Are Warriors a Dieing Class?

[Hazzy]

Well, as I was reading through some post, Hero pointed out the massive avoid Temple of Time Monsters have. Recalling that Leafre was very much the same, but lower, this raises a startling reality: Is Nexon going to create more and more high avoid monsters, to the point where anything under 100 Base Dex is impossible? This would either kill the class entirely, as the damage drop would kill them at Bosses. Leafre's top was 43 Avoid? ToT's top is 49. That's 180 Ref. Accuracy right there. Imagine 60 avoid, 70... :f4:

Discuss? :D

[Holypie]

that's why mage's are good. they can hit monsters, and have the survivability to well, survive

[Greg22]

It doesn't matter, because everyone is going to make a Pirate anyways.
I don't really understand this warrior accuracy/dex stuff very much.
How much more DEX would they need to pull out of their ass to take down ToT monsters?

[Hazzy]

It doesn't matter, because everyone is going to make a Pirate anyways.
I don't really understand this warrior accuracy/dex stuff very much.
How much more DEX would they need to pull out of their ass to take down ToT monsters?

Look at it this way. LowDex/Dexless warriors strive for 140 accuracy-ish. They need 180 for the highest ToT monsters.

That 40 accuracy's 50 Dex. ._.

[Cybuster]

Maybe Nexon are trying to prove they don't hate Bowmen after all? :D

[Hazzy]

Maybe Nexon are trying to prove they don't hate Bowmen after all? :D

Nexon hates everyone but sins. Killer Avoid on monsters to show hate towards warriors. ABs and Glitches on Bowman skills, Elemental Monsters being rare to piss off Paladins/Mages.... ._.

[Holypie]

no, they're trying to prove they hate warriors, cuz pirates, mages, and theives can hit it just fine. shadowers are good cuz of meso gurad too.(you're practically invincible with some munneh)

EDIT:nvm, they hate everyone.

[Hero]

Not necesarily hated by nexon, there'll always be a way to improve your accuracy. Plus, nobody's forcing anyone to go dexless. There's ALOT of things that can be scrolled for either ACC or DEX, so that's not really a problem. However, I do realize the community is starting to be more "meh" towards all warriors except DK nowadays (Mainly because they are needed for Horntail.)

I start regretting I went Fighter over spearman more and more. -_-

Really though, by the time ToT will be released (HOPEFULLY) eye accesories will be more common. By then, I reckon most higher leveled warriors will have their pendants&eggs, meaning they're bound to have enough accuracy by then. Considering most warriors have plenty of accuracy right now and are using top/bottom sets, they could always switch back to overalls.

[EchoFaith]

as far as i know, accuraccy has always been the biggest issue for warriors. by their nature, a warrior's secondary stat is accuraccy. having monsters with higher avoid doesn't mean that nexon hates warriors (and personally, i think the hero bandwagon says the same.) with new monsters out, the class will just have to adapt to the new circumstances, similar to dark knights learning how to use berzerk rather than relying on a cleric's heal the entire time.

[Hazzy]

Not necesarily hated by nexon, there'll always be a way to improve your accuracy. Plus, nobody's forcing anyone to go dexless. There's ALOT of things that can be scrolled for either ACC or DEX, so that's not really a problem. However, I do realize the community is starting to be more "meh" towards all warriors except DK nowadays (Mainly because they are needed for Horntail.)

I start regretting I went Fighter over spearman more and more. -_-

Really though, by the time ToT will be released (HOPEFULLY) eye accesories will be more common. By then, I reckon most higher leveled warriors will have their pendants&eggs, meaning they're bound to have enough accuracy by then. Considering most warriors have plenty of accuracy right now and are using top/bottom sets, they could always switch back to overalls.

True, getting 180, or even 200 accuracy isn't impossible, but to hit something with 70 Avoid, which isn't far away if they continue at this rate, requires 257 accuracy. o__o

[xLeviathan]

No one class will ever 'die out.'
There are always new players, and probably around over half of new players start with warriors.

Well, then again, I think I see just as many now as I ever have.
But then again, I'm back to PQing, not bossing at Zak anymore or training Gobies/Himes.

[Hazzy]

Well, I don't mean "die out" as in a total extinction, but rather a massive drop in the population such as the Dark Knight situation in jMS. If Warriors need massive Dex to hit high leveled monsters, the high level warriors will probably die out if no compensation is made. (Such as an increase in Weapon Attack to override the extra Dex/Str loss)

[xLeviathan]

Well, I don't mean "die out" as in a total extinction, but rather a massive drop in the population such as the Dark Knight situation in jMS. If Warriors need massive Dex to hit high leveled monsters, the high level warriors will probably die out if no compensation is made. (Such as an increase in Weapon Attack to override the extra Dex/Str loss)

I guess Dark Knights are kinda rare, but I don't know how rare they are compared to other 4th jobs.
I've only met a handful of Bowmasters since 4th came out.

I quit my Dark Knight and deleted it, and one of the reasons was because the stats were messed up (I was amazed I got to 120) and the skills were kinda suckish.

I couldn't even get Berserk 'cause I couldn't kill Griffey.
>_>;

[Stereo]

(Such as an increase in Weapon Attack to override the extra Dex/Str loss)

I doubt that could bring them up to SE'd NL/Bowmaster damage. Really the only thing that would need warriors is bosses that do 12-15k damage steadily, and can hit the entire map.

[HiiEN]

Dark Knights are still a dwindling problem, I have a hard enough time finding decent-leveled and legit ones who know how to play their character. You'd be surprised how many Dark Knights don't know how to keep a Hyperbody up during a boss fight. But it is true, you can't make even a decent Dark Knight to match up to say, a decently funded Hero unless you're overly funded (sometimes with NX for washing) and can keep a constant hold on Berserk 20/30's threshold. Oh yeah and speaking of Berserk, it's like Dark Knights get owned even more when Horntail drops the main book they need when Heroes find all their books off of easy bosses. The only good news is the increase in the 5% threshold. I really do applaud the remaining Dark Knights who have gotten over the hell levels of 12x-13x and keep on playing. If you're Windian and know how to play your character, let me know.

[Shippo the Fox]

I fail to see how they hate you because they stuck more avoid on harder monsters at much higher levels.

Remember, lots of warriors choose Dexless/Low Dex. Those builds obviously have lower accuracy because of lower dex. You wouldn't have that problem with normal. Maybe what they're really trying to do is get more people to actually be more diverse in their choices in builds.

[HiiEN]

Oh yeah and regarding the new monsters, I believed they were introduced as a balancing issue (for mainly as elemental weaknesses). Skelegons and Newties are still a good source of training.

[Holypie]

if its elemental balancing, why did I/L's get screwed over with no ice weaknesses? the fking fire monsters are weak to goddamn poison! what the fk.plus, our lightning attack is weak as shit and all it does is aggro things, its too weak to kill!

[Cardboardsnail]

if its elemental balancing, why did I/L's get screwed over with no ice weaknesses? the fking fire monsters are weak to goddamn poison! what the fk.plus, our lightning attack is weak as shit and all it does is aggro things, its too weak to kill!

Chain lightning is weak?

[butterfλi]

Chain lightning is weak?

To single targets, yes. Comared it to brandish, triple throw or hurricane, CL is a joke.

And I don't see why people have to be worried about accuracy. Accuracy is so easy to get now, many many warriors are dexless or have below 20 base dex. Some might have to raise base dex or some can just go from a str cape to a dex cape. Go from top/bottom to overall since over allsadds more accuracy.

Bowmen and hermits didn't quit when leafre came out since their weakness is HP and they can't skele until mid 14x. Didn't stop them.

[HiiEN]

It's not like they're eliminating a training place altogether (i.e. skeles and newties), they're simply adding more. Just because they leave out one doesn't mean they ignore. I know my friend who's an I/L and still levels fast at Newties. Look at all the people who reached 200 already, they did it without those new ToT mobs. If you think about it, people will always complain when new monsters are released because the class that doesn't get the benefit will act like "ZOMG NEXON DOESN'T CARE WE GET NERFD". Nexon can't address every single class every single time they release a few new mobs, you know.

[viperxuat]

as it is now, i have very little problems with accuracy, and im only 60 base dex. There are ways to come up with the needed accuracy, such as scrolling shoes for accuracy instead of dex, scrolling zhelms for accuracy, and getting a ht pendant and adding that egg to it. I currently have 187 accuracy, without even adding bless to it. I dont think that having higher avoid monsters will be a problem, as ht requires a fair amount of accuracy as is.

[HayO]

The starting post about maybe needing more accuracy for newer monsters I dont really think that would be a reason for warriors to be a 'dieing class' right now every low/nodex warrior is able to hit everything even HT and this without overall. If I would need extra accuracy I could allways switch from top bot to overall also I dont have any face equip I seen those where out. But even if there would come out more monsters that require impossible accuracy there would still be plenty others so no need to worry about that.

[Luscent]

I don't see them dieing out any time soon, especially after looking at the price of Warrior equips/scrolls right now. Alternative training spots are just that, alternative. Skele's/Newts are still fine to train at all the way to end game even with new mobs. Maybe a new mob in the future will have extremely low avoid, ones that are weak to thunder, and another that won't damage sins and archers enough to kill in 2~ hits.

[Hero]

True, getting 180, or even 200 accuracy isn't impossible, but to hit something with 70 Avoid, which isn't far away if they continue at this rate, requires 257 accuracy. o__o

I believe the bodyguards, or atleast the final bodyguard ( The Boss ) has an amount of avoid that not a single warrior is ever going to hit.

It's mainly because of Showa I realized how harsh nexon is on warriors really; we're literally being excluded from a few bosses unless we insanely HP wash or get to a rather high level (Anego slap) and then we don't have the advantages of leveling because of the boss like hermits/NL do.

Course, this could maybe mean salvation for regular dex warriors at one point or another. But still, we'll just have to wait and see. Till then, I'll be mass upgrading my accuracy. :redface:

[Takebacker]

I believe the bodyguards, or atleast the final bodyguard ( The Boss ) has an amount of avoid that not a single warrior is ever going to hit.

It's mainly because of Showa I realized how harsh nexon is on warriors really; we're literally being excluded from a few bosses unless we insanely HP wash or get to a rather high level (Anego slap) and then we don't have the advantages of leveling because of the boss like hermits/NL do.

Course, this could maybe mean salvation for regular dex warriors at one point or another. But still, we'll just have to wait and see. Till then, I'll be mass upgrading my accuracy. :redface:

No, this is how the JMS dev team decided to handle their exclusive area. Showa is for the ranged characters. Having HIGH HP bosses with LOW KB is perfect for hurricane and TT as they just have to pin them to the wall constantly to win. Don't forget the parking lot as well, a haven for early AE/AR archers.

It's kaede castle that's built for warriors and tankers (funny enough shadowers and mages can get a decent amount out of both areas) as the frog boss does EXTREMELY high damage that no ranged character could really hope to withstand.

[Holypie]

yay shadowers and mages!

[DrRusty]

how does Nexon making monsters with high avoid, make them hate warriors?

They're the highest lvl training monsters in the game. So no shit they're gonna have high avoid lol.

[Germ]

how does Nexon making monsters with high avoid, make them hate warriors?

They're the highest lvl training monsters in the game. So no shit they're gonna have high avoid lol.

People are mad because of that, they're the highest level monster in the game that you can train on, usually meaning they have a decent exp an hour rate.
Think about it, if you poured your heart and soul into a character that couldn't even work effectively on the strongest monster, then you'd feel pretty useless too.
But, since Skeles are the strongest as of now, we won't have to worry. Maybe ToT won't be as great as everyone thinks, and skeles will still be the best place to go. Either way, i'm a WK. Holy charge at Skeles ftw. Unless ToT crap is weak to something.

[Takebacker]

People are mad because of that, they're the highest level monster in the game that you can train on, usually meaning they have a decent exp an hour rate.
Think about it, if you poured your heart and soul into a character that couldn't even work effectively on the strongest monster, then you'd feel pretty useless too.
But, since Skeles are the strongest as of now, we won't have to worry. Maybe ToT won't be as great as everyone thinks, and skeles will still be the best place to go. Either way, i'm a WK. Holy charge at Skeles ftw. Unless ToT crap is weak to something.

There are basically mobs weak to every other element there. I don't remember for sure though.

[ThisIsSal]

this is a ridiculous question, no one class ever dies out and i doubt the new training areas will be so much better than skeles/newties so as to make them completely obsolete.

besides, 180 acc with bless isn't that hard... i don't have a HT pendant, my zhelm is badly scrolled, i don't have a face or eye equip, i have 4 base dex, and i have 129 bless-less with my FS and 138 with my acc shoes. already 166.6 with an avg HT pendant/acc shoes, and there's still a shit-ton of upgrades left to make.

[Hero]

No, this is how the JMS dev team decided to handle their exclusive area. Showa is for the ranged characters. Having HIGH HP bosses with LOW KB is perfect for hurricane and TT as they just have to pin them to the wall constantly to win. Don't forget the parking lot as well, a haven for early AE/AR archers.

It's kaede castle that's built for warriors and tankers (funny enough shadowers and mages can get a decent amount out of both areas) as the frog boss does EXTREMELY high damage that no ranged character could really hope to withstand.

Last time I checked though, the frog boss had a shitload of Avoid aswell. :f6:

[Bob]

It's bound to happen. I guess it sucks fine-tuning your character to (x) accuracy to get the most damage possible, and having the amount needed suddenly skyrocket, but that's progression.

I was honestly surprised that Skelegons don't require more accuracy than they do, especially considering they released Dark Helm ACC scrolls soon before Leafre. Although I guess that has more to do with the fact that Leafre is a C&P from Korea, they can't just say "hay guise, were gonna riase avoydanse kk"


Warriors have always had their issues with range/accuracy(olawd KPQ)/mobility/etc...and really Paladins and DKs have poor damage against bosses. Heros have nice damage, flashy skills...they're decent. DKs will forever have Hyper Body regardless of other issues to keep them wanted by players (although not always wanted to be played....), and Paladins have always been rare as hell.



Really no boss should be (more or less) ranged/warrior exclusive. I hate the idea of Anego being so easy-mode for ranged attackers, impossible for Heros/Paladins to do any significant damage unless massively leveled and washed, and DKs can like....polearm fury and dragon roar (woo?). Same for Grandpa Gunboss, seriously...441 accuracy to 100%...at level 175? Fuck off. You should be able to party at the same boss with your friends regardless of class.



No class is a dying class, really. Not many people are willing to truly up and quit their 120+ characters and restart anew, and most people don't do the research before picking a class, they just deal with it later.

ramblerambleramble

[Evilince]

Well put it this way, I am dexless and I can hit just over 200 accuracy with beholders hex. Horntail Pendant (at +1) goes a long way, but a well scrolled zakum helmet goes even further. By the time we get this place, most warriors who can train there should have a +1 pendant and a somewhat scrolled zhelm. They can even have a little bit of base dex (more than 4).

[Hero]

Course, when they release the ToT stuff ACC stuff is going to sky rocket and the bandwagon on new dexless character will die down a bit, however everyone dexless/lowdex will want to get more accuracy in order to train there.

tl;dr start upgrading already

[bored4ever86]

personally as my main is a priest until they release a way to massively boost hp like 30% shoe hp +150hp each or a "Hyper Body" pot, a warrior(dk) will always be near

[SackMaDack]

warriors will never die out, the company will have some way of balancing out the accuracy issue in forms of a scroll, new equip etc. if new monsters made a certain class obsolete, it goes against that company's best interests to try and keep a community of people that play the game as it is.

[Alastalia]

I don't see myself quitting my Hero anytime soon due to accuracy requirements. Besides that, without a scrolled zhelm I have about 140 acc, and 160 acc with bless. Another 20 acc wouldn't be too difficult as soon as I scroll a zhelm. There's always the HT pendant to look forward to as well, along with the new face/eye accessories that can be scrolled for acc. Any way you look at it, 180 acc really isn't that difficult to attain.

[Taiketo]

It really only bothers me because...

Well, I have 30 base dex. In exp per hour every other class beats me at my level. (except maybe CBs)

Warriors are already kind've gimped so to speak because of lack of mobility and range, add accuracy issues and they have more downsides then any other class.

[Tuke]

And... will we even get ToT?

You guys shouldn't worry about things like this at such times. IF we do get ToT, it'll be in AT LEAST, 1~2 years or so.

By that time Nexon should be releasing something that gives more acc which would allow us [Dexless warriors] to be able to hit something in those places. I currently have 158 acc with Top/Bot. And my Bottom was scrolled before those "Dex&Acc" Bottom scrolls were out, so I could still get some other ~10 acc from it. Zhelm can be upgraded too. Also, we have Amoria Baskets, which are cheap [At least in Bellocan] items that could help as well.

I don't think there should be alot to worry about, since there's plenty of time for nexon to bring out more Acc items, in case they do release more. If not, next step is to make near-perfect items for funded people.

[HentaiKitty]

Accuracy won't be a problem with all the new scrolls that have come out lately, Weapon for Accuracy etc :x

Warriors will live on <3

[Rei]

Well the game wasn't really intended to support Warriors with 4 dex. x;
Either way, you can scroll basically everything you wear with acc/dex.

And they're fitting just about anything onto your character now.
Scrolling rings?
Scrolling bracelets?
Scrolling socks?
Scrolling the clothes you wear when you're 'naked'?
Seriously though, what else can a person wear? o_o

[»-Chris->]

Maybe those item stone scrolling whatever thing could give some boost in acc... Or the timless armours/weapons... f3

[Wiire]

It's true that you need alot accuracy nowadays, but look how many new Dex & Acc scrolls and equipments are released over time.

I just thought about this like yesterday and was like 'How can you not be able to hit everything nowadays?'.

[Idiotversion]

I like how everyone keeps saying that scrolling is the solution, as if we all had an infinite amount of money. Not everyone is a merchant with mules that are capped out on money and items and not everyone has the ability to spend their parents' entire annual income on NX. At level 85 I have 21mil and bought NX only once to get married. I don't have the money for a zhelm or any of those godly equips and I definitely don't have the luck required to scoll such an equip myself. It's really not that easy and I don't know how in the world some warriors are able to make so much money.

[Bribery]

Accuracy is really easy to get nowadays. Even prior to Helm scrolls, pendants, face & eye acc, there were a lot of people that managed to be dexless. Warriors with scrolled Horntail Pendants and Zhelms can easily have 139 accuracy without a dex overall.

[Hazzy]

Accuracy is really easy to get nowadays. Even prior to Helm scrolls, pendants, face & eye acc, there were a lot of people that managed to be dexless. Warriors with scrolled Horntail Pendants and Zhelms can easily have 139 accuracy without a dex overall.

The problem isn't getting 139 Accuracy, it's getting the 200-250 that may be needed in the future. .__.

[Idiotversion]

Accuracy is really easy to get nowadays. Even prior to Helm scrolls, pendants, face & eye acc, there were a lot of people that managed to be dexless. Warriors with scrolled Horntail Pendants and Zhelms can easily have 139 accuracy without a dex overall.

Again, you are assuming that such an accomplishment is easy. Who really has the guts to scroll a Zhelm? Someone with an infinite amount of money, which is not everyone. And Horntail Pendants, are they even being sold yet? It is way too early to just throw that is an as excuse to go dexless. Even still, you need to be way too high leveled to get one in order to make it really effective.

Plus, as Hazzy said, 139 is not going to be the max needed anymore. It will be much harder than it already is.

[Zaotsu]

Again, you are assuming that such an accomplishment is easy. Who really has the guts to scroll a Zhelm? Someone with an infinite amount of money, which is not everyone. And Horntail Pendants, are they even being sold yet? It is way too early to just throw that is an as excuse to go dexless. Even still, you need to be way too high leveled to get one in order to make it really effective.

Plus, as Hazzy said, 139 is not going to be the max needed anymore. It will be much harder than it already is.

Quite a few people scroll ZHelms. If you go with an active group and there are helms left over after buyers, usually the runners will allow people to scroll their helm with the security of knowing that they can pick another if theirs blows up.

HT Pendants are being sold in Windia, Scania as well, I dont know about the other servers, but I'd assume they would start soon if they haven't already. They are quite expensive though, even though I think Windia has the cheapest prices out of any server: 300 mil for a Pendant, 200 mil for the Egg.

[Idiotversion]

HT Pendants are being sold in Windia, Scania as well, I dont know about the other servers, but I'd assume they would start soon if they haven't already. They are quite expensive though, even though I think Windia has the cheapest prices out of any server: 300 mil for a Pendant, 200 mil for the Egg.


This just brings me back to my original point. Not everyone is out merchanting 24/7 and not everyone buys mesos from meso farmers. Not everyone is rich, especially warriors. You shouldn't have to have 500mil to 1bil mesos and a whole lot of luck (not the stat luk) just to train on some higher level monsters.

The only way to really make mesos is to use the FM, but the only way to effectively use the FM is to buy NX, but not everyone has money so they need to use the MTS, but not everyone has rare items so they need to farm, but farming can take anywhere from one second to one month so your only logical option is to buy some good equips and scrolls, but you don't have any mesos so it just brings you back to the beginning of the loop.

The point is, not everyone has the money for a Zhelm and Pendant, and you shouldn't have to just to train on the higher level monsters. The warrior class is severely broken and it should not require you to be rich in order to succeed.

[Stereo]

I had a free Zhelm since 110 and I'm a white knight. I'm generally expecting to get a Pendant at some point after I max stance (153~160) and maybe have some points in Achilles as well. I don't think waiting until 110 for a ZHelm is unreasonable, it's nice earlier but not necessary.


It doesn't take being rich to succeed, it is required to be accepted by your peers though ._.



I did a little checkup earlier, with a near clean Zhelm (+1 70%) and my crappy dex gear (no accessories, 4 dex earring, 8 dex cape), 35 base dex gives me ~140 accuracy. If I need to hit 160 acc to train in the new area, it won't be impossible. I'll just have to start putting money into it again (I stopped putting serious money to it when I hit 139 acc with pills - I have excess because of my str cape/shoes/overall giving lower acc than my best options there)

[Idiotversion]

I had a free Zhelm since 110 and I'm a white knight. I'm generally expecting to get a Pendant at some point after I max stance (153~160) and maybe have some points in Achilles as well. I don't think waiting until 110 for a ZHelm is unreasonable, it's nice earlier but not necessary.

I suppose it is not necessary at early levels, but the point is it should not be necessary at all. There should not be just one item that all warriors need to even be close to the accuracy needed.

I guess I am just used to games with thousands upon thousands of items (aka World of Warcraft). I just don't like how you absolutely need to get a certain item in order to be successful in the game.

[Nikkey]

Well, as I was reading through some post, Hero pointed out the massive avoid Temple of Time Monsters have. Recalling that Leafre was very much the same, but lower, this raises a startling reality: Is Nexon going to create more and more high avoid monsters, to the point where anything under 100 Base Dex is impossible? This would either kill the class entirely, as the damage drop would kill them at Bosses. Leafre's top was 43 Avoid? ToT's top is 49. That's 180 Ref. Accuracy right there. Imagine 60 avoid, 70... :f4:

Discuss? :D
Not really. Considering I have 144 base acc without a zakum helmet, even, it'll still be "piece of cake" for people to get the accuracy needed.

[Germ]

I think the DEF from the zhelm helps more than anything. Especially WKs since we go to Duals pretty early, and those suckers hurt. ACC was never a real big deal for me, and I have 50 base dex. Just a dex overall and dex shoes pretty much did the trick.

EDIT - Devil's Sunrise - Are you using a maple weapon? That's probably why you have such high ACC.

[Phoenix]

With 55 base dex, wearing a top and Bot, I can get 192 Acc with MW 20. I realize this is far too much, and ideally would love to go dexless by level 156. With would give me 16x acc I believe.

This is with a HT pendant+egg, a +7 zhelm and dex scrolled warrior shoes.

So I can tolerate up to 45-50 avoid. More and I'd have to convert my alreayd non facestomper shoes to accuracy scroleld shoes. Anymore would force me to convert an overall.

So while we can tolerate it now, I don't like to see the avoid norm getting higher and higher....cause that ONLY penalizes warriors. From what I see, these time temple monsters aren't even dealing that much more dmg either...

[Nikkey]

I think the DEF from the zhelm helps more than anything. Especially WKs since we go to Duals pretty early, and those suckers hurt. ACC was never a real big deal for me, and I have 50 base dex. Just a dex overall and dex shoes pretty much did the trick.

EDIT - Devil's Sunrise - Are you using a maple weapon? That's probably why you have such high ACC.

Not really.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4655/dexeqptgz6.png

Though, all these equips are getting kinda old, so I got to upgrade them. I suppose...

[Hero]

Not really.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4655/dexeqptgz6.png

Though, all these equips are getting kinda old, so I got to upgrade them. I suppose...

Obviously you don't need a zhelm with an overall like that and a scrolled pendant :f7: You're just a special case that got a scrolled pendant over a zhelm. In general, zhelms help warriors alot.

[xCenario]

I have 129 acc (normal) as a dexless sader (lvl 9x) and my equips are not worth more than 150m in all. So im guessing that those 51 acc that I will need can be with the new upgrades of my equips, and all. Probably nexon is gonna bring the possibility of scrolling ur pendant +3, which then will be mad easy getting to 180 acc.

[Hero]

I have 129 acc (normal) as a dexless sader (lvl 9x) and my equips are not worth more than 150m in all. So im guessing that those 51 acc that I will need can be with the new upgrades of my equips, and all. Probably nexon is gonna bring the possibility of scrolling ur pendant +3, which then will be mad easy getting to 180 acc.

Yeah... +52 all stats would mean 67,6acc from an average +3'd pendant alone.

[Nikkey]

Obviously you don't need a zhelm with an overall like that and a scrolled pendant :f7: You're just a special case that got a scrolled pendant over a zhelm. In general, zhelms help warriors alot.

What I tried to say was that people have "no problems" going dexless and getting 200 acc. Zhelms help obviously a lot. That's why I still blow them up.

[Hero]

What I tried to say was that people have "no problems" going dexless and getting 200 acc. Zhelms help obviously a lot. That's why I still blow them up.

I was moreso trying to say that not everyone's capable of +5'ing a battleroad with 30%s and getting a scrolled pendant, but, the point still stands.

[Germ]

Oh, you have Godly equips. That's why. xD
Get a zhelm and you'd be set for life on ACC. Especially with an overall like that.

[Darklai]

Warriors rock; the accuracy thing is really no big deal around the times you need it the most. That being said, getting to that point is long, tedious and boring.

[HiiEN]

I believe the definition of "godly" can vary from person to person, where some people may find some items easier to obtain than others. It depends on a person's willingness and ability to spend time and money (opportunity cost, anyone?). For the most part, but not definitely, time and money are linked. As the amount of time you spend in the market goes up, so does your money (for the most part, assuming you learn the market) and the reverse can happen as well. Of course there are multiple variables that can change this, such as income from other sources while shortening your time and increasing your efficiency.

With that said, I believe the number of sources to earn money goes up, so the accessibility of "godly" items will tend to go up. I'm sure everyone can agree that the standard of a "normal" set of equips has gone up substantially. People used to think clean zhelms were impossible to get, now everyone's scrolling them as if they were nothing short of easy to obtain. Overall what I'm trying to say is, given a bit more time, many of the things we find "hard to obtain" will eventually be taken for granted. People might think Horntail Pendants are hard to get now, but people level up, not down, and while it's a long ways down, eventually you'll be seeing squads left and right. Not to mention accessories might be worth a lot now, but given time for that as well and the market value of those will drop.

As an easy example, dexless was thought to be impossible at the early days, only the few with the most money could pull it off. Now almost anyone with a decent income and a zhelm can easily attain dexless stats just by starting new or resetting what you have.

On the subject of having to get over 200 accuracy, it's really not that hard considering the rate of accuracy and dex scrolls and items being released. With regards to affordability, it only needs a bit of time to stabilize in the market. Besides, I don't think we'd be getting the Temple of Time anytime soon anyways. People are just panicking way too early for this kind of stuff.

[xDae]

Yes warriors are a dying class, because every warrior is born with a terminal diease.....tough break :/

[pootato]

Lesson of the day..
Dont make a dexless/ low dex XD

[JezzaRules]

Thats why warriors should use accuracy boosting items (eg. snipa pill and maple pop)...

[MasPan]

True, getting 180, or even 200 accuracy isn't impossible, but to hit something with 70 Avoid, which isn't far away if they continue at this rate, requires 257 accuracy. o__o

Pink Been/Bean has 55 avoid and a lv of 180, meaning warriors need to get together AT LEAST 202 acc at lv 180, with the acc requirement jumping up insanely every 5-10 levels, in order to hit it. Grandpa in Showa will never be a boss that warriors with any kind of reasonable DEX/acc will be able to hit.

-edit-
To Devils Sunrise, it's "easy" when you have a large amount of funding in front of you. For non-merchants (not EVERYONE can merch, or else nobody will profit from it, as somebody has to lose money for another to make money) or low-scale merchs, getting gear anywhere close to yours could take well over a year.

To Cardboardsnail (page 2 or 3 or something)
Chain lightning is about equivalent to Polearm Fury in damage, + having elemental damage and being faster. Try being a Polearm Dark Knight, where your best 1v1 attack will pretty much kill you if you use it with your only way to deal decent damage...

[tougo]

Lesson of the day..
Dont make a dexless/ low dex XD

there are so many ways nowadays to pump up your accuracy that your statement is not entirely true. Only difference is that warriors used to be a semi cheap class..and they are ending up needing insane funding for a good build.

[MasPan]

there are so many ways nowadays to pump up your accuracy that your statement is not entirely true. Only difference is that warriors used to be a semi cheap class..and they are ending up needing insane funding for a good build.

Last part is pretty much true - and even then there is no way to truly compete with the damage that NLs/BMs/MMs can output at bosses or Mages can do while training. Shadowers should be able to sympathize :heart:

[Holypie]

Pink Been/Bean has 55 avoid and a lv of 180, meaning warriors need to get together AT LEAST 202 acc at lv 180, with the acc requirement jumping up insanely every 5-10 levels, in order to hit it. Grandpa in Showa will never be a boss that warriors with any kind of reasonable DEX/acc will be able to hit.

-edit-
To Devils Sunrise, it's "easy" when you have a large amount of funding in front of you. For non-merchants (not EVERYONE can merch, or else nobody will profit from it, as somebody has to lose money for another to make money) or low-scale merchs, getting gear anywhere close to yours could take well over a year.

To Cardboardsnail (page 2 or 3 or something)
Chain lightning is about equivalent to Polearm Fury in damage, + having elemental damage and being faster. Try being a Polearm Dark Knight, where your best 1v1 attack will pretty much kill you if you use it with your only way to deal decent damage...
i'm not a merchant, yet i have 2b. explain that

[Stereo]

i'm not a merchant, yet i have 2b. explain that

Maybe you should explain that, first of all why it's relevant (since you're not a warrior) and second of all how it happened.

I've never heard of someone who had 2 billion through any other means, except some of the people who sold Zakum helmets early on (eg. for 200mil each) and even then most of them never got 2 billion..

[Chompy]

Maybe you should explain that, first of all why it's relevant (since you're not a warrior) and second of all how it happened.

I've never heard of someone who had 2 billion through any other means, except some of the people who sold Zakum helmets early on (eg. for 200mil each) and even then most of them never got 2 billion..

Well..
All those people that horded the White Scrolls and made perfect equips....
They sold them for Max Mesos.
But I assume MOST people with Max Mesos fall into the hacking/buying meso category.
...
Really. 2bil is just SO FRICKING MUCH!

[banditcom]

Because of a few TOP LEVEL monsters having higher avoid? Of course they're going to have higher avoid.... You really think 38 is an end-game avoid for training monsters? They are adding more, so yeah it'll be higher.

Is "dexless" dying? It'll be harder to stay there and still hit everything possible 100%. If HT pendant was upgradeable more than once, it'd still be the same to get to the newer acc targets than the current.

Really, boo-hoo if someone has to resort to adding 20 dex..... sheesh. Try being a different class where you always have to reset points to fit added bonuses and re-add them to go to a new weapon that turns out better. It's back and forth to fit exactly. Whereas warriors it's just moving on down (or staying down) once you hit 119 or 129 base acc (whichever preferred), until you're ready to HT (in which you try to get the extra acc as well as being level 160+, or you just mob and wait till you get a pendant + upgrade for the extra ~28.6 acc from dex+luk).

[ahoboandahal]

Not necesarily hated by nexon, there'll always be a way to improve your accuracy. Plus, nobody's forcing anyone to go dexless. There's ALOT of things that can be scrolled for either ACC or DEX, so that's not really a problem. However, I do realize the community is starting to be more "meh" towards all warriors except DK nowadays (Mainly because they are needed for Horntail.)

I start regretting I went Fighter over spearman more and more. -_-

Really though, by the time ToT will be released (HOPEFULLY) eye accesories will be more common. By then, I reckon most higher leveled warriors will have their pendants&eggs, meaning they're bound to have enough accuracy by then. Considering most warriors have plenty of accuracy right now and are using top/bottom sets, they could always switch back to overalls.
Im sure if the situation at pink been is dire enough, amorian baskets will come into play as will face accesories. The Situation is not dire though as most dexless warriors with 129 acc have not scrolled there zhelm for accuracy, even if 7 70s work thats another 20 accuracy. Face accesories come into play here as well, even a pure 60ed face accesory can be as high as 24 accuracy, that right there is 175 accuracy. Throw a sniper pill, or bless into that equation and a dexless top+bottom warrior can still hit pink bean 100% without an overall. Even then a dexless warrior could switch to an overall if he didnt want to scroll his zhelm or w/e. Even after that, with one upgrade to an ht pendant thats another 28.6 accuracy. As you said, there are plenty of ways to get accuracy for a warrior, it just takes some doing to get all that accuracy and remain dexless.

[Holypie]

Maybe you should explain that, first of all why it's relevant (since you're not a warrior) and second of all how it happened.

I've never heard of someone who had 2 billion through any other means, except some of the people who sold Zakum helmets early on (eg. for 200mil each) and even then most of them never got 2 billion..

rock scrolls are the answer. it doesn't take much to make them, and they sell for quite a bit. they're always in demand, and with 3+characters making them everyday, you get quite a few. plus, i also sell the stuff i find training on my mage

[Luscent]

rock scrolls are the answer. it doesn't take much to make them, and they sell for quite a bit. they're always in demand, and with 3+characters making them everyday, you get quite a few. plus, i also sell the stuff i find training on my mage

You honestly expect us to believe that selling rock scrolls is how you made 2bil meso? Please sir, show us your proof of your epic rock scroll selling, because even with three characters doing it I don't believe it's as easy to attain as you say.

On topic: I don't see why adding some dex is a huge problem if you want to train at new things or at bosses. How is newer monsters with higher avoid killing a class exactly? There are plenty of things coming out that allow you the chance to add the accuracy you need and still keep your dex abysmally low.

[Stereo]

At 15 a day, selling for 100k each would take 4 years ;|

& by not much, you mean 9 jr sentinel shells and 4 each of red/blue per scroll. For the ~15000 you must have sold, that's only about 135,000 jr sentinel shells. I guess you could spend months hunting them ...

[Holypie]

You honestly expect us to believe that selling rock scrolls is how you made 2bil meso? Please sir, show us your proof of your epic rock scroll selling, because even with three characters doing it I don't believe it's as easy to attain as you say.

On topic: I don't see why adding some dex is a huge problem if you want to train at new things or at bosses. How is newer monsters with higher avoid killing a class exactly? There are plenty of things coming out that allow you the chance to add the accuracy you need and still keep your dex abysmally low.
whatever do as you may, i also said that i sold other stuff too, like a perfect omega spear i found while hunting birks

[Volg]

-reading about the whole current KMST endpoint monsters-
Good thing I went high dex!...
Here goes my opinions...

Being a warrior is great and all, but it's annoying when people go "Wut ur dex??!" "Stats on overall?[Well, it's now possible to STR one...]" It's just sad how everyone went from a normal typical player to hardcore damage whores...

Either there are too many statwhores, or that everyone likes the flashy Bowmaster's Hurricane...NL's TT...ETC...Besides..with Onyx Apples..what's to complain about someone's damage[or what's to complain about someone's damage..it's someone else's damage!]

[XtremeBeast]

rock scrolls are the answer. it doesn't take much to make them, and they sell for quite a bit. they're always in demand, and with 3+characters making them everyday, you get quite a few. plus, i also sell the stuff i find training on my mage

Hak made rock scrolls obsolete.

On-topic: By the time anyone is at a lvl where they have to worry about any of these new high lvl monsters that require higher amounts of acc, then they'll see that in the higher lvls getting the required acc isn't really a big problem.

When ht pendants are able to be scrolled more than once, an average maxed pendant adds 67.6 acc. This means that eventually, a dexless warrior with all strength gear, top+bottom set, and even facestompers can easily achieve an accuracy range of 19x+

You have to realize that when you get to a high lvl and your friends are high lvls, and zak is on three channels, then the zhelms start dropping like water. Scrolling a zhelm isn't a faraway dream. Letting zhelms disappear is a reality.

Also, if you are a high lvl player and nice player you will inevitably be in a nice guild. You will have good friends. You will be able to join ht runs. Getting a pendant isn't so hard once you get there. Getting a +1 pendant might take more time of course...but nexon made ht quite generous lately.

*Success brings about more success. But you have to work for it. Gain the lvls, then you'll begin to see and understand how all things fall into place.

I'm dexless, with a scrolled zhelm, a +1 ht pendant, facestompers, a str cape and 157 base acc. Give me an overall, dex shoes, dex cape and even without a maxed ht pendant i can break 200 acc.

Range attackers wear hp gear to fight ht. Warriors wear acc gear to fight the new monsters. What's the big deal? I really don't see a problem with higher avoid monsters being introduced in the game. Besides if all else fails, then at lvl 200, all dexless warriors will be ap maxed on str and therefore have 23 base dex, a free additional 15.2 acc right there.