Ice Splitter Uses Over Octopus

[drppnts4food]

Hi just approaching that level where Burst is maxed out (lvl 76) and am pondering whether to get Ice Splitter first or Octopus.

I've read the guide, which suggests to get Ice first but I don't really think it's justified. It doesn't say much apart from that it increases your training spots versatility from just training at jr newties. Some of the training places it has listed are places like STD's, Coolie Zombies ... but I don't really see how Ice is needed for those as I'd kill them off faster just using Invisible Shotor Burst.

I have not used Octopus yet but from what I've read, it increases your damage output significantly which is very tempting.

The only reasons I can see into putting points into Ice first is because later on when it mobs 6 targets, it has more uses, however that won't be till it has 16 or so points whereas Octopus seems to endow the benefits right away.

At the moment Im training on Slimys in the ghost ship. OHKOing them, which has led me to have some of these thoughts. I mean why would I need to freeze them if I'm just killing them? Seems a waste of time ... Where would I train for Ice Splitter to make a significant impact on my leveling speed?

I'm just typing as I think so I apologise if this post is not clear or concise. So what are your thoughts on this issue guys?

[JakeAndBake]

Ice splitter can freeze, which helps because gunslingers have low hp.
Octopus will kill faster, but you will burn pots without freezing.
If more damage is really THAT tempting you should have become a dexless sin, Slingers specialize in strategy

[drppnts4food]

Well you're not really answering my main question. Why would getting Ice Splitter first make gaining levels faster?

My issue is ... what am I freezing exactly? With the areas to train for 70/80 in the guide, I think I would be better off just using Invis Shot or Burst instead of freezing. And if i'm using those sort of offensive killing skills, wouldn't Octopus be better?

Also getting the most out of your octopus would also require strategy as you gotta know when to drop it! ;-)

[JakeAndBake]

An issue gunslingers have while training is mobs, since when they come too close, you can't attack. While octopus would be more useful for bosses or single targets, ice spitter can freeze 6 mobs a once and hold them there, meaning slingers can now train on flat maps with dense spawn, which was difficult before.

EDIT: In other words, using the example you gave, 'practice field beginner', try training there with good spawn. It's very difficult even with 1hkos and dash to get them away. and they're SLOW mobs. Fast mobs are incredibly hard, especcially when you can't 1HKO. I'd give anything for the ability to freeze a mob before they even started heading towards me.

[Corn]

Well you're not really answering my main question. Why would getting Ice Splitter first make gaining levels faster?

My issue is ... what am I freezing exactly? With the areas to train for 70/80 in the guide, I think I would be better off just using Invis Shot or Burst instead of freezing. And if i'm using those sort of offensive killing skills, wouldn't Octopus be better?

Also getting the most out of your octopus would also require strategy as you gotta know when to drop it! ;-)

Well, you gotta wait for Takebacker or Russt for the detailed explanations, but here's mine.

Newties. That's pretty much it due to Freezing. You're saving a lot of potions there.

If you want faster killing, though, and not worried about spending millions in potons, go Octopus.

[ShadyPriest]

Ice splitter isn't really for your 70-80 training spots, it's more for your 80+ training spots.

Also, octopus has a fairly limited use with it's short timer, immobility, and relatively low damage.

[JoeTang]

Don't listen to JakeAndBake. You won't need to freeze anything until 9x, to be quite honest, unless you for some reason want to get closer to Newties. Nothing should have the power to ohko you except a Jr. Newtie. If you want to train on stuff like that, Fake Shot will be more efficient since it lasts longer and the only skills that you have to unstun monsters are Gaviota, which you could just not use, or restun when it hits, and Octopus, which either should be on a different platform than you, or pinning the same monster as you're Burst Firing. I recommend learning one Octopus next level and moving on to Aqua to kill Squids.

[Russt]

Well, you gotta wait for Takebacker or Russt
Wait, what?

I'm mainly a numbers guy. Not a pirates guy. :f3:

[Takebacker]

An issue gunslingers have while training is mobs, since when they come too close, you can't attack. While octopus would be more useful for bosses or single targets, ice spitter can freeze 6 mobs a once and hold them there, meaning slingers can now train on flat maps with dense spawn, which was difficult before.

This is dumb reasoning because you cannot mob for pomegranate with splitter. Only with maxed burner does mobbing with splitter become viable.


EDIT: In other words, using the example you gave, 'practice field beginner', try training there with good spawn. It's very difficult even with 1hkos and dash to get them away. and they're SLOW mobs. Fast mobs are incredibly hard, especcially when you can't 1HKO. I'd give anything for the ability to freeze a mob before they even started heading towards me.

Where the hell are you training before himes that gives you better exp than newties and fit the "mob or die" fight style? Typhons suck ass for slingers, and windraiders are too low exp gain by the time you have max splitter/burner.


Ice splitter can freeze, which helps because gunslingers have low hp.

Low HP is not a con in this context because you're not going to be ohko'd by monsters you train on obviously. If we're going as far as newties, you'll barely take damage when sniping. Low HP only applies to a boss (which you will not be doing most likely unless leeching anego or something), where freeze is useless anyway.


Octopus will kill faster, but you will burn pots without freezing.

Octopus is for the newtie build. You don't burn HP pots if you're sniping newties. >__>


If more damage is really THAT tempting you should have become a dexless sin, Slingers specialize in strategy

Not entirely.

[Kaasoljoyyx]

If you're gonna newties, get octo right after burst fire so you get 11 octo and levle 80. Then you can get a point into ice if you want.

If you're not gonna newtie, then idk.

[Takebacker]

Well you're not really answering my main question. Why would getting Ice Splitter first make gaining levels faster?

My issue is ... what am I freezing exactly? With the areas to train for 70/80 in the guide, I think I would be better off just using Invis Shot or Burst instead of freezing. And if i'm using those sort of offensive killing skills, wouldn't Octopus be better?

Also getting the most out of your octopus would also require strategy as you gotta know when to drop it! ;-)

It depends where you train/want to train. If you're going the hime build (which makes leveling harder in the beginning because there's really nothing better than newties in 8x/9x), ice splitter and burner are to be maxed after burst fire.

If you're going the newtie build, which makes training much faster earlier on (i kinda want to avoid saying this since it's not confirmed how fast himes are for a mobbing outlaw >_>), octo is MUCH better. Ice splitter further increases your %/h once you can take a hit from newties as you can freeze the first one and kill the second before the first spawns, but you'll be high 9x and have high level splitter by the time that happens.

[JakeAndBake]

This is dumb reasoning because you cannot mob for pomegranate with splitter. Only with maxed burner does mobbing with splitter become viable.



Where the hell are you training before himes that gives you better exp than newties and fit the "mob or die" fight style? Typhons suck ass for slingers, and windraiders are too low exp gain by the time you have max splitter/burner.



Low HP is not a con in this context because you're not going to be ohko'd by monsters you train on obviously. If we're going as far as newties, you'll barely take damage when sniping. Low HP only applies to a boss, where freeze is useless anyway.



Octopus is for the newtie build. You don't burn HP pots if you're sniping newties. >__>



Not entirely.

I have just been owned:eek:

The guides in the pirate section should be revised so that spitter is maxed when we need it, and no sooner.:chin:

[Takebacker]

I have just been owned:eek:

The guides in the pirate section should be revised so that spitter is maxed when we need it, and no sooner.:chin:

It's already addressed and worked around in my build, i never really realized bribery had splitter after octo.

[Bribery]

By the time you get a 6 target Ice Splitter, you'll be training on much stronger monsters. It's essential to have a good form of mob control at places such as Black Kents or Death Teddies. Blank Shot can suffice but it's useless against larger mobs. There's also the accidental gun-whack which can unstun a monster.

Octopus really isn't useful outside of Newties in 3rd job. Getting Octopus early limits your level 8x-9x training spots to just Newties, which can be difficult in a crowded server.

Octopus isn't that helpful in the level 7x training spots because the time spent summoning it can be better spent on using Burst Fire. Like you said, you'd kill faster at those training spots using Invisible Shot or Burst Fire. The same can be said for Octopus over Ice Splitter in those levels. At least Ice Splitter provides great mob control.

[Takebacker]

By the time you get a 6 target Ice Splitter, you'll be training on much stronger monsters. It's essential to have a good form of mob control at places such as Black Kents or Death Teddies. Blank Shot can suffice but it's useless against larger mobs. There's also the accidental gun-whack which can unstun a monster.

Who trains at black kents and DTs anymore? O_O


Octopus really isn't useful outside of Newties in 3rd job. Getting Octopus early limits your level 8x-9x training spots to just Newties, which can be difficult in a crowded server.

Until the mini dungeon comes out.


Octopus isn't that helpful in the level 7x training spots because the time spent summoning it can be better spent on using Burst Fire. Like you said, you'd kill faster at those training spots using Invisible Shot or Burst Fire. The same can be said for Octopus over Ice Splitter in those levels. At least Ice Splitter provides great mob control.

Burst fire kills mobs faster than invis shot. O_O

[Kaasoljoyyx]

Pretty much for gunslingers, for the best exp rates imo, at least for 3rd, you wanna stick to 1v1 training. This pretty much pits you against newties until skele parties later. I hate mobs a lot as they just get in the way.

With that, newties is gonna be the best so you'll want octo. But yes, it is boring so it's good to have a tv or active blist/guild/alliance to chat to. Your exp really climbs when you can survive bottom and get mage on top, but that requires level 1+ ice splitter. Preferably more so you get the longer freeze time.

[Bribery]

Who trains at black kents and DTs anymore? O_O

They're viable training spots for that level range. Besides Newties, there aren't a lot of better options than DTs and Kents. But you're right, no one trains there because a lot of people leech through 3rd job.



Until the mini dungeon comes out.

And when will that be? Exactly.



Burst fire kills mobs faster than invis shot. O_O

I know.

[Russt]

What about Squids? Vikings?

[Takebacker]

They're viable training spots for that level range. Besides Newties, there aren't a lot of better options than DTs and Kents. But you're right, no one trains there because a lot of people leech through 3rd job.

Refer to saphs comment. :O



And when will that be? Exactly.

You and i both know it cannot possibly be more than one or two patches away. :f3:

[Bribery]

Refer to saphs comment. :O

Notice how I never said Kents and DTs were the ONLY training spots. I trained @ Squids for some of lvl 8x and Ice Splitter was very useful there, especially at the bottom where the mobs were large. Vikings also has very large mobs. They're also rather wide so you're more likely to gun whack there.

As for the mini dungeons, you never know when. It could be next patch, it could be next year. It's better not to base your build around Nexon's schedule given how much they suck.

[itzikd]

gobys training - ice
newties - oct
i got 11 oct and now im getting ice to 25 (6 monster)

[Chompy]

Notice how I never said Kents and DTs were the ONLY training spots. I trained @ Squids for some of lvl 8x and Ice Splitter was very useful there, especially at the bottom where the mobs were large. Vikings also has very large mobs. They're also rather wide so you're more likely to gun whack there.

As for the mini dungeons, you never know when. It could be next patch, it could be next year. It's better not to base your build around Nexon's schedule given how much they suck.
Also whenever the Mini-dungeon event rears its head (for good or evil depending on your view) Mini-dudgeon Newties will be unavailable.

[Kaasoljoyyx]

Then train somewhere else or get a map. Not like it's permanently gone.

[Chompy]

Then train somewhere else or get a map. Not like it's permanently gone.

If your build is- I KILLZ DEMZ N3WT5 and your mini-dungeons are gone- And the maps are full-
Then yes you are unable to train effectively.

[Dusk]

I'm doing an 11 Ice -> Max Octo -> 26 Ice build. I really have not found Ice to be incredibly useful for early 3rd job training, especially not at Windraiders and Squids. Blank Shot does basically the same thing until Ice is at a higher level, and Glaze capsules are a bit expensive at the moment, so my Ice is doing like 400 damage at level 78. Black Squids aren't even really worth stunning, anyway, I just shoot at them and tank the 1 damage shots. The only thing I really want Ice for is the occasional Goby house. Not having a mob skill sucks when fighting Gobies.

Octopus adds very little damage until you have it at a higher level. With my build, you get 11 Octopus at level 85, which is about when Newties become a decent training spot.


gobys training - ice
newties - oct
i got 11 oct and now im getting ice to 25 (6 monster)
What sane Outlaw trains at Gobies? Our mob skills do crappy damage, with the exception of Flamethrower, and Gobies are res to fire.

[Kaasoljoyyx]

If your build is- I KILLZ DEMZ N3WT5 and your mini-dungeons are gone- And the maps are full-
Then yes you are unable to train effectively.

Blank shot + burst fire at squids

[Dusk]

Blank shot + burst fire at squids

Octopus isn't entirely useless at squids, either. 11+ actually speeds things up quite a bit at the bottom and the 2nd/3rd row of platforms.

[Russt]

himes training - ice
newties - oct
i got 11 oct and now im getting ice to 25 (6 monster)
Fixed.

[Bribery]

Blank shot + burst fire at squids

I tried that. Ice is much better when you have larger mobs. Plus the monsters don't unfreeze when you gun-whack them.

[Kaasoljoyyx]

^Yea ice is better but it was in reference to the point of "You cannot train effectively anywhere else if you get octo directly after burst fire"