Weaponless Dmg Formula?

[Hazzy]

As your may or may not know, Pirates can attack without a weapon. If you unequip your weapon, you have a dmg range too. (lolduh?) Anyway, around lv 16, I noticed it was a little higher without a weapon than with the lv 10 default Knuckle. Tested again, at level 31, and it's nearing double. :O
So, anyone know the dmg formula for Pirates when they don't have a weapon equiped?

[Russt]

Attack = level, STR multiplier of 3.0?

Edit: I just realized that that might actually be close despite my answer being a complete guess.

[Takebacker]

Attack = level, STR multiplier of 3.0?

Edit: I just realized that that might actually be close despite my answer being a complete guess.

Wait what? Attack = level? Meaning it's WAY better to go weapon-less when you're 120+? O_O

[Russt]

Wait what? Attack = level? Meaning it's WAY better to go weapon-less when you're 120+? O_O
Good point :f3: though a 3.0 STR multiplier is significantly lower than the 4.8 of a knuckle.
Like I said, it was a guess. But it fits the only two data points I had.

Edit: What does the data say about the 1h knuckle "bare hands"?

[Takebacker]

Good point :f3: though a 3.0 STR multiplier is significantly lower than the 4.8 of a knuckle.
Like I said, it was a guess. But it fits the only two data points I had.

Edit: What does the data say about the 1h knuckle "bare hands"?

....Interesting...we need a lot more data for this...

What were those data points? PM issac for what bare hands data says.

[Russt]

....Interesting...we need a lot more data for this...

What were those data points? PM issac for what bare hands data says.
Level 16 = a little more than default knuckle
Level 31 = nearing double
:f3:

[Takebacker]

Level 16 = a little more than default knuckle
Level 31 = nearing double
:f3:

:f3:

I'm asking justin what his damage range is with and without a knuckle.

[Russt]

On IRC:
<Isaac> I don't have it available atm

[Takebacker]

The damage range would obviously apply right? I'm really interested in this right now...

Edit: How did we forget the obvious?

KNUCKLE MASTERY.

Justins damage range:

With : 1563 ~ 2805
Without : 131 ~ 1018

Doesn't sound right to me saph.

[Russt]

What's the attack on his knuckle?

[Takebacker]

What's the attack on his knuckle?

http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/785185/29/17130718#17130718

Knuckle : 6 str 87 attack King Sent

[Hazzy]

I'm a Gunslinger, so I had no STR increase between those two levels. (Got STR and DEX to 36 before deciding which path I wanted... Dx)

Range at 19(loliguessilied?) was, I think, two points away http://i37.tinypic.com/wclaf4.jpg Iunno, I know weaponless was just a little higher.
Range at 19 without a weapon was 18~40, with the default was close, don't have exact numbers. Dx
Range at 31 without a weapon is 44~88, with the default knuckle it's 23~49 (37 STR, 130 DEX)
Range at 32 before I added my AP is the same. ;o
Range at 32 without a weapon is 46~90, with the default knuckle it's 24~50 (37 STR, 135 DEX)

[Takebacker]

...Why are you asking at all if you're a gunslinger? >__________>

Shoulda specified that from the start.

[Hazzy]

I'm curious? D; I have problems with getting out all the details. :[

[Russt]

I could probably get a usable formula out from just this, but I'm too lazy at the moment lol.

[Dusk]

Formula should be easy, as we have concrete numbers to deal with and a general idea of what it should look like.

That is, (X*STR*(min) + DEX)*Y/100

Where X and Y are unknowns, Y probably being based off your level, and min is equal to 1 if you're calculating max damage, and something else for min damage.

Gimme a minute.
I'm ignoring some previous posts because I realized that Weapon attack from gloves and stuff affects your damage unarmed.

Update.
31 STR 174 DEX = (79~130) @ 36 with glove
31 STR 174 DEX = (57~94) without

31 STR 174 DEX = (79~130) @ level 35 with 12 att glove
31 STR 174 DEX = (57~94) sans the glove.
31 STR 163 DEX = (54~90)
31 STR 158 DEX = (52~89)

31 STR 173 DEX = (57~93)
30 STR 173 DEX = (57~92)
30 STR 157 DEX = (52~87)

30 STR 157 DEX + 12 ATT = (72~121)

Hazzy's data point screws up anything I might have had going. 36 STR 70 DEX = (18~40) @ 19 with no glove.

STR and DEX definitely affect it. The numbers changed every time I switched DEX equips. Level looks like it makes a difference, but I'm unsure.

The closest formula I got with my data points only is (3.6*STR + DEX)*(WATK)/100, where base WATK is 34.

I can't determine what it is at the moment, but I hope the data helps anyone else that is looking for it. I'll try again when I hit level 36.

Added another data point from my forgotten gunslinger mule: 10 STR 55 DEX @ 10 = 9~14

I'm confused as hell now. I think W. Att changes every X level instead of every level.

[Stereo]

This should be sufficient, I'll just post the numbers first give you guys a chance :P

lv. 17, 78 str 22 dex
13-95 with 16 atk Scallywag Knuckler + 8 atk wg
12-74 with 8 atk wg
9-53 without wg
lv. 17, 78 str 22 dex
12-76 with 8 atk wg
9-56 without wg
Adding str: (w. 8 atk wg on)
79 str - 12-77
80 str - 13-78
81 str - 13-79
82 str - 13-80
83 str - 13-81
83 str without wg - 9-59

[ZYXWVUT]

There's something I noticed too when leveling a gunslinger in KMS. I do more damage without a Knuckle than with a Knuckle with my stats, which obviously has more DEX than STR. This doesn't apply to Brawlers, though.

[Stereo]

Knuckle's Atk = level+4 (matches both Hazzy's and my numbers)
Formula: (3*STR+DEX)*atk/100 max .:P

[Hazzy]

Wait, so at level 200, going Knuckeless would be realy high damage? o_o

[Stereo]

Not likely.

4.8 vs. 3 str multiplier -> 320 atk knuckleless (20 glove+cape+shoe, onyx apple) = 200 atk knuckle (80 knuckle + 20 + 100)


If you can't afford a level 100 scrolled knuckle yet, maybe.

[Dusk]

There's something I noticed too when leveling a gunslinger in KMS. I do more damage without a Knuckle than with a Knuckle with my stats, which obviously has more DEX than STR. This doesn't apply to Brawlers, though.

It's possible that your dex affects weapon attack, then. I tried Stereo's formula and it didn't work.

[Russt]

I got one that comes kind of close with everything except Hazzy's level 30-31 numbers.

Bare hands ATK = level/2 + 13
Damage = (STR * 3 [* 0.1] + DEX * 1.25 [* 0.9]) [* another 0.9?] * ATK / 100

[Sn1perJohnE]

more data in pictures :O

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/Flareofhell/Maple0019.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/Flareofhell/Maple0021.jpg

[Mozilla]

I remember in kMS, The max dmg formula for infighters, was the same as teh max dmg formula for axe fighters. Thats why Att bwgs have an massive inpact on your damage.

[Dusk]

The formula (4.2*STR+DEX)*31/100 seems to work for all of my data points, as well as SniperJohnE's. I'm currently working on generalizing this formula for all levels, figuring out at which levels Weapon Attack changes, and figuring out the minimum damage formula.

Edit: I'm going to need more data. Stereo, I cannot make any sense of your data whatsoever. I don't understand whether or not a knuckle is equipped. I don't care about damage with a knuckle. The formula should be the same regardless of what class you are, and damage with knuckles is useless data, at least until a formula can be derived to compare to the knuckle damage formula, which we already know.

Edit2: Well, I figured out Stereo's numbers (although there's a contradiction for the damage with a 8 att glove with 78/22 stats), and they fit the pattern (4.2*STR+DEX)*22/100 with the glove, so (4.2*STR+DEX)*14/100 without the glove. The intervals where weapon attack changes is still eluding me, however. My damage with the stats 31/174 has remained constant from level 35 to 38, and since the formula works for SniperJohnE as well, I'm going to say that the 31 weapon attack works for levels 33-38.

The fact that Hazzy's screenshotted damage range does not fit any weapon attack with a 4.2 STR multiplier is killing me. Now, unless LUK matters in the formula...

[Russt]

Stereo's data, cleaned up:

lv. 17, 78 str 22 dex +0 atk = 9-56
lv. 17, 78 str 22 dex +8 atk = 12-76
lv. 17, 79 str 22 dex +8 atk = 12-77
lv. 17, 80 str 22 dex +8 atk = 13-78
lv. 17, 81 str 22 dex +8 atk = 13-79
lv. 17, 82 str 22 dex +8 atk = 13-80
lv. 17, 83 str 22 dex +8 atk = 13-81
lv. 17, 83 str 22 dex +0 atk = 9-59

At least that's how I'm interpreting it as.

[Dusk]

Ah, I think both the STR and the level multiplier change as you level up then.

I'm levelling my other gunslinger up by using fists only and not using any skill points...

10 STR 55 DEX, no other bonuses other than defense and accuracy from a 3 dex glove.

level 10: 9~14
level 11: 9~14
level 12: 10~15

I'm hoping to discover a pattern before it hits level 15 and I grow tired of training it.

[Technolink]

Wait, can 2nd-4th job skills be used w/o a knuckle, or just first job?

And knuckle mastery should make it worth your while to have a knuckle EQed.

[Link]

Wait, can 2nd-4th job skills be used w/o a knuckle, or just first job?

And knuckle mastery should make it worth your while to have a knuckle EQed.

ANY Brawler skill can be used with bare hands except for Booster.

[Russt]

I don't believe we have reached a conclusion on this.

[Blankout]

I'm not sure if this has been answered, but how fast are bare hands?

[Hazzy]

I'm not sure if this has been answered, but how fast are bare hands?

I haven't tested it, but I'd guess its as fast as a normal knuckle? :f6:

[Russt]

I heard it's Faster (2). which is awesome if it's true.

Lol @ how 11 people suddenly are viewing this thread.

[InBomb]

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1470/maple0006fp9.jpg

Here's a pic of my Strless Dex Brawler at level 30--with an 8 Atk WG.
I really want to get the formula down--so let's all pitch in, kay guys? I'll provide a picture of my Bare hands range every level to help out. :f2:

[Hazzy]

I heard it's Faster (2). which is awesome if it's true.

Lol @ how 11 people suddenly are viewing this thread.

I was close? :f3:


http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1470/maple0006fp9.jpg

Here's a pic of my Strless Dex Brawler at level 30--with an 8 Atk WG.
I really want to get the formula down--so let's all pitch in, kay guys? I'll provide a picture of my Bare hands range every level to help out. :f2:

Does your damage change when you remove the Atk Glove?

[InBomb]

Does your damage change when you remove the Atk Glove?

Yeah, let me log on real quick and take Four screenshots--one with ATK Gloves and lv 10 knuckles, one with just lv 10 knuckles, one with atk gloves and bare hands, and one with just bare hands.

[Hazzy]

Yeah, let me log on real quick and take Four screenshots--one with ATK Gloves and lv 10 knuckles, one with just lv 10 knuckles, one with atk gloves and bare hands, and one with just bare hands.

Bare hands with and without a 10 Atk WG should help with the weapon atk of hands. :D

[InBomb]

Bare hands with and without a 10 Atk WG should help with the weapon atk of hands. :D
As of level 34:
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1917/maple0009pq8.jpg Barehanded w/8 Atk WG
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/7306/maple0010vx4.jpg Barehanded without 8 atk WG
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8895/maple0008kx8.jpg Lv 10 Knuckler w/ 8 atk WG
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/5720/maple0011hy3.jpg Lv 10 Knuckler w/ 8 atk WG

;D

BTW, my Avoid is through the roof due to the dex abuse.

[Hazzy]

Yey. Numbers. <3
Eight more attack increased your max by almost 1.25, and exactly 1.25 on your min. So I think you have 32 attack on your bare hands without out it. :O
Now where did 32 come from....? Two less than your level?

Also, STRless Brawler. Pro. :chin:

[InBomb]

Yey. Numbers. <3
Ten more attack increased your max by almost 1.25, and exactly 1.25 on your min. So I think you have 40 attack on your bare hands without out it. :O
Now where did 40 come from....? D:

Also, STRless Brawler. Pro. :chin:

Btw, you know that's an 8 atk, not a 10 atk, right? xD

[Hazzy]

Btw, you know that's an 8 atk, not a 10 atk, right? xD

I hate you now.
*goes emo*

[InBomb]

I hate you now.
*goes emo*

:( Loooove you. :heart:

[Dusk]

I haven't forgotten about this project - I saved up a bunch of exchange quest items so I can localize exactly how level affects damage. This is the first MS spading project I have on my to-do list. However, I am also busy levelling my Slinger to 70 (5 levels away) and dealing with irl things, so expect another week, unless someone else figures it out first.

Things we know:

- The formula is a standard (x*STR + DEX) * (y/100) form
- Mastery for bare hands is always 10%
- Level affects both x and y, at certain intervals. Meaning from level 10 to level 11, x and y are the same, but from level 11 to 12, x and y change. Even if your STR and DEX are held constant, your damage will change.
- Weapon Att. from shields, gloves, etc. is added to y.

If anyone would like to pitch in, just go bare hands before levelling and check/post your damage. After you level, but before putting your stat points in, check to see if your damage has changed.

So far I only know that x and y change from level 11 to level 12. It happens every couple of levels but I have no idea what the interval is.

Btw, I believe the speed for bare hands is Normal (6).


As of level 34:
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1917/maple0009pq8.jpg Barehanded w/8 Atk WG
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/7306/maple0010vx4.jpg Barehanded without 8 atk WG
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8895/maple0008kx8.jpg Lv 10 Knuckler w/ 8 atk WG
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/5720/maple0011hy3.jpg Lv 10 Knuckler w/ 8 atk WG

;D

BTW, my Avoid is through the roof due to the dex abuse.

Look up to see the formula that works for levels (?)-33-38-(?). (4.2*STR + DEX)*(31/100) (max). (4.2*STR*0.1*0.9 + DEX)*(31/100) (min). Works for your numbers too.

The intervals look really random to me.

[ZachAttack]

I'm pretty sure barehands is "fastest" (or faster, whatever the one after fast is)

[InBomb]

I haven't forgotten about this project - I saved up a bunch of exchange quest items so I can localize exactly how level affects damage. This is the first MS spading project I have on my to-do list. However, I am also busy levelling my Slinger to 70 (5 levels away) and dealing with irl things, so expect another week, unless someone else figures it out first.

Things we know:

- The formula is a standard (x*STR + DEX) * (y/100) form
- Mastery for bare hands is always 10%
- Level affects both x and y, at certain intervals. Meaning from level 10 to level 11, x and y are the same, but from level 11 to 12, x and y change. Even if your STR and DEX are held constant, your damage will change.
- Weapon Att. from shields, gloves, etc. is added to y.

If anyone would like to pitch in, just go bare hands before levelling and check/post your damage. After you level, but before putting your stat points in, check to see if your damage has changed.

So far I only know that x and y change from level 11 to level 12. It happens every couple of levels but I have no idea what the interval is.

Btw, I believe the speed for bare hands is Normal (6).

I've checked every level I've leveled up--and my Damage on both my Min and Max seem to both go up 3~5ish per level.

Also--Speed for Bare hands is proven to be "Faster". Which number of faster isn't really determined, but I can tell the difference between both my Fast speed lv 30 bat and my Fast speed lv 10 Knuckle.
It feels twice as fast to me, but I can't be certain on that.

[Russt]

Hence speed 2.

This formula could probably be found really easily via PS tweakage. I don't wanna bother Fiel about it though, I've already bothered him too much >_>

[Dusk]

Oh, okay. I haven't done too much punching as a Slinger.

Your damage should be going up every level. That's because your stats are changing. What I'm interested in is the levels at which your damage goes up before you add stats. That's not every level - I'm sure of it.

[InBomb]

Oh, okay. I haven't done too much punching as a Slinger.

Your damage should be going up every level. That's because your stats are changing. What I'm interested in is the levels at which your damage goes up before you add stats. That's not every level - I'm sure of it.

Ah, I'll check and see. Try to get in a few levels tonight before I hit the hay.

[Loose]

Barehands feels the same speed as Beia Crash (Fast) with Booster. I'll continue experimenting with it later. You can use all Knuckle requiring skills, including Transformation, Shock Wave and Energy Drain.

Here's more numbers from Level 72 Marauder:

0 Weapon Attack, 62 ~ 445. Using Bare Hands (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x190/loose24/nothing.gif)
2 Weapon Attack, 66 ~ 473. Using Pink Adventurer Cape (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x190/loose24/bare.gif).
41 + 2 Weapon Attack, 393 ~ 700. Using Prime Hands (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x190/loose24/prime.gif).
51 + 2 Weapon Attack, 485 ~ 863. Using Neozard (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x190/loose24/neo.gif).
57 + 2 Weapon Attack, 540 ~ 961. Using Fury Claw (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x190/loose24/fury.gif).
66 Weapon Attack, 604 ~ 1075. Cape-less Beia Crash (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x190/loose24/cape.gif).
66 + 2 Weapon Attack, 623 ~ 1107. Using Beia Crash (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x190/loose24/beia.gif).

I have max Mastery, my gloves don't give Weapon Attack, my Cape gives +2 Weapon Attack.

[Dusk]

There's no point in posting your damage with a knuckle :f6:. I don't know why everyone keeps doing that. We know the formula for knuckles.

@Loose: I applied the (4.2*STR+DEX)*(31/100) formula to your numbers as well. Well, pomegranate, I think that's the formula for everyone over level 30. Awesome.

Edit:

Okay, until someone provides data to prove otherwise, the damage formula for bare hands for all level 30+ Pirates (Brawlers and Slingers alike is)

Max: (4.2*STR+DEX)*(31+ATT/100)
Min: (4.2*STR*0.1*0.9+DEX)*(31+ATT/100)

[Russt]

You... have a PAC and no attack glove? o-o

[Loose]

There's no point in posting your damage with a knuckle :f6:. I don't know why everyone keeps doing that. We know the formula for knuckles.
Maybe for comparison reasons?

Like how my 0 Weapon Attack max Damage is about half the max damage of Neozard/Fury Claw, or near the minimum damage of Prime Hands/Neozard.

I also enjoy showing off my Knuckle collection.

About the yes to cape and no to glove, I don't like using common gloves and the cape can go either way. It looks pretty good with my Beia Crash, but I'll most likely change it at higher levels.

[Takebacker]

Maybe for comparison reasons?

Like how my 0 Weapon Attack max Damage is about half the max damage of Neozard/Fury Claw, or near the minimum damage of Prime Hands/Neozard.

I also enjoy showing off my Knuckle collection.

About the yes to cape and no to glove, I don't like using common gloves and the cape can go either way. It looks pretty good with my Beia Crash, but I'll most likely change it at higher levels.

Once again, i like your style.

[InBomb]

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4294/maple0012hy6.jpg Before adding points
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8126/maple0013mo0.jpg After adding points

No Damage up with level so far, I'll take a screen of every level to check this though. Maybe we just get extra barehanded W atk once we advance to 2nd job?

[Takebacker]

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4294/maple0012hy6.jpg Before adding points
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8126/maple0013mo0.jpg After adding points

No Damage up with level so far, I'll take a screen of every level to check this though. Maybe we just get extra barehanded W atk once we advance to 2nd job?

I was thinking more along the lines of a small w.att boost every 2-3 levels or so.

[Link]

There's no point in posting your damage with a knuckle :f6:. I don't know why everyone keeps doing that. We know the formula for knuckles.

@Loose: I applied the (4.2*STR+DEX)*(31/100) formula to your numbers as well. Well, pomegranate, I think that's the formula for everyone over level 30. Awesome.

Edit:

Okay, until someone provides data to prove otherwise, the damage formula for bare hands for all level 30+ Pirates (Brawlers and Slingers alike is)

Max: (4.2*STR+DEX)*(31+ATT/100)
Min: (4.2*STR*0.1*0.9+DEX)*(31+ATT/100)

I'll have to say that this formula works for my Viper on JMS.

[Sn1perJohnE]

anyone think that there might be a connection with the HANDS stat?

[Blankout]

anyone think that there might be a connection with the HANDS stat?

Hands doesn't have an effect on damage.

[Corn]

Hands have an effect on the stats of a forged in the other versions...so no.

[Itachi54647]

So, barehanded brawlers can use all the skills (like screw punch, Demolition) except for flash fist and any other knuckle requiremnt skills?

[Corn]

So, barehanded brawlers can use all the skills (like screw punch, Demolition) except for flash fist and any other knuckle requiremnt skills?

I am 99% sure on that.

[Loose]

So, barehanded brawlers can use all the skills (like screw punch, Demolition) except for flash fist and any other knuckle requiremnt skills?
Barehanded Brawlers can use all the skills (except Booster). It's exactly as if you had Knuckle, but you can't see it and you can hold a shield with it.

Even my Gunslinger with a Gun can use Flash Fist.

[Takebacker]

Barehanded Brawlers can use all the skills. It's exactly as if you had Knuckle, but you can't see it and you can hold a shield with it.

Even my Gunslinger with a Gun can use Flash Fist.

I wouldn't bank on being able to use knuckle booster/wind booster though.

[MasPan]

I wouldn't bank on being able to use knuckle booster/wind booster though.

Hmm, that opens some interesting oppurtunities...at least in the early levels. If the formula is decent enough compared to with knuckles, a nice attk shield could be better than having a knuckle.

[Loose]

There... I edited it. Forgot about Booster.

I'm curious to see how Speed Infusion will work with this.

[Russt]

Speed Infusion is a party skill. If it can buff bows and claws and spells, it can buff Bare Hands.

Same idea with SE.

[Takebacker]

Hmm, that opens some interesting oppurtunities...at least in the early levels. If the formula is decent enough compared to with knuckles, a nice attk shield could be better than having a knuckle.

Yup. The lack of mastery would completely wreak them after 4x though.


There... I edited it. Forgot about Booster.

I'm curious to see how Speed Infusion will work with this.

Ask justin. :O Not like there's a point of course, since it's faster (2) anyway.

[Blankout]

Speed Infusion is a party skill. If it can buff bows and claws and spells, it can buff Bare Hands.

Same idea with SE.

But can you use it with bare hands?

[Stereo]

Hmm, that opens some interesting oppurtunities...at least in the early levels. If the formula is decent enough compared to with knuckles, a nice attk shield could be better than having a knuckle.

Formula changes at 2nd job advance, though... (I took pics on my Brawler before and after advance)

Pre-28:
(3*STR+DEX)*(LEVEL+ATK+3)/100
28-30:
(3*STR+DEX)*(31+ATK)/100
30 as Brawler: (4.2*STR+DEX)*(31+ATK)/100

The Spear formula is (5*STR+DEX)*ATK/100, so you need 5/3 as much atk knuckleless to approximately match up.

ex. Level 26, 131 STR 30 DEX - 50 atk Spear, 40 atk Knuckle, 10 atk Glove, 20 atk 10 str Shield:
Spear - 493 max (using 12 atk elixirs)
Knuckleless - 321 max
Knuckle - 408 max

So even a godly shield won't help enough... Just get a good Fish/Pumpkin spear.

Heading up to level 30 though (post-advance) - 151 str
Knuckleless - 515
Knuckle (41 atk) - 475

So if you for some reason can only afford a 100% scrolled knuckle, but happened to have a 20 atk 10 str Shield (or you want the speed advantage) knuckleless makes sense.

[Russt]

Barehands is Faster (3).

[Blankout]

Formula changes at 2nd job advance, though... (I took pics on my Brawler before and after advance)

Pre-28:
(3*STR+DEX)*(LEVEL+ATK+3)/100
28-30:
(3*STR+DEX)*(31+ATK)/100
30 as Brawler: (4.2*STR+DEX)*(31+ATK)/100

The Spear formula is (5*STR+DEX)*ATK/100, so you need 5/3 as much atk knuckleless to approximately match up.

ex. Level 26, 131 STR 30 DEX - 50 atk Spear, 40 atk Knuckle, 10 atk Glove, 20 atk 10 str Shield:
Spear - 493 max (using 12 atk elixirs)
Knuckleless - 321 max
Knuckle - 408 max

So even a godly shield won't help enough... Just get a good Fish/Pumpkin spear.

Heading up to level 30 though (post-advance) - 151 str
Knuckleless - 515
Knuckle (41 atk) - 475

So if you for some reason can only afford a 100% scrolled knuckle, but happened to have a 20 atk 10 str Shield (or you want the speed advantage) knuckleless makes sense.

So basically you're saying that in 1st job: Spear > Bare hands > Knuckles

[Stereo]

No, Spear > Knuckle > Bare Hands. The only reason not to use a Spear is if you are going to use Flash Fists a lot, and I honestly never felt the need.

[Russt]

Flash Fist is a pretty good attack, actually. If not for its range, it would be one of the most effective first job attacking skills.

[Blankout]

Flash Fist is a pretty good attack, actually. If not for its range, it would be one of the most effective first job attacking skills.

It's too bad Sommersault Kick beats it in terms of range, yeah.

[Russt]

And is FF really unusable with a spear? It's been confirmed usable with a gun, so...

[Loose]

And is FF really unusable with a spear? It's been confirmed usable with a gun, so...
With a gun, the punching hand is free, not holding a weapon. With a Spear... or any other weapon, it's not.

[Stereo]

Flash Fist is a pretty good attack, actually.

I didn't like how if you spam it, it can't KB stuff. 1st hit fine, 2nd hit fails cause it's too soon. And right after that, you take touch damage. Pot costs are enough already just getting around the map, I don't need that. SSK is much better for keeping the monsters at a safe distance.


Just confirmed Flash Fist doesn't work with a Dagger, 1h Sword, 2h Sword, Spear, and Polearm.

[Russt]

Ouch.

And yes, KB limit fails. It should at least extend the KB'd time.

[Dusk]

Stereo's formula doesn't work for all levels. I've got a lot of data that doesn't fit it. Levelling an unfunded Brawler without exchange items is painful, though <_< I'm not spending anything on a test character.

Some preliminary data
Level|STR|DEX|Range|Expected Range
10|41|20|5~24|4~18|
11|41|20|5~24|4~20|
11|46|20|5~26|4~22|
12|46|20|5~28|4~23|
12|51|20|6~31|5~25|
13|51|20|6~32|5~27|
13|56|20|6~35|5~30|
14|56|20|6~35|5~31|
14|61|20|6~38|6~34|

[Stereo]

Stereo's formula doesn't work for all levels. I've got a lot of data that doesn't fit it. Levelling an unfunded Brawler without exchange items is painful, though <_< I'm not spending anything on a test character.

Some preliminary data
Level|STR|DEX|Range
10|41|20|5~24
11|41|20|5~24
11|46|20|5~26
12|46|20|5~28
12|51|20|6~31
13|51|20|6~32
13|56|20|6~35
14|56|20|6~35
14|61|20|6~38


You can't screw with the 1st line or table doesn't work right


edit: I may have written it wrong, I'll have to look back over it. It's something like 3-3.4* STR but now I'm not certain exactly what.

[Russt]

Well.

The STR multiplier changes with job and the attack multiplier changes with level.

Level | Bare WATK
30+ | 31
29 | 30
28 | 29
27 | 28
26 | 28
25 | 27
24 | 26
23 | 26
22 | 25
21 | 24
20 | 24
19 | 23
18 | 22
17 | 22
16 | 21
15 | 20
14 | 20
13 | 19
12 | 18
11 | 18
10 | 17

Or, for level 29 and under: WATK = floor((2*level+32)/3)

STR multiplier is definitely 4.2 for a Brawler, but I didn't think to ask Fiel to check for other jobs.

Edit: Hmm. The chart is off somewhere...

[Dusk]

Damn, showed up by Fiel. I was actually levelling a character to experimentally determine those numbers.

WATK should be 17 for level 11, but I'm not sure about the higher numbers.

The STR multiplier is 3.0 for Pirates, and it's 4.2 for Gunslingers/Outlaws/Corsairs as well. I'm sure of it because I originally derived the formula using my numbers as a Gunslinger.

But that's cool, the chart just needs fixing.

Edit: Got it. It's just (2*level+31)/3 instead of +32. Basically just fit my data to the other info and started getting

Level|Bare ATT
10|17|
11|17|
12|18|
13|19|
14|19|
15|20|


I think the formula for ATT looks cleaner as 10+(2*level+1)/3. Pulling out a clean 10 and getting rid of that 31 makes it much more appealing.

Compiling this data, we get the formulas for Bare hands to be:


Min: (J*STR*0.1*0.9+DEX) * (ATT/100)
Max: (J*STR+DEX) * (ATT/100)

Where,
ATT equals 10+floor((2*level+1)/3) and is capped at 31.
J equals 3.0 for Pirates and 4.2 for all 2nd+ job Pirates.