A Cheap bossing class.

[Sihan]

Please don't flame and tell me to decide on my self. If you don't want to help, just dont' post.

My problem is, i have a priest( i can use it as HS mule_ and i want to Make a class that can solo bosses easily.

And i do not want to spend alot of money on this game anymore(buying mesos, NX, HP washing, etc, etc)

I have a semi-hp washed lv 55 dexless sin in Mardia and i don't want to spend the money to XFer it to windia.. so i decided to remake something.

(I just came back to MS so i don't know much about pirates)
My thoughts were:

1. Make a dexless hero -Solo bosses-(maybe HT one day..)
2. Make a Bowmaster - Solo bosses only(fun)
3. Make a new Night lord - Solo bosses(fun)
4. Make a Pirate???Brawler?Gunslinger?

My preferences are Bowmaster and night lord, because i like ranged classes ALOT better..but i can't afford a godly NL, or to HP wash a bowmaster...
And my last question is that what is the gun pirate ship thingy that the pirate have? it seems to out damage everything....

[KajitiSouls]

I'd suggest making a Hero as it's not very hard to get a good weapon (an outrageous number of monsters drop Devil Sunrises, a lvl 90 2h sword) that you can get by with.

Bowmasters, I'd think there would be an HP problem since you said you didn't want to HP-wash much. If you're willing to put up with that issue and level a lot to mitigate your low HP problem, by all means go for it.

I'm no veteran with Pirates, so what I say next could be wrong xD

The 4th job Gunslinger's Battleship skill is a periodical skill that can be used or put away at will... until you sustain too much damage and the ship breaks. Then you'd have to wait for at least 90 seconds to be able to use a new ship.

I've heard that Brawlers are especially fun, in spite of less-than-optimal HP for a melee class and ranges. This is because their skills are best used in combinations, since some of their attacks have cool-downs. I've seen a 4th job Brawler do a crazy combo-styled attack on bosses, and the damage is fairly high (although how this compares to BMs or NLs, I don't know, but I'm betting they're still damage kings).

An obvious problem with choosing Pirates though is that their equipment is relatively new, so there aren't enough scrolled ones to be passed around, let alone good ones.

[shrinkie]

I think your best bet would be to go with a hero if you want to solo bosses early. Ranged classes would need to HP wash in order to do so unless you want to switch up for some HP gear but you'll lose some damage in the process.

[RoxStarz]

If you want a cheap bossing class NL's would be hard to beat.

1: You don't have to have the best equipment in the game to be a NL. SE and an Apple and you still outdmg every other class at bosses even with average equips.

2: Alchemist. 15 minute length onyx apples. Able to fight zak with popsicles instead of cheese. Alchemist is an amazing money saving skill, from extending the length of pots to allowing the use of much cheaper pots it has far reaching benefits.

3: mp consumption and avoid. Not that anyone really looks hard at mp cost unless its arch mage ultimate, but for NL's its still miniscule. BM's use 9 mp per arrow, which at 8 to 9 arrows per second is 72 to 81 mp per second. Without cheating and looking at a table I think max TT is 19 mp per throw, so you are under 40 mp per second. Lets pretend you got max shadow shifter, well, even without shadow shifter many hits are going to miss. What doesn't hit you doesn't hurt your wallet.

The cheapest bossing class are NL's. That is why so many zhelm guilds go with 1 BM and 5 NL's. Not only for the NL's damage, because Hero's and BM's got very good dmg too, but because the NL's get more out of the apples than those other classes and are lighter on the pots.

[Sihan]

First of all, thanks for all your replies.

But, i think that a BM would be alot cheaper than an NL, not MP wise, but equip wise. EX: Stars.

But i love NLs, i used to have the godliest lv 9x sin ever..untill i quit and became a fool and gave everything to friends.

I like heroes and BM's too.

Heroes can boss early on if u have the ACC, but does less DMG than BM.
BM can boss early on if you have enough HP(which i dont want to HP wash).
Let's say both are lv 150, ofcourse BM outdamages hero..(right?)

[KajitiSouls]

The cheapest bossing class are NL's. That is why so many zhelm guilds go with 1 BM and 5 NL's. Not only for the NL's damage, because Hero's and BM's got very good dmg too, but because the NL's get more out of the apples than those other classes and are lighter on the pots.

Are you sure that's not from an excessive amount of NLs and a lack of BMs? I do admit BM and NL dps is comparable though.


Heroes can boss early on if u have the ACC, but does less DMG than BM.
BM can boss early on if you have enough HP(which i dont want to HP wash).
Let's say both are lv 150, ofcourse BM outdamages hero..(right?)

BMs do indeed outdamage Heroes.


Oh yeah, something to consider is the difference between a general boss and a warrior-unfriendly boss. Bosses that are extremely warrior-unfriendly would include Anego, The Boss, and Black Crow (Tengu) due to their short-ranged extreme damage.

[Sihan]

I think that making a BM would be cheaper than NL (Mesos and NX wise)

Because when i made a Sin, i was godly funded on mesos, and had to buy a few use slots for stars and HP wash alot.


I do want to make a hero, but my primary reason of playing MS is bossing, which they are weaker than BM's at.

[Kevo]

Having a HP Washed BM and Bishop myself, I'd have to say the Cheapest bossing class is Luckless Bishop :). I can solo bosses in about 20 Minutes for Papulatus and Fishy. 3-5 Minutes for Headless Horseman. Of course the disadvantage is the Holy Immune Bigfoot. Also, they are essential for Zakum and Bishop. If you don't HP Wash, then no hope for early HT.

Not to mention, you'd reach your Bossing dreams earlier due to Cleric -> Bishops being the fastest training class.

Not much need for Meso since being decent is relative cheap compared to other classes. No need for HP Washing as well. In fact, a Luckless Bishop would have more MP than typical Bishops and in a way, more HP due to Magic Guard.

[DrRusty]

Hero or dk. I would agree with BM if they had more hp. Hp washing is hella expensive.

Heros more for damage, and dks more for just getting into a run.

Corsairs are pretty cheap. Gun scrolls aren't expensive at all. They're better at DPS than NLs and BMs, and they have more hp.

[Shidoshi]

Having a HP Washed BM and Bishop myself, I'd have to say the Cheapest bossing class is Luckless Bishop :). I can solo bosses in about 20 Minutes for Papulatus and Fishy. 3-5 Minutes for Headless Horseman. Of course the disadvantage is the Holy Immune Bigfoot. Also, they are essential for Zakum and Bishop. If you don't HP Wash, then no hope for early HT.

Not to mention, you'd reach your Bossing dreams earlier due to Cleric -> Bishops being the fastest training class.

Not much need for Meso since being decent is relative cheap compared to other classes. No need for HP Washing as well. In fact, a Luckless Bishop would have more MP than typical Bishops and in a way, more HP due to Magic Guard.

bishops are nowhere near melee classes in soloing speed for bosses. They are really wanted for boss parties, but not that good for boss solos.

[Sihan]

I do plan on getting it to a bishop. But i also want an attacker..such as BM

[Kaasoljoyyx]

If you want a cheap bossing class NL's would be hard to beat.

1: You don't have to have the best equipment in the game to be a NL. SE and an Apple and you still outdmg every other class at bosses even with average equips.

Corsair > NL in dps. kthnxbai


bishops are nowhere near melee classes in soloing speed for bosses. They are really wanted for boss parties, but not that good for boss solos.

Question was "Which one is the cheapest" and bishops are the cheapest. Minimal pot cost, less damage taken, etc...

[Sihan]

I don't think Corsairs are better than NL since they have to wait for their ship.

And Bishops are probably the highest pot cost.

I'm leaning towards BM.

[Avenge]

Corsair > NL in dps. kthnxbai.

Except we don't sit in a little ship with 100% speed/jump that can go BOOM! ehehe :(

[Kevo]

I don't think Corsairs are better than NL since they have to wait for their ship.

And Bishops are probably the highest pot cost.

I'm leaning towards BM.

I use less than 1.5mil worth of pots every 4 hours. Almost 400k meso per hour, not that bad f3. Plus the fast leveling makes up for the pot costs.

[Holypie]

Except we don't sit in a little ship with 100% speed/jump that can go BOOM! ehehe :(
don't you stand in one spot anyways? also with good reation time you can dismount in a moments notice.

[Sihan]

Ok, can i please get some positive stuff about bowmaster pls? lol

[shrinkie]

Ok, can i please get some positive stuff about bowmaster pls? lol


I love my BM to death, don't get me wrong lol.. but I had to wash quite a bit in order to solo Pap at 12x. Since you don't want to HP wash, go with a BM if you're willing to wait to do boss solos at later levels.

[Sihan]

How much did you wash to be able to boss at 12x. And around how much mesos do u need for decent eqs?

[Sinnuendo]

Ok, can i please get some positive stuff about bowmaster pls? lol


Good DPS, wanted in boss parties for SE, and their equips aren't that expensive. Their only problem is their low HP without washing/pumping AP into HP.

If you don't mind waiting a year, you could go Marksman instead. They have better DPS in all jobs except 4th (which will change when 4 second Snipe comes to GMS, in which case they'll outdamage all classes except Corsairs), also get SE, and can freeze. Also, crossbows are a lot cheaper than bows.

[Greg22]

Make a Hero. Not only are they the class that can solo bosses such as Pap the earliest, but they've got a great, satisfying 4th job. Unlike NLs, you don't have to spend a billion mesos to make an ideal character, and even with half-decent equipment you'll find yourself soloing things more efficiently than your buddies around the same level (Night Lords not included).

BMs have low HP, which means you're going to have to HP wash if you even want to solo a Manon or Griffey by 140. BMs also get raped up the ass by Pap's bombs until 145ish, which means you'll have to go through the hassle of learning how to dodge them. Heroes, on the other hand, can tank whatever the hell they want, even at Lv120.

The only boss pros that BMs have is their SE, along with their range which allows them to solo Bigfeet.

[shrinkie]

How much did you wash to be able to boss at 12x. And around how much mesos do u need for decent eqs?

Oh gosh, I don't remember exactly but it was somewhere around 45-50? And idk about your world's prices so I can't really answer your 2nd question o.0 Other than gloves and cape, FS is optional I guess, rest of the stuff isn't expensive. Another thing is prob SE 30. I failed like 3 at 120-130m a pop. Wasn't pretty.

[DrRusty]

Ok, can i please get some positive stuff about bowmaster pls? lol


Dude... If you were gonna pick bowmaster no matter what, then y did u make the thread? Judging by the majority of the classes stated so far, hero is the obvious winner. They can do very high single target and mobbing DPS while having high hp and a physical dmg defense skill. Not to mention speed infusion makes it not necessary to go for the more expensive 1h sword + atk shield combo.

Once the kmst updates come to gms, marksmen are going to be one of the top classes. Give them speed infusion, and there's no competition. Not to mention xbows are cheap as dirt.

[Sihan]

That's true. I can make a marksman. When is it coming? and as of right now. Hurricane > Strafe...


i've never seen a hero do BF, can they?

[shrinkie]

That's true. I can make a marksman. When is it coming? and as of right now. Hurricane > Strafe...


i've never seen a hero do BF, can they?

Yes I've seen lots of them solo BF.

[TamilTiger1]

Corsair > NL in dps. kthnxbai



Question was "Which one is the cheapest" and bishops are the cheapest. Minimal pot cost, less damage taken, etc...

At bosses high level NL's would use very little pot. Even less than bishop due to their insane avoidability. At zak they'll use less than 100 pot even when the run is near 20-30min.

Also my bowmaster at zak uses quite a lot of pots. It goes through about 3 times as much as the NL. But bowmasters are fun to go and solo bosses with. Pap can be killed a lot faster with bowmasters and heros compared to NLs solo. Either NL or BM you'll have to spend some money washing if you want to solo bosses or go major bosses in party. Heros you can solo most of the bosses without much funding but they can't go to some bosses until extremely high levels. You should probably move your dexless sin from the other server since you already spend some nx washing it, well if you decide to go with NL that is.

[Sihan]

At bosses high level NL's would use very little pot. Even less than bishop due to their insane avoidability. At zak they'll use less than 100 pot even when the run is near 20-30min.

Also my bowmaster at zak uses quite a lot of pots. It goes through about 3 times as much as the NL. But bowmasters are fun to go and solo bosses with. Pap can be killed a lot faster with bowmasters and heros compared to NLs solo. Either NL or BM you'll have to spend some money washing if you want to solo bosses or go major bosses in party. Heros you can solo most of the bosses without much funding but they can't go to some bosses until extremely high levels. You should probably move your dexless sin from the other server since you already spend some nx washing it, well if you decide to go with NL that is.

Thanks for the info, but what are the few boses you speak of?

[sicnarf]

Those few bosses would be the ones that do an assload of damage:


Oh yeah, something to consider is the difference between a general boss and a warrior-unfriendly boss. Bosses that are extremely warrior-unfriendly would include Anego, The Boss, and Black Crow (Tengu) due to their short-ranged extreme damage.

[Kaasoljoyyx]

@ NL vs bish in pot cheapness: Yes for being cheapest, maybe NLs are cheaper. But cost = gears also. And last I checked, a bish can do what they need to do at most bosses with a 3k wooden wand at ellinia.

[Sihan]

@ NL vs bish in pot cheapness: Yes for being cheapest, maybe NLs are cheaper. But cost = gears also. And last I checked, a bish can do what they need to do at most bosses with a 3k wooden wand at ellinia.

Let's not continue that topic.

Right now, i'm debating between Hero, Marksman and bowmaster. I'll HP wash a little. So BM - Bossing, Hurricane=flashy sexy strong skill.

Marksman - Freeze, snipe, And then i hate always casting Strafe.

But with SI, and once they cap it to 199k snipe.(will they ever?)

[Stereo]

I'd suggest making a Hero as it's not very hard to get a good weapon (an outrageous number of monsters drop Devil Sunrises, a lvl 90 2h sword) that you can get by with.

Bowmasters, I'd think there would be an HP problem since you said you didn't want to HP-wash much. If you're willing to put up with that issue and level a lot to mitigate your low HP problem, by all means go for it.

The thing about an HP problem is that it just doesn't apply to most bosses if you have range.

Bigfoot and HH can be completely pinned by a NL/BM ensuring they never take damage (starting at about 9x you can solo HH, a little higher for BF so you don't do crap damage). Anego and Crow too, though Anego has a higher damage requirement. Pianus is the only 3rd job/early 4th job boss that would cause a ranged character problems, since it does unavoidable 5k over the entire map. Zakum never breaks 3.1k damage making it possible to survive in the middle of 3rd job.

And when you can avoid taking damage completely, you save lots of money bossing/training, which goes directly into the cost of items. Hermits cost a lot because they make a lot. When every hermit is "rich" compared to heroes, of course their gear costs a lot more.

[ItachiPower]

The cap is already 199k for snipe.

Hero's have a high DPM too.

[Shidoshi]

The cap is already 199k for snipe.

Hero's have a high DPM too.

what? they already implemented that? when was it? I didn't hear about it anywhere on south perry (and i browse the training center and general forums daily)

[ItachiPower]

Actually it's DPS http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7019

[KajitiSouls]

The thing about an HP problem is that it just doesn't apply to most bosses if you have range.

Bigfoot and HH can be completely pinned by a NL/BM ensuring they never take damage (starting at about 9x you can solo HH, a little higher for BF so you don't do crap damage). Anego and Crow too, though Anego has a higher damage requirement. Pianus is the only 3rd job/early 4th job boss that would cause a ranged character problems, since it does unavoidable 5k over the entire map. Zakum never breaks 3.1k damage making it possible to survive in the middle of 3rd job.

And when you can avoid taking damage completely, you save lots of money bossing/training, which goes directly into the cost of items. Hermits cost a lot because they make a lot. When every hermit is "rich" compared to heroes, of course their gear costs a lot more.

The Rangers/Hermitss had to be pretty high lvl or have HB last time I checked. That's reliance on a DK.

Also, what about Pap's bombs? Not much stopping him from blowing you to smithereens.

Of course, the bosses usually either fall into the "easy prey for range" category or "it'll hit you no matter what" category. The mainstream MS bosses are in the latter.

Good point about every NL being rich in the ass though. Never thought about it that way xD

[Technolink]

The cap is already 199k for snipe.

Hero's have a high DPM too.

To my knowledge GMs does not have 199k limit, nor does it have 4/5 second snipe.

But if KMS gets these, we likely will too.

As of your dilemma now, You're going to have to HP wash on a bowmen, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to wash the point back out.

I know quite a few bowmen who just put 50 points in HP and never reset them from MP to DEX. Remember, 50 points is only ~10atk, so it isn't a HUGE deal to have the in your HP. Otherwise, it is very expensive to reset every point out.

The BM vs MM thing is iffy right now. If we get those KMS updates, (4/5 sec snipe + 199k cape), a MM would outdamage everyone (including Cosair and NL+SE). But there's not a 100% guarentee we are going to get those updates, and if we do it might not be for a 6-12 months.

Hero is a safe choice. On another note, in the same KMST patch where snipe got down to 4 seconds, Rage got boosted to 12 atk.

[Tir]

Also, what about Pap's bombs? Not much stopping him from blowing you to smithereens.

Just learn to avoid them. I believe it's a bit easier on a hermit/nl than a ranger/bm though.

[Stereo]

I know quite a few bowmen who just put 50 points in HP and never reset them from MP to DEX. Remember, 50 points is only ~10atk, so it isn't a HUGE deal to have the in your HP. Otherwise, it is very expensive to reset every point out.


How much atk it is worth depends on too many things to even say something like that:f7: Why not say it for what it is, 50 dex out of an ever increasing amount (by level 120, ~600, by 160 ~850-900)


The Rangers/Hermitss had to be pretty high lvl or have HB last time I checked. That's reliance on a DK.
At most of the bosses that require this you'd be in a party anyway to reduce time spent killing. Of course you can't solo Zakum at 3rd job on a Hermit/Bowman. But at the same level a Warrior often can't get the accuracy to even hit similar bosses.

Papulatus' bombs can be avoided with FJ and eventually stop spawning on the bottom floor.

[Dusk]

[color=#a000e0]At most of the bosses that require this you'd be in a party anyway to reduce time spent killing. Of course you can't solo Zakum at 3rd job on a Hermit/Bowman.

Papulatus' bombs can be avoided with FJ and eventually stop spawning on the bottom floor.

Wait, why not? :f6:

[Stereo]

It does too much damage to unwashed people :x I won't have 3000 base HP until level 116 and I don't think that's abnormal.

[Avenge]

don't you stand in one spot anyways? also with good reation time you can dismount in a moments notice.

They also don't have the avoid to stay in one place for a long time. Their DPS depends on gameplay and certain situations, ours isn't.


The Rangers/Hermitss had to be pretty high lvl or have HB last time I checked. That's reliance on a DK.

Also, what about Pap's bombs? Not much stopping him from blowing you to smithereens.


http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1559/maple1232do8.jpg

yarite.

[Sihan]

Did you wash at lv 121 to get 3.1k HP?

[Kaasoljoyyx]

I believe he had to or is wearing a little hp gear. I think at 12x you're at like 2.8~2.9k base for ranged.

[butterfλi]

Downside of heroes is that they're not really bossing material until 13x or even 14x.

Brandish alone is strong but without a decent level of AC, they're just so-so. Supply and price of Brandish30 and stance20 is also a problem. Crusader levels will be slower than NLs and BMs... assuming no body's comparing newtie-leeching here.

BMs and NLs face the same HP problem except NLs have more avoid and mobility to evasions.

[Avenge]

Did you wash at lv 121 to get 3.1k HP?

No. And I think the only HP gear i'm wearing is a 60 HP Zhelm (since there were no other scrolls for helmets back then).

[heronz]

That's true. I can make a marksman. When is it coming? and as of right now. Hurricane > Strafe...


i've never seen a hero do BF, can they?

i was BFing since 12x... but i stop because it took too long because i didnt know how to corner properly. then ppl started giving me apples to kill it for them and it became bearable. now im 136 and can BF in 26min w/o apples. with apple about 14-16mins.

pap is about 20-28min ish....mainly due to dispels and stuns.

[Styles]

^ knock back pap to the left connor go stand on the plathform and no dispels/stun :D

[heronz]

^ knock back pap to the left connor go stand on the plathform and no dispels/stun :D

no stance D= ... yet. im only 136, im still getting AC.

[Styles]

still beter than dispel/stun :P