Horntail/Zakum Drops: Intentional or Accidental?

[HiiEN]

Because of certain fears of my assumptions being correct and publicized at Sleepywood, I decided to ask here in front of a more condensed (and probably better educated and understanding) audience. It's a simple question, really. As my title says, do you believe the drops of Horntail were raised intentionally? Or was it a simple accident of increasing the drop rate that could be possibly fixed in the coming patches/server checks?

If the drop rates were intentionally raised, why would they do so? Now the only reasons I could see was that either they also intentionally nerfed Zakum's drop rate so there could be a balance somewhat, although that makes no sense to me. They also might have just increased the drop rate just for the fact that it would be financially easier to run, since it's so damn expensive every single time I go (considering apple prices increased by nearly 50% due to the recent patch changes). The other reason could just be so that people would get their equipment and skills faster and get out of Horntail faster, which I could see as the most viable reason and I have nothing against.

I love running Horntail, but it's a pain in the ass to plan and host every single run a few days ahead of time. Sometimes I think it would have been better to not have Horntail at all, since all it's spawned for me other than drops was drama, but that's going off the topic so I'll leave that be for the moment.

Anyways, I'm rambling too much. So the question is are these drop rates intentional or not? If so why and should they stay?

[bored4ever86]

I've heard that they intentionally raised the skillbook drop rate in KMS recently so I think it was accidental like some of the other glitches with the recent patches but I see no reason to change it back to the "old" drop rate

As for it being returned to normal thats up to Nexon and as we've seen in the past nexon is far more interested in money which hearing that horntail can actually be worth it will increase people "training" harder to get to go (and by training i mean buying x2 exp)

[HiiEN]

I've heard that they intentionally raised the skillbook drop rate in KMS recently so I think it was accidental like some of the other glitches with the recent patches but I see no reason to change it back to the "old" drop rate

As for it being returned to normal thats up to Nexon and as we've seen in the past nexon is far more interested in money which hearing that horntail can actually be worth it will increase people "training" harder to get to go (and by training i mean buying x2 exp)
I guess you could see it that way as a way of giving people an incentive to want to train more since Horntail drops got way better, I never actually thought of it in that aspect but I believe that's possible as well. You're saying KMS did this as well? Is it still like that? I'm assuming if it is it was probably intentional and remain like that for GMS I suppose.

[Retalion]

I just find it coincidental that this coincides with the time that 2x drop cards/2x drop isnt working. I guess these two mistakes evens out in terms of things (though I guess the mistake is an advantage for those HTers and zakers, seeing as they're getting more drops and whatnot now than they would be with 2x drop).

[HiiEN]

I just find it coincidental that this coincides with the time that 2x drop cards/2x drop isnt working. I guess these two mistakes evens out in terms of things (though I guess the mistake is an advantage for those HTers and zakers, seeing as they're getting more drops and whatnot now than they would be with 2x drop).
I forgot to take that into consideration as well, which can also be seen as a plus since you won't have to make 1-2 people solo the last body or the last arm (depending on your boss) since they're the only ones with the 2x drop card. If this is really intentional I could see how they balanced it by removing the ability to make 2x drop effective on bosses and give a natural increased rate, however the only concern I'd see is that Zakum's drops were decreased, not increased and not having any 2x drop makes it even worse (it was bad enough on regular drops before the patch to not have 2x drop). But then another thing came to mind in the fact that maybe nerfing Zakum's drops were intentional due to two possibilities:

1. More channels so more chances for people to try
2. The biggest thing to crack down on indirectly: zhelm selling.

Not saying I'm against zhelm selling, it was actually my main source of income for awhile. But from what I see that's just Nexon's way of silently putting an end to the zhelm sales while at the same time giving more people a chance to run. Pair that with the fact that Horntail's drops are increased and you get all the high levels trying to kill Horntail while leaving Zakum to the next generation maplers without zhelms to earn it for themselves. Quite sneaky on Nexon's part if I do say so myself if this is really what they were aiming for.

[Silver_ice]

i think its intentional. them fucking up 2x drop isnt though

2 eggs per run, sometimes 2 mw or 2 berserk? win win :D

[Anyoneisgod]

We of our group on windia have noticed this for sure,the drop from horntail exploded and our Zakum returns have been going down(Preventing scrolling attempts).I look forward to seeing if The 2x repair has any impact on zakum as its my main income source.

[xDae]

Our guild hardly sells now that we are focused on HT. Its more of "Zakum hosted by Them"

The first night we zaked with the new drop rate, we had 4 buyers as usual, but only 1 got a helm :/

[bored4ever86]

i really hate the zakum aspect as i still need to buy a helm but then again i'm getting unlimited for 20m from a friend of mine hope they keep the horntail and nix the lowering of zakum

[DrRusty]

well since .56 we got alot of stuff from KMS. They could have a higher HT droprate , therefore increasing our own droprate once we got the patch. My theory on it.

Nothing wrong with cheaper skills books though =D

[HiiEN]

Even with higher drop rates that's not to say the groups killing the Horntail would be selling the books any cheaper =)

Anyways I believe now by this time Zakum is beyond the point of worth killing. The only way I would see it hurt is all the newer groups when new servers are started when all the first generation members are looting their first zhelms and skills. I'm hoping that the drops stay the way they are at least for Horntail. While I honestly can't really say the same for Zakum anymore (sorry to say but it's a waste of time to kill now) it would be nice to get drops for those fixed in honor of saving the sanity for the newer groups. For all we know though, 2x drop cards working on bosses could have been an accident in itself and they finally could have fixed it. Look at it this way, at least we're not getting zhelm (2)'s drop. It just takes a bit more effort.

With Horntail's drop rate now, it's actually worth killing since it pulls my group out of debt. Not to be bragging or anything, but a recent run with the new rates managed to drop our group a 54 Purple Sleeve (which is still currently in the shop), which should, if anything, fund the runs for the next 20 runs or something, haha.

[wobbufet]

It's nice that the droprate for HT is increased, although it doesn't really affect me in any way at all. I do go to zakum runs however and Zakum has become quite stingy with the drops lately :( Low splits FTL.

[HiiEN]

Like I mentioned earlier, it's probably Nexon's way of indirectly destroying helm sales without saying "we're banning it" and having to deal with the uprising of thousands of users. Of course, it can also be viewed as a lose-lose situation since people also rely on the drops themselves, and not just the zhelms, which can potentially harm new groups, especially those without skills and helmets. All I can really say about that is good luck, Yellonde.

[TLeviathan]

Our guild hardly sells now that we are focused on HT. Its more of "Zakum hosted by Them"

The first night we zaked with the new drop rate, we had 4 buyers as usual, but only 1 got a helm :/

I've only sold one helm since 4th job came out f3. The other two still sell helms regularly. As a HT organizer, and someone who is used to eating a 25mil loss each z run, I'm very happy with the change. However, once zakum is 2x'able again, we'll see how things are; I'm pretty sure that with 2x at zak things will be peachy keen again.

[HiiEN]

The thing is, I see the nerfed Zakum drops going hand in hand with the increased channels and Horntail drops. So I don't believe drops would be increased again anytime soon without some sort of balance (decreasing something else, maybe?).

[TugboatWilly]

The thing is, I see the nerfed Zakum drops going hand in hand with the increased channels and Horntail drops. So I don't believe drops would be increased again anytime soon without some sort of balance (decreasing something else, maybe?).agreed. i think they nerfed zakum drops because of the added channels too. i've been seeing a lot of helms lately, just no equip drops. :(

[Avenge]

i don't think the HT droprate boost was intentional.

i'd understand if the eggs/mw20's dropped separately, but when they stack directly on top of eachother, i think it's a mistake.

and zakum drops better be a joke because i went to 2 zakum runs in a row a few days ago, and nothing but 1 weapon and a couple helmets dropped each run.

[HiiEN]

Well how does them stacking on top of each other attribute to a mistake, if I may ask?

[xDae]

Well how does them stacking on top of each other attribute to a mistake, if I may ask?


What he's saying is that those drops are rare, and how often do you see drops from one monster stack directly on top of each other?

[HiiEN]

I can only think of two: Horntail Pendants and Zakum Helmets. Now that I think about it, drop rate increases the rate that the item drops, not the amount that it drops by. But when you start seeing doubles of equips and skills... I'm starting to wonder about it at all. Of course, I'm not complaining. Oh and for the correction, eggs and Maple Warrior 20 don't stack on top of each other. In fact, most of the time they drop on opposite ends of the map. Only thing that literally stacks are the Horntail pendants, and you also get two rows of equips and skills.

[xDae]

I can only think of two: Horntail Pendants and Zakum Helmets. Now that I think about it, drop rate increases the rate that the item drops, not the amount that it drops by. But when you start seeing doubles of equips and skills... I'm starting to wonder about it at all. Of course, I'm not complaining. Oh and for the correction, eggs and Maple Warrior 20 don't stack on top of each other. In fact, most of the time they drop on opposite ends of the map. Only thing that literally stacks are the Horntail pendants, and you also get two rows of equips and skills.

This is defiantely something people gotta keep in mind. But at the same time, if you increase the rate at which it drops, wouldn't you see more of it? SO its kinda the same thing.....right?

[HiiEN]

This is defiantely something people gotta keep in mind. But at the same time, if you increase the rate at which it drops, wouldn't you see more of it? SO its kinda the same thing.....right?
I believe they're two separate things. That's why even though you buy a double drop card you never see monsters drop more than 2 of the same item at the same time, however you would see them drop more often, just not from the same monster at once.

[wobbufet]

I saw a pic, I think of Synergy HT run with stacked mw 20. I'm fairly sure, brb searching.

Edit: Hmm maybe not, can't find it anyway.

[HiiEN]

I'm not saying MW20 doesn't drop twice, but it doesn't stack literally. I go on Horntail runs and MW20 drops on two different ends of the map all the time.

[wobbufet]

I'm not saying MW20 doesn't drop twice, but it doesn't stack literally. I go on Horntail runs and MW20 drops on two different ends of the map all the time.

Yeah I understood what you meant but I thought I'd seen a screenshot with mw20 stacked. I guess I was wrong.

[Stereo]

and zakum drops better be a joke because i went to 2 zakum runs in a row a few days ago, and nothing but 1 weapon and a couple helmets dropped each run.

Haven't you done Zakum since 4th job patch? Its drop rate was messed up then (at the time they switched from level 90 to 100 weapons) and only 1 weapon and maybe a helm or two has been typical since then.


I guess the lack of 2x drops would make it look like that if your group always uses the 2x drop to increase his rewards.

[wobbufet]

Haven't you done Zakum since 4th job patch? Its drop rate was messed up then (at the time they switched from level 90 to 100 weapons) and only 1 weapon and maybe a helm or two has been typical since then.


I guess the lack of 2x drops would make it look like that if your group always uses the 2x drop to increase his rewards.

That would be the case since every organised zakum group uses 2x drop for every run.

[HiiEN]

Yeah but the thing is 2x drop no longer works with Zakum. And as for Horntail I don't know about other groups but for mine before the increased rates, 2x drop wouldn't work on the last arm, either.

[wobbufet]

Yeah but the thing is 2x drop no longer works with Zakum. And as for Horntail I don't know about other groups but for mine before the increased rates, 2x drop wouldn't work on the last arm, either.

From what I've heard 2x drop doesn't work at all and so it doesn't work at zakum either.

[HiiEN]

Actually before drops were adjusted 2x drop did work on Zakum to the extent of my knowledge. I've tested it by running with groups with and without 2x drop cards multiple times. Using a drop card back then would almost always drop 4-5 helms. Without a drop card it would drop only 1-2 helms.

[wobbufet]

I meant that 2x drop cards don't work outside zakum at the moment. They don't work anywhere at all. Or that's what multiple people said on sw, didn't try it myself.

[HiiEN]

Oh that's what you meant. I guess if that's the case 2x drop cards must be broken altogether. I'm just glad Horntail's rate was naturally (if you want to put it that way) increased so there's no need for a 2x drop card at the moment.

[WillDaSnail]

Well from what Im observing, I noted that Zakum's drop rate of helmets & equips have been slightly lower recently (they likely altered the drop rate after patch .55 or .56). But for the level 20/30 skillbooks out of Zakum, I noted a MAJOR difference....you're already considered lucky if a skillbook comes out (mastery books, aka level 20/30 books are noticebably rare from what I saw off Zakum kill screenies)

(2x Drop card DOES work on Zakum, except right now the card itself is screwed up.....)

But HT drops - wow, since Patch .56, the drop rate is literally rigged IMO. The drops that come out of HT is literally equivalent of killing 2 HT's at the same time. And from what I saw, drops literally flooding the floor from end to end.

(Pendants, equips, mastery books, and even pots are dropping 2x than it should be. For example, I saw 4 pendants drop from 1 HT, 2 MW's from another, 2 Tomahawks from one....yeah you get my point).

P.S. 2x Drop on HT is going to make things so rigged, lol.

[wobbufet]

Well from what Im observing, I noted that Zakum's drop rate of helmets & equips have been slightly lower recently (they likely altered the drop rate after patch .55 or .56). But for the level 20/30 skillbooks out of Zakum, I noted a MAJOR difference....you're already considered lucky if a skillbook comes out (mastery books, aka level 20/30 books are noticebably rare from what I saw off Zakum kill screenies)

(2x Drop card DOES work on Zakum, except right now the card itself is screwed up.....)

But HT drops - wow, since Patch .56, the drop rate is literally rigged IMO. The drops that come out of HT is literally equivalent of killing 2 HT's at the same time. And from what I saw, drops literally flooding the floor from end to end.

(Pendants, equips, mastery books, and even pots are dropping 2x than it should be. For example, I saw 4 pendants drop from 1 HT, 2 MW's from another, 2 Tomahawks from one....yeah you get my point).

P.S. 2x Drop on HT is going to make things so rigged, lol.

Yeah the amount of skill drops from HT is rediculous, although I think the new pendant/egg drop rates are quite nice actually...

[Mira]

Yeah the amount of skill drops from HT is rediculous, although I think the new pendant/egg drop rates are quite nice actually...

The sooner I can be taken on a HT run to finish the quest, the better. The more egg and pandant drop means this date is closer. :)

[HiiEN]

I don't think 2x drop ever worked on Horntail ever, even before this patch. Drops were always the same to me. Just as a note, its a guaranteed fact that Horntail will always drop 4-5 pendants, 2 eggs, 2 Maple Warrior 20 books, and a ton of everything else. Pendants always dropped more than once though, they're like zakum helms.

[ablu2]

2 MaNeY WoWrdS iN ToPiC!!!1111111ONEONEONE

[wobbufet]

2 MaNeY WoWrdS iN ToPiC!!!1111111ONEONEONE

Please keep these kind of comments in the funhouse.

[Cardboardsnail]

Please keep these kind of comments in the funhouse.

Congratualtions, "Admiral boom"

Anyway, I think the drop rate was changed for a reason

With 4th job, zakum is nothing

[wobbufet]

Congratualtions, "Admiral boom"

:cool: Oh yes!

[WillDaSnail]

Yeah the amount of skill drops from HT is rediculous, although I think the new pendant/egg drop rates are quite nice actually...
True. Gives the chance for more people to get their Pendants at once - and speeds up the process for others that are waiting for theirs.

To give you an idea how INSANE HT drop rate is: I just checked SW and a run leader from my server just posted his results. Holy eff, alongside the typical doubles that comes out (for this one: 2 eggs, 2 MW's, and 2 Blood Daggers) there were 6 HT Pendants that came along with it.

And for the equipment drops - I nearly puked too, its literally like 8 equips that came out of that kill.....the majority were the good ones too. >_>

Hopefully, I proved my point here about how HT now drops stuff "equivalent to 2 HT's getting killed at the same time". Before patch .56, HT used to drop 1-3 pendants (and literally there were no doubles of any equip or mastery books). But now, HT can drop anywhere from 2-6, which blows your mind beyond imagination.

P.S. Hey Admiral -F3-

[xDae]

:cool: Oh yes!

Did you stay up all night posting in every single thread? o.O

[Cardboardsnail]

Did you stay up all night posting in every single thread? o.O

I think he did

He's the only "Admiral Boom" here

[HiiEN]

Yeah so today we got 5 pendants, 2 eggs, 2 MW20's and a ton of books and equips, without using any kind of 2x drop card of any sort. Here's hoping drop rates stay constant.