The point of the damage cap?

[Haseo]

I've never really been sure of what the purpose of the damage cap has been since its inception. I know private servers use high damage as a means of catching hackers, but this is a cap so it's not really the same. I thought about it and decided it might be for balance issues, but however much the cap is right now is pretty imbalanced in itself. :f6: Unless I am getting things wrong.

What is the point of the damage cap exactly? It just seems to gimp single hit skill utility and do nothing past that.

[Shidoshi]

It's the same as the meso cap, they assign a maximum number of bits to contain the damage information. For our current cap it's probably 19 bits so it can go up to 2^20 - 1 which is roughly 1m.

[Haseo]

I didn't know how it worked, thanks for that. But the main question was 'why even have a damage cap in the first place?'. :f6:

Unless you mean to say that it's like that because they couldn't/didn't wanna spare more bits or something...

[Locked]

..Er.
There is no "19 bit" number in here, lol.
The damage cap is just a limit the game puts for whatever reason. Most likely balance, if anything. Certain skills can break the damage cap such as Pierce, Arrow Bomb, Summons and that wild hunter rush skill I can't think of.

[Kalovale]

There's no reason to cap at 19 bit. Of course you can, but there's no reason to. I believe the game just goes commando and caps damage at 999999, possibly to combat hacks.

[Dark Link]

But, but...what about that Meso Explosion damage bug that occurred in KMST a long ass time ago? :f4:

http://i.imgur.com/EllJZ.jpg

[Liteness]

i too don't see the point of damage cap cause anyone with higher hits will always do more damage :f3: even though you could be stronger than they are

[Link]

If there wasn't any sort of damage cap, bosses would fall too easily. With the cap on HP being 2.1 billion, having players do much more than they already do will mean things will just fall apart too easily. I mean, look at Chaos Pink Bean... They can't make it "difficult" enough with 2.1 billion HP, so they have Pink Bean respawn when he dies so it resets the HP count.

The game would require some reworking for those values to be able to be increased. I don't think Nexon Korea cares enough to do that.

[Haseo]

There's no reason to cap at 19 bit. Of course you can, but there's no reason to. I believe the game just goes commando and caps damage at 999999, possibly to combat hacks.

But I've never seen anyone in the real servers hack their damage to 999999. And even if they did, that degree of damage is broken and unbalanced in its own right.


If there wasn't any sort of damage cap, bosses would fall too easily. With the cap on HP being 2.1 billion, having players do much more than they already do will mean things will just fall apart too easily. I mean, look at Chaos Pink Bean... They can't make it "difficult" enough with 2.1 billion HP, so they have Pink Bean respawn when he dies so it resets the HP count.

The game would require some reworking for those values to be able to be increased. I don't think Nexon Korea cares enough to do that.

That is a valid point, but it's ridiculously difficult and expensive to hit beyond the cap in the first place, isn't it?

Also, IMO, if anyone is opulent enough to spend that much money on potential to the point that they can consistently hit beyond the damage cap on 7 hit skills, they kinda deserve to. But that's just my opinion.

[Taarie]

Is there for balancing purpose, is easier for developers to make content knowing there's a damage cap, that way they can create a sense of difficulty when making new bosses.

[Stereo]

But I've never seen anyone in the real servers hack their damage to 999999. And even if they did, that degree of damage is broken and unbalanced in its own right.

It's uncommon, if the damage cap was, say, high enough to 1 hit PB, maybe there would be more effort invested. But "legitimate" gear on a hacked character can get you to the damage cap, so why bother?


It is of course possible to do 8-9 digit damage, there's no 19 bit cap..
http://i.imgur.com/FhXTt.jpg
(Bamboo hits 30% of hp, so that's 50,400,000)

[SwordStaker]

I also thought it would balance the game. Like @Link said it could break the game. Imagine a Merc instead of hitting 2m per Ishtar shot hit 20m. That would be a little wayyy too much..

[valhala556]

I also thought it would balance the game. Like @Link said it could break the game. Imagine a Merc instead of hitting 2m per Ishtar shot hit 20m. That would be a little wayyy too much..

that would give them the idea to actually balance power some. I would think anyway.

[inemnitable]

It's a longstanding tradition in RPGs for damage/stats/etc. to be capped at a certain number of digits--see every Final Fantasy game ever, just to name a few examples. There doesn't seem to be any real technical reason for damage to be capped at 6 digits--Maple tends to use signed 32 bit ints everywhere (why signed I have no clue, it's not like there's any negative numbers in the game). 6 digits is probably pretty much the limit of numbers people the magnitude of which people can distinguish quickly without commas/other separators, but I'm not sure if that's something Nexon is really thinking about. Most likely it's more about having *some* kind of hard cap on power level. It used to be 5 digits when that was hard to get to for most classes, but of course they had to raise it or their precious big bang and potential system would have been worthless. Then again they keep subverting it by making more and more classes which "circumvent" the damage cap by way of multi-hit or hurricane-type skills so in some sense you wonder if the one hand knows what the other hand is doing.

Based on the way they keep revamping classes to hit less damage more times, I'd say the cap isn't going anywhere any time soon.

[Dusk]

Maple tends to use signed 32 bit ints everywhere (why signed I have no clue, it's not like there's any negative numbers in the game).

It's good practice to use consistent typing; if HP was an unsigned 32 bit int and damage was a signed 32 bit int, you would have to do conversions every time you wanted to modify one variable using the other. Generally, it's best to stick to 32 bit ints unless you have a good reason to do otherwise.

[inemnitable]

It's good practice to use consistent typing; if HP was an unsigned 32 bit int and damage was a signed 32 bit int, you would have to do conversions every time you wanted to modify one variable using the other. Generally, it's best to stick to 32 bit ints unless you have a good reason to do otherwise.

Well power creep shows that signed 32 bit ints was a bad decision.

[yo72]

Well power creep shows that signed 32 bit ints was a bad decision.
1mil dmg cap isn't a horrible idea, having one item triple your damage on bosses is a bad decision

[inemnitable]

1mil dmg cap isn't a horrible idea, having one item triple your damage on bosses is a bad decision

Bosses with a maximum hp of 2^31 - 1 hasn't turned out so well, though.

[yo72]

Bosses with a maximum hp of 2^31 - 1 hasn't turned out so well, though.
How so? Nexon just needs to rebalance their game, and make bosses more then just sandbags to throw DPS at, or only sandbags during 20secsonds out of a minute

[Polantaris]

It's good practice to use consistent typing; if HP was an unsigned 32 bit int and damage was a signed 32 bit int, you would have to do conversions every time you wanted to modify one variable using the other. Generally, it's best to stick to 32 bit ints unless you have a good reason to do otherwise.

The only part that doesn't make sense is why they would need a signed int at all. I can't think of a single instance where a negative value is ever used. They could have easily used simple checks to make sure that when subtracting, they didn't go below 0 (Which I believe makes it wrap around to max? I forget, it's been a long time since I've needed to care about such an event). If they had, bosses could have more HP, there could be a higher Meso Limit (Which in the case of non-KMS versions would probably be a bad thing but that's regardless), and all kinds of other limits would be better.

That being said, Damage doesn't hit the cap signed or unsigned. It's a cap used so that people cannot be TOO powerful. Can you imagine someone who cashed so much that he does hundreds of millions a hit, or more? Having a damage cap allows Nexon to control damage while still making cashing insanely profitable in terms of DPS. There's huge amounts of improvement possible, but you can't get SO powerful that everything dies in seconds or less. If they want an ability to be able to do more than 1m an attack, they just give it more hits. If they think it does too much, they lower the hits. It's actually really pretty simple, from Nexon's side of things.


How so? Nexon just needs to rebalance their game, and make bosses more then just sandbags to throw DPS at, or only sandbags during 20secsonds out of a minute

That's asking Nexon to work. Such blasphemy.

[yo72]

That's asking Nexon to work. Such blasphemy.
As players, we have to ask them to go above and beyond
:f3:

[Polantaris]

As players, we have to ask them to go above and beyond
:f3:

We can ask all we want, plead even, but that doesn't mean they're going to listen or even remotely care.

[Stereo]

The only part that doesn't make sense is why they would need a signed int at all. I can't think of a single instance where a negative value is ever used.

Healing and poison use the same 16 bit signed int, or at least used to. One affects hp positively, the other negatively.

This is why venom doing over 32,767 would show blue healing numbers.

[yo72]

This is why venom doing over 32,767 would show blue healing numbers.
You sure it was because of that, because the only time I've seen blue poison dmg was pre-bb at gms exclusive neo city? I always thought it was because your poison dmg hitting over 99,999 and rolling back into blue going down

[CarrionCrow]

You sure it was because of that, because the only time I've seen blue poison dmg was pre-bb at gms exclusive neo city? I always thought it was because your poison dmg hitting over 99,999 and rolling back into blue going down

No, poweful NLs and Shads did blue venom damage pre BB.

[MrTouchnGo]

1mil dmg cap isn't a horrible idea, having one item triple your damage on bosses is a bad decision

It's a bad idea because some classes hit 20+ times a second while others are stuck at 6.

[Polantaris]

It's a bad idea because some classes hit 20+ times a second while others are stuck at 6.

Welcome to Nexon balance/logic. Hey, no one ever said they were any good at it!

[Kabanaw]

Really the best way to fix more numbers vs. bigger numbers is to create a cap on damage per skill use, not per individual number. But talking balance with a game with this much power creep is irrelevant in the first place.

[yo72]

It's a bad idea because some classes hit 20+ times a second while others are stuck at 6.
Mercedes offer nothing for a party as far as buffs and still relatively fragile compared to other classes so their only function is dps, other classes live easier/offer more to parties so their Hits/Dps/sec suffers
also regardless most classes in general should never hit the cap ever, only when using ultimates/other skills with long cooldowns

[MrTouchnGo]

Mercedes offer nothing for a party as far as buffs and still relatively fragile compared to other classes so their only function is dps, other classes live easier/offer more to parties so their Hits/Dps/sec suffers

That's very nice, but a class should not be hitting 4x others' damage just because they hit more times per second. This isn't a DPS issue, it's a hits/s issue.

[yo72]

That's very nice, but a class should not be hitting 4x others' damage just because they hit more times per second. This isn't a DPS issue, it's a hits/s issue.
And the hits/sec issue is only there because nexon can't balance their game, if it was correctly balanced every class wouldn't be hitting max dmg

[MrTouchnGo]

And the hits/sec issue is only there because nexon can't balance their game, if it was correctly balanced every class wouldn't be hitting max dmg

If, if, if, if, if.

The fact is that a static 1m damage cap is a terrible idea.

[Baklava]

Without the damage cap, bosses would be obliterated in seconds with the value of seconds going down as the input of cash goes up.

[Fiel]

Bosses with a maximum hp of 2^31 - 1 hasn't turned out so well, though.

It's turned out fine due to PDRate/MDRate.

Also, dealing with signed ints makes a lot of calculations easier.



//Using HP as a signed int
if(HP - DamageTaken <= 0)
{
PlayerDies();
}


versus...



//Using HP as an unsigned int
if(HP - DamageTaken == 0 || HP - DamageTaken > HP)
{
PlayerDies();
}


Having to deal with the fact that the variable could overflow makes the calculations more complicated and more prone to error.

[SaptaZapta]

Or, you know


// Works regardless of HP's type
if (DamageTaken >= HP)
{
PlayerDies();
}

[Fiel]

http://i.imgur.com/EvbZm.gif

[yo72]

If, if, if, if, if.

The fact is that a static 1m damage cap is a terrible idea.
Its perfectly fine if the game isn't broken, a terrible idea is making items that give you 80% boss dmg+nebulite. And what is worse is having these types of items available twice on one character. The gear in the game is broken not the dmg cap. Don't even reply to this I'm done if your too stupid to see how horrible the potential+nebulite system pineappleed over the game.
Also do you remember a time when 99,999 was the cap and yet the only people who bitched about a higher dmg cap where Ams because if they got that they could be somewhat? useful at bosses. Then the dmg cap got raissed to 199,999 and every1 bitched for the 1mil dmg cap because potential came.

[Sephie]

The only reason why the damage cap is a bad idea is because of the potential system.

There's no reasonable way to get close to the cap on clean equips alone; when potential and cubes get involved, the entire system that maple has lived on goes out the window.

Back when 99,999 was the cap, no one complained because no one could even hit it. Back then, the only things that were considered "pay2win" were Pam Songs, a couple GM scrolls, and Vegas. I don't remember exactly when people could restore slots or even hammer them.

[MrTouchnGo]

The cause doesn't really matter; at the end of the day, the damage cap is still a terrible idea.

[Locked]

The cause doesn't really matter; at the end of the day, the damage cap is still a terrible idea.

To you possibly.
A hardcap is necessary otherwise those "OP" classes would be doing a higher output/minute. Yes, hits/second is unfair to you but this can be fixed by removing the potential system or reworking the game to make hitting the cap harder. Hitting the cap is inevitable so I don't understand why it's even retarded.

[Kabanaw]

A reasonable cap is always needed for an RPG.

But I would love to see the game reworked so that no one ever hits near 1m each number. There's been huge number creep in this game for years. Whenever there's any imbalance in the game, they upped damage of every class to get closer to the strongest class. Then Big Bang happened, and numbers exploded in size; even though most mob's HP jumped up in turn, it still caused number inflation. There has never been an update scaling back the numbers of every class. And there probably never will be, since the rage over becoming less powerful would be insane.

[inemnitable]

It's turned out fine due to PDRate/MDRate.



The sad thing is that PDRate/MDRate are basically irrelevant for balancing purposes when you consider that well-equipped players will ignore 100% of it anyway. Considering that Empress has to heal herself 40 times and they had to make 15 different forms of Chaos Pink Bean, I'm not sure what definition of "fine" you're using.

[MrTouchnGo]

To you possibly.
A hardcap is necessary otherwise those "OP" classes would be doing a higher output/minute. Yes, hits/second is unfair to you but this can be fixed by removing the potential system or reworking the game to make hitting the cap harder. Hitting the cap is inevitable so I don't understand why it's even retarded.

You're overlooking the fact that a damage cap doesn't even have to be a static, everyone-hits-this cap. It could vary for each skill, weapon speed, class, whatever.

[yo72]

You're overlooking the fact that a damage cap doesn't even have to be a static, everyone-hits-this cap. It could vary for each skill, weapon speed, class, whatever.
You ever play pre-potential? Instead of complaining about the dmg cap, complain about how potential turned an MMORPG into a singleplayer grindfest of bigger numbers.

[KhainiWest]

You ever play pre-potential? Instead of complaining about the dmg cap, complain about how potential turned an MMORPG into a singleplayer grindfest of bigger numbers.

The potential system is retarded, but hackers exploited the f`uck out of it. It's more their fault the game is where it's at, not solely miracle cubes.

[MrTouchnGo]

You ever play pre-potential? Instead of complaining about the dmg cap, complain about how potential turned an MMORPG into a singleplayer grindfest of bigger numbers.

My point: the damage cap is stupid.

I couldn't care less what you think of the potential system.

[yo72]

The potential system is retarded, but hackers exploited the f`uck out of it. It's more their fault the game is where it's at, not solely miracle cubes.
http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb330/bossingam/arrow.jpg
This was before potential locks, imagine if the great Dino made it with 120% boss dmg, sad part is this is easily done with a stack of cubes, imagine this arrow+empress dual bow with similar potential+#1 dojo gloves. I'm not even including nebulites or other gear..... Ya the gear in this game isn't broken

[Jamesie]

Can't an argument easily be made (and I believe Locked has made some sort of it) that the damage cap prevents the game from being too pay-to-win? Yes I understand that you need to pay to get some of the better gear you just can't get in game, but if there were no damage cap, or even if the damage cap was made higher since "cap too ez 2 hit llz." I do agree that some skills should just not have a cap/or have a noticeably higher cap (some skills can be like Pierce, and ultimates can be cap-less). But then next thing you know, one bossing class has the cap on its bossing skill increased and then that's just the newest OP piece of shit to hit the market and then to balance it out, Nexon adds the feature to key bossing skills and then next thing you know we're back to square 1 with a higher cap and then the cycle continues.

I understand that some of you may have paid up the butt to make yourself hit cap with everything (even that crouching basic attack), but then there are some of us who are just never going to hit cap, and increasing the cap just so you can spend more money (and then, ironically, whine about Nexon?) isn't really a thing.

[Kabanaw]

Can't an argument easily be made (and I believe Locked has made some sort of it) that the damage cap prevents the game from being too pay-to-win? Yes I understand that you need to pay to get some of the better gear you just can't get in game, but if there were no damage cap, or even if the damage cap was made higher since "cap too ez 2 hit llz." I do agree that some skills should just not have a cap/or have a noticeably higher cap (some skills can be like Pierce, and ultimates can be cap-less). But then next thing you know, one bossing class has the cap on its bossing skill increased and then that's just the newest OP piece of shit to hit the market and then to balance it out, Nexon adds the feature to key bossing skills and then next thing you know we're back to square 1 with a higher cap and then the cycle continues.

I understand that some of you may have paid up the butt to make yourself hit cap with everything (even that crouching basic attack), but then there are some of us who are just never going to hit cap, and increasing the cap just so you can spend more money (and then, ironically, whine about Nexon?) isn't really a thing.

The problem is more that some classes have more hits per skill use than others. If one class hits 10 times at 100% and another hits 5 times at 200% at the same speed, but both hit the damage cap, then the class that hits 10 times will do double the damage.

[Jamesie]

The problem is more that some classes have more hits per skill use than others. If one class hits 10 times at 100% and another hits 5 times at 200% at the same speed, but both hit the damage cap, then the class that hits 10 times will do double the damage.
Some classes with slower hits achieve the damage cap much sooner than classes with Hurricane skills. I understand your point, that now the late-game dps is all about how many hits your class does, but at the end of the day, which is the better class for someone to play if they're not going to fund much if at all? Phantom or F/P Arch Mage? Mercedes or Hero?

[CarrionCrow]

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb330/bossingam/arrow.jpg
This was before potential locks, imagine if the great Dino made it with 120% boss dmg, sad part is this is easily done with a stack of cubes, imagine this arrow+empress dual bow with similar potential+#1 dojo gloves. I'm not even including nebulites or other gear..... Ya the gear in this game isn't broken
You can't lock lines on legendary items anyway.

Thing is that most of these items are made by using NX that the hackers have amassed, and it would not have been remotley possible without illegitimate methods. The potential system is broken and needs to be nerfed without any doubts, but as KhainiWest pointed out, the situation would not have been quite this bad this if not for the scumbags.

[MrTouchnGo]

Some classes with slower hits achieve the damage cap much sooner than classes with Hurricane skills. I understand your point, that now the late-game dps is all about how many hits your class does, but at the end of the day, which is the better class for someone to play if they're not going to fund much if at all? Phantom or F/P Arch Mage? Mercedes or Hero?

It's not even hard (relatively speaking) to hit cap with certain classes, and that's the problem. It's pathetic when you're capping on all of your lines and have no room to improve yet you're still getting outdamaged by people who aren't capping but can hit more times. I'm not saying there should be no cap at all, which yo72 and Locked seem to love to miss, I'm just saying the existing cap was a stupid idea and doesn't balance classes properly. Why penalize someone for playing a class they enjoy but hits harder but slower?

[CarrionCrow]

It's not even hard (relatively speaking) to hit cap with certain classes, and that's the problem. It's pathetic when you're capping on all of your lines and have no room to improve yet you're still getting outdamaged by people who aren't capping but can hit more times. I'm not saying there should be no cap at all, which yo72 and Locked seem to love to miss, I'm just saying the existing cap was a stupid idea and doesn't balance classes properly. Why penalize someone for playing a class they enjoy but hits harder but slower?

The damage cap would be fine if they just did some thinking and nerfed potential to cap at reasonable heights. Say 30-50% max somewhere of any option. that would still make people use cubes to hell, and it would open up the usefulness of other lines such as + skill or increased invincibility after hit.

[KhainiWest]

This was before potential locks, imagine if the great Dino made it with 120% boss dmg, sad part is this is easily done with a stack of cubes, imagine this arrow+empress dual bow with similar potential+#1 dojo gloves. I'm not even including nebulites or other gear..... Ya the gear in this game isn't broken

I don't see how that's relevant to my argument. If you re-read my post, I said the potential system is currently broken, it need's touching up. The problem is, the very weapon you show me probably wouldn't be a common piece end game gear if

1) It couldn't be duplicated
2) Mts didn't fund thousands of dollars worth of NX.

The point is, although the potential has a high reward with a high cost, hacker's completely took away the cost for the reward and passed it along. Now that nexon is cleaning up, it's even more expensive as the items become more limited and it becomes even harder to replicate those items.

[EternalRain]

I don't see how that's relevant to my argument. If you re-read my post, I said the potential system is currently broken, it need's touching up. The problem is, the very weapon you show me probably wouldn't be a common piece end game gear if

1) It couldn't be duplicated
2) Mts didn't fund thousands of dollars worth of NX.

The point is, although the potential has a high reward with a high cost, hacker's completely took away the cost for the reward and passed it along. Now that nexon is cleaning up, it's even more expensive as the items become more limited and it becomes even harder to replicate those items.

Your point is pretty hypocritical. You're complaining that the hackers took away the cost of the reward (pot) by duplicating it, and giving it to everyone. Then you go on to complain that Nexon cleaning up makes the items more limited, and it's harder to replicate them? As you already said, "potential has a high reward with a high cost". So if the duped items are more limited, in your earlier perspective, that would be a good thing as everyone's paying loads for that type of gear. But then you somehow implied that having these items be "limited" is a bad thing, as it's "harder to replicate them". Well, obviously. You'll actually have to cube it yourself now, which means you'll pay at least around 5-6x more than the duped cost. :f3: And it's not "harder to replicate" when Nexon created those new cubes that increase the chance of making more than 1 Legendary line on a Legendary equip, rather than having 1 Legendary Line with 2 Unique lines.

The point about duping reducing Nexon's profits has always been a moot point. Yes, the MTS did concentrate thousands of dollars of NX into the hands of the dupers, and let them have items for far less than their legitimate cost. But it also did increase the average standard for damage, which is another reason why people actually started buying 38 atk VSS and 301 cravens. My point is, had duping not been there, would the money "lost" from people buying duped equips and not buying their CS equivalents, actually have been spent? If the damage standard wasn't raised that much for the norm, because everyone has the same equips, would there be that much demand to upgrade equips? My thinking is no, Nexon actually made more profit off of everyone buying duped gear, than removing them from the get-go, which is why they stalled on their actions against them until market saturation came into play.

[RedRaven16]

Duping reduced Nexons profits when a duper duped oh say a Unique item with really good pot. Then when the hacker sold the dupes for less then what it would cost in nx to make the item Nexon would be losing profits, and considering most hackers sold these items and wanted moneypack or whatever it was Nexon would lose out on even more money.

[KhainiWest]

Your point is pretty hypocritical. You're complaining that the hackers took away the cost of the reward (pot) by duplicating it, and giving it to everyone. Then you go on to complain that Nexon cleaning up makes the items more limited, and it's harder to replicate them? As you already said, "potential has a high reward with a high cost". So if the duped items are more limited, in your earlier perspective, that would be a good thing as everyone's paying loads for that type of gear. But then you somehow implied that having these items be "limited" is a bad thing, as it's "harder to replicate them". Well, obviously. You'll actually have to cube it yourself now, which means you'll pay at least around 5-6x more than the duped cost. :f3: And it's not "harder to replicate" when Nexon created those new cubes that increase the chance of making more than 1 Legendary line on a Legendary equip, rather than having 1 Legendary Line with 2 Unique lines.

You're reading it incorrectly, by having duping in the first place, fixing it actually escalates the problem even more if they don't clean it up properly. Aka leftovers. Nexon intended a high cost for those equip's that are presently on the market, instead hackers made it a standard.


The point about duping reducing Nexon's profits has always been a moot point. Yes, the MTS did concentrate thousands of dollars of NX into the hands of the dupers, and let them have items for far less than their legitimate cost. But it also did increase the average standard for damage, which is another reason why people actually started buying 38 atk VSS and 301 cravens. My point is, had duping not been there, would the money "lost" from people buying duped equips and not buying their CS equivalents, actually have been spent? If the damage standard wasn't raised that much for the norm, because everyone has the same equips, would there be that much demand to upgrade equips? My thinking is no, Nexon actually made more profit off of everyone buying duped gear, than removing them from the get-go, which is why they stalled on their actions against them until market saturation came into play.

Please quote/bold where I said anything about profits? I hear all this talking but nothing substantial is coming out of it besides point's you're making up.

[EternalRain]

You're reading it incorrectly, by having duping in the first place, fixing it actually escalates the problem even more if they don't clean it up properly. Aka leftovers. Nexon intended a high cost for those equip's that are presently on the market, instead hackers made it a standard.


Thank you for restating what I said in the "second paragraph" that you probably skimmed over. Hackers made it standard because they duped them, as I said right here "But it also did increase the average standard for damage". How is the problem escalated if Nexon leaves a few leftovers behind but removes mostly everything? A few people have the gear. Big deal. The "average standard for damage" is now lowered. Yes, in your elite circle of friends, maybe a lot of people still have the gear, so it might seem that the "average damage standard" is much higher than the pre-dupe standard. However, average as in, number of hacked equips/number of players, or total "damage/total players, removing most of them got the average much closer to "pre-dupe" standards so everything is much better.

Yes, there are quite a few equips on the market. But haven't you seen that their prices are rising? That's what Nexon wanted anyway - if the duped item's price is getting closer to how much it would cost to legitimately make it, that's good for the game.

[MrTouchnGo]

Thank you for restating what I said in the "second paragraph" that you probably skimmed over. Hackers made it standard because they duped them, as I said right here "But it also did increase the average standard for damage". How is the problem escalated if Nexon leaves a few leftovers behind but removes mostly everything? A few people have the gear. Big deal. The "average standard for damage" is now lowered. Yes, in your elite circle of friends, maybe a lot of people still have the gear, so it might seem that the "average damage standard" is much higher than the pre-dupe standard. However, average as in, number of hacked equips/number of players, or total "damage/total players, removing most of them got the average much closer to "pre-dupe" standards so everything is much better.

Yes, there are quite a few equips on the market. But haven't you seen that their prices are rising? That's what Nexon wanted anyway - if the duped item's price is getting closer to how much it would cost to legitimately make it, that's good for the game.

You're going on and on about the average damage standard when it really has no relevance to his original post that was about hackers exploiting the potential system.

[KhainiWest]

How is the problem escalated if Nexon leaves a few leftovers behind but removes mostly everything? A few people have the gear. Big deal. The "average standard for damage" is now lowered. Yes, in your elite circle of friends, maybe a lot of people still have the gear, so it might seem that the "average damage standard" is much higher than the pre-dupe standard. However, average as in, number of hacked equips/number of players, or total "damage/total players, removing most of them got the average much closer to "pre-dupe" standards so everything is much better.


I know you have problems seeing past your condescending attitude but let me elaborate why it's still a problem. You have an entire generation of players with gear that is unmatched by legitimate means. It's as the phrase goes, the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. The demand of these items will only increase, do you know why? Because you can't replicate it. And it will be years before that gear is overlapped by something greater.

Another FYI is it's retarded to contain everyone who plays maplestory as a legitimate average of damage. When it get's down to it's a low ratio of who actually participates to end game content. Also thinking about the long term effect's, which I'm sure you have no idea considering you probably have been playing since like 08, is that this gear becomes priceless, until something completely over takes it, which means a very large method of making bank, so they still benefit from those exploits.

This is all assuming nexon can ever remove all equipment. Things like attack masks/vss, will always be in the game because there's really no proof at this point if it's plausible or not, including scrolls to scroll it. Maplestory can attempt to heal itself again, but frankly it just makes it even more inprobable that a new generation will ever get accomplish things an entire illegit generation has.

Also to elaborate, I did skim your post, as soon as I saw you suggesting that nexon's business model was actually adapted to benefit off the hacker's general business, I just saw all your credibility go down the drain.

[VirgilDiablo]

It's the same as the meso cap, they assign a maximum number of bits to contain the damage information. For our current cap it's probably 19 bits so it can go up to 2^20 - 1 which is roughly 1m.

it has nothing to do with programming, it's purely arbitrary. it used to be 99999, then it was raised to 199999, and so on as balance dictated, and continues to do so

edit: didn't see how old this post was when i responded to it..

[Lucinde]

It is interesting how the developers were releasing characters with more and more hits per second, until the recent debut of Angelic Burster.
As if they have realized the potential of characters with fast multihit skills, and the amount of interest players had towards them as more hits means more damage under the damage limit.

[Rith]

well, all i know is dmg cap(if there were no cap at all like pierce etc.) it's same as meso cap,i mean 32 bit cap, 2,1b