot is just more friendly to warriors than other classes but thats also at high enough levels. Just like how anego is ranged friendly and a nightmare for warriors. I don't see why the ranged should have advantage and be able to do all bosses while warriors can't.

I think it should be left as it is now, makes bosses a little challenging.

[FelixTM]

You can't safely hold Bigfoot down with Puppet alone; it would either require running into his stomp range to make him stop running and counting on him stomping or giving up some room every couple of seconds. This would be next to impossible on any map but Phantom Road. Bigfoot kills Puppet in two hits on average; even with a lowered damage that probably wouldn't last long enough for more than 4-5 hits. Having to risk certain death to hold down a boss every 10 seconds is quite a daunting task.

I don't really know what you two are going back and forth about, but I need to comment on this, at least. I don't know what you're talking about @ bolded. Maybe you need more practice at it? I've had so many pure-Puppet hold BF solos that I've lost count. That was the only way I soloed BF until I learned the quick pin (mount + wall) method. Sometimes I lose ground, yeah, but there's been several BF solos where I kept BF in the exact same place the entire battle with constant Puppet use (and yes, I've done that in all the different maps, even the Evilwraiths one). It's extremely easy if you just maintain focus and keep the little twerps off you.

I'd like to know why you said that... BF is so easy to control. :/ Once you take the time to hunt them often, you'll learn all the different methods of dominating him. I can do whatever I want with BF with no risk to myself. I can lead him around the map, pin him when I want, etc... In the very beginning, I hated the missing hitboxes, but I quickly learned to love them. It makes BF more interesting (which he needs, because he's just as boring Pap, HH, Anego, yeah yeah).

And yeah I realize my character is much stronger than yours (less time to deal with BF), but if you learn to control BF it's not any harder, just longer (I don't feel level is an argument, anyway, because it's not hard to level if you want - but that's not my point). Even Night Lords can easily take down BF, and they have less control options than bowmen. Once melee can take a touch hit, he becomes a joke to them, too. Bigfoot needs to stay exactly how he is because he's already too pathetic...

(And as an FYI, since I think I saw someone say something about it: Puppet pin VS Wall pin at Bigfoot for skilled BMs is nearly the exact same amount of time to kill. It differs by 1-2 mins, at most. I've done several of both methods.)

[Dusk]

Felix, I meant you can't pin Bigfoot without being able to KB him. It's just not possible. Puppet doesn't push him back, it just keeps him in one place. You'll lose ground on him no matter how good you are at Puppeting.

Edit: Btw, what did you think I meant by Puppet alone? Of course you can solo BF if you can KB him. I've seen it done plenty of times.

And yeah, I know Anego's not melee friendly. I didn't say that was fair either, I just don't think something that got imported from JMS that is unfair should be balanced by making Bigfoot unfair to ranged classes.

[cooldog67]

if you take away the kb glitch, it takes the lower ascent training places from noobs. >.<

[summer]

explain?

[TamilTiger1]

And yeah, I know Anego's not melee friendly. I didn't say that was fair either, I just don't think something that got imported from JMS that is unfair should be balanced by making Bigfoot unfair to ranged classes.

Even if its imported from JMS, its still part of our version now is it not? Most of the contents are shared between the versions and it might get to JMS one day to make it fair for the warriors there too. Maybe JMS has some other exclusive areas that give advantage to warriors that we'll never get here. Or better yet, why not change the showa bosses to be warrior friendly for our version now since BF is only available here so far. They did say that we don't do everything other versions do when someone sent an e-mail about the elemental wands being different here right? Imported material or not its still part of our everyday game play, i don't see why they can't be balanced using our own content. Yes new imported contents may come here soon, but it hasn't yet and when it does they could just as well bring out another way of balancing that.

It becomes easier with more practice. I see the currect big foot as a bigger advantage to archers and other ranged characters already, they can actually kill it with difficulty but for a melee class its impossible until they can take a touch damage.

[Stereo]

if you take away the kb glitch, it takes the lower ascent training places from noobs. >.<

70+ can do quests to completely bypass the Crossroads, Elder Wraiths are more a worry than Bigfoot.

As for 60-70, well... you gain so much exp... what's 5% here and there? 50%/hour training makes up for it easily.


Not to mention, everyone except Assassins can stock up on pots and go up to Lower ascent for levels at a time. And Thieves have dark sight to get past BF even if they run into one (I saw him once during 58-70)

[Dusk]

Even if its imported from JMS, its still part of our version now is it not? Most of the contents are shared between the versions and it might get to JMS one day to make it fair for the warriors there too. Maybe JMS has some other exclusive areas that give advantage to warriors that we'll never get here. Or better yet, why not change the showa bosses to be warrior friendly for our version now since BF is only available here so far. They did say that we don't do everything other versions do when someone sent an e-mail about the elemental wands being different here right? Imported material or not its still part of our everyday game play, i don't see why they can't be balanced using our own content. Yes new imported contents may come here soon, but it hasn't yet and when it does they could just as well bring out another way of balancing that.

It becomes easier with more practice. I see the currect big foot as a bigger advantage to archers and other ranged characters already, they can actually kill it with difficulty but for a melee class its impossible until they can take a touch damage.

Yeah, uh, take that up with JMS, because they like Hermits a lot. Showa is total garbage, it's a shame it even exists, and even more of a shame that we can't at least have the original, working version where the enemies aren't randomly missing hitboxes, or confined to a small section of the map, and the Bain map had a sniping spot (and I say that now even though I wanted it a lot before it was released and discovered how crappy it actually is). I want Bigfoot to be an equal opportunity for all classes, not to favor one class more than another. Balancing one bad boss with another bad boss is not the way to go.

[FelixTM]

Felix, I meant you can't pin Bigfoot without being able to KB him. It's just not possible. Puppet doesn't push him back, it just keeps him in one place. You'll lose ground on him no matter how good you are at Puppeting.

Edit: Btw, what did you think I meant by Puppet alone? Of course you can solo BF if you can KB him. I've seen it done plenty of times.

How weak do you have to be to not be able to KB Bigfoot? His KB is only 2k, isn't it? No one before 4th job should be fighting BF, anyway. Can't 12x BMs KB him with their crits? As long as you can KB with at least your crits (or some of your crits), you won't lose any ground using Puppet to hold him in the middle of the map. Heck, as long as you stay focused and recast Puppet right away, you won't lose ground even without KB.

I think it's just your use of "lose ground" that is confusing/bothering me. The only way you have to retreat and re-situate yourself is when a Jr Wraith hits you like right when Puppet disappears (or you dose off or something). Barring Jr Wraiths (not hard to keep them off you, anyway), how do you lose ground using Puppet?

By Puppet alone I assumed you meant using Puppet as the source of holding him, rather than using a wall. You meant using ONLY Puppet and no attacking skills...? Or what? That's pretty silly to even say. Puppet is nearly as effective as a wall, if you're good at using it. But obviously you have to attack. Lol

[Dusk]

How weak do you have to be to not be able to KB Bigfoot? His KB is only 2k, isn't it? No one before 4th job should be fighting BF, anyway. Can't 12x BMs KB him with their crits? As long as you can KB with at least your crits (or some of your crits), you won't lose any ground using Puppet to hold him in the middle of the map. Heck, as long as you stay focused and recast Puppet right away, you won't lose ground even without KB.

I think it's just your use of "lose ground" that is confusing/bothering me. The only way you have to retreat and re-situate yourself is when a Jr Wraith hits you like right when Puppet disappears (or you dose off or something). Barring Jr Wraiths (not hard to keep them off you, anyway), how do you lose ground using Puppet?

By Puppet alone I assumed you meant using Puppet as the source of holding him, rather than using a wall. You meant using ONLY Puppet and no attacking skills...? Or what? That's pretty silly to even say. Puppet is nearly as effective as a wall, if you're good at using it. But obviously you have to attack. Lol
This is what happens when you don't read the rest of the thread. DrRusty proposed raising the KB to 15k. That's what prompted me to say that you can't hold Bigfoot back with Puppet alone.

[FelixTM]

This is what happens when you don't read the rest of the thread. DrRusty proposed raising the KB to 15k. That's what prompted me to say that you can't hold Bigfoot back with Puppet alone.

Actually I mainly just skimmed over both of your back and forth proving each other wrong stuff (which I even said in the first post I made, so you could have pointed that out right away).

Regardless, I even said it'd still be possible to hold him with Puppet without KBing him... If you stand close and use Phoenix, there is very minor KBing (since the close + phoenix method seems to trigger his missing hitbox animations even more). Even with that method of less control, I still rarely lose ground. If you keep your chat box open and resummon Puppet right when the "Puppet disappearing" message appears, Bigfoot stays in the same spot.

Sometimes Bigfoot runs to the other side of the Puppet (side closer to you) which can cause problems, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll be losing ground. Without KB to get him back to the farther-from-you side, it'll really be more of a luck/where you cast Puppet situation. You could get lucky and have him run back to the good side of Puppet or you could move really close to BF right before the Puppet dies and resummon it a bit farther away. All of what I just said is assuming the 15k KB. Yes, it'd be slightly harder to maintain ground because you lose some control, but it wouldn't be impossible by any means. Wall pinning would certainly be impossible, but not Puppet pinning.

You said you'd have to risk "certain death every 10 seconds," which is a joke. Just for the sake or argument, I'll agree it'd be impossible to hold a 15k KB Bigfoot with Puppet. Okay. However, it still wouldn't be dangerous if you know what you're doing... Cast Puppet, attack 'til it disappears, lose a bit of ground, repeat. You'd do that until you get backed into the corner. When that happens, get on your mount (Hog or Mane, both work) and jump over Bigfoot and repeat the process the other way. You'd go back and forth across the map until Bigfoot is dead. Jumping Bigfoot is extremely easy and never results in death unless you don't jump in time...

In fact, being unable to KB Bigfoot would actually make it much more fun. 15k KB is a great suggestion, and it doesn't make it impossible for ranged classes to kill it - just how they do it (mainly removes the cheap wall pin method). So I still don't know what you're talking about.

[DrRusty]

You're very bad at reading comprehension. Maybe I should respond to your points individually o_o


...

6500 damage. Ranged classes raise their HP to 8k with HB for HT. 6500 damage is survivable without HP washing; you just need HB. This is exactly what you're asking for. What part of this are you not understanding?

6500 is way the hell to high for ranged classes even with HB. They shouldn't have to have HT hp to survive a non HT boss. 5k is enough for any non-washed ranged with HB to be able to survive at hit at early 13x. The whole thing i'm trying to suggest is make it so range classes can't keep bf back, but they can survive a hit.


Just because it exists doesn't mean you have to make more reasons for people to do it. HP and accuracy aren't the same thing at all.

1. Warriors don't instantly die when they don't have enough accuracy.

They don't die and neither does the monster they're trying to kill.

2. Accuracy is much easier to come by, as you've said. You can pot accuracy. Accuracy is basically the missing secondary stat Warriors are missing, since they don't need anything but STR to maximize damage. If a Warrior can't hit something, that's their fault for investing too much in trying to increase their damage. Archers, Pirates, and Thieves all have a secondary stat they need to invest in to wield their higher level weapons. Low HP is a crutch for ranged classes, not another secondary stat.

Of course accuracy and HP aren't the same thing, but they can be used in the same context to give an example. Both can have points added into them to help numb their classes weakness. I know range also have a secondary stat to put into, that's exactly why they have HP washing as a 2nd option.

3. Getting more accuracy does not shove absurd amounts of money at Nexon. No, you can MTS for anything, but someone is paying hundreds of dollars every time for the NX every time someone washes a few hundred HP.

Again.... that's how you want/wish things were. You don't want Nexon to make money off you increasing your HP. Well that's how the game is, sorry.

I'm aware of that. 6500 damage is survivable for both Pallys and Bucs.

I actually have 6400 HP at lvl 130.

Again, you keep misinterpreting what I'm trying to say, and it's getting really annoyng. I was responding to iFrancisco's point about 5k KB still being too little. I was arguing that it was not; that yes, you can't consistently KB it with 5k KB.

I know you can't consistently KB with a 5k, which is a good thing.

Read above. KILL THE pineappleING WASHING. It's not because I can't do it, because believe me, I can :f6:

You don't want washed characters to survive this thing without HB, that's why you want his touch to be ranged to 6500. If it was 5k, a washed ranged could solo and take touch damage. Just like you think leeching SHOULDN'T be implemented, you also don't think hp washing should. You keep trying to use what you think should be implemented to argue against a point that is implemented in the game.

I specifically said in an earlier post that I don't want it to be pinnable. I'm not going to bother arguing with you anymore. I spend half of each post correcting you because you can't be bothered to read my entire posts.

Dude you're the one who's not getting it.... or you're in denial about the HP washing thing..

@Felix...... <333

[Dusk]

Okay, 6k? 5.5k? What the hell. We're agreeing on the concept of a number but I don't know how much HP Bucs actually have.

@Felix: o_o I didn't know you could jump over Bigfoot. I know I can Recoil over him but I've actually never tried jumping over him on a mount. Never mind then. He needs to be smaller, though, I have no idea where his hitbox actually is.

[FelixTM]

Okay, 6k? 5.5k? What the hell. We're agreeing on the concept of a number but I don't know how much HP Bucs actually have.

@Felix: o_o I didn't know you could jump over Bigfoot. I know I can Recoil over him but I've actually never tried jumping over him on a mount. Never mind then. He needs to be smaller, though, I have no idea where his hitbox actually is.

Hm, I guess I thought you knew about that. Oh well, I'm glad we can see eye-to-eye on that now. I'm sorry for any rudeness/assumptions. I actually like how they made Bigfoot seem like he's intimidating and big, but he's really not. You clear his touch damage hitbox easily with even a Hog. I'm sure Haste can manage it, too (never tried that one). He's quite the deceiving boss (low hitbox, even though he's tall and a stomp that only does 1 dmg, instead of big damage).

I think the best improvements would be to raise his KB to something really high (like the suggested 15k), add the missing hitboxes to certain animations and leave the rest. I love the high touch damage because it limits how early melee can kill BF and prevents range from touching him. I would like the high KB because it allows warriors an edge if they can pin it, and it makes it a bit more interesting for ranged classes. Adding the missing hitboxes is just common sense. They're not really a problem, but it's pretty tacky to leave a mistake like that.

[Dusk]

Hm, I guess I thought you knew about that. Oh well, I'm glad we can see eye-to-eye on that now. I'm sorry for any rudeness/assumptions. I actually like how they made Bigfoot seem like he's intimidating and big, but he's really not. You clear his touch damage hitbox easily with even a Hog. I'm sure Haste can manage it, too (never tried that one). He's quite the deceiving boss (low hitbox, even though he's tall and a stomp that only does 1 dmg, instead of big damage).

I think the best improvements would be to raise his KB to something really high (like the suggested 15k), add the missing hitboxes to certain animations and leave the rest. I love the high touch damage because it limits how early melee can kill BF and prevents range from touching him. I would like the high KB because it allows warriors an edge if they can pin it, and it makes it a bit more interesting for ranged classes. Adding the missing hitboxes is just common sense. They're not really a problem, but it's pretty tacky to leave a mistake like that.

Yeah, I always thought that whenever I got cornered by BF I had to either log off or I was dead. Thanks for the tip, I feel dumb for wasting a ton of posts trying to figure out a way to make it doable for archers now.

Hm, that might work, but I'd really like to see it shifted to maps where low levels don't have to pass by to get up to CWK then. Changing Bigfoot in that manner would mean many of the people killing it right now would lose the ability to do so.

The same classes that can solo it efficiently right now would still be the only ones able to solo it (ranged classes and warriors), but it'd be harder for them and would require a party for some of the lower levelled ones. Not too shabby in my opinion, but I dunno if the people that don't play ranged classes like we do would agree.

[DrRusty]

Hm, I guess I thought you knew about that. Oh well, I'm glad we can see eye-to-eye on that now. I'm sorry for any rudeness/assumptions. I actually like how they made Bigfoot seem like he's intimidating and big, but he's really not. You clear his touch damage hitbox easily with even a Hog. I'm sure Haste can manage it, too (never tried that one). He's quite the deceiving boss (low hitbox, even though he's tall and a stomp that only does 1 dmg, instead of big damage).

I think the best improvements would be to raise his KB to something really high (like the suggested 15k), add the missing hitboxes to certain animations and leave the rest. I love the high touch damage because it limits how early melee can kill BF and prevents range from touching him. I would like the high KB because it allows warriors an edge if they can pin it, and it makes it a bit more interesting for ranged classes. Adding the missing hitboxes is just common sense. They're not really a problem, but it's pretty tacky to leave a mistake like that.

if they raised the KB to 15k (where only warriors could KB it) and kept his touch the same, warriors would just use this thing as a big furry ball of death :f3:. They'd just rush the thing into everyone

[Sivrat]

if they raised the KB to 15k (where only warriors could KB it) and kept his touch the same, warriors would just use this thing as a big furry ball of death :f3:. They'd just rush the thing into everyone

dont forget buccs, too. Corkscrew invincibility ftw. Well, not that you would forget buccs.

[Dusk]

if they raised the KB to 15k (where only warriors could KB it) and kept his touch the same, warriors would just use this thing as a big furry ball of death :f3:. They'd just rush the thing into everyone

All the more reason to get it off Twisted Paths.

[heronz]

if they raised the KB to 15k (where only warriors could KB it) and kept his touch the same, warriors would just use this thing as a big furry ball of death :f3:. They'd just rush the thing into everyone

they can do that now too?

with the weird KB, if timed corrected its rush-able? lol....KSers. i do admit BM are harder to kill than NLs.

edit: i only do that when someone(s) tries to KS my BFs.

[DrRusty]

they can do that now too?

with the weird KB, if timed corrected its rush-able? lol....KSers. i do admit BM are harder to kill than NLs.

edit: i only do that when someone(s) tries to KS my BFs.

It's harder for them to do it since they can only rush bigfoot when it isn't in its invincible mode, and when it's not being KB'd. If we took away all of its invincibility frames, and raised its KB, nothing can stop a warrior from rushing this thing into everyone.

[Stereo]

All the more reason to get it off Twisted Paths.

Without the danger what would be the point?

It's not like he stands on portals trying to kill people anyway, and in 19 channels there aren't gonna be 19 bigfoots.

[Dusk]

Without the danger what would be the point?

It's not like he stands on portals trying to kill people anyway, and in 19 channels there aren't gonna be 19 bigfoots.

The possibility of instant death on a spawn point is a bad idea. Especially if warriors are rushing it over the portals.

[FelixTM]

Yeah, there's always the chance of instant-death for low levels and ranged classes, but that's not really a big deal. That can happen at Tengu and Anego, too. It's actually really rare to come in the portal with a Bigfoot sitting on one of them. And sure there can be douches who would Rush it around and kill people, but that's pretty rare (unless you have a grudge with someone or something, I dunno). In all the Bigfoots I've killed, I've never once had anyone mess with it (except when it wasn't considered a boss).

I like the danger, honestly. It keeps me more focused than in bosses like Pap. I have several windows open when I Pap...and I pay very little attention. That's so boring. If Pap wasn't good money and easy exp, I wouldn't even bother.

[Shidoshi]

Yeah, there's always the chance of instant-death for low levels and ranged classes, but that's not really a big deal. That can happen at Tengu and Anego, too. It's actually really rare to come in the portal with a Bigfoot sitting on one of them. And sure there can be douches who would Rush it around and kill people, but that's pretty rare (unless you have a grudge with someone or something, I dunno). In all the Bigfoots I've killed, I've never once had anyone mess with it (except when it wasn't considered a boss).

I like the danger, honestly. It keeps me more focused than in bosses like Pap. I have several windows open when I Pap...and I pay very little attention. That's so boring. If Pap wasn't good money and easy exp, I wouldn't even bother.

tengu and anego are not on the way to weaker training maps. Also, people who go to himes can usually survive a touch from tengu.

[FelixTM]

tengu and anego are not on the way to weaker training maps. Also, people who go to himes can usually survive a touch from tengu.

Moot point. Anyone not too lazy to do the quests will never have to see a Bigfoot to get up to CWK. Other maps, like Leps, can be safely accessed, too. I know someone in Bera who regularly kills Tengu around the portal and kills almost anyone who walks in (evil guy). People do the same thing with Anego (jerks). Bigfoot is actually a bit safer because its maps don't have portals right against the walls.

[iFrancisco]

dont forget buccs, too. Corkscrew invincibility ftw. Well, not that you would forget buccs.

And also Shadowers, which is ironically his first class. Currently it takes me under 15 minutes with ciders, and that is with half of my attacks missing... All I would like to see is a fixed hit box and a slightly higher KB rate to prevent the ranged classes from pinning it, then I would be happy.

[Chameleonic]

The missing hit boxes for NLC/CWK monsters are intentional according to a post by NxProse in the Q&A thread, they wanted to try something different but it didnt work out as they intended...or we didnt "get it" and like what they were trying to do. lol